Probably a stupid question

[Sparrow624]

All,

Thank you for the opinions. We are not sure what we are going to do yet, but probably will not buy in unless we can pay for it straight up. Thanks for the "heads up" on resale.

 

[Msmithmd]

Sparrow, this is what I consider a "good thread.". When you get people having a spirited debate on both sides of a concept, that's when the Disboards can teach you something. I for one really like the "no pixie dust" zone. Obviously all of us here are big Disney fans or we wouldn't be here, but it's definitely a good thing to make these kind of purchase decisions with multiple inputs, not motivated by someone trying to sell you something.

I think there are valid points above on both sides of the argument. I'm currently buying resale because I'm frugal and not in a rush to use the membership in the next couple months. But I applaud several of the posters who have wanted it "right now.". There's still a savings to be had buying retail, so long as you don't add usurious interest charges to it.

I'd never deeply considered what Dean aptly points out, that without the retail market being a cash cow for the developer, the whole discount resale concept couldn't exist. I just guess those of us buying in now on the secondary market are lucky that so many of those retail buyers have had to reconsider- or else the cost spread between retail and resale would be much narrower. That's how a free market works, after all.

So it isn't the end of the world to buy retail, not by a long shot. It isn't the end of the world to buy a "hot" new car for $2000 over sticker price and to pay the dealer $800 for "scotch gard on the seats" either, I guess- but in both circumstances money could clearly be saved. It's just a matter of how much effort you are willing to put in relative to the cost.

For me, buying 300 points on the secondary market saved $15,000 over current direct prices. That, for me, was worth a whole lot of effort and time. Looks now like the effort was making three offers before one was accepted, and then waiting a couple months for paperwork. While in my professional career I am compensated very well, I certainly haven't gotten this kind of money just for passively waiting a couple months before, and likely won't ever again.

I get that a similar effort/delay wouldn't be such a consideration for 20 or 40 points. So be happy with what you buy, but do consider all your options with eyes wide open before you spend this kind of money. Please.

 

[Dean]

I accualy finance everything . I never intend on going term , and never have . A good example was when I bought my house I got 100% financing . I didnt have 20%, and the money I had would only make a very small dent in the payment so I keept it to use for furnishing ect . Had I waited for the 20% I still wouldn't have a house and ilkely only have 10% . I am so glad I did it . I was not willing to wait ten years . Its just the way I think . I dont think that other ways are wrong .

We are totally opposite and to be honest, I think a lot of people doing the same type of things are a large part of the current financial crisis. My thoughts are that any financing is bad and risky other than possibly a mortgage using Dave Ramsey's definitions (max 80%, 15 yr fixed and no more than 25% of take home). I doubt we'll agree on much and we're both willing to share our views so I'd suspect we'll be each sharing our views on similar such threads for a while.

 

[BestDadEver]

We are totally opposite and to be honest, I think a lot of people doing the same type of things are a large part of the current financial crisis. My thoughts are that any financing is bad and risky other than possibly a mortgage using Dave Ramsey's definitions (max 80%, 15 yr fixed and no more than 25% of take home). I doubt we'll agree on much and we're both willing to share our views so I'd suspect we'll be each sharing our views on similar such threads for a while.

Well I would agree that is a part of the crisis , but only the ones taking advantage of it in my opinion .

When I heard that people just walk away from there homes cause they put no money down makes no sense to me . What about the money they already paid monthly , most have been paying for years . If people would pay there debts it wouldn't contribute to the problem . But there are so many taking advantage of the system

 

[Dean]

Well I would agree that is a part of the crisis , but only the ones taking advantage of it in my opinion .

