PSA for Chase credit card churners and travel hackers

[calypso726]

As some of you already may know, Chase is now auto-denying applications for the Freedom and Sapphire Preferred Cards if you have had 5 credit card account applications from any issuer over the last 24 months.

The travel hacker blogosphere has received information from a reliable Chase insider. The rule is now going to be extended on the Ink business cards in March and then in April will be applicable to all of the hotel and airline co-branded Chase cards.

I know many people have received the Southwest Chase credit card for the 50,000 mile bonus and then cancelled the card and re-applied at a later date to get the bonus again. Churning Chase cards is now a thing of the past.

So, if anyone is sitting on the fence about getting the Chase Ink business card, hotel or airline co-branded Chase credit cards do it soon. Especially those of use who have well more than 5 apps in 24 months.

 

[Friendlyadvice2]

Got instant approval for another Ink this morning. Churning Chase may become more difficult for those that don't understand the process but they've been denying apps for too many hard pulls for years. It all depends which bureau they query and understanding that is important. Most Chase bonus offers are limited to every 24 months anyway (that verbiage not found in the Ink T&C FWIW) so a little more common sense and understanding and a lot less "travel hacking" will go a long way! Churning the SW cards won't be an issue.....Business as usual in my camp.

 

[wendow]

SW is the card we churn. Why won't it be an issue?

OP, thanks for posting. I had heard this but didn't really understand what I was being told.

 

[Friendlyadvice2]

That depends on your personal situation and your strategy. Why do you think it may be an issue for you? Chase has been auto denying apps for too many inquiries along with other factors for years. You're not eligible to receive the SW bonus for two years anyway, so using some planning in getting the cards you really want and tracking your hard pulls each year if you are churning other cards will help you achieve your goals.

 

[Ava]

I know we spoke in the other thread, but thank you for posting this! I'm going to double check all of my credit cards to see when I opened them; with the exception of one new one I *think* they are all over 2 years old, but I'm not sure.

ETA: Will store cards count towards the 5 card limit as well? Now that I'm thinking about it, I may have gotten my Target RedCard within the last 2 years as well.

 

[calypso726]

@ Friendlyadvice2 - Chase has not had a hard/fast rule before with a set number of apps and time span that you can't get past on the reconsideration line and get approved. Most serious travel hackers are doing app-o-ramas of 3 - 5 cards every 90 days. I'm not that hard core on my travel hacking but I easily do 3 - 5 card apps a year. Knowing where Chase pulls from in your area is of no help because they aren't looking for inquiries. They are looking at open accounts which are reported to all 3 bureaus. So even if you personal Chase app pulls are Transunion in your area and you've opened up 5 accounts in the last 24 months from Amex and Citi which pull Experian it won't matter. Congrats on your second Ink card! That is one of my most lucrative cards for racking up UR points

@Ava - Yes, store cards will count from what I am reading and what other have reported when being declined on the 5/24 rule. You are very welcome

 

[Albort]

@ Friendlyadvice2 - Chase has not had a hard/fast rule before with a set number of apps and time span that you can't get past on the reconsideration line and get approved. Most serious travel hackers are doing app-o-ramas of 3 - 5 cards every 90 days. I'm not that hard core on my travel hacking but I easily do 3 - 5 card apps a year. Knowing where Chase pulls from in your area is of no help because they aren't looking for inquiries. They are looking at open accounts which are reported to all 3 bureaus. So even if you personal Chase app pulls are Transunion in your area and you've opened up 5 accounts in the last 24 months from Amex and Citi which pull Experian it won't matter. Congrats on your second Ink card! That is one of my most lucrative cards for racking up UR points

i dont think thats how it works. the initial application yes, you can apply for many cards, but after a few months, doesnt the other bureau also start reporting it?

 

[calypso726]

i dont think thats how it works. the initial application yes, you can apply for many cards, but after a few months, doesnt the other bureau also start reporting it?

