Push Chair?

[mykidsintow]

I am shopping for a push chair for my DD.

DD is 5. She has a power chair (Permobil Robo). Of course this is wonderful, but I am needing something for when its raining, etc. She has used strollers to this point and technically she still fits in a stroller. However, socially she is rejecting it and I don't blame her.

She is 26 pounds... think 2 yr old. She wears 2T clothes.

Our wheelchair rep said shop around and decide what we want and our PT/OT will write it up and we will order it. She is due a push chair of some kind since obviously we can't take her power chair all the time.

I have looked at the different umbrella types. They seem ok, but I think she needs more support. She is very independent and she can walk/run, use a walker... but when she is tired she just collapses and it doesn't help her scoliosis at all. She needs more support than just a plain old umbrella type.

I am looking forward to any suggestions! I mean where else would one go for pushchair help than a Disney board!

Thanks!

 

[teachallday]

Talk with your Daughters OT/PT to find out what they recommend.

On the web, do a search for "Special Needs Stroller". But I will warn you, if your daugher is rejecting her "baby" stroller, you will need to sell a new stroller to her.

Something to keep in mind, and why you want to involve your daughers Physcial Therapist, is that you need to find out what type of support she will need in the stroller, for that may be what severly limits your choices with the strollers. Convaid and Special Tomato are the current leaders in providing special needs strollers with various support. (up until today I would have included Maclaren in that list, but after a search today I have found the Maclaren special needs stroller does not appear to be available anymore).

I go back to my original recommendation however, start with your daughters Physcial Therapist.

 

[mykidsintow]

Thanks!

we are going in next Wed to meet with Pt/Ot/Vendor. I want an idea of what chair I want before i go. Of course I will listen to them, but I want an idea.

right now I am considering the tiger. Not sure.... I posted on our AMC forums to see what the other kids have. I want to research and have a good idea of any chairs they throw out next week! I am not one to blindly walk into appts. I usually go in with a laundry list..... Her poor Ortho is a very patient man. He just asks for my list these days!!!

 

[teachallday]

Check out this site at Adaptivechild.com

http://www.adaptivechild.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=79

they have quite a collection for you to explore.

 

[SueM in MN]

I would not assume that the Maclaren Special Needs stroller is no longer being made. From what I can see, they are having some supply problems right now and are back ordered unitl April. They have made special needs strollers that I know of for more than 35 years, so I doubt that they would stop making them entirely. Since most of the websites I've seen say they are back ordered until April, I would assume a supply or change over of model.

That said, the Maclaren Special Needs strollers are not really that supportive and are meant for someone who does not have a lot of need for support.

I would suggest AdaptiveMall as a good place to look to get an idea of what is out there. They have pretty good descriptions of what type of support each one has or what they would not be suitable for. I found the Tiger that I think you are talking about there.

Since your DD is 5 (even though small), I'd suggest looking at pediatric wheelchairs rather than special needs strollers. Most people would treat a 5 yr old the size of a 2 yr old in a stroller the way they would treat a 2 yr old.
A wheelchair is much more age appropriate for a 5 year old and she may be able to self propel a little. Even if she can't go any distance in it, it still gives her the ability to possibly turn herself a bit to face a different way, etc.
A pediatric wheelchair may not be that much difference in price than a special needs stroller if you need all sorts of adaptations and supports.

The only pediatric wheelchair that Adaptivemall has is the Convaid, but there are many other brands out there.
The main manual wheelchair 'players' in the US are Sunrise Medical (Quickie wheelchairs) and Invacare. One company that is becoming popular for their well designed and beautiful wheelchairs is Colours.They are not that common in the US yet, but I have seen them and they are very nice. Sunrise, Invacare and Colours make what are called Rehab Chairs, which means they have more adjustable seating, possibility of getting tilt in space, etc than a basic sling seat wheelchair. You may be able to work with your supplier and PT/OT to use a similar seating system to what she has in her power chair if that one works well for her.

 

[mykidsintow]

Actually i wanted to get her a wheelchair. I was told that isn't possible.

If we justify her having a wheelchair then it would imply she can self propel and insurance would no longer cover her robos maintenance or her her next power chair.

