Quandry at Work - What do you think?

[mickeyboat]

I don't think that's how it works though. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the hours worked calculated by keeping track of the time a specific case was worked on?

Yes, but built into those rates is a calculation of overhead and administrative time.

 

[lovepurple]

Just do what my kids try all the time. When I ask them to do something they don't want to do, they just do it very badly hoping I won't ask them to do it again.

 

[barkley]

I don't think that's how it works though. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the hours worked calculated by keeping track of the time a specific case was worked on?

they are, but when a buisness owner decides their hourly fee they generaly take into consideration how much their personal services are worth and then figure in the cost of operations/overhead. 'my' value in doing a service may be $300 per hour, but if it costs me another $100 per hour in maintaining my office (rent/mtg/utilites...), paying my staff costs and other other overhead i will build that into my hourly fee structure and pass the prorated cost along to the clients.

i worked in an industry that made us do time studies to show where our work hours were being 'spent' so they could eliminate or stream line tasks in order to cut costs and stay competative in their market. if we had been found to have been able to do our full work load in addition to doing personal tasks for ourselves or others we likely would have been looking at either increased duties (since we had all that 'extra time' on our hands for the personal stuff) or staff reductions because it was apparant that staffing figures were off in how much actual time it took to accomplish our designated duties (in other words-fire one person, pass the duties onto a second and the savings on to the customers).

 

[Thats_for_Shore]

Can I ask what the nature of your employment is? Do you have a job description? Because it is possible that she's asking you to do things that you are supposed to be doing.

Yes, in Never Land, a law firm would want pay for all their lawyers to have people take care of things for them that are completely unrelated to the law firm.

But here in the real world, I highly doubt the law firm wants to pay for someone to take care of PERSONAL business on COMPANY time.

 

[Carly_Roach]

I had this happen to me in another firm I worked in. What I did was to go to my boss (a parter) and told him that I had too much work to complete in a day. I gave him a list of everything I had to do at the moment, including the associates personal work and asked in what order he would like all this work done. Trust me, he took care of the associate very quickly. I never complained about the work or said I wouldn't do it, just let him decide what was going to be done and in what order.

I'll ditto this, too. The above method is how I handle ALL situations where I've budgeted time to complete jobs and then been given something else to complete in the same time frame. It's worked excellently for me in the past.

The boss is paid to make the priorities. Whatever is most important to him/her is what I do first.

Good luck.

 

[Chicago526]

I had this happen to me in another firm I worked in. What I did was to go to my boss (a parter) and told him that I had too much work to complete in a day. I gave him a list of everything I had to do at the moment, including the associates personal work and asked in what order he would like all this work done. Trust me, he took care of the associate very quickly. I never complained about the work or said I wouldn't do it, just let him decide what was going to be done and in what order.

I like this better, but what I was going to say was to start doing all her personal stuff WRONG. Not hugely wrong, just a lot of little mistakes. Trust me, she'll stop asking you to do it when her water bill is sent to the power company and her car payment is sent to her mortgage company!

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

Yes, but built into those rates is a calculation of overhead and administrative time.

Thanks, Mickeyboat, I didn't know it worked that way.

Yes, in Never Land, a law firm would want pay for all their lawyers to have people take care of things for them that are completely unrelated to the law firm.

But here in the real world, I highly doubt the law firm wants to pay for someone to take care of PERSONAL business on COMPANY time.

Have you ever had a secretary or assistant? I have and do and I can tell you that certain secretaries and assistants are hired to do work strictly related to the business. Others also do some personal tasks. So, believe it or not, there are employers who want to and do pay for someone to take care of personal business on company time. That's why I asked the OP about her job description. Absolutely, talk to you boss if you aren't supposed to be doing this stuff. But I would make doubly sure that none of this was in the description before I said anything.

 

[Thats_for_Shore]

Thanks, Mickeyboat, I didn't know it worked that way.