When I heard that people just walk away from there homes cause they put no money down makes no sense to me . What about the money they already paid monthly , most have been paying for years . If people would pay there debts it wouldn't contribute to the problem . But there are so many taking advantage of the system

IMO, anyone financing 100% of a house is taking advantage but with great risk. I believe it's inappropriate for both the buyer to accept the choice and financial institutions to allow it. You haven't been here that long but if you go back and read my post over the years you'll see I'm a big believer in personal responsibility. Mostly the thread's you see me participate in will be those of technical issues, buying, DVC usage (esp rules and legalities), exchanging and where philosophy comes into play including honesty. For example, I see going over occupancy without getting permission from DVC as dishonest. I'm sure most people who had debt issues didn't expect to or could "afford it" at some point. Life happens. My guess is you have a fairly substantial income and that you can weather making choices that increase your risk and cost as long as you have that income. Heaven forbid life happens in such a way that you don't have that income anymore.

 

[marynvince]

Yes disney will finance the purchase , the rate is really not bad , or good , its on par for the going rate on personal loans . They also state that they don't report the debt , and it wont show on your credit report . At least that's what I was told , I really don't belive it though .

Not a matter of belief but a matter of fact. Run your credit report and You'll see it does NOT show up.

 

[crisi]

No you are missing the point . There are no other options . I agree with your point . But the fact remains that disney is smart, and know that no one is going to finance potential buyer for less . So they charge what they charge .

I am guessing none if you ever bought a brand new car either.

FYI I live my life in the now . And any interest payed is well worth the money vs the wait .

Several new cars. With cash. My second HOUSE purchased with cash (I then took out a mortgage because interest is so low and the tax advantages make it more advantageous to invest the money than have a mortgage.) Two middle school kids with fully funded college accounts (for State schools living on campus). And if I stopped investing in my 401k today, when I retire (over 20 years from now), I'd still have enough to live on - even if Social Security fails).

I also live my life now - but I don't borrow from tomorrow to do so. For me, any waiting is well worth the peace of mind in the future.

This didn't happen overnight. And it only happened by living beneath my means and being very conscious about things like interest. That doesn't mean that I didn't live my life during those years, just that my enjoyments were more affordably modest.

Frankly, this is a Disney board....the implication that financially conservative people here "don't live their lives" is ridiculous. Or that people can't afford new cars on cash (there are some fairly well off people on this board). Everyone here vacations. And if you bought DVC, it shows that you are planning on continuing to vacation. Being able to afford that when you retire in this era means you have to be financially conservative today - or be independently wealthy out of the gate.

 

[BestDadEver]

IMO, anyone financing 100% of a house is taking advantage but with great risk. I believe it's inappropriate for both the buyer to accept the choice and financial institutions to allow it. You haven't been here that long but if you go back and read my post over the years you'll see I'm a big believer in personal responsibility. Mostly the thread's you see me participate in will be those of technical issues, buying, DVC usage (esp rules and legalities), exchanging and where philosophy comes into play including honesty. For example, I see going over occupancy without getting permission from DVC as dishonest. I'm sure most people who had debt issues didn't expect to or could "afford it" at some point. Life happens. My guess is you have a fairly substantial income and that you can weather making choices that increase your risk and cost as long as you have that income. Heaven forbid life happens in such a way that you don't have that income anymore.

Your are right but . I can't live in that fear of loosing my job , and putting my life on on hold .

Also I blam the banks for the problem , cause they were the ones giving the loans to people that they knew couldnt pay them

 

[MsTessP]

Here's the mistake we made: We were waiting for a crazy amount of years to be able to buy a cash retail purchase what I thought we needed for points (320 at BWV or OKW). Because that consitituted such a considerable amount of money, we have waited years to do so. It was just such a hard pill to swallow to pay over $35,000 to Disney for that amount of points. Keep in mind that we would never have considered financing.

One day I thunked myself on the head and realized I should just buy RESALE for less amount of points and we could always add more points later. After a couple of phone calls, a timeframe of 7 weeks, and a savings of thousands, we were members. Now that we are actually working with this amount of points, we are realizing that we can probably get by with far fewer points. We are very, very happy that things worked out the way they did for us. I just wish we had thought of this sooner (these boards were instrumental in our decision - thanks!)

