Puppy Love - Westies to be specific.

[Octoberbeauty]

Some of you know that I've been talking about buying a Westie puppy for a long time. Well, I think I've finally found the right one. Here are some pictures of her: http://www.nancys-westies.com/rosegirl.html and you can watch a video of her playing here: http://www.nancys-westies.com/images/chewylitter/week7movie She's the one in the hot pink. Isn't she adorable?? I've already emailed them and am really thinking about it. I'm already in LOVE with her! We are thinking about naming her Heidi.

So, what do you think? See any problems I don't or know of any specific questions I should ask first? I've already asked a bunch, but you may think of something I haven't.

 

[wvjules]

Have you considered a rescue group?

 

[bekkiz]

I know this might seem weird or judgemental, but she doesn't come across as the most, well, responsible breeder. She only has a 1 month health guarantee (the top breeders give a 5 year+ one)

She seems to have a constant supply of puppies, which means she's either got a ton of female dogs, or is breeding them more than once a year (bad bad bad). Most good breeders would never sell you a puppy without meeting you first as well as having you meet the dogs. Conversly, I would never spend that much money on a dog with meeting the parents, seeing the living conditions and picking out the pup. That she wwould ship and infant puppy through the air is just plain mean.

Here's a list of breeder contacts. Everyone listed is committed to healthy and responsible breeding, and can point you in the right direction
http://www.westieclubamerica.com/teamwestie/rrc.html

 

[Aimeedyan]

I know you are smitten with this puppy, but I see some red flags with this breeder.

For one, what does she require of you? All she states is some basic agreement that you'll feed the dog, take it to the vet, and provide heartworm meds. She doesn't even require you to spay or neuter, which is a huge red flag. GOOD breeders know that people who have no business breeding shouldn't be doing it, and will require their puppies to be neutered or spayed immediately to prevent the overpopulation of poorly bred dogs.

She only gives a one month health agreement, which is questionable - what is she hiding by not offering more than that? Good breeders give way more than that.

She states that her parents are free of genetic disease to the best of her knowledge, which is probably no knowledge since she doesn't mention any genetic testing that she does. Which means she doesn't do any, because if she was investing in her dogs by doing that testing to ensure a better breed, she'd tell you about. For that money she's charging, she needs to be doing more than just putting a male and female together, which is what she appears to be doing solely.

I worry about any breeder willing to ship a dog without even meeting you. Good breeders see their pups as their babies, they are choosy with who takes them - it doesn't just go to the first person to drop $600 in their hands. A good breeder would encourage you to visit them, visit with the mom and dad, see the temperment. YOU would want to do these things, see where these pups are raised, etc. By buying online, you have no idea if this is just a cover for a huge puppy mill or truly someone breeding in their kitchen. I know a girl that bought a Yorkie recently from someone she thought was a wonderful, legitimate breeder. She had the pup mailed to her. Pup quickly came down with Parvo. After some more research, which should have been done before shipping a puppy to her, she found that the wonderful breeder was nothing more than a broker for a huge puppy mill. Looks can be deceiving.

I would never buy from someone that would ship an infant to someone.

Good breeders do not have a steady supply of pups, they are choosy about when and who they breed, and they often have a waiting list. They test for genetic issues, and only breed for a better breed. Buying from a quality breeder takes more time, too, you often don't get them immediately. But it's worth the wait to have a better quality dog and to give your money to someone truly doing their job well.

Westies are wonderful, but I encourage you to consider a rescue pup or a good quality breeder that seems more legitimate... For that money, you should be guaranteed more things than she is offering. I don't mean to sound judgement, I just think you're going to invest a lot of love, money, and time into this new member of your family and could do better to ensure it's a good decision for everyone involved...

They sure are cute, aren't they? I hope you find the perfect one!

 

[Octoberbeauty]

Thank you everyone for input. You have brought up some valid concerns. I do want to say that we have spent years researching westies and waiting for the right time to get one. This is the choice that we have made. I know EVERY time someone mentions buying a dog, people jump in with the "rescue" dogs and the "pound" puppies. Please respect my decision to buy the breed I want. Okay, back to the regularly scheduled thread....

A lot of this info I couldn't read, so I was wondering where you were getting the info. Come to find out, my browser wasn't compatible and once I changed I was able to read the agreement. One month is short!! But it is a year for the genetic problems and that does seem to be the standard from all the sites I've visited. These people are close to me. I will be able to go check out the premises and the pups.

