Poly vs Riviera - Help me spend my money

[Starport Seven-Five]

Maybe, but given the restrictions, it’s much higher than most expected last year,

My point is that people love the resort and what it has to offer. They are buying it direct, and resale for a decent amount,

Again, for owners who have points that trade, getting it for less than direct to stay there is worth it for many.

Last year, I said I wouldn’t buy resale for $50/point. Now, I would if I can get it around $120 because I absolutely love the place and have only visited.

That's a heavy curve to grade on.

I don't think we have enough resale data yet to see where it will really settle. I just have a feeling it will be closer to SSR/OKW prices than most expect because the buyer pool for Riviera will be much smaller (if you're only going to own 1 resale contract... it is highly unlikely to be Riviera) and there are a lot of points out there.

When it was under construction I was telling DH about the rumored theme and amenities and such and he flat out said he didn't care. This resort had all the things we were looking for and isn't as stuffy as VGF and has a longer contract than BCV. I do like the more streamlined aesthetic though I do find the furniture in the lobby to be an odd choice. Yes, the lobby is small, but I can honestly say the grandness of the lobby does not affect my vacation at all. I don't care what the lobby looks like when i'm playing with the kids on the pool slide.

It's funny because while this shouldn't, the lobby greatly impacts my opinion of resorts. I want to be wowed when I walk through the door and Riviera's lobby looks closer to a Marriott/Hilton property than what we have seen in recent years out of Disney.

 

[Sandisw]

That's a heavy curve to grade on.

I don't think we have enough resale data yet to see where it will really settle. I just have a feeling it will be closer to SSR/OKW prices than most expect because the buyer pool for Riviera will be much smaller and there are a lot of points out there.


It's funny because while this shouldn't, the lobby greatly impacts my opinion of resorts. I want to be wowed when I walk through the door and Riviera's lobby looks closer to a Marriott/Hilton property than what we have seen in recent years out of Disney.

I definitely think it will settle lower. I am just saying none of us really thought it would ever sell for more than $100.

It simply means that many people see it as a a great place, willing to overlook the restrctions,

As I posted, I went for a few visits during my recent trip and think it is a beautiful place, the perfect style, subtle Disney, and quaint.

But, BLT and VGF are my other favorites. I just think people either love or hate it, like every other resort out there, and baed on sales so far, it is appealing to buyers enough.

If the choice is between RIV and Poly...i have stayed at both, a RIV wins.

 

[BruinEd03]

Husband and I are looking to buy our first DVC contract. Early 30s, no kids (and no plans for any), 6 hour drive from Disney. Will probably resell eventually as we won’t be passing it down, but who knows. Maybe we keep it forever.

Our preference is to buy direct in order to secure a fixed week contract. We are big runDisney fans and want to do a FW contract that lines up with the wine and dine race first week of Nov. This will likely be our main trip every year, even if we aren’t running. The option to stay at any future resorts and the blue card are a bonus of buying direct but the draw here is the FW.

Option 1: Poly.
Lake view room is 168 points which isn’t really a premium anymore. The point chart for the FW contract purchase is based on when the resort opened. They have since reshuffled the points and it’s now 167 to stay there regularly anyway. So will get to use a FW without having to pay the point premium. Love the idea of watching fireworks from the balcony. Two showers is a big plus for race weekends. My parents are retired military and stay at shades, making bigger family trips easier should we switch up dates or they come along. The race starts from TTC so could walk to the start and would take the monorail from both the finish and the runner’s after party. The big con is that it’s 42k + closing costs. This assumes current rewards and rounding up to 175 points. Also, we won’t *always* be doing the wine and dine race.

Option 2: Riviera
I hate that the resale value is so uncertain. The fact that it is locked down to a resale buyer seems like a huge factor. My first thought was that buying river is was crazy town. That being said, the skyliner is realllllly nice. We are generally Epcot and festival people, so the location is great for us. Also, the races end at Epcot (and the after party is at Epcot) so the skyliner would still be a great option during race weekend. The preferred room would be around the same 168 point purchase (155ish normally - so would have a point usage premium unlike poly). Would round to 175 for purchasing. Cost is considerably less at 32k + disney covers closing with current incentives. Also, we would care less about a preferred room at Riviera so would consider doing FW standard, lowering the cost even more. Or we could buy more points on a separate contract and keep the same overall cost.