My advice for anyone is not to buy DVC if you do not have the readily-available cash for purchase. As many have pointed out, purchasing DVC is just the beginning of the expense. There will still be travel costs, ticket purchases, meals, etc., each and every trip you take. Most importantly, you will still have those increasing member fees each and every year.

I'm concerned about folks who finance their DVC purchase, then rack up huge credit card charges for trips that they feel they must take because they "own DVC." Although I'm sure there are people who financed DVC that would never do this, the ones who do are taking on a lot of needless debt in this shaky economy, IMO.

 

[BestDadEver]

Several new cars. With cash. My second HOUSE purchased with cash (I then took out a mortgage because interest is so low and the tax advantages make it more advantageous to invest the money than have a mortgage.) Two middle school kids with fully funded college accounts (for State schools living on campus). And if I stopped investing in my 401k today, when I retire (over 20 years from now), I'd still have enough to live on - even if Social Security fails).

I also live my life now - but I don't borrow from tomorrow to do so. For me, any waiting is well worth the peace of mind in the future.

This didn't happen overnight. And it only happened by living beneath my means and being very conscious about things like interest. That doesn't mean that I didn't live my life during those years, just that my enjoyments were more affordably modest.

Frankly, this is a Disney board....the implication that financially conservative people here "don't live their lives" is ridiculous. Or that people can't afford new cars on cash (there are some fairly well off people on this board). Everyone here vacations. And if you bought DVC, it shows that you are planning on continuing to vacation. Being able to afford that when you retire in this era means you have to be financially conservative today - or be independently wealthy out of the gate.

Thats great I am happy for you . But unless you make a really large amount of money I am willing to bet you didnt do much for more then a decade . I am not willing to wait that long .

Although I would love to be in that position and hope to be .

 

[belias21]

Whenever a thread opens up with the question about money, I always enjoy sitting back and watching the ensuing arguments...

 

[Sparrow624]

All,

Thank you for the help. This thread has gone WAY off track. I was simply asking about the financing and if it were possible. Thanks for exposing me to resale. As for the rest, I don't think a financial debate is necessary.

 

[Msmithmd]

Welcome to DISboards.

 

[crisi]

Thats great I am happy for you . But unless you make a really large amount of money I am willing to bet you didnt do much for more then a decade . I am not willing to wait that long .

Although I would love to be in that position and hope to be .

We did plenty, but we did it with cash, and cash left over. We've always lived in less house than "we could afford," driven cheaper cars than "we could afford." Been frugal shoppers. And avoided debt. I shouldn't say always - my husband once declared bankruptcy before we were married, and I came close when I divorced my first husband - but that was long ago - we didn't want to expose kids to that sort of stress.

We do have two professional incomes in our house.

If you want to be in that position someday, you can't hand over 14% interest in the interest of "not wanting to wait" - you have to be willing to make trades now to get it. That doesn't mean no fun, ever, but that means that if that sort of financial security is important to you, you bid for a timeshare in Orlando on Skyaction rather than tying up money in DVC. It means that being able to gratify your needs tomorrow has to be as important - or more important - than gratifying them today.

If it isn't, don't bother - and that is fine, everyone has different priorities. But don't assume that everyone else here takes out car loans because we have the same impatience. Some of us have chosen to worry about losing our jobs and want to make sure that if that happens, our kids won't suffer for it by losing their home. If that means my kids have only been to WDW seven times during their thirteen and fourteen years of life, well - I suppose they are just disadvantaged children.

 

[ELMC]

Whenever a thread opens up with the question about money, I always enjoy sitting back and watching the ensuing arguments...

With all due respect, I don't think that there are arguments. The issue of financing is an important one and there are clearly different ways of looking at it. Sharing one's opinion and listening to differing opinions is engaging in debate, and as long as it is respectful, I think it's a good thing.

