POTC attraction to add Tia Dalma

[KidGoofy]

I dont think it will be that bad...what i am mad about is them losing the parrot at the entrance. I know it was almost a year since they have done this but I miss it.

 

[athenna]

Yeah, I didn't see the point of them getting rid of the parrot, either.

 

[YoHo]

Disneyland still has the parrot. Of course, WDW's Pirates was not nearly as good before the parrot was removed. Almost not even worth talking about.

 

[Ariel Mae]

So applying this logic you would agree that Dumbo, Peter Pan's Flight and Snow White's Adventure shouldn't have been built and oddly enough, stood the test of time, because of a movie tie-in?

No, b/c those were ORIGINALS, CLASSICS, something Walt had a say of some sort in, something Walt would have most likely approved of. They're not redoing (the rides) the movies, they're retelling. Keeping exactly to the plot of the classics, not straying, at all.

They are a re-telling of the movie or a scene from the movie in 3D form. The stories are solid to begin with.

You want to do that with Pirates, ok, take a shot at it either with the current attraction or with a new one. Obviously the movie has a story that appeals to people.

But that's not what they did. They just plunked in a few animatronics, even well done animatronics, and didn't try to really tell any kind of compelling story. They didn't add anything in that regard to the original, they didn't pull a section or moment from the movie and tell it in a 3d form, and they didn't bother to come up with any kind of new, compelling story.

They simply put Johnny Depp's likeness in so they could have Johnny Depp's likeness in. Same with the Davy Jones mist screen.

Well said.

 

[MJMcBride]

The changes were inspired by a movie, which will be forgotten five years from now. ("Lord of the Rings", anyone? The trilogy ended, long ago, and the popularity has since decreased...significantly. "Pirates" is most likely going to be the same fate. Media drives attention only so far. )

huh? LOTR is still hugely popular. They keep re-releasing the movies in different packaging and it sells. TNT plays the movies for whole weekends. And the studio would give Peter Jackson a blank check to do The Hobbit. How is not popular? I understand its not in a theatre but so what? Pirates will always be a popular movie as well. I'm not sure what you're definition is.

 

[EUROPACL]

. And the studio would give Peter Jackson a blank check to do The Hobbit. How is not popular? I understand its not in a theatre but so what? Pirates will always be a popular movie as well. I'm not sure what you're definition is.

New Line and Jackson are currently fighting over money and opening the books for Two Towers and ROTK as Jackson thinks that he is owed more money. So New Line has refused to let Jackson do the Hobbit. The twist is that New Line loses the rights soon...I forget who gets them then, but I'm sure he will end up doing it.

 

[Mickmse2002]

No, b/c those were ORIGINALS, CLASSICS, something Walt had a say of some sort in, something Walt would have most likely approved of. They're not redoing (the rides) the movies, they're retelling. Keeping exactly to the plot of the classics, not straying, at all.

Then you must have been devastated when the PC changes to the ride were implemented because those dramatically changed the plot.

I was mainly addressing your assertion that a movie tie-in was bad. On that point you are flat-out wrong. We can debate whether the quality of the changes are where we'd all like them to be but the movies were tied to the attraction and the attraction is now tied to the movies. I am willing to bet that the ridership on the attraction is up since the most recent changes. Ancedotally I believe it is just from my own experience with the lines.

 

[raidermatt]

The twist is that New Line loses the rights soon...I forget who gets them then, but I'm sure he will end up doing it.

As I understand it, MGM has the distribution rights, New Line the production rights.

You are correct that New Line loses their share of the rights soon, I believe at the end of this year or sometime next year. Again, just my understanding, but I believe they then revert back to that Saul guy, and he could do what he wants with them.

I am willing to bet that the ridership on the attraction is up since the most recent changes. Ancedotally I believe it is just from my own experience with the lines.

I don't doubt that at all. When we were there last July/August, the line sometimes stretched out past the stroller parking, and that's with the outer queue being used. I had never seen that before, though I'm sure it did happen when the ride was newer.

But that is because the changes are new and the films are hot right now. When all is said and done, and we are 5 or 10 years down the road, all that will matter is how good the actual attraction is.

 

[YoHo]

The lines at Disneyland were huge for the first few months and still are on really busy days, but by and large, they've returned to pre-Depp levels. Both sides are regularly open and the queues full.

Also:

Then you must have been devastated when the PC changes to the ride were implemented because those dramatically changed the plot.

Uh, NO. They didn't "Dramatically change the plot." They were kinda stupid and they went for more of a comedic feel, but the plot isn't really changed.


[Tangent] I never understood what the thinking was there anyway. We've just gone through a scene where they're auctioning off women with a busty, slutty redhead who can't wait to be bedded by the pirates, but showing the pirates chasing after women is a nono. [/Tangent]

 

[KPeveler]

I havent seen the new ride (cant wait to go again!!)

But the one thing Walt loved above all else was progress. thats why i dont think he would be upset to see CoP change as it has had. the thing was always about progress in the first place.

walt understands that things must change to keep up with the time. people want to see things they know when they go to the park. people in the 50s knew swiss family robinson, but no one today does. however, they have watched tarzan.

i personally think that as long as you keep the spirit of the rides, then updating them is fine.

