problem i saw on buses

[scottsod]

we just got back had a great time my son in in a wc and we took wdiw busses every day i did have one complaint lots and lots of older people
in rented or resort wheelchairs that could walk sitting in wc on the buses

they would get out of the chair and have some one in there party wheel it up have it tied down while they waited usualy in a bus seat and then get in it for the ride leaving one of the 2 spots unusable for some one who couldnt transfer if you can get out and stand and sit then sit in a seat and fold your chair please!!

scott

 

[Talking Hands]

Honestly if it is manual chair fold it and don't take up a wheelchair space. If it is an ECV, it is safer for the person to transfer if they can. I choose to remain in my power wheelchair because it can't be folded so I don't want to take up a seat and the 3 seats lost to my chair.

 

[lovedcookie]

That is definitely frustrating. I've encountered similar problems in the past using the bus system in our hometown. However, I've also had the opposite. Someone helping a person in a wheelchair board insisted that I transfer and fold my chair. . . even though I politely explained my wheelchair cannot fold and transferring would take me a very long time.

 

[hematite153]

Except for the one time that the bus driver insisted on tying down the chair, my DW always transfers and I hold the folded chair.

However, I find that I get a lot of dirty looks from people because it is "in their way." (On certain buses, I've figured out how to wedge it between the seats so that it doesn't take up much space that someone could stand in, but getting to these spaces requires getting on a relatively empty bus.)

My DFIL will be using an ECV for our next trip though, and I understand that they will suggest that it is preferable for him to transfer even though the ECV will need a tie-down spot.

 

[Creola]

We're just back from our first trip to WDW with me using an ECV. Every single bus driver insisted that I get out of the EVC and sit in a regular seat on the bus. I couldn't (still can't) understand why I needed to take up an extra seat while the scooter sat there empty. It was tied down...was I really safer sitting in a regular seat than I would have been siiting on the scooter?

BTW....I can't parallel park to save my life so I'd get the scooter onto the bus and then get up and let my husband park the thing. I wondered how many people may have watched this and wondered if I really needed the scooter. Trust me, without the scooter I would have spent 90% of my vacation in the hotel room!

And (slightly off topic), I heard NO nasty comments or snide remarks from anyone.

Carole

 

[Nanajo1]

My contract with the ECV vendor states I should transfer on busses. The one time I didn't, I found the ride very unsteady and uncomfortable. I also didn't like being straped into the scooter.

hematite153 However, I find that I get a lot of dirty looks from people because it is "in their way." (On certain buses, I've figured out how to wedge it between the seats so that it doesn't take up much space that someone could stand in, but getting to these spaces requires getting on a relatively empty bus.)

The w/c couldn't be any bigger than some of the double strollers. There are lots of things in life folks have to learn to live with. Being on a cramped bus is one. After all you're in Disney.

 

[hematite153]

The w/c couldn't be any bigger than some of the double strollers. There are lots of things in life folks have to learn to live with. Being on a cramped bus is one. After all you're in Disney.

Agreed--that's why I don't understand the looks.

We were travelling with people with a very large stroller so that may have exacerbated it.

My DW says, "I do understand the looks." Too many people on these boards and in the general public assume that if you are using a rented w/c and/or get up to transfer that you are just being lazy. They assume that you do not really need it. The oxymoron that many people are unable to see is that if my DW uses the w/c then she doesn't look like she needs it. If she doesn't use it then she'd hobble slower than an 18 month old and be unable to walk at all the next day and nobody would question her need for one.

 

[scottsod]

im not talking about ecv wich is another story im talking about folding wheelchairs that a person can transfer from an ecv will take up the spot if you ride on it or not im talking about being able to transfer to a bus seat and fold the wc to free up space for some one who cant stand at all!

and as far as strollers i got my 2 little ones a new doubble stroller just for the disney trip it folds up and then in 1/2 so i could put it behind my sons wc between him and the bus wall so it wouldnt take up bus isle space and when neeeded i let other parents do the same with there chair on busses that had space in front of my son where it wouldnt bother him but would help on standing room only rides its just that there seems to be lots of abuse or even embarasement by people in rental chairs if u need it fine but if u can get out of it get out of it dont worry people will think u dont need it if u stand up just dont sit in it when u can get out and make room for others!