ALL the sites I've visited will ship puppies. From the really expensive ones to the really cheap ones, so I don't see that as a problem. As for myself personally, I wouldn't dream of buying a puppy so far away that needed to be shipped. Seems like a traumatic start for the little one.

I will definitely be doing more discussion with her before making a decision. Oh, and where did someone see that they were putting out lots of puppies a year? I don't find that anywhere on the site.

 

[illini]

Hi, I am new here but I actually bought a shih tsu online 3 weeks ago. He is awesome!! We had him shipped from Houston to Indy which was a little nerve wracking for me but he made it through fine. Also when I met my exh he had a westie who was a great dog.
Laurie

 

[Aimeedyan]

Thank you everyone for input. You have brought up some valid concerns. I do want to say that we have spent years researching westies and waiting for the right time to get one. This is the choice that we have made. I know EVERY time someone mentions buying a dog, people jump in with the "rescue" dogs and the "pound" puppies. Please respect my decision to buy the breed I want. Okay, back to the regularly scheduled thread....

A lot of this info I couldn't read, so I was wondering where you were getting the info. Come to find out, my browser wasn't compatible and once I changed I was able to read the agreement. One month is short!! But it is a year for the genetic problems and that does seem to be the standard from all the sites I've visited. These people are close to me. I will be able to go check out the premises and the pups.

ALL the sites I've visited will ship puppies. From the really expensive ones to the really cheap ones, so I don't see that as a problem. As for myself personally, I wouldn't dream of buying a puppy so far away that needed to be shipped. Seems like a traumatic start for the little one.

I will definitely be doing more discussion with her before making a decision. Oh, and where did someone see that they were putting out lots of puppies a year? I don't find that anywhere on the site.

I have nothing against buying from a good, quality breeder - I bought my Shih Tzu from a breeder, though we will rescue next time, we wanted to do the breeder path the first time.

Good breeders usually don't have websites, which is a reason why you're finding ones that ship. Online sales are huge, and people have figured that out quickly. Good breeders don't need to advertise online, as their quality sells themselves. That's why you are finding that to be true.

Someone who generates enough puppies to offer them often, and to have a well maintained website, AND to offer to ship puppies has too many litters a year to be a good quality breeder. Really good breeders only have 1-2 a year, and have people waiting on them. They don't need to sell them online.

Does that make sense?

Glad they are close enough to visit if you decide on them Good luck in whatever decision you make!

 

[alliecats]

I don't have any advice for you, just wanted to say I adore Westies too. They are THE dog, as far as I am concerned. Although we have 2 cats and I am a cat person, I still drool over every one I see.

BTW, the one in the hot pink? She's cuter than Bill Pullman. AND Gary Sinise.

 

[Octoberbeauty]

I don't have any advice for you, just wanted to say I adore Westies too. They are THE dog, as far as I am concerned. Although we have 2 cats and I am a cat person, I still drool over every one I see.

BTW, the one in the hot pink? She's cuter than Bill Pullman. AND Gary Sinise.

I totally agree with you! And much easier to get along with too, I'm sure!

 

[phillybeth]

I know this might seem weird or judgemental, but she doesn't come across as the most, well, responsible breeder. She only has a 1 month health guarantee (the top breeders give a 5 year+ one)

She seems to have a constant supply of puppies, which means she's either got a ton of female dogs, or is breeding them more than once a year (bad bad bad). Most good breeders would never sell you a puppy without meeting you first as well as having you meet the dogs. Conversly, I would never spend that much money on a dog with meeting the parents, seeing the living conditions and picking out the pup. That she wwould ship and infant puppy through the air is just plain mean.

Here's a list of breeder contacts. Everyone listed is committed to healthy and responsible breeding, and can point you in the right direction
http://www.westieclubamerica.com/teamwestie/rrc.html

I agree. She's a backyard breeder, bordering on puppy mill. Every instinct I have is telling me to stay far, far away from this 'breeder'.

 

[phillybeth]

Thank you everyone for input. You have brought up some valid concerns. I do want to say that we have spent years researching westies and waiting for the right time to get one. This is the choice that we have made. I know EVERY time someone mentions buying a dog, people jump in with the "rescue" dogs and the "pound" puppies. Please respect my decision to buy the breed I want. Okay, back to the regularly scheduled thread....

No one is saying don't get a Westie. But there ARE breed rescues out there. I volunteer for a national Cairn rescue and we get pups all the time- just got a 3MO female this weekend. Please check out these links:

http://www.westierescue.com/
http://www.westierescueofmissouri.com/ - a great group. They save tons of dogs from midwest puppy mills.

If you don't want to adopt even a pup through a rescue, please, for your sake and the dog's, go to a reputable breeder.

