Priority Seating: It has to change.

[civileng68]

empty tables are NOT HELD for PS reservations....

Addressing this specifically.........................no empty tables are not HELD for PS's but here's what you must know.

First of all, the table is empty because the PS didn't show. So you'd think that they'd allow walk-in's right?

Well the problem is that the walk-ins that came up 20 minutes earlier were turned away BECAUSE the restaurant was BOOKED on PS's. Disney claims to not hold any tables for PS's, yet in reality they do. They claim they don't but if that's the case then why do they not allow walk-ins when they are booked with PS's?

If they were booked with PS's and still did NOT hold tables, then if I walked up without a PS, they'd put me on the list to be taken wouldn't they? They won't even put you on the list if they are booked with PS's, so why they want to stay "technically" away from the reservation title, they do fit in that category, though they are not a full-blown reservation as they do not require deposits on the spot.

 

[civileng68]

That is an incredibly broad generalization that I don't believe holds true. It's probably a small minority that acts in inconsiderate, greedy ways that tends to taint the experience and memory for many.

you're actually VERY right on this one. I'm glad you corrected me on it, because I do agree. In business it even rings true. 1 in 50 happy customers calls to tell you "thank you" but 1 in 10 angry customers call to tell you they are upset, which makes it seems as though everyone is upset.

you are exactly right!

 

[Acklander]

I think the same people who complain about an hour wait because they don't have a PS/AR are the same people we Fastpass experts blow past in the standby line. There is a large number of people who don't utilize Disney's perks to their fullest. But those same people also don't spend the time researching and planning, so I can't say I feel sorry for them. .

I disagree with this completely. I'm probably one of those people you blow past with your fast pass while I'm in the standby line. It's not because I don't utilize Disney's perks to the fullest; it's because I usually will get a fast pass for a ride I really enjoy, and then go stand in the stand-by line for the exact same ride. By the time I'm finished the first time thru, I'm usually ready for my second ride on it. While I'll make some A/R for the occasional "must do" meals, I'm perfectly happy winging it for the remainder of the meals without any problems. It's not that I haven't done research or planning; it's just that I have a different vacation style than many of the planners on this board do.
I think the current system is just fine, and seems to work in a way that Disney isn't losing out on restaurant sales. If they were, they would change the system.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

C'MON! Why are we playing dumb here? First of all, I don't even need to do the research. Just talk to people on here. Many people you talk to JUST ON THESE BOARDS will ADMIT it to you!

Ancedotal evidence doesn't replace solid research. I would be very skeptical about policy/business changes based on feedback on an Internet forum.

Also to other posters, regardless of what Disney has said they will do, or what they've done in the past (trust me they've told me they take walk-ins for PS no shows), they DONT or HAVEN'T BEEN taking walk-ins for PS no-shows. They simply tell people they dont take walk-ins. The only way you MAY get in is if you showed up JUST at the time someone else with a PS didn't.

Of course, this policy may vary depending on park attendance, time of the year, restaurant capacity and staffing. I doubt Disney has established a one-size-fits-all "no walk-ups" policy for their restaurants. Disney is simply not that dumb.

Again, this isn't a big problem with the more popular restaurants as most people show, but it IS a problem as less popular restaurants. However that's where the problem lies, those same people who ARE going to the popular restaurant PS's are the same one's with PS's at the lesser popular one's and NOT showing up keeping us from even being able to go THERE when the popular one's are full.

This conclusion is based on what evidence? It seems like a lot of this argument is based solely on speculation and a few "confessions" on this thread.

 

[civileng68]

I think the current system is just fine, and seems to work in a way that Disney isn't losing out on restaurant sales. If they were, they would change the system.

I was to address this issue as well. Many people think the above rings true, but NOT EXACTLY.

Here's what I mean: Disney walks a fine line in terms of Public Relations. Disney has choices, some of which are 2 evils and they just have to decide which one does less damage.

I think Disney DOES lose money on PS's in the current form and THEY KNOW IT. I think changes ARE coming, but they don't always come right away as they do research many times over the course of a year and compare to the previous year's numbers. Most corporate economics and finances are done on a rolling 12 month cycle.