 

[hematite153]

im not talking about ecv wich is another story im talking about folding wheelchairs that a person can transfer from...

and as far as strollers i got my 2 little ones a new doubble stroller just for the disney trip it folds up and then in 1/2...

...its just that there seems to be lots of abuse or even embarasement by people in rental chairs if u need it fine but if u can get out of it get out of it dont worry people will think u dont need it if u stand up just dont sit in it when u can get out and make room for others!

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I did understand what you were referring to. I was just pointing out that we get a lot of dirty looks for doing exactly what you suggest (and we continue to do).

After travelling with people with a larger stroller that didn't fold well, I started noticing everyone's strollers. I found that I was constantly envious of people who had strollers like the one you're describing.

I think what my DW was trying to say is that there isn't actually all that much abuse going on with rental chairs, but, there are a lot of people assuming that abuse is occurring. When you spend the whole day with people treating you badly because they think you are abusing a support that you actually need, then you start feeling like you shouldn't make it obvious that you can walk when needed. Nonetheless, my DW continues to transfer as much as possible.

 

[Chuck S]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I did understand what you were referring to. I was just pointing out that we get a lot of dirty looks for doing exactly what you suggest (and we continue to do).

After travelling with people with a larger stroller that didn't fold well, I started noticing everyone's strollers. I found that I was constantly envious of people who had strollers like the one you're describing.

I think what my DW was trying to say is that there isn't actually all that much abuse going on with rental chairs, but, there are a lot of people assuming that abuse is occurring. When you spend the whole day with people treating you badly because they think you are abusing a support that you actually need, then you start feeling like you shouldn't make it obvious that you can walk when needed. Nonetheless, my DW continues to transfer as much as possible.

Personally, I don't have a problem with people remaining in their manual wheelchairs and being strapped in. I've been on busses that have had to hit the brakes unexpectedly, or lurched, and I've seen unsecured folded strollers go flying into people. Wheelchairs are substantially heavier, and could cause more injuries than a stroller. So while inconvenient, it seems much safer to actually secure the chair rather than relying on someone to hold onto it.

 

[Schmeck]

Personally, I don't have a problem with people remaining in their manual wheelchairs and being strapped in. I've been on busses that have had to hit the brakes unexpectedly, or lurched, and I've seen unsecured folded strollers go flying into people. Wheelchairs are substantially heavier, and could cause more injuries than a stroller. So while inconvenient, it seems much safer to actually secure the chair rather than relying on someone to hold onto it.

This is a very, very important point - I also feel it is much safer for everyone on the bus if wheelchairs are not folded and held in the aisles. I have had to help transfer wheelchairs at work, and they are heavy, awkward, and difficult to keep in place when folded.

 

[hematite153]

Personally, I don't have a problem with people remaining in their manual wheelchairs and being strapped in. I've been on busses that have had to hit the brakes unexpectedly, or lurched, and I've seen unsecured folded strollers go flying into people. Wheelchairs are substantially heavier, and could cause more injuries than a stroller. So while inconvenient, it seems much safer to actually secure the chair rather than relying on someone to hold onto it.

I definitely see this point and it is part of why I hold the chair instead of my DW. I grew up in a large city and rode the buses and subways through much rougher traffic situations than I have ever experienced at wdw. I learned (through necessity) how to hold heavy objects during rough stops or turns and to stay upright in a fixed position without holding on. On the wdw buses, I usually either have a seat, or, stand directly in front of my DW. Holding on with one hand and keeping a firm grip on the outside edge of the w/c is easy compared to my earlier experiences.

But, anyone who doesn't have similar practice should think through the best option. fyi--I have also seen strollers fly while the chair I was holding didn't budge. In one case, I actually helped a mother catch her child who was flying off the seat without losing control of the w/c I was holding.