Option 3: we’re crazy for buying direct at all and need to give up the idea of FW.

Also of note, We are in no rush to buy. We could buy now (with the incentives) or we could wait. We have a trip in Jan booked but won’t be back until wine and dine of 2021.

Thoughts?

Just a crazy thought. Make 2 purchases:

1.) Purchase a fixed week Riviera using FW standard, which would probably be about 150 points. That would still be in the same incentive tier. The total cost would be approx. 28k. That's a 14k savings from Poly.

2.) Then take that 14k, and use it to purchase 100 points resale for Poly. Every other year, bank your points in Poly and see if you can get a room at Poly during the 11 month mark for the runDisney dates that you want. If you can't, use the points for a different stay.

Pros: The total price is the same as the Poly, you get the Blue Card, and you get the opportunity to stay at Poly every other year or so, but get a guaranteed week at Riviera.

Cons: You will have to pay more maintenance fees as you will have more points. You will also have to do more work to get a runDisney week.

If you're interested in that, I would do the Riviera purchase on Nov. 2 or 3, then see if they come out with better incentives after Nov. 4.

 

[Mumof4mice]

Husband and I are looking to buy our first DVC contract. Early 30s, no kids (and no plans for any), 6 hour drive from Disney. Will probably resell eventually as we won’t be passing it down, but who knows. Maybe we keep it forever.

Our preference is to buy direct in order to secure a fixed week contract. We are big runDisney fans and want to do a FW contract that lines up with the wine and dine race first week of Nov. This will likely be our main trip every year, even if we aren’t running. The option to stay at any future resorts and the blue card are a bonus of buying direct but the draw here is the FW.

Option 1: Poly.
Lake view room is 168 points which isn’t really a premium anymore. The point chart for the FW contract purchase is based on when the resort opened. They have since reshuffled the points and it’s now 167 to stay there regularly anyway. So will get to use a FW without having to pay the point premium. Love the idea of watching fireworks from the balcony. Two showers is a big plus for race weekends. My parents are retired military and stay at shades, making bigger family trips easier should we switch up dates or they come along. The race starts from TTC so could walk to the start and would take the monorail from both the finish and the runner’s after party. The big con is that it’s 42k + closing costs. This assumes current rewards and rounding up to 175 points. Also, we won’t *always* be doing the wine and dine race.

Option 2: Riviera
I hate that the resale value is so uncertain. The fact that it is locked down to a resale buyer seems like a huge factor. My first thought was that buying river is was crazy town. That being said, the skyliner is realllllly nice. We are generally Epcot and festival people, so the location is great for us. Also, the races end at Epcot (and the after party is at Epcot) so the skyliner would still be a great option during race weekend. The preferred room would be around the same 168 point purchase (155ish normally - so would have a point usage premium unlike poly). Would round to 175 for purchasing. Cost is considerably less at 32k + disney covers closing with current incentives. Also, we would care less about a preferred room at Riviera so would consider doing FW standard, lowering the cost even more. Or we could buy more points on a separate contract and keep the same overall cost.

Option 3: we’re crazy for buying direct at all and need to give up the idea of FW.

Also of note, We are in no rush to buy. We could buy now (with the incentives) or we could wait. We have a trip in Jan booked but won’t be back until wine and dine of 2021.

Thoughts?

I vote Option 3 - Poly resale.

You don't need FW to reliably book Poly (both SV and LV) at 11 months. Even if you occasionally have to settle for SV, most of them overlook lush gardens or the Oasis pool and have great views. I've found Poly studios by far the easiest to book, out of the MK resorts. I suspect this is because a lot of Poly owner trade out when they need bigger rooms.

Poly could currently be had at $130ish. It's gorgeously themed, and has the most convenient overall location, soon walkable to MK!