Let's say Disney removed all Ps's because people didn't show and they were losing money on them. Let's say they made it all "stand-by". Here's why they may avoid this as it may cost them MORE money.

1)In stand by, the lists get VERY long. People often have a tendancy to show up, put their name on the list, then see how long it is, and without removing their name, walk off to wait, only to never return. THEN, newer people coming up see how long the list is, and just walk away, never to put their name on the list. Now the same thing has just happened, NO SHOWS. The number of people waiting discourages new people from waiting.

2)If you did decide to wait in a stand=by line, you are spending time waiting in a line when you could be shopping in the stores waiting for you PS to arrive. Even though you may show up to your meal, Disney has lost money in their merchandise department by spending "non" profitable time in line to eat. Im sure Disney compares the cost benefit analysis. Im sure they think "we make "X" dollars from them eating, but by their waiting, and not spending money elsewhere, we actually lose profit and only make "X" dollars.

So technically just because they dont make as much money by people abusing the PS system, it doesn't mean that it's not happening. It simply means that the other obvious form will cause an even bigger problem and therefore the cost benefit is to stay with the current system until a better solution is found.

I think the reason it takes so long for them to make changes is because they research everything for so long before making the changes. I think instead of dropping the PS system, they are going to have to modify it in some way, but their challenge is to do it and not create just another problem or create a Public Relations slip.

 

[Acklander]

I've been saying this for years. The PS system is virtually worthless for us. We wait the same for restaurants usually whether we have a PS or not. PS's need to be actual held tables for parties. And there has GOT to be a penalty of some sort for people who don't show up without cancelling first.

But that's why they swapped to the PS system in the first place. They used to hold tables for those with reservations but were able to serve less people. Figure if all the reservations had a 15 minute wait in between them, since you can't tell exactly when the finished diners are going to leave (some are fast, some drag it out) and don't know when the new are going to arrive (some arrive a few minutes early, some a few minutes late) Add in a few no-shows and you end up with tables sitting empty and guests going hungry. While the P/S isn't perfect, and may be a little bit harder to work around - it really does seem to be the fairest way to make sure that as many people is served as possible, with the advantage going to those who book first.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

What harm would there be in making guarenteed reservations using a credit/debit card to hold it? I fail to see why there is such resistance. It's the basic evolution of taking a good plan, PS, and making it better, guarenteed reservations.
If we used the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality, we'd still be living in caves and preparing lunch by chucking rocks at prehistoric squirrels. As popular sayings go, "Ain't broke, don't fix" is one of the worst. It exemplifies a worthless, defeatist mentality.

 

[civileng68]

Ancedotal evidence doesn't replace solid research. I would be very skeptical about policy/business changes based on feedback on an Internet forum. Of course, this policy may vary depending on park attendance, time of the year, restaurant capacity and staffing. I doubt Disney has established a one-size-fits-all "no walk-ups" policy for their restaurants. Disney is simply not that dumb.
This conclusion is based on what evidence? It seems like a lot of this argument is based solely on speculation and a few "confessions" on this thread.

Well just as Im sure you've done in your life, I'm sure you've made correct assumptions by your experiences without having research at your hands. Just because you don't have the research doesn't mean it isnt' true.

I dont do the research because I dont work for Disney. Even when research is done, I likely will never see the results of it, but only the changes, and even with the changes, due to P.R. Disney is likely to never shed light on the real reason changes were made.

Also, I go to Disney about once per month and can tell you that my own personal experiences over a long period of time have convinced myself of the problem. This seems to be a real problem when the parks are very busy. In late March, which was as bad as the 4th of July week, if not worse, the same problems happened. I think the abuse happens everyday, all year, but the problem isn't as noticeable in lesser busy times as PS's are still available. The problem becomes evident when it's busy and PS's are booked.

Also, in many cases "where there's smoke, there's fire", and chances are, (no I dont have proof, but you don't always need proof to make an informed assumption) if there's people on here admitting that they take advantage of the system flaw, that many people do elsewhere.