 

[SueM in MN]

The rental wheelchairs are quite heavy - upwards of 50 pounds, so holding them on the bus may be a challenge. If someone feels they are able to hold it and wants to fold it, that is their choice. But, if they choose not to, that is their choice too; they may have a physical reason why they feel they can't fold it and hold it.
I personally think it is safer if something that heavy is tied down, but that's my personal opinion.

For ECVs, there are signs on the buses that say people using ECVs should transfer to a bus seat. For one thing, it is easier and faster for the CM to do the tiedown straps on an ECV when it won't be occupied. Also, ECVs have less places to attach the tiedown straps to than a wheelchair does (especially the narrow 3 wheel ECVs), which means that they are less secure, even if the bus driver does everything correctly. There have been reports of occupied ECVs turning over - one DIS poster posted a few months ago about the ECV flipping over.

 

[OneLittleSpark]

This last trip (September just gone) was the first time I started travelling in my wheelchair on the bus. I've got chronic joint pains (suspected Fibro) and had an absolutely dreadful bus ride, that convinced me not to transfer. Though I was at the front of the queue, I decided to transfer to allow a party with a number of ECVs to travel (they had to spilt up, but at least if I transfered one more of them could get on that bus). I folded my chair and held it in front of my knees. Then one of the guys from the ECV party sat down next to me, half on my seat. He stayed their through the whole journey, kicking my chair, ramming it into my already-painful ankles and taking up half my seat so I was twisted at an odd angle. I was in so much pain by the end of the journey that I was on the verge of tears.

Sorry, that wasn't very well phrased. I'm afraid I have a cold, fatigue and brain fog all setting in at once. Fun!

Thankfully we were staying at a fairly quiet time, and hardly ever had another wheelchair user on the bus with us. If there had been two ECVs, or people who couldn't transfer, in line, I would have moved to a regular seat to make room for them. However, as it was, I saw no reason to put myself in unnecessary pain (wrists, ankles and back, mainly), when it could be easily avoided.

Just to be clear, I am in no way shape or form trying to have a go at anyone who's posted here. I can completely understand your frustration if you've had to wait longer because someone refused to transfer. I just wanted to put across another side to things; though I can transfer and hold my chair, doing so can put me in a lot of unnecessary pain. For this same reason, I didn't always transfer at rides that had wheelchair cars; every transfer shortened the amount of time I could spend in the park that day, and there was rarely anyone else in a chair waiting for the ride.

 

[mechurchlady]

I have to agree with Sue and others about staying in a foldable wheelchair. I belong to another site where I have read about the idiots on the WDW roads who do not understand that an SUV let alone a bus can swerve and stop quickly. I have read the stories of busses screaching to a halt and have personally been on an RTD bus where I was thrown hard as the bus stopped and I kept going. It is much safer to have any loose items like a wheel chair strapped down than to have a wheelchair hurting people.

It would be nice to pack a bus but safety comes first. Whenever if ever I get to go to WDW again then I will expect to have to wait for busses as I might be unfotunate enough to be staying where 30 other ECV users are staying. It is part of using busses. It would be nice if we all helped each other but having been hit by packages on the RTD busses and tossed around I would say tie down wheelchairs.

 

[Mermaid_Ariel]

Hi - Just popping in to say hello.

While I was at WDW last week, I noticed a lot of people in manual wheelchairs and ECVs being transferred to another seat. The driver was always helpful about it. To me, it was no big deal and I didn't notice anyone seeming bothered by it. Sometimes the buses were packed and sometimes they weren't.

I just think it's terrible for somebody to be annoyed by it. It's just a shame what little patience people have sometimes.

 

[evenpar4me]

gosh,we were there with two ecvs in sept 07,not a single problem on buses or anywhere else,going back in Jan08,same thing,people cast and patrons alike were very polite.

 

[MonorailGuy]

Sorry, that wasn't very well phrased. I'm afraid I have a cold, fatigue and brain fog all setting in at once. Fun!

