PVB Points Chart !

[skier_pete]

You need to own at Vero to stay in one of the cottages for sure. Maybe it's a whole other discussion too, but curious if the Vero cottages (compared to Vero's studios) have the same crazy difference as the Poly Studios and bungalows. Of course the cottages are not in demand all year too (I think) but again not comparing Poly with Vero but Poly studios/Bungalows and Vero Studios/Cottages.

While I'm sure that Vero cottages aren't in the same ballpark, there also not the same vacation.

To me, if I go on a beach vacation, it's all about where I'm staying. I'm spending lots of time in the room and at the resort.

Disney is different. I spend little time in the room, it's why I could never justify deluxe prices.

That's why it seems double crazy to me. To spend that amount of money on a bungalow, and then spend your days in the theme parks. Do people go to Disney just to hang out in their room?

 

[WelcomeHome]

This is a thread about the new points chart at PVB.

That said, I believe that a one night stay in a "uniquely exclusive experience" like a Poly Bungalow is a perfectly fair and identical trade to a fabulous three night experience in either a charming Treehouse Villa or a relaxing 2-bedroom Villa at Saratoga Springs.

Both events are pure DVC and I believe both events are equally wonderful!

Best wishes,
Dave

P.S. - But I must admit I'm getting a big kick out of some of the silly comparisons we make when it comes to our beloved DVC. I know each and every one of us is extremely grateful and lucky to have each and every one of our amazing DVC points - wherever our noble home resort may be!

 

[KingRichard]

Ok some quick math on these crazy prices!

So it would take 1174 points to stay in the so called 2 bedroom for a week during school vacations.

That means $187,840.00 up front!

$7,067.48 every year just to stay on dues!

Sorry Disney I think I could buy a nice house nearby for those numbers and go more then one week a year!

 

[gmi3804]

Ok some quick math on these crazy prices!

So it would take 1174 points to stay in the so called 2 bedroom for a week during school vacations.

That means $187,840.00 up front!

$7,067.48 every year just to stay on dues!

Sorry Disney I think I could buy a nice house nearby for those numbers and go more then one week a year!

Something tells me that someone who'd pay $187,840 plus annual MFs wouldn't be able to find a "nice" house nearby for the same amount of money.

 

[skier_pete]

Ok some quick math on these crazy prices!

So it would take 1174 points to stay in the so called 2 bedroom for a week during school vacations.

That means $187,840.00 up front!

$7,067.48 every year just to stay on dues!

Sorry Disney I think I could buy a nice house nearby for those numbers and go more then one week a year!

I did this same math. $187,000 for access to that 2-bedroom bungalow one week a year. Who would do that? I mean, I can't afford it, but even if I COULD afford it, I would buy a flippin' house at Golden Oak first.

Someone WILL do it though. But they need about 1040 someones (20 bungalows, 52 weeks a year), and that seems hard to believe.

 

[beer dave]

I did this same math. $187,000 for access to that 2-bedroom bungalow one week a year. Who would do that? I mean, I can't afford it, but even if I COULD afford it, I would buy a flippin' house at Golden Oak first.

Someone WILL do it though. But they need about 1040 someones (20 bungalows, 52 weeks a year), and that seems hard to believe.

yup. Aint gonna happen.

 

[mkunichi]

I did this same math. $187,000 for access to that 2-bedroom bungalow one week a year. Who would do that? I mean, I can't afford it, but even if I COULD afford it, I would buy a flippin' house at Golden Oak first.

$60,000 if you only go once every three years. $30,000 if you do a half-week on a split stay every three years.

I could see a lot of folks buying in at $30k-$60k.

Someone WILL do it though. But they need about 1040 someones (20 bungalows, 52 weeks a year), and that seems hard to believe.

Only 300 someones for that part of the point chart. A bit less for the rest of it.

 

[rfc0001]

The rationale for Bungalows is simple -- with nearly 5000 DVC rooms in WDW every night, there are only 20 bungalows -- it's basic supply and demand. Disney/DVC is easily going to be able to find 20 people every night who at least want to stay there a night -- e.g. newlyweds on their honeymoon night, anniversary weekend, etc. It's not going to be an every day/every year/whole week accommodation, but there are only 20 of them, so they don't need to be. They are very much a niche product. Nothing to see here. Move along.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The rationale for Bungalows is simple -- with nearly 5000 DVC rooms in WDW every night, there are only 20 bungalows -- it's basic supply and demand. Disney/DVC is easily going to be able to find 20 people every night who at least want to stay there a night -- e.g. newlyweds on their honeymoon night, anniversary weekend, etc. It's not going to be an every day/every year/whole week accommodation, but there are only 20 of them, so they don't need to be. They are very much a niche product. Nothing to see here. Move along.