They said its very fine line and we would have to be careful about what we order. I say justify it by saying "She needs something for the rain so you don't have to replace her very expensive chair as quickly" LOL

We will see what they suggest...

Thanks

 

[SueM in MN]

Actually i wanted to get her a wheelchair. I was told that isn't possible.

If we justify her having a wheelchair then it would imply she can self propel and insurance would no longer cover her robos maintenance or her her next power chair.

They said its very fine line and we would have to be careful about what we order. I say justify it by saying "She needs something for the rain so you don't have to replace her very expensive chair as quickly" LOL

We will see what they suggest...

Thanks

I apologize in advance because this is kind of rambling - I didn't get much sleep the last 2 nights because my DD had seizures both nights.
And, DH keeps reading things to me and disrupting my train of thought.
Here goes anyway.........

They need to be able to word it in a way that both are justified.
Having a manual wheelchair doesn't necessarily justify not having a power wheelchair. Many people have both because they are used for different purposes/needs.
My DD has both and the PT and OT were able to justify both without a problem. She can propel her manual wheelchair, but not distances of more than 30 feet at a time (and very slow, so it would take forever to get anywhere). She uses her manual wheelchair for inside the house and her power wheelchair for outside. With the power wheelchair, she can be independent outside of the house. We still need the manual chair because there are times when the power chair can't be used. Since she can't walk, she needs something if there is a problem with the power chair.
They had no problem getting both chairs approved because both were necessary.

In your case, they might have to be a bit better at justifying both since you wrote that your DD can walk and even run. But, they were able to justify a power wheelchair, so that should not be that much of a problem.

If they can justify a need for a pushchair, they could also justify a manual wheelchair. Whatever reasons they are using to get the pushchair are reasons that she needs some mobility device in addition to having the power wheelchair. Those reasons would not be any different for a pushchair as opposed to a manual wheelchair.

When they first evaluated her for a wheelchair, they had to have some reasons/justifications why she needed a power wheelchair as opposed to a manual wheelchair. If she had been able to effectively propel a manual wheelchair, she would have not been approved for a power one in the first place. They would have approved a manual chair only.
They would need to re-interate that same justification to prove why she can't effectively propel a manual wheelchair. You don't have to be able to prove she can't even move one - you do have to be able to prove that she can't use one effectively for complete mobility and needs both a power and a manual wheelchair. I would imagine that her scoliosis would make self-propelling her wheelchair difficult for more than short distances. That's the sort of thing the OT and PT will need to write up in the justification.

They may be looking at a pushchair as being less expensive than a pediatric wheelchair, but if you look at the prices for pushchairs in the links in the other posts, they are not inexpensive. And, if you start needing to add any special seating or supports, they come closer to the price of a pediatric wheelchair.
Actually, the Tiger stroller you mentioned has a listed price of between $2,559.95 and $3,035.00
In comparison, a Quickie Zippie pediatric wheelchair (by Sunrise Medical) has a listed price of between $1,780.00 and $2,530.00. That doesn't include a seating system, but there are others like the TiLite that are similar price and come with standard seating. I don't know if she would need specialized seating with her scoliosis or not.
There are also much less know wheelchairs that are much less expensive, like this Excel Kidz wheelchair. or many of the other ones on this site.

Good luck in your quest and in getting what is the right choice for your child.

 

[SueM in MN]

However, socially she is rejecting it and I don't blame her.

That also becomes part of your justification for why a manual wheelchair is a better choice for her. These are some important considerations that I think should be included in the request:

1. her personal preference.
2. social - she is a 5 yr old in a body that looks like a 2 yr old. People treat a 2 year old much differently than a 5 yr old. In a pushchair, she would more likely be treated as a 2 yr old because that is what she looks like.
3. a wheelchair would be a more age appropriate option for a 5 yr old
4. she is rejecting her stroller for social reasons

My guess is that the people advising you usually don't get any 'push-back' from clients. They recommend a push chair and people just tell them to go ahead and get one. If anyone would like a wheelchair instead, they just give the same thing that you were told (a manual wheelchair implies the person doesn't need a power one).