Have you ever had a secretary or assistant? I have and do and I can tell you that certain secretaries and assistants are hired to do work strictly related to the business. Others also do some personal tasks. So, believe it or not, there are employers who want to and do pay for someone to take care of personal business on company time. That's why I asked the OP about her job description. Absolutely, talk to you boss if you aren't supposed to be doing this stuff. But I would make doubly sure that none of this was in the description before I said anything.

I own my own business. So, believe it or not, I know what employers want out of their employees, but thanks oh-so-much for trying to point it out to me.

 

[Carly_Roach]

Have you ever had a secretary or assistant? I have and do and I can tell you that certain secretaries and assistants are hired to do work strictly related to the business. Others also do some personal tasks. So, believe it or not, there are employers who want to and do pay for someone to take care of personal business on company time. That's why I asked the OP about her job description. Absolutely, talk to you boss if you aren't supposed to be doing this stuff. But I would make doubly sure that none of this was in the description before I said anything.

Darcy's solution is still the best. Whether it's personal business or professional business, the OP's problem can be solved by asking the boss what his priorities are. If he has an eight hour project that needs to be done today, then he can choose whether three of those hours will be sapped away by having his assistant do his friend's bills, personal newsletters and picking up her dry cleaning.

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

Darcy's solution is still the best. Whether it's personal business or professional business, the OP's problem can be solved by asking the boss what his priorities are. If he has an eight hour project that needs to be done today, then he can choose whether three of those hours will be sapped away by having his assistant do his friend's bills, personal newsletters and picking up her dry cleaning.

I agree. That's what I meant - find out what is actually required and expected of you by your boss. That's what I meant by finding out your "job description". It's entirely possible that this extra, personal work is acceptable at this firm.

 

[Honu]

It's really at the discretion of the partners/firm. I managed offices for large firms for the last 20 years. Some firms mandated no personal work. Other firms felt any time the attorney cannot spend doing billable work is squandered money, so we did pretty much anything that was asked. Breakfast, lunch & dinner served onsite, coffee bar and barissta onsite, dry cleaning and car wash mobile services, taxes and banking, childcare, onsite fitness center, trainers and masseuse, mobile dentist, you name it. The goal was to keep them in the building.

I'd find a way to mention it to the partner, just to CYA.

 

[Biscuitsmom31]

I didn't realize this would be so controversial.

My job description is to basically do anything my boss tells me. I do many of her personal errands, etc. She owns the place and I have no problem with that.

The thing that I haven't seen anyone mention is that my time is billable. My boss wants me to bill as much time as possible every day and I am loosing billable hours when I'm doing this associate's personal business.

Also, this associate is actually "of counsel". She doesn't work here full time, yet even when she's not here she calls and has me do personal errands for her.

I think my boss is too nice and won't confront her about it but I also don't think she has any clue the extent of the problem. She's been out of the office in a meeting all afternoon, so I will have to take her my "to do" list tomorrow and see what she says.

 

[golfgal]

Thanks, Mickeyboat, I didn't know it worked that way.



Have you ever had a secretary or assistant? I have and do and I can tell you that certain secretaries and assistants are hired to do work strictly related to the business. Others also do some personal tasks. So, believe it or not, there are employers who want to and do pay for someone to take care of personal business on company time. That's why I asked the OP about her job description. Absolutely, talk to you boss if you aren't supposed to be doing this stuff. But I would make doubly sure that none of this was in the description before I said anything.

There is also a big difference between a Paralegal and a Secretary too.

 

[phorsenuf]

I didn't realize this would be so controversial.

My job description is to basically do anything my boss tells me. I do many of her personal errands, etc. She owns the place and I have no problem with that.

The thing that I haven't seen anyone mention is that my time is billable. My boss wants me to bill as much time as possible every day and I am loosing billable hours when I'm doing this associate's personal business.

Also, this associate is actually "of counsel". She doesn't work here full time, yet even when she's not here she calls and has me do personal errands for her.

I think my boss is too nice and won't confront her about it but I also don't think she has any clue the extent of the problem. She's been out of the office in a meeting all afternoon, so I will have to take her my "to do" list tomorrow and see what she says.