The real reality is that the poly points will be sold in 200 or 300 point chunks...and they will overload the demand for their studios and those around the lagoon due to the big block of "bungalow" points being factioned off...this will drive more development/retrofit in the four now existing dvcs within arms reach of the "precious" (the fiber stucco castle)... Which is a win/win for Disney.

It doesn't matter if the bungalows are filled or not...though they will be booked as a novelty more likely than not.

The question is...is this strategy fair by the members? Does it help Disney "force" people into some of the "not well thought out" additions such as aulani, Saratoga, and kidani? Not that's there's anything wrong with those spots...but it seems they have over/under shot demand and appeal.

A room is not a room when your talking DVC...because the points sold out of where ever they stick the point chart gets fanned out over the system. When they had "low" point charts...like OKW and boardwalk...it was a great program...now that they are building limited size additions/ renovations with higher nightly point costs... It's much more of a one sided program.

The fear is escalation...as is with all things in Disney under Iger relative to costs at the parks.

 

[skier_pete]

The rationale for Bungalows is simple -- with nearly 5000 DVC rooms in WDW every night, there are only 20 bungalows -- it's basic supply and demand. Disney/DVC is easily going to be able to find 20 people every night who at least want to stay there a night

The real reality is that the poly points will be sold in 200 or 300 point chunks...and they will overload the demand for their studios and those around the lagoon due to the big block of "bungalow" points being factioned off...this will drive more development/retrofit in the four now existing dvcs within arms reach of the "precious" (the fiber stucco castle)... Which is a win/win for Disney.

I was thinking about this - if you consider on average the Bungalows rent for about 6.5 x the points of that of a studio, and there are 320 studios, that means 29 % of the points for the resort are allocated for Bungalow stays. Will 29% of the buyers be staying in bungalows? I doubt it very much.

In other words, its likely the studios will be oversold to PVB buyers, and the bungalows will be undersold. However, as rfc00001 points out, across the whole of DVC ownership, they probably won't have a problem booking the 20 bungalows.

What I suspect we will see happen is as with any new DVC, the studios will be much in demand for the first few years, whereas the bungalows will be usually available at 7 months.

However, because it is so skewed to studios, I think you will see after the novelty wears off, like with most DVCs the owners will eventually branch out. I predict 5 years from now it'll be easier to get a studio at the Poly than to get one at VGF, whose small size will likely keeps its demand very high. I also predict Poly resale will go lower than VGF resale within 5 years.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

We're joking here...
If they redo wilderness or say...beach club...how
Do they sell assigning higher point values than what's already there? What modifications do they make to the units?

This is something that I wondered about and tried to discuss in an earlier thread when the VWL conversion news first broke.

If hotel rooms at WL are converted to DVC studios, then I would expect fixtures and furnishings on par with BLT, PVB and VGF. Also, I would want the option to book a new lodge studio over an original annex studio.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

Here's something to mull over. Once the demand for Poly stiduos is confirmed, is it unthinkable to imagine a DVC model for the Mods and the Values? After all, now that the the points requirements are skyrocketing, DVC will then be able to sell smaller accommodations with smaller sales contracts. Then MF will bankroll the maintenance of portions of those resorts too.

There's a reason Mickey so always smiling. I foresee his not being able to muster up a look of fear ever again, even during Fantasmic!

Are you suggesting that Disney's Caribbean Beach Villas, a 7-story studio tower along Buena Vista Drive, will be the next announcement?

I wonder if CBR's shores could support 20 island-inspired bungalows.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

This is something that I wondered about and tried to discuss in an earlier thread when the VWL conversion news first broke.

If hotel rooms at WL are converted to DVC studios, then I would expect fixtures and furnishings on par with BLT, PVB and VGF. Also, I would want the option to book a new lodge studio over an original annex studio.

Right...
It would have to be a new category.

Which wouldn't be that hard if they hadnt bothered to rename everything to "deluxe studio" about 6 years ago - that still is stupid.

Maybe they call the railroad building "standard" and the newer rooms "preferred"...

That has sold snake oil at Caribbean beach for about 10 years now...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Are you suggesting that Disney's Caribbean Beach Villas, a 7-story studio tower along Buena Vista Drive, will be the next announcement?

I wonder if CBR's shores could support 20 island-inspired bungalows.

No "moderate" or value dvcs...not the message they want to send

 

[tjkraz]

Personally I'm inclined to give DVC the benefit of the doubt on Bungalow point rates.