I got exactly what you meant. If I see a situation where I am going to take up one and a half seats for any reason, I generally stand. That's what that person next to you should have done. It's not often, but I am big enough to have had it happen a couple times in places with really small seats. Heck, I've even had it happen where I have half my seat taken by someone even bigger than me. So I know what you're talking about, and I'm sorry you had to go through that.

I have to agree with Sue and others about staying in a foldable wheelchair. I belong to another site where I have read about the idiots on the WDW roads who do not understand that an SUV let alone a bus can swerve and stop quickly. I have read the stories of busses screaching to a halt...

What would you say, half those stories are mine? Hi, Churchy!

I couldn't (still can't) understand why I needed to take up an extra seat while the scooter sat there empty. It was tied down...was I really safer sitting in a regular seat than I would have been siiting on the scooter?

Scooter companies require that you move for a multitude of reasons, as do we at Disney World. It is a much bumpier ride than in regular wheelchairs, yes, but much more than that, if a bus has to swerve, or if something big enough sideswipes the bus, or if you lose your balance, it doesn't take long to send you and the chair down, because the center of gravity is very high and the wheelbase is very narrow. Even when strapped down by me, I don't fully trust ECV's not to tip over, especially if I have a person on the ECV. It's very unsafe. If you were to tip over in an ECV on land, that would be bad enough, but on some buses where that means that you are either in a stairwell, or worse, you might push through the doors if you hit them with enough force (it's just air holding them closed, and I've pushed through air doors before) and either of those would most likely be deadly. So that is why we do that. Or actually, now I have to use the term, "they".

I hope that explains it to your needs. Despite the fact it would be nice having that one more seat available, it's not worth the risk. Even if what I explained were to happen to one of the million people we allowed to sit on an ECV aboard a bus in motion (if we did), that would be one in a million way too much.

 

[OneLittleSpark]

I got exactly what you meant. If I see a situation where I am going to take up one and a half seats for any reason, I generally stand. That's what that person next to you should have done. It's not often, but I am big enough to have had it happen a couple times in places with really small seats. Heck, I've even had it happen where I have half my seat taken by someone even bigger than me. So I know what you're talking about, and I'm sorry you had to go through that.

He was one of the ECV drivers, so probably couldn't have stood for the whole journey. He was a slightly larger chap, but the main problem was that he scooted over onto my seat, to make room for someone to sit on the seat on the other side of him . I think he was the same person who, on a later journey when I was staying in my chair, decided to use the push handles on my chair as an extra handrail to get back to his ECV. It really jarred my back (which was having a bad day anyway) and he didn't even acknowledge me . You'd think being in an ECV would give him a little more understanding of those of us with disabilities, but I guess not.

Monorail Guy, thank you for being a magical bus driver (I'm only sorry I didn't get to ride on one of your buses), and have fun on the safari!

 

[Creola]

Scooter companies require that you move for a multitude of reasons, as do we at Disney World. It is a much bumpier ride than in regular wheelchairs, yes, but much more than that, if a bus has to swerve, or if something big enough sideswipes the bus, or if you lose your balance, it doesn't take long to send you and the chair down, because the center of gravity is very high and the wheelbase is very narrow. Even when strapped down by me, I don't fully trust ECV's not to tip over, especially if I have a person on the ECV. It's very unsafe. If you were to tip over in an ECV on land, that would be bad enough, but on some buses where that means that you are either in a stairwell, or worse, you might push through the doors if you hit them with enough force (it's just air holding them closed, and I've pushed through air doors before) and either of those would most likely be deadly. So that is why we do that. Or actually, now I have to use the term, "they".

I hope that explains it to your needs. Despite the fact it would be nice having that one more seat available, it's not worth the risk. Even if what I explained were to happen to one of the million people we allowed to sit on an ECV aboard a bus in motion (if we did), that would be one in a million way too much.

Thank you for explaining it so clearly. I guess I just felt badly that my scooter took up three seats and I took up another when there were so many people standing on the buses. From now on, I promise to feel no guilt!

And, just for the record, every bus driver I "interacted" with was friendly, kind and never made me feel as if I was slowing him up. Granted, some were a lot lot faster tying down the scooter than others! But I was grateful for each and every one of them.