 

[rascalmom]

We have a Westie - he's a wonderful little dog! I did a lot of research before we got him & talked to several Westie owners, breeders & Westie club people. I did find out the hard way about the puppy mills. Like you, I found a dog via a website & everything looked good. Talked to the guy & he said all the right things. We drove out to look at the puppies & it turned out to be a horrible mill. The conditions those dogs were being kept in was appalling. The adults were in awful condition with their coats falling out & sadness in there eyes. Needless to say, we kept looking. But I still remember those poor little guys & wonder what happened to them.

Finally found a breeder that we were happy with thru the Westie club. Drove to Tyler, Texas to look at the dogs, see the parents & the conditions they were being kept in. This was truly a "Mom & pop" breeder who was doing it right. She had two females & one male. The older female was "retired" from breeding because she had had 3 litters. That was this ladies max for her dogs. 2 years between litters. The adults were her family. She truly checked us out before she let us buy a dog. There are a lot of puppy mills in our part of the country & she made sure we did not have those intentions before she agreed to even let us come look at the puppies. We had to sign an agreement to have him fixed.

Three years later Gizmo is a major part of our family. He is healthy, happy, playful & gentle. We recently had guests who had a 15 month old baby with them - this was our dog's first exposure to an infant. He very sweetly & gently played ball with the little guy. Westies have great personalities & love to cuddle & play. Hope you find the right dog for your family.

 

[Octoberbeauty]

We have a Westie - he's a wonderful little dog! I did a lot of research before we got him & talked to several Westie owners, breeders & Westie club people. I did find out the hard way about the puppy mills. Like you, I found a dog via a website & everything looked good. Talked to the guy & he said all the right things. We drove out to look at the puppies & it turned out to be a horrible mill. The conditions those dogs were being kept in was appalling. The adults were in awful condition with their coats falling out & sadness in there eyes. Needless to say, we kept looking. But I still remember those poor little guys & wonder what happened to them.

Finally found a breeder that we were happy with thru the Westie club. Drove to Tyler, Texas to look at the dogs, see the parents & the conditions they were being kept in. This was truly a "Mom & pop" breeder who was doing it right. She had two females & one male. The older female was "retired" from breeding because she had had 3 litters. That was this ladies max for her dogs. 2 years between litters. The adults were her family. She truly checked us out before she let us buy a dog. There are a lot of puppy mills in our part of the country & she made sure we did not have those intentions before she agreed to even let us come look at the puppies. We had to sign an agreement to have him fixed.

Three years later Gizmo is a major part of our family. He is healthy, happy, playful & gentle. We recently had guests who had a 15 month old baby with them - this was our dog's first exposure to an infant. He very sweetly & gently played ball with the little guy. Westies have great personalities & love to cuddle & play. Hope you find the right dog for your family.

Tyler is not too far for me to drive for a pupppy. Would you mind pm'ing me the info for this breeder? Thanks!

 

[purplebelle]

rascalmom~
(or anyone else with a westie)

My fam has a westie too (Nellie). She is 2 1/2 and very sweet, except she def has a naughty side. She has bitten many in our fam of 6 (19 yrs and up; has made me bleed). She sneaks in our beds at night and if you roll over or barely touch her she growls and kinda pretends to bite (but it scares me). And if you pick her up when she's not in the mood---yeah, there's the growling and threatening to bite again.

My parents think it's just her breed that are all like that. Yet i see lil westies everywhere all happy and normal on the street. I'm not crazy about going home to a dog who's mean. Maybe she's spoiled rotten by my parents?

How is your westie? Did he/she do this? How to make it stop?!

 

[Kasmir]

For one, what does she require of you? All she states is some basic agreement that you'll feed the dog, take it to the vet, and provide heartworm meds. She doesn't even require you to spay or neuter, which is a huge red flag. GOOD breeders know that people who have no business breeding shouldn't be doing it, and will require their puppies to be neutered or spayed immediately to prevent the overpopulation of poorly bred dogs.

I worry about any breeder willing to ship a dog without even meeting you. Good breeders see their pups as their babies, they are choosy with who takes them - it doesn't just go to the first person to drop $600 in their hands. A good breeder would encourage you to visit them, visit with the mom and dad, see the temperment. YOU would want to do these things, see where these pups are raised, etc. By buying online, you have no idea if this is just a cover for a huge puppy mill or truly someone breeding in their kitchen.

There are wonderful, responsible breeders out there, who love their dogs and want to place their puppies in excellent homes. What Aimeedyan said is absolutely right-on. If you're going to go with a breeder, please don't go with this one!

