POSSIBLE DEBATE: Should parents hit their children in public??

[nemo1987]

my mom used the old fashioned line of "do you have to go to the bathroom??" and we would always say no because if we were bad we had to go to the bathroom to get a spanking. so we learned and always straightened right up to behave. im not one for beating children but if i see a kid in public who is throwing an absolute fit and wont stop screaming whoo-boy if that kid was mine he would so be in the bathroom. oh and off subject but another thing i can't stand is when a kid hits their parent even if it a swat oooohhh they would so get in trouble.
**Sarah**

 

[jrydberg]

I have no problem with a little swat on the butt in public as long as it is appropriate (done for a serious behavior issue, not done out of anger, not done to injure).

I don't have to spank my daughter, but not all kids are the same. Sometimes it's appropriate to do so.

 

[CRSNDSNY]

Originally posted by KathyTX
Hitting children is not discipline- it's abuse.

Disrespectful. Want your child to learn? Talk to them. Hitting tells them violence is okay.

 

[Mskanga]

There's a big difference between discipline and abuse.
I do not consider smacking a kid on the rear after everything else failed , abuse.
The problem in this country is that kids know spanking is illegal and the first thing they tell the parents is touch me and I will call the police , in the meantime that kid can continue to be out of line and there's nothing the parent can do. Time out, punishment by taking things away, talking and all that other stuff does not work for everyone, so I think disciplining should be left to the parents discretion .
Abuse is a whole different story, but to me abuse is someone being belted until they turn blue, punching or beating up.
Heck , my mom used to slap me when I talked back to her ( believe me I deserved it ) , I never knew I was abused but I turned out fine.

 

[meandtheguys2]

Originally posted by CRSNDSNY


Disrespectful. Want your child to learn? Talk to them. Hitting tells them violence is okay.

Just wondering where you get that information. I have never seen a study that confirms any such thing from a child/adult who was spanked. I am not talking about abusive situations.

 

[Lisa F]

We don't have kids yet, but the one thing I've learned from friends with kids is that you can plan all you want and then your children have their own ideas about the way they want to do things. I really really really hope to not have to spank our future children. I hate the idea of it. Frankly, anyone who LIKES the idea of spanking their children needs serious help.

On the other hand, I think a good parent needs to be willing to do whatever it takes to raise a kid who isn't a mouthy, snot nosed little brat. If you're lucky enough to have a kid who responds well to other methods of discipline, great. No one should spank just for the sake of spanking. Sometimes kids don't really respond well to other forms of discipline, though. A friend of mine was very anti-spanking until she had a very physical little boy who doesn't really respond to anything else.

As far as why parents who are "proud" to spank don't do it in public, my guess is that no one is "proud" to have to discipline their kids in ANY way (yeah, people are proud that their kids misbehave). It's kind of a stupid descriptor, actually. I don't think kids should be spanked in public because then it becomes something OTHER than discipline... it becomes a show for a bunch of strangers and a humiliating spectacle for the kid. I don't think that kids should be screamed at in public either, for the same exact reasons.

 

[KimR]

I just wish parents would control their children and I don't care HOW they do it (obviously, I don't condone abuse but a smack on the behind is not abuse, IMO). It sounds terrible to say this, but it's gotten to the point that most of the time I cannot stand to be around other children anymore . I used to go to the gym and watch DD6 while she practiced, but the siblings of the other gymnasts are so out of control I cannot stand more than 10 or 15 minutes in that place. The kids are running around, shrieking at the top of their lungs, swinging swords around, screaming, acting rude, and parents just IGNORE it So now most of the time I just drop DD off and pick her up when practice is over. It's a pain having to drive home then back to the gym and I miss watching DD, but it's an absolute nightmare up there.

And it's not just at the gym - I see this behavior everywhere....grocery stores, restaurants, homes. I went to a birthday party a while back and could not BELIEVE the behavior of those children IN SOMEONE'S HOME! (They were running, screaming, and jumping on the furniture!) and the parents were not batting an eye! It amazes me that parents do not control their children...consideration for others aside, how can they stand living with that behavior themselves?