We are both saying the same thing and we are both correct on how it works Friendlyadvice2 made the comment that "It all depends which bureau they query and understanding that is important." I was trying to explain that isn't the case anymore and knowing that where they pull from is of no help. It doesn't matter which bureau Chase pulls inquiries from in an applicant's area on the initial inquiry because what they are looking for are 5 or more open accounts in the last 24 months. Open accounts are going to show up on all 3 bureaus as I mentioned above. That is why I used the example of Chase pulling from TU and your previous 5 apps from Citi and Amex pulled from EX. It won't matter where they pull from because those 5 open accounts are going to show up on TU, EX and EQ.

 

[georgina]

Question for you knowledgeable people - I have had a Chase SW card for years. If I cancel it, how soon can I apply for a new one and get the 50,000 bonus points? Is the waiting period from the last time you got bonus points or the lat time you had an active card?

I've been getting e-mails from Marriott about getting 80,000 bonus pts also, but I got their bonus more recently so I'm not sure I'm eligible yet. I still have points left in my account from the last time I got their bonus, because I don't stay at Marriott much anymore.

 

[calypso726]

Question for you knowledgeable people - I have had a Chase SW card for years. If I cancel it, how soon can I apply for a new one and get the 50,000 bonus points? Is the waiting period from the last time you got bonus points or the lat time you had an active card?

I've been getting e-mails from Marriott about getting 80,000 bonus pts also, but I got their bonus more recently so I'm not sure I'm eligible yet. I still have points left in my account from the last time I got their bonus, because I don't stay at Marriott much anymore.

I believe their bonus is every 24 months. I know the British Airways card is like that from Chase. We had it a couple of years ago for the 100k bonus, then cancelled and reapplied when another 100k bonus offer came up. Personally I'd be wary of cancelling older credit cards as that will impact your credit score negatively in the long run. Hope that helps.

 

[Friendlyadvice2]

@ Friendlyadvice2 - Chase has not had a hard/fast rule before with a set number of apps and time span that you can't get past on the reconsideration line and get approved. Most serious travel hackers are doing app-o-ramas of 3 - 5 cards every 90 days. I'm not that hard core on my travel hacking but I easily do 3 - 5 card apps a year. Knowing where Chase pulls from in your area is of no help because they aren't looking for inquiries. They are looking at open accounts which are reported to all 3 bureaus. So even if you personal Chase app pulls are Transunion in your area and you've opened up 5 accounts in the last 24 months from Amex and Citi which pull Experian it won't matter. Congrats on your second Ink card! That is one of my most lucrative cards for racking up UR points

@Ava - Yes, store cards will count from what I am reading and what other have reported when being declined on the 5/24 rule. You are very welcome

We are both saying the same thing and we are both correct on how it works Friendlyadvice2 made the comment that "It all depends which bureau they query and understanding that is important." I was trying to explain that isn't the case anymore and knowing that where they pull from is of no help. It doesn't matter which bureau Chase pulls inquiries from in an applicant's area on the initial inquiry because what they are looking for are 5 or more open accounts in the last 24 months. Open accounts are going to show up on all 3 bureaus as I mentioned above. That is why I used the example of Chase pulling from TU and your previous 5 apps from Citi and Amex pulled from EX. It won't matter where they pull from because those 5 open accounts are going to show up on TU, EX and EQ.

I'm not at all interested in debating this with you here on the Dis, but these posts are completely inaccurate. Many people getting auto approved that are well over 5/24, including myself; you're only seeing the people complaining of denials. Its not hard coded into their algorithms and not hard/fast as of yet.

The goal is auto approval. The importance of inquiries in getting auto approved for cards is second to only FICO, is easily researchable and there are many tools out there to plan your hard pulls for those in the know. One such tool sorted by bank, card, and state is here: https://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?app=creditpulls . By spreading out those inquiries between the bureaus, you will prevent a human from ever analyzing your open accounts because you'll be auto approved based on FICO and a hard pull with minimal inquiries. A hard pull from a bureau with too many inquiries is what leads to an app approval delay, human review and the potential to be told 5/24. Why go there if you don't have to?? As I said in my initial post, more common sense, less hacking goes a long way.