 

[davidl81]

I can’t stress enough how perfect poly is for race weekends. You just walk up to the corrals from the hotel. You legit get like an hour more sleep before the race staying at poly versus a hotel you need to take the bus for. I would not do FW since at 11 months even on race weekends you will have no issues getting Poly rooms.

 

[striker1064]

I can’t stress enough how perfect poly is for race weekends. You just walk up to the corrals from the hotel. You legit get like an hour more sleep before the race staying at poly versus a hotel you need to take the bus for. I would not do FW since at 11 months even on race weekends you will have no issues getting Poly rooms.

Yep, I agree with this. I reread this thread again and I think you should opt for PVB resale. That way you can go to any race you want if you ever decide to do other races, and you can walk to the starting line rather than deal with a bus. We stayed at PVB once for a race and it was wonderful.

 

[Onceuponamarathon]

You didn't say in your statement though about never blue card you stated "never-Riv". Which is exactly the math that I showed you the comparison between RIV and POLY both direct and how much less RIV would need to be on the resale market to not have you come out ahead when selling.

As far as the blue card vs resale if they are getting APs every year or every other year than it will save them money in the long term as well. If you are not getting APs for the discount than you can remove that from a positive aspect of going direct and its really down to the fixed week. You need to do the math, see the breakeven, and see if its "worth it to you".

The OP even stated


Meaning they likely go multiple times of year (or think about it) and being 6 hours away having the APs may be more of a benefit with additional weekend trips leveraging the APs.

Gold Pass was $719/person (have to see when it comes back). Their tickets in November (for their fixed week) would be around $565/person (without a park hopper) lets add in a 3 day park hopper weekend in June 2021 for another $453 and we are up to $1018/person. So that's roughly $600 for the first year and after renewals on the Gold Passes drop to $632 in year 2 (AP renewal rate) they would then be saving $772 per year.

Now doing very rough math:
Resale POLY @$135/point for 175 points (you are not getting exactly 168) would make it out to be $23.6k
Direct RIV @187/point for FW of 165 points (if they did Preferred View) would make it around $30.5k (8-10 year breakeven)
Direct RIV @187/point for FW of 130 points (since they don't care if they have Preferred) would make it around $24.3k (1 year breakeven)

So even with 2 people that don't plan on any children will make the math work out depending on how often they need APs. They are also younger and potentially can get a full 50 years out of the DVC direct benefits whatever those may be long term.

Edit: This is all moot if they are a FL resident and can get Gold APs.

Thank you so much for the math and insights!

For reference - We are not FL residents, so we do not have the ability to get the gold pass (DVC benefits aside). It is relatively easy for us to pop down for a long weekend, and we take longer trips for races or holidays. I'm thinking 2-3 times a year is likely, but if we skip a year that's fine too. We are fortunate in that we can be pretty flexible with travel times.

The reason we're interested in Direct vs Resale is 1. the AP discount (which I know isn't guaranteed) and 2. ability to book any future resort. My spouse is very much a hotel/resort person and it's a deal breaker to be locked into the original 14 resorts, or into only 1 of the new resorts. The resorts themselves (and the nice rooms) are as much of a draw as going to the parks for him. For our first initial (and likely largest total point purchase), we figure we should do direct and lock in the benefits as this is important to us. For any add on contracts direct vs. resale will matter less.

I won't rehash the original post (pros and cons of each resort). We LOVE Poly, and it fits our needs in many ways, but I question if it's the best home DVC resort for us (due to the price and room limitations). RIV seems like it would be our style, and could also fit our needs, but we've never been.

The hubby and I booked a last minute room at RIV this weekend to stay and check it out. If we love it, I think that will be home and we can always book Poly 7 months out to change it up.

 

[TinkB278]

Thank you so much for the math and insights!

For reference - We are not FL residents, so we do not have the ability to get the gold pass (DVC benefits aside). It is relatively easy for us to pop down for a long weekend, and we take longer trips for races or holidays. I'm thinking 2-3 times a year is likely, but if we skip a year that's fine too. We are fortunate in that we can be pretty flexible with travel times.