 

[NMAmy]

Originally posted by Wishing on a star
I thought I had met a potential really good friend once. Until I went to a ladies function at her church (Presbyterian) and it just made me sick to my stomach to sit and listen to all the women try to almost 'brag' about how they spanked their children. "The Bible says to do it, you know" One even stated that she told her little daughter " I do this because God says I should..." What an image of God to instill in tiny children.

When the one woman talked of telling her little daughter this as she put her over her knee for a spanking, all I could think of how maybe there would come a time when she would sit her daughter ON her knee to address any problems/issues, instead of over her knee.

Of course, I did not continue with this friendship. But, I would LOVE the chance to ask these people like this to consider WWJD???

Just for the record, Lisa F, these are the people I was referring to when I used the "stupid descriptor" of proud. Those who brag about spanking their children and are proud of the fact that they do it.

 

[TinkBoo&ElliesMum]

We don't spank/hit around here - I've found that it doesn't do anything but upset them and cause a bigger riff.

I talk and take away things (lack of video games causes a huge change in attitude) DS knows that I'm not kidding, he'll get to the point where he's asking to be spanked instead. Something is going right

Now that Belle is fully into the smart mouth 2 phase we're working on it, she's slowly getting the idea that you don't mess with Mommy.

 

[MosMom]

I guess I just don't understand why it is not okay to hit anyone else in this society except our children.

Your boss can't slap your hands if you make a mistake on a report. That would be against the law. Why is it okay to slap your child of all people?

Hell, people act horrified if people smack their DOG but smacking children is acceptable.

I just want to know why it is not appropriate to hit anyone but people will defend hitting children as okay? We try to teach that violence solves nothing yet we still smack our children.

For people who say "I was spanked a few times and turned out alright". I was abused and turned out alright (somewhat ). That doesn't mean it was okay to do.

 

[oogieboogie]

Originally posted by NMAmy
If you're proud to be a spanker, why not just do it right out in the open?

I'm not proud that I spank my kids. Actually come to think of it, I don't remember the last time I spank them.

But there are situations when spanking is the only way to get the message across to them, especially when they were under 3 yrs old.

My youngest for instance, he is a very stubborn boy. Sometimes time out will not work for him because he'll just stubbornly refuse. Swat him on his butt once and he gets the message. Do I spank repeatly? No. Nor do I spank him at the first infraction. Spanking to me is the last resort when all other methods fail.

Now since my kids are 6 and 3 - the one thing that works is taking their toys/privileges away from them. No TV, no video game, no computers. That hurts them more than spanking ever will. Will I never need to spank? Hopefully not, but they know that I have and I will use it if necessary.

 

[Lisa F]

Originally posted by NMAmy
Just for the record, Lisa F, these are the people I was referring to when I used the "stupid descriptor" of proud. Those who brag about spanking their children and are proud of the fact that they do it.

I didn't mean that you were stupid for using it, just that it's a really stupid thing to feel about spanking. And I was typing quickly, I really meant that normal people won't feel that way. There are all kinds of wackos out there who say and do things that make me wonder what planet they come from.

 

[CRSNDSNY]

Originally posted by meandtheguys2
Just wondering where you get that information. I have never seen a study that confirms any such thing from a child/adult who was spanked. I am not talking about abusive situations.

As a matter of fact, have you ever heard of Skinner and operant conditioning? Perhaps any behavioral theorists?

Some of the disadvantages of punishment are:
- a punished behavior is not eliminated, it is only suppressed

- punishment sometimes leads to an increase in the punished behavior

- punishment often elicits undesirable emotional responses and may lead to escape and avoidance behaviors

- punishment maylead to aggression. When punishment produces pain, it evokes emotional arousal in an individual - arousal that may result in anger an aggression. Aggressive behavior appears to reduce such emotional arousal and, more generally, to 'feel good,' the result being that aggression is reinforced. FURTHERMORE, some forms of punishment provide a model of aggression, thus communicating the message that aggression is acceptable.