And NO, NO, and NO, open accounts rarely show up on all three bureaus, which is the premise of your posts. The credit reports I manage have not been identical in years. There is currently a 71K difference in revolving credit availability (credit cards) between my reports.....my initial mortgage is only listed on one report.....my current mortgage is listed on two....Amex cards show up on only one report......Chase and Cap One show up on two. ID Protection software is exceptional in analyzing this data. I could go on and on, but I won't. I'll leave that to the "travel hackers" that are getting denied apps; they must know what they're doing right?

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

I'm not at all interested in debating this with you here on the Dis, but these posts are completely inaccurate. Many people getting auto approved that are well over 5/24, including myself; you're only seeing the people complaining of denials. Its not hard coded into their algorithms and not hard/fast as of yet.

The goal is auto approval. The importance of inquiries in getting auto approved for cards is second to only FICO, is easily researchable and there are many tools out there to plan your hard pulls for those in the know. One such tool sorted by bank, card, and state is here: https://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?app=creditpulls . By spreading out those inquiries between the bureaus, you will prevent a human from ever analyzing your open accounts because you'll be auto approved based on FICO and a hard pull with minimal inquiries. A hard pull from a bureau with too many inquiries is what leads to an app approval delay, human review and the potential to be told 5/24. Why go there if you don't have to?? As I said in my initial post, more common sense, less hacking goes a long way.

And NO, NO, and NO, open accounts rarely show up on all three bureaus, which is the premise of your posts. The credit reports I manage have not been identical in years. There is currently a 71K difference in revolving credit availability (credit cards) between my reports.....my initial mortgage is only listed on one report.....my current mortgage is listed on two....Amex cards show up on only one report......Chase and Cap One show up on two. ID Protection software is exceptional in analyzing this data. I could go on and on, but I won't. I'll leave that to the "travel hackers" that are getting denied apps; they must know what they're doing right?

I don't know the ins and outs of the Chase process. I do know that I got denied and was told it is because I've had more than 5 new accounts in the last 24 months. No amount of closing, shuffling moving around credit would do, I was simply not eligible for a new card.

Now I know which bureau Chase pulls from and did not have 5 hard pulls on that account. Maybe I'm the only one but this would lead me to believe that it's more than just FICO that determines the auto-decision.

I've picked up several cards from other banks since then, in fact, Chase is the only bank I've ever had an issue.

My hard pulls are different on each report, but my open accounts are the same across all three reports regardless of where the initial pull happened.

 

[Friendlyadvice2]

Now I know which bureau Chase pulls from and did not have 5 hard pulls on that account. Maybe I'm the only one but this would lead me to believe that it's more than just FICO that determines the auto-decision.

I've picked up several cards from other banks since then, in fact, Chase is the only bank I've ever had an issue.

No, you're definitely not the only one, there are multiple reports of people being denied and approved; there's no disputing that. That's why it's not a hard/fast rule. And they clearly look at a number of items in creating their algorithms, FICO and inquiries being the most important. We've had two out of our "group" get denials (less than 800 FICO though), but many more approvals (all over 800). I have no idea what your FICO is, how many cards you've got recently, how recent the inquiries were, etc. (which is better kept personal), everybody's equation is different. What did your denial letter say versus what the rep stated?

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

No, you're definitely not the only one, there are multiple reports of people being denied and approved; there's no disputing that. That's why it's not a hard/fast rule. And they clearly look at a number of items in creating their algorithms, FICO and inquiries being the most important. We've had two out of our "group" get denials (less than 800 FICO though), but many more approvals (all over 800). I have no idea what your FICO is, how many cards you've got recently, how recent the inquiries were, etc. (which is better kept personal), everybody's equation is different. What did your denial letter say versus what the rep stated?

