Question about 9th grade course selection

[jrmasm]

DD is currently in 8th and working on her schedule for next year. I find it odd that school personel keeps discouraging kids from taking more that 1 or 2 honors level classes. They seem more interested in making sure the kids have a social life than challenging them in school.

Is this normal?

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Yes. They have limited spaces. It has nothing to do with your dd's abilities.

 

[jrmasm]

Yes. They have limited spaces. It has nothing to do with your dd's abilities.

That's interesting because space has never been mentionned as an issue.

 

[sunnyday123]

DD is currently in 8th and working on her schedule for next year. I find it odd that school personel keeps discouraging kids from taking more that 1 or 2 honors level classes. They seem more interested in making sure the kids have a social life than challenging them in school.

Is this normal?

They did it in our school....I remember getting the ok from the guidance counselor to take "small animal care" in 9th grade. It's exactly what it sounds like. "How to feed your bunny." I was disappointed because I wanted to be a vet, but I thought my Mom's head would pop off when she saw my schedule.

I think it's more of trying to balance their first year of high school, which is hard for them. Don't want overwhelmed kids looking for an outlet.

 

[NMAmy]

Perhaps instead of encouraging their social lives, they're trying to make sure that the students know how much more work is involved in an honors levels class. It seems to me that starting out with one or two in ninth grade and making sure the student can handle the extra work is better than having them stressed out and unable to handle the coursework from 3 or 4 honors classes their first year of high school. Perhaps it is to acclimate them to the extra work in the beginning so they're not burnt out by 10th grade?

I have no knowledge of this but encouraged my own dd to start out with just two honors classes in her freshman year. High school is a big change on it's own. She's a senior and has all honors level courses this year except for her electives of journalism and yearbook.

 

[loco4dis]

DD is currently in 8th and working on her schedule for next year. I find it odd that school personel keeps discouraging kids from taking more that 1 or 2 honors level classes. They seem more interested in making sure the kids have a social life than challenging them in school.

Is this normal?

As a high school teacher, I can tell you that the problem is probably that too many parents believe their kids should be in advanced courses, but they shouldn't, so the advanced courses are getting academically diluted to accommodate a bunch of kids that just shouldn't be there. At our school, half of the 9th grade English classes were "advanced," when it should probably have been no more than 20 or 25%. At the other end, then, the "regular" courses were disproportionately filled with struggling students, which brings the academic expectations of the entire class down. It's a vicious cycle. If more of the average performing kids were in the regular classes, they would raise the academic expectations of the class and everyone would be the better for it. Moreover, the advanced vs. regular track tends to actually be a socioeconomic/racial track in which well-off white kids enroll in the advanced classes (whether they should be there or not) and the less well-off and minority kids (whose parents tend less to be helicopter parents) end up disproportionately enrolled in the regular classes, and then those classes get labeled as "blow-off" classes. That's why our school has done away with advanced English classes in 9th grade — everyone gets randomly assigned to a class which will operate with ordinary 9th grade standards. And boy oh boy did the well-off parents pitch a fit over that!

However, if you believe your daughter is genuinely advanced academically, enroll her in as many advanced courses as you want to.

 

[amyhughes]

For our Honors classes it required a signature from our 8th Grade teacher of that same subject to be placed in that course. This limited parental placement. I find it odd that kids can place themselves in these courses without a teacher recommendation for the course load. I'm not saying your daughter doesn't deserve to be in the courses, at all. I just find it interesting how other school systems do their schedules.

The course load for Honors or Advanced Placement is higher and I could see how a freshman coming in could get overwhelmed quickly if they took too many in their first semester with all of the other changes High School brings, both socially and academically. We had no restrictions, but were cautioned about weighting our schedules too heavily and becoming overwhelmed. Especially since most of our Honors class was involved in extra curricular activities that took a lot of of after school time like Band, Orchestra, Theatre, Speech, and Concert Choir.

 

[jrmasm]

Admittedly, she is my oldest and things have changed since I went to school back in the dark ages.

I guess it would make more sense to me if they said something along the lines of if you're getting all A's in a particular class then you should be ok in honors. B's - college prep and so on and so on.

 

[jrmasm]

For our Honors classes it required a signature from our 8th Grade teacher of that same subject to be placed in that course. This limited parental placement. I find it odd that kids can place themselves in these courses without a teacher recommendation for the course load. I'm not saying your daughter doesn't deserve to be in the courses, at all. I just find it interesting how other school systems do their schedules.
QUOTE]

They do require a teacher signature for honors level classes.

 

[amyhughes]

They do require a teacher signature for honors level classes.