All,

Thank you for the help. This thread has gone WAY off track. I was simply asking about the financing and if it were possible. Thanks for exposing me to resale. As for the rest, I don't think a financial debate is necessary.

I'm sorry if you feel that the thread has gotten off track. It's the nature of message boards; threads seem to take on a life of their own. As far as a financial debate being unnecessary, I respectfully disagree. The Purchasing DVC board is a "no pixie dust" zone. This means that you are going to hear honest opinions about all aspects of a topic, and sometimes it's not pretty. When you ask about buying direct for the "perks", you are going to hear that they are not guaranteed and are often more expensive than paying cash. Whey you ask about buying off site because it is less money initially, you're going to hear about the risk you run about not being able to get any on site availability at the 7 month window during certain times of the year. And when you ask about financing, you are going to hear about the inner workings and negative aspects of financing direct purchases. I'm sorry if that upsets you, but the posters in this thread post with the best of intentions and they say the things that Disney won't and others are afraid to talk about.

 

[Sparrow624]

At no point am I or was I saying that I am upset. Simply that the thread has gotten off track. The/my original question was simply asking what ALL of the ways people afford the initial down payment are. If people want to take the thread into different directions, that is fine. While I agree that a discussion of finances is fine, it appears to be growing into "more" than a discussion here.

People choose all sorts of things. Some pay up front for Christmas presents...others use "layaway," while others have no issue breaking out the credit card...to each their own. I am simply curious about the options.

 

[DougEMG]

People choose all sorts of things. Some pay up front for Christmas presents...others use "layaway," while others have no issue breaking out the credit card...to each their own. I am simply curious about the options.

With the hundreds of thousands of DVC members I'm betting that if you can think of a way to pay/finance a DVC purchase, someone has probably done it.

 

[Dean]

Your are right but . I can't live in that fear of loosing my job , and putting my life on on hold .

Also I blam the banks for the problem , cause they were the ones giving the loans to people that they knew couldnt pay them

That's just it, I think normal people with normal incomes can do this without financing. It simply takes some budgeting, goal setting, effort and living within your means. I thought you were advocating personal responsibility, if so, the individual has to be responsible for their own actions no matter how reasonable, the bank is only the source of their folly. Not that the banks (and government that forced many of the loans) don't have their own responsibilities in this, two wrongs don't make a right but issue number one has to go to the individual that made the choice and sought out someone to finance for them.

 

[JimMIA]

At no point am I or was I saying that I am upset. Simply that the thread has gotten off track. The/my original question was simply asking what ALL of the ways people afford the initial down payment are. If people want to take the thread into different directions, that is fine. While I agree that a discussion of finances is fine, it appears to be growing into "more" than a discussion here.

People choose all sorts of things. Some pay up front for Christmas presents...others use "layaway," while others have no issue breaking out the credit card...to each their own. I am simply curious about the options.

I personally agree with you, but once we start a thread on a discussion board, it goes where it goes. Sometimes it seems to the OP that what is being posted is not relevant -- and it might not be to the original question. But seemingly irrelevant posts might be VERY relevant to some reader.

As I post, there are 57 posts on this thread and 2,148 "views." That means that there are almost 40 "looks" for every post. When we post, we have to be aware of the fact that there are hundreds of readers who will never post to this particular thread. But they are reading -- and gleaning information (correct or incorrect). The more discussion there is, the easier it is for them to sift out the silly opinions and give more weight to the sensible ones.

So a thread that goes off course still has value, unless it just devolves into a bodily function "contest," in which case the mods will shut it down.

 

[marynvince]

you'll also find that no matter the post, frequent responders will find a way to post their same opinion no matter the degree of relevance. Reading these boards on a daily basis you spot patterns relatively quickly. Its actually disappointing the lack of growth, change or acceptance to others points of view that emerge. I think that some posters look for affirmation of the choices they have made. While questions that are posited are open to response, it is the responses to those responses that are often overly critical.