Denial said exactly what rep said "more than five new accounts in the past 24 months"

 

[Albort]

We are both saying the same thing and we are both correct on how it works Friendlyadvice2 made the comment that "It all depends which bureau they query and understanding that is important." I was trying to explain that isn't the case anymore and knowing that where they pull from is of no help. It doesn't matter which bureau Chase pulls inquiries from in an applicant's area on the initial inquiry because what they are looking for are 5 or more open accounts in the last 24 months. Open accounts are going to show up on all 3 bureaus as I mentioned above. That is why I used the example of Chase pulling from TU and your previous 5 apps from Citi and Amex pulled from EX. It won't matter where they pull from because those 5 open accounts are going to show up on TU, EX and EQ.

ahh got it. my bad.
not much of a big spending. i think this rule only affects heavy churners though. got my credit card application in line on what im gonna apply for next... lol. this hobby is addicting!

 

[calypso726]

Well that's good Friendlyadvice2 as I wasn't planning to argue. I am not doubting your success or the discrepancies in you credit reports. Mine and my husbands 3 reports all report the same accounts as do they do many other people's credit reports. I was sharing information that was provided by a Chase insider of what the future holds for the Ink come March (no surprise you were approved as it isn't March yet) and co-branded airline and hotel Chase cards in April The 5/24 rule has been quoted by Chase reps to numerous applicants upon denial and in their denial letter according to posters on Flyertalk. My thread was a PSA for those who may have 5 apps over the last 24 months that may be considering one of these cards. If you believe what you are doing works best for you then I applaud you and wish you nothing but success and I hope the new changes will not impact you in any way shape or form. I know they will impact me. Auto approvals are great but I am one of those who won't get auto approved by Chase. Between the 7 personal cards I have with Chase I am at the limit of their credi extension so I've had to call reconsideration for each pending app. I am going to proactively lower my limit on a few of their cards and then shoot for another card but I still doubt I'll get an auto approval. Despite that whAt we do works pretty well for us and I am ok with that. Cheers!

 

[Ngwira]

Denial said exactly what rep said "more than five new accounts in the past 24 months"

I got the same letter after applying for the sapphire and I am a chase checking and savings account holder ($36k in savings). I also hold a freedom and disney visa with a FICO of 805. I have applied for the disney visa, freedom, capital one quicksilver, amex blue, boa americash, discover it, BBT amex and citi thank you in the last 2 years.

 

[CalDisneyMomof2]

Question about the Chase Sapphire Preferred: I have 57,000 points that I accumulated from an insurance stay at Marriott. Now, can I combine those points with the 50,000+ I'd earn from opening up the card AND get 20% off by booking through THEIR portal? Trying to determine if it'd be best to get the Marriott Card or Sapphire. We're going to Atlantis next December(2017) and trying to do it the most economical way.

 

[calypso726]

Question about the Chase Sapphire Preferred: I have 57,000 points that I accumulated from an insurance stay at Marriott. Now, can I combine those points with the 50,000+ I'd earn from opening up the card AND get 20% off by booking through THEIR portal? Trying to determine if it'd be best to get the Marriott Card or Sapphire. We're going to Atlantis next December(2017) and trying to do it the most economical way.

The 50K Chase UR points you earned by opening up the card and getting the bonus can be transferred in to your Marriott loyalty program, added to your existing 57K Marriott points and they can be used to book a stay at Marriott. Your 57K Marriott points cannot be transferred out of Marriott into Chase UR points and added to your existing 50K UR points. I hope this helps. Other options to consider would be applying for, meeting the bonus spend on Barclay Arrival Plus, Capital One Venture and Well Fargo Propel card. Each one will get you over $400 in reward points that can be redeemed for travel. DH and I each applied for all 3 of these before last year's DCL 11 day Norway, Iceland, Scotland cruise so we would be able to pay for excursions at the ports. We had well over $2400 in reward points from those credit card sign up bonuses which we redeemed for paid excursions, spa sessions, tastings and souvenirs on board that coded as travel purchases.

 

[calypso726]

ahh got it. my bad.
not much of a big spending. i think this rule only affects heavy churners though. got my credit card application in line on what im gonna apply for next... lol. this hobby is addicting!

It does but is also affects non churners as well. Even before I got into this hobby I could have easily applied for 5 cards in 24 months for one reason or another. Yeah, it is addicting! I went back and forth on what card to get next for a couple of months. I was toying with getting the Chase British Airways card a second time or pulling the trigger on the Citi Prestige.