 

[raidermatt]

i personally think that as long as you keep the spirit of the rides, then updating them is fine.

I have no problem with that statement.

It's the reasons for the updates, and the subesquent execution that causes issues sometimes.

 

[Ariel Mae]

huh? LOTR is still hugely popular. They keep re-releasing the movies in different packaging and it sells. TNT plays the movies for whole weekends. And the studio would give Peter Jackson a blank check to do The Hobbit. How is not popular? I understand its not in a theatre but so what? Pirates will always be a popular movie as well. I'm not sure what you're definition is.

You rarely hear about it, anymore. It's not as main stream as it once was. "Popular". Media sensationalized. Always appearing, in some form, whether in magazines, word of mouth, billboards, commercials...you just don't see that for "Lord of the Rings" anymore. You never really saw it with "Pirates" either.

The movies haven't been on TNT in quite a few months. The movies may be being re-released, but the hysteria behind it just doesn't exist as it once was. It's more, "Lord of the Rings? Yeah, seen it." rather than, "Lord of the Rings? *Fansqueak*"

 

[Mickmse2002]

I never understood what the thinking was there anyway. We've just gone through a scene where they're auctioning off women with a busty, slutty redhead who can't wait to be bedded by the pirates, but showing the pirates chasing after women is a nono.

I thought I was the only one who didn't understand this.

 

[Keyser]

You rarely hear about it, anymore. It's not as main stream as it once was. "Popular". Media sensationalized. Always appearing, in some form, whether in magazines, word of mouth, billboards, commercials...you just don't see that for "Lord of the Rings" anymore.

This is getting tangential, and basically agrees with what you're saying, but is a slightly different take.

I think there's one big difference between LoTR vs. the Pirates changes being made. With LoTR, the movies do not make the franchise - the books were around (and popular) long before, and will endure far past, the movies. The movies helped make the story more popular, but the underlying story is already there and established. If there were a LoTR attraction already existing, changing the attraction around to reflect the movie would not negate the underlying story of the books. There's a more solid "ground truth" already there.*

With Pirates, though, the attraction is what the movie was based on (barely)! By changing the attraction, you could end up switching things around - making the movie the basis for the attraction. The attraction has been proven to have a popular and long-lasting story - the movie franchise has proved no such thing. And, by making the attraction just an extension of the movie, you thereby weaken the attraction - when the movie fades over time, the attraction might, also.

Not that it can't be "updated". I haven't seen the changes to PoC, but if it were just changing the likenesses of some pirates to match those in the movies, I don't see that as a big deal. And, if they replaced the animatronics with more lifelike ones, that's fine, too (though I expect there would be an uproar among some...). But, when the fundamental story of the attraction itself starts changing, as it seems some of the recent changes have done, that could be a problem.

 

[exDS vet]

So applying this logic you would agree that Dumbo, Peter Pan's Flight and Snow White's Adventure shouldn't have been built and oddly enough, stood the test of time, because of a movie tie-in?

While it's true that Walt's Fantasyland attractions were named after and in some cases retold the stories of his films (slightly), they WERE NOT movie tie-ins. What! you say? Please hear me out on this.

Attractions like Snow White's Adventures, Peter Pan's Flight, Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, Alice In Wonderland, etc. celebrated the films that built Disney. But you can't confuse those rides and their themes with the "enhancements" that were intentionally made to promote a current Disney film. There is a difference between celebrating classic Disney films and promoting new ones.

In the 1950's there were no movie tie-ins to Peter Pan, Alice, Snow White, Dumbo, etc. What was there to tie into? Home video was decades away. Television was new, and these movies only lived on film. They were occasionally re-released in theaters, but those releases were few and far between.

My point is quite simple. You cannot compare what Disney did to POTC to Walt's originaly intentions with his attractions. The argument makes no sense, and is just a way to defend the company's exploitation of their latest "fad" franchise.

I am glad this thread exists because people are starting to see that these changes to classic Disney attractions are not a good idea. I have always said that if the pirates movies were so great, then Disney should, and could be able to justify imagineering a brand new attraction based on the films. Changing the POTC rides just shows that the company does not believe that the films can stand on their own, justifying a new attraction. Or that imagineering can no longer create quality "dark" rides.

Walt Disney's original films are what built Disneyland. Those original attractions from over 50 years ago are still there because of one simple thing. All of those films are enduring classics. Nothing comes close to them. The Pirates movies may be blockbusters, but there is nothing enduring about them. As one poster pointed out, they are forgettable, and will be forgotten after this franchise ends.

The Haunted Mansion was Disney's last great "dark" ride. Nothing has come close to it. From Adventure Thru Inner Space, to Pinocchio, to Superstar Limo and even Buzz Lightyear. The mistakes have ranged from corporate being too cheap to spend the money for a quality ride, to imagineering screwing it up. Now the "S" word is being used to ruin perfectly good attractions. Disney has taken synergy too far. They need to create an original hit, an enduring hit, and then build an attraction that is worthy of such a hit.