DVC has full access to occupancy data for comparably-priced Grand Villas at resorts like VGF and BLT. They know the rate at which those rooms fill-up and the average number of guests staying in those rooms.

Personally I doubt that people are booking Grand Villas solely because they need to house more than 8 people. Heck, you could get 2 Two Bedroom villas for fewer points and have better accommodations (four bedrooms, 4-6 bathrooms, two living rooms, two kitchens, two washer/dryers, etc.)

I don't really understand what motivates people to spend so many points on existing Grand Villas so it wouldn't be fair for me to comment on the Bungalows. Both are way outside of my tax bracket.

Worst case, a reallocation that raised each Studio 1 pt per night would allow them to make a dent in the bungalow rates. And the Studios would still be reasonable, IMO (I was expecting rates higher than VGF in the first place.) That's definitely something I'd take into account if buying Poly points--include some buffer to guard against a future increase in Studio costs.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

No "moderate" or value dvcs...not the message they want to send

There was a interesting article awhile back, which, of course, I cannot find in the moment. Disney loyalists know CBR to be the largest and oldest moderate resort. Supposedly, the 7-story tower, offering views of Illuminations, would bring a Dixie Landings style makeover.

Restaurant and shop names would be changed, "histories" retold and the resort would be renamed.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

There was a interesting article awhile back, which, of course, I cannot find in the moment. Disney loyalists know CBR to be the largest and oldest moderate resort. Supposedly, the 7-story tower, offering views of Illuminations, would bring a Dixie Landings style makeover.

Restaurant and shop names would be changed, "histories" retold and the resort would be renamed.

I am "well" familiar with Caribbean...history of occupancy rates... Gross revenue data...employee and operational structure...

Blah blah blah.

But the thing to look at is that Caribbean can't be sold as a "deluxe" and DVC has zero interest in a "lower" tier price and point structure.

Never, never, never.

It's not about "increasing the net" to be more inclusive. That's the rack rate business... Not DVC.

People mistakenly think DVC is about the up front, the dues, etc.

Only the slightest bit...it's about the wallets carried by those in the villas. It's about the bar and the gift shop. And it's on another level than the original Disney parks model.

Don't you think it's ironic that during the last 10 Years of DVC explosion that the park tickets and restaurant prices have doubled?

Hmmm... Why could that be? Could it be that they still are below the "name your own price" threshold with the average DVC member?
Even though they have eliminated a large portion of the lower out of pocket spending crowd in the process?

Would that mean more DVC conversion to sustain the "new" business plan?

Yep...it's all part of a big puzzle... But if you can identify the "keystones" to they puzzle... You can figure it out without going to Wharton and working for Goldman Sachs with a golden parachute paid by credit default swaps.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

But the thing to look at is that Caribbean can't be sold as a "deluxe" and DVC has zero interest in a "lower" tier price and point structure.

From what I read, it seemed as though the idea was to turn CBR into an OKW/SSR style deluxe resort, complete with expanded dining, shopping and resort amenities (e.g., fitness center).

 

[tfc3rid]

Poly and GF Villas are pure money grabs after the mess that was the Aulani rollout. GF sells but is too small, not as small as VGC but small.

Now, DVC is asking members old and new to pay a premium for an 11 month booking window for studios only...

I'm thrilled I bought my major contract at BWV in 200 for $62 a point and got access to an 11 month window to book Studios, 1BRs, 2BRs and GVs...

Poly for a new member is a waste, especially when I would think most members want 1 bedrooms, despite what DVC says

 

[lockedoutlogic]

From what I read, it seemed as though the idea was to turn CBR into an OKW/SSR style deluxe resort, complete with expanded dining, shopping and resort amenities (e.g., fitness center).

Caribbean is their highest annual occupancy hotel...has been since October 1988.

If they were to convert... That would be a tough choice.

First, it's prime to lease to holiday inn or an outside operator. Disney hotels make no money. They are killed by overhead. They are they To fill the parks, downtown Disney, and their own giftshops.

That's what Disney wants. The operation is - I believe - destined for outsourcing.

Flamingo crossing...was a step in that plan. Draw in big chains such as Marriott to familiarize them with on property operations and doctrine... Then cut them a "deal" to run "Disney resorts"

So making Caribbean a "DVC" would eliminate a future good bargaining chip.

Second, DVC are all longtime Disney watchers, travelers...I think the research would Indicate that a "deluxe" conversion of cbr wouldn't sell...as in they won't be able to pump it based on history.

Which means it would have to be lower point cost, rental structure...which would bring me back to square one.