The reason we're interested in Direct vs Resale is 1. the AP discount (which I know isn't guaranteed) and 2. ability to book any future resort. My spouse is very much a hotel/resort person and it's a deal breaker to be locked into the original 14 resorts, or into only 1 of the new resorts. I resorts themselves (and the nice rooms) are as much of a draw as going to the parks for him. For our first initial (and likely largest total point purchase), we figure we should do direct and lock in the benefits. Any add on contracts direct vs. resale will matter less.

I won't rehash the original post (pros and cons of each resort). We LOVE Poly, and it fits our needs in many ways, but I question if it's the best home DVC resort for us (due to the price and room limitations). RIV seems like it would be our style, and could also fit our needs, but we've never been.

The hubby and I booked a last minute room at RIV this weekend to stay and check it out. If we love it, I think that will be home and we can always book Poly 7 months out to change it up.

Can’t wait to hear what you think of RIV!

 

[Onceuponamarathon]

You have retired military in the family so let me offer my 2 cents opinion in honor of their service.

I just bought a PVB contract (Poly) resale buy - not direct.

So let's start with 'option 3'. As far as direct vs resale, clearly I favor resale. The difference in cost is HUGE, and while a blue card is nice, in most cases you are talking about a tremendous difference in buy in price for this perk. I can't say what's right for you but for me, I wanted the points - as many as cheaply as possible. So let's use a quick back of the envelope example:
If it cost $235 a point direct at PVB vs say $150 a point for resale at PVB (to be conservative), it means you are saving $85 a point. This means on say a 150 point PVB contract resale it could save you appx $12,750 dollars. Enough said. I like blue cards and YMMV, but personally? I'll take the $12,750 dollars savings for resale, Alex.

As far as RIV (Riviera) vs PVB, I love the monorail area in general, and it is no longer just a rumor, but a fact that they are building a bridge that will enable ALL monorail DVC owners now including GFV and PVB to walk to the MK. I do like the skyliner, but at RIV it's going to be only 2 options: skyliner or bus to 2 parks (EPCOT and HS). PVB on the other hand, will give you 4 options (walking, monorail, bus, boat) to MK & 2 (monorail or bus) to EPCOT.

When you mention resale value is uncertain at RIV you are correct, but actually I think it's even worse than that. The idea that any buyer of a RIV resale contract will foregoe a 7 month option at any other resort is probably going to be a huge disadvantage for resale prices at RIV any way you slice it. No matter how much you love RIV, if you plan on going to WDW every year like the rest of us DVC addicts, the idea of never being able to stay at any resort besides for RIV resale buyers is a huge downside. Imagine never being able to stay at a Monorail resort (or any other DVC resort) at 7 months for as long as you have the contract year after year? This is something that would make a resale purchase at RIV for me such a huge disadvantage it would severely effect the price I personally would be willing to pay. Want to keep RIV forever & NEVER sell? Fine it won't matter because as an original blue card owner you still have the 7 month privilege. However if you ever plan to sell your RR you need to bear this in mind when you negotiate with a resale buyer IMO. I know people are complaining about this resale rule and HOPE that the rules will change, but 'hoping' they will change a rule that you are agreeing to from the start and is crystal clear should not in my opinion, be a basis for purchase. Right now this is the rule you are 'signing up for' when you buy at RIV so if you buy and assume they may somehow 'change the rule later' you take a gamble on the contract.

You also mention the costly price of the buy in. However I think it is worth remembering that over 20, 30 or more years of ownership, the MAINTENANCE FEE cost is one of the most overlooked, and significant costs of ownership, and can eventually become more significant than the initial buy in price. While it's true RIV is even newer than PVB with 4 extra years; PVB is not only one of the newest (and thus has a very late expiration date of 2066), but it also has the 4th lowest MF's at WDW - currently under $7 a point. MF's are one of the most overlooked costs at DVC from a financial perspective IMO.

Wherever you decide to buy and resale or direct, good luck and much thanks to your parents for their service!