When my DD outgrew her stroller, a pushchair was recommended for her. I had strong feelings against a pushchair (mostly the reasons listed above, plus that she would be able to have at least a little independence with a wheelchair). The OT and PT were kind of surprised since they had never had anyone articulate those things before - most just got a pushchair. We went ahead with the request and she got a manual wheelchair ordered at not quite 3 years.

 

[mykidsintow]

My daughter could propel a push chair around the house... maybe a bit. She has a power chair because of her condition. She can walk and even run, but short distances. Her knees are contracted to 90 degrees so as you can imagine she is crouched and tires easily. Also because of this she can't just sit on the floor to rest. She has to lay or have something to sit on.

She can't propel a distance because her arms are also contracted. So while she is very very independent, she still has a lot to overcome. I just want her to be able to go wherever we go, even when her power chair isn't an option. I am told a lot 'oh we can help you lift her chair up the step"... well, no you can't! Its _300 lbs_!!!

Thanks for your help! I am really hoping they can justify her a good chair wheelchair and not just a push chair!

Question tho... how are the to push? Because... say its pouring rain and we go to the mall or wherever with our homeschool group. Would it be as easy for me to push a manual chair, vs a push (stroller type) chair?

Thanks again Sue!!!

 

[mechurchlady]

For me a manual chair is heavier and the push chairs are designed like baby joggers in that they are ergonomicly more efficient and lighter weight that wheelchairs. I would go with a push chair with a canopy instead of a manual chair since the child would not be able to push her. The pushchair is designed for adults pushing the chair in contrast to a wheelchair.

 

[WheeledTraveler]

I wasn't in a wheelchair as a child, but, actually most of the pediatric manual wheelchairs I've seen have been made to be easy for someone else to push. Even if a kid can self-propel, most kids do get tired and kids with disabilities even more so.

I'm an adult manual wheelchair user with limited upper body strength and I know that most of my friends and family find my wheelchair generally easy to push. I'm normal adult height/weight so I'm not particularly light, but I do have a lightweight wheelchair. There are certainly things that can be looked for or added that make wheelchairs easier to push, but I honestly don't see why a pediatric manual wheelchair should be much (if any) harder for an adult to push than most strollers. The biggest things in my experience are things like getting a small enough/light enough wheelchair and getting front casters which won't get caught on the sort of terrain you need it to go over.

It sounds like a wheelchair is really what you and your daughter want anyway (I have to admit it's what I think sounds best as well). I think Sue has some good advice for justifying one.

Good luck!

 

[SueM in MN]

My daughter could propel a push chair around the house... maybe a bit. She has a power chair because of her condition. She can walk and even run, but short distances. Her knees are contracted to 90 degrees so as you can imagine she is crouched and tires easily. Also because of this she can't just sit on the floor to rest. She has to lay or have something to sit on.

She can't propel a distance because her arms are also contracted. So while she is very very independent, she still has a lot to overcome. I just want her to be able to go wherever we go, even when her power chair isn't an option. I am told a lot 'oh we can help you lift her chair up the step"... well, no you can't! Its _300 lbs_!!!

Thanks for your help! I am really hoping they can justify her a good chair wheelchair and not just a push chair!

Question tho... how are the to push? Because... say its pouring rain and we go to the mall or wherever with our homeschool group. Would it be as easy for me to push a manual chair, vs a push (stroller type) chair?

Thanks again Sue!!!

The thing I was thinking was that requesting a manual wheelchair only implies she doesn't need a power wheelchair if the people writing the request don't address why she needs both.
They probably should include a statement that says, "She will still need a power wheelchair because.......(and list the reasons)."
They should also probably address why a manual wheelchair is being chosen over a special needs stroller. "A special needs stroller was considered, but is not recommended because.......(and list the reasons that a special needs stroller is not the best and a wheelchair is preferred)."

There is a big difference between pushing one of the sling seat type wheelchairs that they rent in places like WDW and a lightweight custom and/or Rehab wheelchair. The ones like you rent at WDW and might see in stores are meant for someone to push them. They are very heavy duty and just, well, heavy. (People in the medical field often call them 'Tanks' because they are heavy and built to be tough). Those generally weigh between 35 and 50 pounds, empty and are made of chrome covered or painted steel.