Oh, ok. Sorry, the way I read your post was that they could place themselves in the course if they felt they could handle the work load. Sorry for the misinterpretation.

 

[disykat]

I think a few honors classes are enough, depending on the class. My 10th grader is taking 1 "honors class" and 2 AP classes. Add marching band/pep band along with his church and community stuff and it is TOO MUCH!

He is figuring out what he can eliminate next year and I think the harder classes should be the first to go. He doesn't want to sit in class bored, but there's really no way to keep up with the homework/project schedule of those classes and keep up with your extracurriculars.

I think teaching kids to keep a balance between work and play is important. In my experience, schools is WAAY more challenging today than it was for me. It saddens me when I see the stress my child is under.

 

[disykat]

As a high school teacher, I can tell you that the problem is probably that too many parents believe their kids should be in advanced courses, but they shouldn't, so the advanced courses are getting academically diluted to accommodate a bunch of kids that just shouldn't be there. At our school, half of the 9th grade English classes were "advanced," when it should probably have been no more than 20 or 25%. At the other end, then, the "regular" courses were disproportionately filled with struggling students, which brings the academic expectations of the entire class down. It's a vicious cycle. If more of the average performing kids were in the regular classes, they would raise the academic expectations of the class and everyone would be the better for it. Moreover, the advanced vs. regular track tends to actually be a socioeconomic/racial track in which well-off white kids enroll in the advanced classes (whether they should be there or not) and the less well-off and minority kids (whose parents tend less to be helicopter parents) end up disproportionately enrolled in the regular classes, and then those classes get labeled as "blow-off" classes. That's why our school has done away with advanced English classes in 9th grade — everyone gets randomly assigned to a class which will operate with ordinary 9th grade standards. And boy oh boy did the well-off parents pitch a fit over that!

However, if you believe your daughter is genuinely advanced academically, enroll her in as many advanced courses as you want to.

I see this happening in our schools. My 8th grader keeps being placed in "honors" classes and he is not a particularly good student. However, the "normal" track seems to be remedial. It bothers me because I think it gives him a false sense of where he stands academically.

My honor student (in 10th grade) absolutely hates being in "normal" classes because they feel like a waste of his time. However, if he takes too many AP classes it gets overwhelming and he gets freaked out when his grade point goes down. (He got a B last report card - freak out )

As for the classes being divided among racial lines, we've talked about that too. Some of my son's best friends are minorities and he said they are struggling to fit in with two groups of kids. I remember when he came home upset because one of his friends had "decided to be dumber."

 

[Cindy B]

I'm in that 9th grade selection business with my son. The school has basically stated that honors is best with a teacher rec. or in the 10th grade.

I know there is a space issue (there are about 2000 students in the school) and other things like that.

Normal classes are becoming "remedial". In his high school, there are three tracks. H is Honors, A for accelerated, and R= Regular. There is one more track but it is for the students with extensive IEP's.

 

[Pin Wizard]

DS took two Honors classes his Freshman year. This year in 10th he also has two. Good thing, too! They have mid-terms this week Weds. through Friday. Then the following week when they return on Weds. for the new marking period, lacrosse kicks into high gear with practices every day through the end of the season! And he needs to show up at Interact club also since he needs an activity that actually helps out in the community. It's a full plate.

 

[clh2]

One thing you may want to consider - and for us this is a strictly anecdotal comment from our dentist...whose daughter is going through the college and scholarship application process. He is of the opinion that "strength of schedule" is far more important than GPA in the college acceptance phase. And, had he known that back when his daughter was in 8th grade, they would have made different course selections.

So - maybe you could talk to the guidance counselors at the high school and pick their brains a little bit. Talk, talk, talk to other people going through the college admissions process.

 

[barkley]

I think a few honors classes are enough, depending on the class. My 10th grader is taking 1 "honors class" and 2 AP classes. Add marching band/pep band along with his church and community stuff and it is TOO MUCH!

He is figuring out what he can eliminate next year and I think the harder classes should be the first to go. He doesn't want to sit in class bored, but there's really no way to keep up with the homework/project schedule of those classes and keep up with your extracurriculars.