I know that you want a puppy. When we got our Boxer, I did too; but I'd always volunteered and worked actively in animal welfare, and - quite honestly - felt incredibly guilty considering a non-shelter dog. I contacted Boxer Rescue and asked if they ever got any Boxer puppies and was told that they do on occasion... puppy mill raids, etc. I had never had a puppy before because, growing up, my parents had always adopted adult shelter dogs. The year before, I had received a terrible dog bite that required three surgeries; because I had developed a somewhat irrational fear of dogs as a result (I was even afraid of our family dogs - that I'd known for 8+ years, when I went home on college breaks), I knew that I needed to get a puppy.

Anyway, about two months after I originally contacted Boxer Rescue, I received a phone call: One of the best calls of my entire life! Sadly, a breeder had unexpectedly died and had a female boxer with one-week old puppies, which came into the care of Boxer Rescue. Of the nine puppies, eight were claimed. Did I want to travel to the foster home, right now, today, and claim the last puppy? I did! And six weeks later, I brought her home.

Now, my Boxer has had her share of health problems over the years - due, I'm sure to indescriminate or irresponsible breeding. But she is the single best dog that I've ever shared my life with and God has created few kinder, gentler, loyal creatures. She not only restored my faith in dog-kind, but she has been an absolute joy to our family. My son is Autistic and often our Boxer is the only one that he'll allow into his world. Friday was her 11th birthday!

So good luck on your journey and search! Westies are great dogs...

 

[Octoberbeauty]

Okay, have another question for everyone. What if she doesn't have very many westies, they live in her home, she doesn't breed them more than once or twice a year, and I visit the site and everything looks fine....would you still have concerns about buying a puppy from her? Why or why not? Is it just because they're listed online? Just wondering. I'm learning lots from this thread. My first priority is to getting a good dog with a good disposition. From watching the video, she looks healthy and friendly, but I certainly don't want to spend that much and end up with a "bad" dog.

 

[phillybeth]

Okay, have another question for everyone. What if she doesn't have very many westies, they live in her home, she doesn't breed them more than once or twice a year, and I visit the site and everything looks fine....would you still have concerns about buying a puppy from her? Why or why not? Is it just because they're listed online? Just wondering. I'm learning lots from this thread. My first priority is to getting a good dog with a good disposition. From watching the video, she looks healthy and friendly, but I certainly don't want to spend that much and end up with a "bad" dog.

Hmm, that's a tough one. I know some reputable breeders that list online, not necessarily to sell pups but to advertise their kennel, so it's not the online thing that's bugging me. Her site is very spotty, she's only got 1 male and 1 female on her parents page but she's got two litters. The about us page is a dead link. Every reputable breeder I know (and remember this is for a breed very closly related to Westies) won't even think about letting a pup go home before 12 weeks- in most cases 16 weeks. 8 weeks is way too early for a small-breed pup to leave mom and littermates. The pedigrees are FULL of puppymill dogs. Either she gets her breeding dogs from mills or buys them at petstores. There is not a champion among them- not to be a snob, but conformation breeders (the ones that show) are the ones most concerned with health, temperment, etc and are truly trying to better the breed, not make money. Mill and/or pet store stock will not make healthy pups with good temperments. Yes you can get lucky and get a wonderful dog, but you have about the same chance of getting a sick dog, or one with serious behavioral problems. That is rare with a good breeder.
My parents got their cairn through a reputable breeder, and they have a LIFELONG guarentee for health and genetics, even though he was sold as a pet, not to be bred. He's got bladder stones now (at 7) and they called the breeder to tell her- she's very concerned as she's never had a dog of her breeding with that problem before.

 

[lizdotcom99]

Here is my $.02...as an owner of a puppy mill westie. DO NOT get the puppy from this lady!! 13 years ago I bought my first puppy ever...the cutest westie ya ever did see. Of course I had NO IDEA about anything and just paid the money and got my dog! BIG mistake! Now, I will tell ya that Barkley is definately the love of my life and spoiled rotten. But I can promise you that I will NEVER buy a dog from anyone who is not a reputable breeder.

The first year of Barkley's life we spent well over $5000 to keep him alive. He had MANY bouts will all kinds of stuff and had little to no immune system. He was in and out of the emergancy hospital I don't know how many times. It was very sad.....but he is "fine" today. We still spend LOTS of $$$$$ on him at the vet due to his various health issues. $500 to be more exact over the past two weeks for his annual check up and shots and teeth cleaning...which he can not be anethestised normally, needs gas....costs more......but I woud never not do that for him.