I would imagine you have to turn your time sheet with the billable hours to your boss for approval, right? If not then I suppose it would go to payroll. Create a billing account number for the associate and bill your time to that. When they question what account that is, tell them its the associates personal business you took care of for her and since everything needs to be billed you created an account for her. Maybe once they see how much time it is taking up and losing real billable hours they will put a stop to it.

 

[golfgal]

I would imagine you have to turn your time sheet with the billable hours to your boss for approval, right? If not then I suppose it would go to payroll. Create a billing account number for the associate and bill your time to that. When they question what account that is, tell them its the associates personal business you took care of for her and since everything needs to be billed you created an account for her. Maybe once they see how much time it is taking up and losing real billable hours they will put a stop to it.

This is another good idea. It gives a recording of what you are doing so if you are ever questioned WHY you aren't producing more billable hours you have this, along with the photocopied material of everything you have done to back it up too.

 

[Disney Doll]

Whatever you do, CYA.

I like the idea of photocopying everything personal you do for the other person, so you have a record. I also like the idea of actually keeping an account of the time spent on your "billable hours" for her. I also like the idea of going to the boss and having him/her prioritize what you should be doing, and including in your list of duties the personal items the other person asks you to do.

Frankly, the bottom line is that if your boss indicates that it is OK for you to do the personal stuff, then so be it. But at least your boss will be aware of what a portion of your time is being spent on, so there will be no question later of "why were you not able to complete this "business" task?" Your answer will be "because I spent 6 hours of my week on the personal items for X which you are aware that I do".

 

[barkley]

I would imagine you have to turn your time sheet with the billable hours to your boss for approval, right? If not then I suppose it would go to payroll. Create a billing account number for the associate and bill your time to that. When they question what account that is, tell them its the associates personal business you took care of for her and since everything needs to be billed you created an account for her. Maybe once they see how much time it is taking up and losing real billable hours they will put a stop to it.

do you have a 'non allocable' indicator on your billable's accounting? if so i would just put all the stuff the person requests under this designation and see if it raises any red flags. in that way you've been honest in accounting that the time does not apply to any office designator but you've not 'named names'.

generaly speaking most buisnesses that do billable hours/accounting for or time studies of have a minor tolerance level of minutes within the day that can be attributed to nothing specific. if the amount of time you are spending is above that tolerance level you WILL be questioned about it at which time you can be honestly forthcoming.

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

My job description is to basically do anything my boss tells me. I do many of her personal errands, etc. She owns the place and I have no problem with that.

{snip}

I think my boss is too nice and won't confront her about it but I also don't think she has any clue the extent of the problem. She's been out of the office in a meeting all afternoon, so I will have to take her my "to do" list tomorrow and see what she says.

I think that the direct route is always best and the most professional course of action. Personally, I think that photocopying all of the paperwork you do for her or creating a billing account for her time will only create problems and would seem very weird to me if I were your boss. I wouldn't try to "prove a point" like others are suggesting. Instead, I would just ask your boss direct questions and get a clear understanding of your role there. Good luck!

There is also a big difference between a Paralegal and a Secretary too.

Ok. I was not sure what that difference was. That's why I was asking the OP. It still seems though, that as a paralegal, she is expected to do a certain amount of personal stuff for the associate.

 

[golfgal]

Ok. I was not sure what that difference was. That's why I was asking the OP. It still seems though, that as a paralegal, she is expected to do a certain amount of personal stuff for the associate.

That is the whole problem if you read her first post, she doesn't work for the associate yet the associate is asking her to do all this work yet the associate is a long time friend of her BOSS.

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

That is the whole problem if you read her first post, she doesn't work for the associate yet the associate is asking her to do all this work yet the associate is a long time friend of her BOSS.

That's not my understanding after reading the followup posts from the OP, especially the most recent post. She said that her boss expects that she will be doing some personal work for the associate but she doesn't know how much her boss would find acceptable.