The type your DD would be likely to get roll easily because they are meant for someone who is disabled to be able to propel them without assistance if at all possible. Some people who use wheelchairs have very good upper body strength (like people with paraplegia or spina bifida), but many are like my DD and do not have a lot of upper body strength. The wheelchairs have to be easy to roll for people with both types of disability. Most of the pieces are made of lightweight airplane aluminum for strength without weight.
My DD's first manual wheelchair was light enough that her 6yr old sister was able to push it (and even run with it). I can push her current wheelchair with her in it with one hand (although I don't recommend it because the wheelchair won't go straight that way).
The large tires on a wheelchair also make the wheelchair go farther on one push.

Anything you can do to make the chair lighter will help. For example, tires with metal spokes like this one

may be heavier than those with plastic spokes like this

But, all the extra pieces on the front of the 2nd chair (I think they are swing away footrests) also add weight. The 2nd chair also has heavier armrests.

You can also order stroller type push handles on wheelchairs like this picture shows. We've never had those, but I have been told they make it easier to push.

Some of those make it harder to fold the chair and make it larger, but many have a way to easily remove the handles.

Here's a wheelchair with not too many heavy pieces and the big wheels in reverse position so a small child can reach them to push.

Here is the website those pictures are from.
If you want any more advice, let me know. We are pretty experienced at this since we've been buying wheelchairs for DD for 20 years.

 

[SueM in MN]

Oh, one more thing I thought about.

If you get a denial from the insurance and really want her to have a manual wheelchair, file an appeal. Most people just let it drop there. The insurance companies know that and expect that a pretty high number of claims stop right there. You do have a right to keep going up the appeal process and keep making your case.

 

[mykidsintow]

We went yesterday and I felt more knowledgeable thanks do you guys!

Well the paperwork is officially started.

After much discussion and the rep/therapist talking to Julia and me... it was clear a chair was the way to go. Of course little miss surely has her own, very clear, opinions. She made clear exactly what she thinks she needs and why. It was pretty adorable, if I do say so myself.

So we decided chair and it was between the Quickie or the Zippy 2. Both had pros and cons.

Quickie:

Her size (pro)
Down to the ground she can easily transfer (pro)
Smaller than her peers (con)
Very small and light weight (pro)
Doesn't fold (con)

Zippie 2

We will need a custom seat (big shocker, since she is 26 lbs, hehe)
Its higher - on level with peers (pro)
Its higher- off the floor for transfers... I guess this SHOULD be a con, but if you have been around Julia at all you know this is really moot. she climbs on countertops daily... its not a huge deal...
Its a bit larger (?)
It folds (pro)

Therapist said Quickie.... Rep said zippie....
I just laughed. i guess you totally have to know them to 'get it'..... they are so freakin awesome I can't even begin to rave enough!!! ANYWAY.... we called over a couple other therapists for opinions.... and in the end we went with the Zippie 2...

Of course the Zippie choice I think ended up being against most therapists recommendations (size, safety, blah blah blah). It was more about peer interaction which is the general issue with the stroller to begin with. We also got out a quickie and she said it was a chair for babies. That its baby size and she would have to talk to just babies or look at the sky to see anyone else. As I said, she spares no opinions....

Zippie 2 it is. razzleberry is the color of choice. She wanted to call the company about why blue and black have sparkley and purple and pink don't.....

Thoughts/Opinions?!

 

[mechurchlady]

Go with the Zippie and make the kid happy. It is hard enough being in a pushchair and different from other kids so let her have the Zippie. It is easier to have a chair that folds also.

Big hugs and chocolates.
Laurie

 

[SueM in MN]

We went yesterday and I felt more knowledgeable thanks do you guys!

Well the paperwork is officially started.

After much discussion and the rep/therapist talking to Julia and me... it was clear a chair was the way to go. Of course little miss surely has her own, very clear, opinions. She made clear exactly what she thinks she needs and why. It was pretty adorable, if I do say so myself.

So we decided chair and it was between the Quickie or the Zippy 2. Both had pros and cons.