He has always had a funny tummy and tends to throw up a lot. That happens at least two or three times a month. And if you have never seen a puppy with a rumbly tummy...it is not pretty...and what is worse is knowing there is not much you can do about it. Well, you can try doggie pepto...but that is not pretty either. I think Barkley gets more of it on me and my entire kitchen than in his mouth....

At Barkley's last yearly, which was just last week, there was some indication of kidney problems developing. Now, he is 13 and getting older...and I can't say this a puppy mill problem, but I am sure there could be some correlation.

I love Barkley more than you could imagine. I would NEVER trade him for anything. But, having gotten him form a puppy mill breader, I would NEVER do anythng like that again. The money we have spent to keep him alive is astonomical. Not that money is the issue...but if you are going to buy a puppy from a non reputable breeder, you might want to think about expenses to get/keep these little guys healthy.

On the other hand, my BIL has awestie that is 17. She was bought from a reputable breeded and has really not had too many problems prior to tha past year or two. She is definately an old girl and has lived a very long and happy life.

Between Wendy and Barkely, there is a world of difference health wise.. I really hope you consider what others have said on this thread. Do yourself and your new puppy a favor and get started out on the right foot...a reputable breeder. You will be VERY happy that you did in the long run!

Good luck!!!

Liz

 

[Kasmir]

rascalmom~
(or anyone else with a westie)

My fam has a westie too (Nellie). She is 2 1/2 and very sweet, except she def has a naughty side. She has bitten many in our fam of 6 (19 yrs and up; has made me bleed). She sneaks in our beds at night and if you roll over or barely touch her she growls and kinda pretends to bite (but it scares me). And if you pick her up when she's not in the mood---yeah, there's the growling and threatening to bite again.

My parents think it's just her breed that are all like that. Yet i see lil westies everywhere all happy and normal on the street. I'm not crazy about going home to a dog who's mean. Maybe she's spoiled rotten by my parents?

How is your westie? Did he/she do this? How to make it stop?!

Purplebelle: That behavior is unacceptable and should NEVER be tolerated. For her to growl at people and think it's okay to nip or bite is a time bomb.

That behavior can be due to spoiling, but more often it happens gradually as the dog tests its boundaries.

Your parents need training for your dog. 85% of the dogs who are dumped at shelters are given up as a result of undesirable behaviors. The fact that 95% of them are trainable and adoptable is a testament to the power of training. Often dog training consists of as much training for the people (to set boundaries, etc), as for the dog! Humane societies and Petsmart often have affordable training classes.

You should NEVER feel frightened of a dog in your own home! Our dogs were taught from day one that it was never acceptable - no matter what the circumstances - to put their mouth on a human.

I hope that helps!

 

[Octoberbeauty]

Hmm, that's a tough one. I know some reputable breeders that list online, not necessarily to sell pups but to advertise their kennel, so it's not the online thing that's bugging me. Her site is very spotty, she's only got 1 male and 1 female on her parents page but she's got two litters. The about us page is a dead link. Every reputable breeder I know (and remember this is for a breed very closly related to Westies) won't even think about letting a pup go home before 12 weeks- in most cases 16 weeks. 8 weeks is way too early for a small-breed pup to leave mom and littermates. The pedigrees are FULL of puppymill dogs. Either she gets her breeding dogs from mills or buys them at petstores. There is not a champion among them- not to be a snob, but conformation breeders (the ones that show) are the ones most concerned with health, temperment, etc and are truly trying to better the breed, not make money. Mill and/or pet store stock will not make healthy pups with good temperments. Yes you can get lucky and get a wonderful dog, but you have about the same chance of getting a sick dog, or one with serious behavioral problems. That is rare with a good breeder.
My parents got their cairn through a reputable breeder, and they have a LIFELONG guarentee for health and genetics, even though he was sold as a pet, not to be bred. He's got bladder stones now (at 7) and they called the breeder to tell her- she's very concerned as she's never had a dog of her breeding with that problem before.

She is working on her site. In fact, she was doing a lot of work on it this morning while I was trying to look at it. So, I think she's new to the "website" thing. Also, she is not listed on any of the 'puppy for sale' sites.

How can you tell the pedigrees are full of puppymill dogs? I don't know how to read them and be able to tell that.

Okay, here's another site that is much stricter: http://www.freewebs.com/hallmarkpups/pupsinformation.htm I've considered getting on her waiting list. She does show some, and I believe there are some champions in the bloodlines. What are the opinions on this one? She is also located near me and not completely out of my price range.