Think of this.........each restaurant can only sit so many people per hour. Let's say it's Garden Grill and can only sit 30 family's at a time and they reserve the PS's in hour increments, if 10 people reserve the 4:00 hour (ONLY 10 PEOPLE IN ALL OF WALT DISNEY WORLD!) made duplicate Ps's for that hour, and didn't show, that's 10 families that are not getting a seat, and that's just for that hour. While Garden Grill is more popular, think of how that can affect less popular restaurants where people are much more likely to skip out on.

 

[eeyore0062]

Make your PS in advance and you will have no trouble getting them. Holiday weekends are hard on everyone due to crowding, so waiting until the last minute and expecting to be able to get a table won't work. The name of the game is planning and sticking to the plan.

 

[lillygator]

Addressing this specifically.........................no empty tables are not HELD for PS's but here's what you must know.

First of all, the table is empty because the PS didn't show. So you'd think that they'd allow walk-in's right?

Well the problem is that the walk-ins that came up 20 minutes earlier were turned away BECAUSE the restaurant was BOOKED on PS's. Disney claims to not hold any tables for PS's, yet in reality they do. They claim they don't but if that's the case then why do they not allow walk-ins when they are booked with PS's?

If they were booked with PS's and still did NOT hold tables, then if I walked up without a PS, they'd put me on the list to be taken wouldn't they? They won't even put you on the list if they are booked with PS's, so why they want to stay "technically" away from the reservation title, they do fit in that category, though they are not a full-blown reservation as they do not require deposits on the spot.

But I don't think the table is empty because a PS didn't show.....if you don't show for your PS they immediately go to the next PS guest and seat them....I think they overbook knowing that not everyone is going to show....

what were they holding the tables for? Did you ask? (sorry if this has been answered already - it's quite a long and heated thread)

Do we have anyone who actually works there that could explain the whole PS, seating, holding table concepts? I think that would really help...

 

[grimley1968]

Make your PS in advance and you will have no trouble getting them. Holiday weekends are hard on everyone due to crowding, so waiting until the last minute and expecting to be able to get a table won't work. The name of the game is planning and sticking to the plan.

Did you read the OP's original post? He never expected just to get PS's on the fly. Let's stick to the point.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

I don't know. What's your threshold of pain? $50-100 seems to work around here. Of course, the idea behind the penalty is not that WDW is going to get rich on penalizing no-shows. The point is to get the guest to make appropriate reservations for their party, not clog the system with unused PS so others are not able to get them. And if they cannot make the reservation, call and cancel in a timely manner. If you're not sure you can make a time and don't want to pay a penalty, hey, no one's forcing you to reserve a table, walkup and put your name on the list or eat counter service. It's just common courtesy.



Yep.



Who knows...none of us have the hard numbers so it's all up to speculation. The point is that all guests should extend the same amount of courtesy to their fellow guests as they would want themselves. Is that really too much to ask? I have a real problem with those who feel that society needs to cater to the lowest common denominator.

ITA!

And as for why people have a problem understanding this- it's because they don't *want* to. It's simple- if everyone made 3 PS's for every one they needed, there would be 2 UNUSED PS's for every needed one- and a huge clog to the system as you say. Thank god not everyone is doing this! I never knew people actually did this until I read the DIS, but if this is what people are doing, I believe Disney will start to find a way to flush this clog.

And as I said before everyone has their own morals. If someone feels comfortable taking up three AR's/PS's they will continue to do it until Disney stops it.

For one, I would not have a problem with using a cc (or debit) for my reservations, provided they were "guaranteed" at that point. I have used my cc to reserve CRT and an appointment at the spa, as well as the resort and many aspects of the trip itself. They didn't actually charge my cc, but they would have if I did not arrive in a timely fashion or cancel within the specified amount of time. Perfectly reasonable.

 

[lillygator]

Disney claims to not hold any tables for PS's, yet in reality they do. They claim they don't but if that's the case then why do they not allow walk-ins when they are booked with PS's?