Quickie:

Her size (pro)
Down to the ground she can easily transfer (pro)
Smaller than her peers (con)
Very small and light weight (pro)
Doesn't fold (con)

Zippie 2

We will need a custom seat (big shocker, since she is 26 lbs, hehe)
Its higher - on level with peers (pro)
Its higher- off the floor for transfers... I guess this SHOULD be a con, but if you have been around Julia at all you know this is really moot. she climbs on countertops daily... its not a huge deal...
Its a bit larger (?)
It folds (pro)

Therapist said Quickie.... Rep said zippie....
I just laughed. i guess you totally have to know them to 'get it'..... they are so freakin awesome I can't even begin to rave enough!!! ANYWAY.... we called over a couple other therapists for opinions.... and in the end we went with the Zippie 2...

Of course the Zippie choice I think ended up being against most therapists recommendations (size, safety, blah blah blah). It was more about peer interaction which is the general issue with the stroller to begin with. We also got out a quickie and she said it was a chair for babies. That its baby size and she would have to talk to just babies or look at the sky to see anyone else. As I said, she spares no opinions....

Zippie 2 it is. razzleberry is the color of choice. She wanted to call the company about why blue and black have sparkley and purple and pink don't.....

Thoughts/Opinions?!

Just so adults with Quickie Wheelchairs don't get confused, Sunrise Medical makes a low to the ground Quickie Kidz wheelchair that is the one being talked about here.
My DD's manual wheelchair is a Quickie GP. All of her manual wheelchairs have been Sunrise Medical products (they didn't make the Zippie models until after she had gotten her first couple wheelchairs). Anyway, they make very nice wheelchairs.

My DD's power wheelchair is made by Invacare, so they don't have the same color names. Her power wheelchair is a razzberry color. When she got her last manual wheelchair, she was deciding between razzleberry and purple. Purple won. The metalic colors like razzleberry are pretty, but I also wonder why they don't make other colors with sparkly.

I told my DD about your Julia and she said to tell Julia she will like her pink wheelchair. DD was glad to hear that Julia was going to get a wheelchair because she also thinks a big girl like Julia needs a wheelchair.

 

[DisneyWheeler]

Both of my wheelchairs are Quickie (Quickie 2 manual wheelchair, Quickie S-525 power chair) and I can tell you that they have held up well in the many years since I've had them, although my power chair tends to need constant repairs every time I blink. I wanted to go for Pearl Pink for my color choices when I got my manual wheelchair in 2000, and my power chair a year later. But, I got talked out of it by my mom. I don't know why, but I finally settled for a blue frame color for my manual wheelchair, and candy purple for my power chair frame color.

Purple, and I think pearl pink are the two most wheelchair colors that seem to really get noticed. I've had a lot of people that I don't know come up and tell me that they love the purple color when I'm cruising around town with my power chair.

I'm glad that I got my manual wheelchair before I got my power chair because the insurance company will only pay for new parts to my power chair, or new accessories. They won't pay for any repairs or new parts that are needed on my manual wheelchair.

I'm the same way as your daughter when it comes to walking for certain distances before I get tired easily. I have severe scoliosis in my back, as well as osteoarthritis, and knee issues with both knees, and walking with/without a walker or cane for long distances can be pretty tiring.

Samantha

 

[mykidsintow]

Thanks for the thoughts!

Here is julia in her power chair:

As you can see its purple and coated in stickers. I need to take googone to it and let her start with fresh stickers... one of these days .

The razzleberry color is purple, not pink. Here is a link to the color.... its really kinda ugly, but I didn't pick it
http://www.rehabmart.com/images_html/Razzleberry.jpg
She really wanted a sparkley color...

Anyway, they said it would be 5-6 months. We have to wait on our private insurance to deny it and then medicaid will deny it and they will use a grant to get the chair. However, the insurance companies have to deny it first.

I told them to write that we needed it to keep her power chair out of rain and save them money . We will see how it goes. She is pretty excited!

 

[SueM in MN]

The razzleberry color is purple, not pink. Here is a link to the color.... its really kinda ugly, but I didn't pick it
http://www.rehabmart.com/images_html/Razzleberry.jpg
She really wanted a sparkley color...

It's the color I was thinking of. It's much better in person - one of DD's friends has the color. It's sort of a cross between purple and pink (dark fushia).

Good luck on all the paperwork. Sometimes the hardest part is getting the insurance company to deny it so you can go to the next step.