I think teaching kids to keep a balance between work and play is important. In my experience, schools is WAAY more challenging today than it was for me. It saddens me when I see the stress my child is under.

i agree-we just met with the high school counselor on friday to see what our incoming freshman dd's high school requirements are and it's so much more than we anticipated.

i am so glad that our schools offer an alternative to a.p. classes. the highschools and the state colleges and universities have figured out which college courses contain the curriculum that meets a given highschool course so the kids as an alternative to taking an a.p. course (which will require them to score at a certain level on the standardized test to get that college credit) can take a college course under normal grading standards and if they successfully complete it they get dual credit for highschool and college. i like this option because from what i've seen a person taking a college course that is receiving the identical credit as a kid receives for their a.p. course often has a much more reasonable work load (seems like the a.p. courses are structured with much more homework and focus on studying to that final test vs the college course the credit is given for). some courses the kids have to arrange transportation to a local college for, but more and more are being offered on-line (some in the traditional on-line manner, some at a specific time with live feeds to the lecture).

 

[Pin Wizard]

DS took two Honors classes his Freshman year. This year in 10th he also has two. Good thing, too! They have mid-terms this week Weds. through Friday. Then the following week when they return on Weds. for the new marking period, lacrosse kicks into high gear with practices every day through the end of the season! And he needs to show up at Interact club also since he needs an activity that actually helps out in the community. It's a full plate.

Correction...He has four Honors classes this year! And I can't imagine adding in any AP classes next year, but we'll give it a shot.

 

[Holly]

One thing you may want to consider - and for us this is a strictly anecdotal comment from our dentist...whose daughter is going through the college and scholarship application process. He is of the opinion that "strength of schedule" is far more important than GPA in the college acceptance phase. And, had he known that back when his daughter was in 8th grade, they would have made different course selections.

So - maybe you could talk to the guidance counselors at the high school and pick their brains a little bit. Talk, talk, talk to other people going through the college admissions process.

That's right.

I was given the same advice from a local college admissions counselor.

My sophomore has AP English and four honors classes- math, Spanish, science, and civics.

Kids need to be grouped according to ability, and if your daughter qualifies academically for honors courses, that's where she should be. Getting into college is very competitive, and being successful in honors or AP courses does give you an edge.

As a high school teacher, I can tell you that the problem is probably that too many parents believe their kids should be in advanced courses, but they shouldn't, so the advanced courses are getting academically diluted to accommodate a bunch of kids that just shouldn't be there. At our school, half of the 9th grade English classes were "advanced," when it should probably have been no more than 20 or 25%. At the other end, then, the "regular" courses were disproportionately filled with struggling students, which brings the academic expectations of the entire class down. It's a vicious cycle. If more of the average performing kids were in the regular classes, they would raise the academic expectations of the class and everyone would be the better for it. Moreover, the advanced vs. regular track tends to actually be a socioeconomic/racial track in which well-off white kids enroll in the advanced classes (whether they should be there or not) and the less well-off and minority kids (whose parents tend less to be helicopter parents) end up disproportionately enrolled in the regular classes, and then those classes get labeled as "blow-off" classes. That's why our school has done away with advanced English classes in 9th grade — everyone gets randomly assigned to a class which will operate with ordinary 9th grade standards. And boy oh boy did the well-off parents pitch a fit over that!

However, if you believe your daughter is genuinely advanced academically, enroll her in as many advanced courses as you want to.

Wow! I'm really shocked to see that. My son had to qualify for honors courses by having a certain grade in that subject previously, taking a placement test, and having teacher recommendations.

 

[BibbidiBobbidiBOO]

DD is currently in 8th and working on her schedule for next year. I find it odd that school personel keeps discouraging kids from taking more that 1 or 2 honors level classes. They seem more interested in making sure the kids have a social life than challenging them in school.

Is this normal?

Not in our HS! They SHOVE AP down our throats, they want to keep their ranking in the Newsweek top 100 schools. They tried to force DS in AP choice in 9th grade based on his scores. I know DS better than they do, so he "settled" on Honors classes in English, Science, and History.

Now DD is in 8th grade and scores very high on FCAT. She was invited to AP choice or IB at another school. I actually think she will "just" do honors, much to the HS horror. AP choice is just 2 honors classes in 9th grade but they have SO much homework, you have no life at all. She has 3 extra-curricular activities now, and she will surely want to do something in HS too. She can then take some AP classes her JR and SR year, when they count. I don't want her to feel like she is in prison starting out in HS.

Of course all of DD's friends are trying to pressure her into AP choice, they have NO idea what they are in for (they don't have older siblings!). Honors will be fine for DD. I would rather she get A's in honors than B's in AP choice with no life.

 

[clh2]

again, my comments are anecdotal.

I would be concerned about AP courses at too early of a level. I believe at my DD's high school, that you cannot take the AP exams for AP courses until they are a Junior. So - anyone who does take an AP course in 9th or 10th grade cannot take the test and get their college credits.