How can they? If this were the case I would walk up at my PS time and have a seat right then and there....

 

[lillygator]

ITA!

And as for why people have a problem understanding this- it's because they don't *want* to.

Please....I am not having problems understanding the booking multiple PS...but the fact that people are saying tables are held and a restaurant was half empty due to the fact people made those multiple reservations....

 

[civileng68]

How can they? If this were the case I would walk up at my PS time and have a seat right then and there....

This is why it is different from your standard "reservation" and why they don't call it a reservation.

Here's the difference. If they are NOT fully booked on Ps's they will accept walk-ins, and will NOT hold any tables.

HOWEVER if PS's are COMPLETELY BOOKED they will NOT allow walk-ins , which technically is holding tables and is a reservation, more or less. so technically the PS' situation does change day to day depending on how well they are booked with PS's. There's really no consistency in the whole process, which is also pretty frustrating.

 

[lillygator]

For one, I would not have a problem with using a cc (or debit) for my reservations, provided they were "guaranteed" at that point. I have used my cc to reserve CRT and an appointment at the spa, as well as the resort and many aspects of the trip itself. They didn't actually charge my cc, but they would have if I did not arrive in a timely fashion or cancel within the specified amount of time. Perfectly reasonable.

I agree, I would love to put a cc down to hold my PS, but as I suggested - what would the cancellation policy be? If you still had 24 hours theoretically people could still book multiple PS and then cancel. I would think in order to make the majority happy (well at least on this thread) WDW would need to limit the amount you can make. Then I could see them spilling that off into other areas...ie resort guests etc...

 

[lillygator]

Did you read the OP's original post? He never expected just to get PS's on the fly. Let's stick to the point.

I think we may have all drifted!!!

Thanks everyone for helping keep my mind off this storm!!

 

[civileng68]

Did you read the OP's original post? He never expected just to get PS's on the fly. Let's stick to the point.

Again, thank you. The point was NOT that I expected to get PS that late, but that WHEN I DID GET ONE, I noticed how abused the system was.

My questions were raised when I saw this in March when it was packed and then I felt as if my assumptions may be true after I saw the same on this last trip.

It's not about anyone expecting to get one late, but that the one's that some people make 90 days out are being abused. In situations like these, it doesn't take many to make a mess.

 

[lillygator]

Again, thank you. The point was NOT that I expected to get PS that late, but that WHEN I DID GET ONE, I noticed how abused the system was.

.

That is what I need help with? How did you know it was abuse? I realize people are saying they book multiple ps on threads here, but do you know why it was half empty etc?? I am just asking here...I need the laymans terms.... month end close and my brain is fried (ahh who am I kidding it's fried all the time!)

OT - I am assuming your username is civil engineering right? Did you go to school here in Fl?

 

[civileng68]

That is what I need help with? How did you know it was abuse? I realize people are saying they book multiple ps on threads here, but do you know why it was half empty etc?? I am just asking here...I need the laymans terms.... month end close and my brain is fried (ahh who am I kidding it's fried all the time!)

OT - I am assuming your username is civil engineering right? Did you go to school here in Fl?

Well other posts will explain it more. I go quite often and run a business myself and can tell you that staffing is not an issue in the businest times of the year for any sucessful business. Vacations in companies are planned around the busiest times of year.

I know that PS's were sold out when I went a couple of times, meaning that technically with no PS's available and the restaurant refusing walk-ins that the store should be full of patrons. However when only 50% is filled over 1 1/2 hours, it shows that the turnout is very poor for the PS's. This only seems to happen in the less popular restaurants.

I work for a civil engineering company. I run the communications department in dealing with contractors and the owners of building companies. We mainly are a testing firm who oversees the quality of work that the contracting company is doing in terms of soil and foundation work. We test soil compations, soil quality and "footing" concrete quality and strength.

I went to Duke Univ. in Durham. I double majored in engineering and business management. I got my business management degree from Duke Univ. and engineering from North Carolina State University. I took classes at both simultaneously as both are nearly side by side.