- Punishment DOES NOT illustrate the correct behavior

- Severe punishment may cause physical or psychological harm

If you would like, I can cite several scientists, psychologists and behavioral theorists' studies for any of the above. I'd also be happy to elaborate on any of the above. There are plenty of studies out there that prove all of the above.

 

[meandtheguys2]

People have traditionally used spanking as a form of discipline. For good, bad, or other. Since the b-mod craze, time-outs etc, I don't see children behaving in a better way, or with more social responsibility. Best I can tell, society has not improved one lick due to the changes.

FTR, I worked primarily in b-mod residential treatment for kids during the majority of my WOTH years.

 

[septbride2002]

I think at a certain age taking privileges and toys away makes a bigger impression on the child. I think spanking is okay up to a point - if you have spanked your child and they are still doing the behaviour then that did not make an impression and you have to do something else.

My SIL has found that if she taps her son on the hand that gets through more then a spanking. SHe only takes two fingers and taps him and for some reason he gets more upset about that then when she spanks him. Another thing with him is that he gets more upset when other people punish him. For instance we were at our MIL house and he was running non- stop through the house - and no matter how many times we said walk to him he would just smile and take off running. By about the 5 th time of everyone yelling WALK! I walked over to him and picked him up and said, "That's it - it is time for a time out!" He started screaming and yelling wanting his Mom and I took him to a different room and told him to sit and explained that you are in time out because you can't seem to listen to anyone. When you feel you can follow directions then you can come out. His mother didn't want to punish him in front of us so she was just letting him get away with it - drives me crazy! When he came out of time out (10 minutes later) he did not run through the house anymore.

I can remember being spanked 3 times in my life and I know I learned from those times!

Spanking is not abuse and if anyone ever said anything to me in a store I would probably tell them to mind their own business.

~Amanda

 

[oogieboogie]

edited: never mind... found my answer.

 

[meandtheguys2]

Behavior modification. All of the kids in our center were on programs which allowed them to earn various levels of privileges. Worked real well while they were in treatment, not so hot later. They had only changed their behavior for the short time (9-12 months).

 

[Pongo69]

There's a fine line between abuse and discipline as far as I'm concerned.

This reminds me of a woman shopping with her 3 boys and daughter at Super Target in Avon last year.

This girl has a set of lungs that would blow you away. She screamed from one end of the store to the next. I don't know what set her off, but the way she acted was horrible.
She fell out several times kicking and screaming- telling her mom she hated her.

Her little tirade lasted sooo long an off duty Marion County Sherriff Officer who was shopping at the time, store security and the manager approached the mother asking her what the problem was. The mother who had the patience of JOB said she was upset because she wouldn't buy a t-shirt. All the while this girl is screaming at the top of her lungs I kid you not.

I don't know exactly what they said to the mother afterwards, but from her experession you could tell she didn't like it. It was obvious she had no control over this girl. Next thing you know one of the brothers started screaming at the girl he's telling dad when they get home. This girl got up off the floor so fast you would have thought lightening struck her. I guess the dad is the one who shell out the discipline because the mom seem to be clueless the whole time.

When she finally checked out you could tell she was highly pissed due to everyone staring at her,but really what did she expect?

Now if your wondering how I know all of this well I'll tell you I was being VERY VERY NOSEY along with the other shoppers

 

[meandtheguys2]

CRD, just saw your post above mine. I do understand Skinner, but I want a real study on real people. I honestly don't know if there is one, and I am not trying to be difficult!

We do a lot of charts, etc, in this house, but for a few offenses we do spank. I have also been doing a lot of cognitive work with them. I think that a huge issue in society is that children are taught to think in a way that leads to problems.

Michelle

 

[Hillbeans]

You know....


I hate to say this, but the OP who posted this has yet to respond and I did in fact see a post or two the other day from DisneyDiz that was controversial as well.

I'm starting to smell a troll and will no longer respond to this thread.