Thank you for the insight! The monorail area definitely has a deep emotional attachment, largely in part because we usually stay as a family at Shades so there are many happy memories associated with those hotels. I agree, direct vs. resell prices make poly direct insanely expensive. My husband is pretty set on getting the Blue Card because he loves trying out new resorts and wants access to the the future resorts at the 7 month mark. This will likely be our largest total point purchase (anything in the future would be smaller add on contracts), and so for us this would be the best time to buy direct and hit the required minimum point purchase. I'm starting to wonder if maybe we should do a hybrid approach. Buy enough to get direct benefits, and then a smaller resale Poly contract...


And thanks for your service as well!

 

[Onceuponamarathon]

This. I have been arguing this for months now. I don't even think we need to wait until 2042 to start seeing it.

There are a TON of contracts expiring in 2042. In around 10 years your choices in the EPCOT area are going to be a restricted RIV resale with 40 years and BCV or BWV with a whopping 10 years left. At that point being restricted to RIV doesn't look so bad. I'm frankly surprised BCV hasn't started dropping yet.

We considered BCV direct but ultimately ruled it out because of the time left on the contract and the uncertainty about what happens after....at least with RIV we know going in the restrictions

 

[Onceuponamarathon]

I don't spend five figures to maybe make a few hundred bucks in ten years. If the history of DVC has shown anything it's that these benefits go down, not up over time.

Your earlier points about having an exit strategy and not taking a bath on the resell are both great points. It's actually what pushes us towards RIV. If we turned around and sold Poly we would be taking a ~50-75 dollar a per point hit on the resale market due to direct being so expensive. Riviera's hit would be less (right now) but who knows what the market will ultimately be long term. That being said, obviously buying poly resale is better financially, but we would lose the ability to book at future resorts, which is important to us. I don't want to be in a position where 5 years from now we're looking at a massive point purchase direct to get the benefits so we can stay at new resorts (or looking a smaller but still pricey locked in resale across multiple new resorts).

We know we're going to pay somewhat of a premium to go direct right now. The question is how much. Realistically we are treating this as a luxury purchase not an investment. While we would hope to get *something* resale if it came to it, we are not counting on breaking even on resale, much less make a few hundred bucks. If we were trying to make money, we'd be buying stock and staying at AoA .

 

[CaliAdventurer]

Just a crazy thought. Make 2 purchases:

I'm messaging you next time I have a big life decision. Genius. : )

 

[RoseGold]

The reason we're interested in Direct vs Resale is 1. the AP discount (which I know isn't guaranteed) and 2. ability to book any future resort. My spouse is very much a hotel/resort person and it's a deal breaker to be locked into the original 14 resorts, or into only 1 of the new resorts.

If this is your criteria, I would give DL Tower some thought.

Construction is still going, even though DL is a mess right now. VGC has shown an insane ability to hold value, pretty much creating its own resale restriction because of how valuable the California points are. Both VGC and DL tower are tiny, highly desirable resorts, compared to RIV. The points rent at a premium, the 11 month priority is almost mandatory all year long. I would feel much less nervous about the California resale restriction, as California construction will be maxed out for the foreseeable future.

This does have some downsides: waiting a few years to buy, DL is majorly distressed right now and may not open for many, many months, point chart and cost could be historically high. I find it hard to picture DL tower topping VGC, but it could.

If I'm choosing between 180 for RIV or 220 for DL Tower, I'm picking DL tower, because I know it will hold value and will stay small. Once DVC is selling again, WDW will continue produce huge resorts in the giant amount of space they have. And the next one will be shinier and newer, and maybe even much bigger than RIV.

 

[Onceuponamarathon]

Just a crazy thought. Make 2 purchases:

1.) Purchase a fixed week Riviera using FW standard, which would probably be about 150 points. That would still be in the same incentive tier. The total cost would be approx. 28k. That's a 14k savings from Poly.

2.) Then take that 14k, and use it to purchase 100 points resale for Poly. Every other year, bank your points in Poly and see if you can get a room at Poly during the 11 month mark for the runDisney dates that you want. If you can't, use the points for a different stay.

Pros: The total price is the same as the Poly, you get the Blue Card, and you get the opportunity to stay at Poly every other year or so, but get a guaranteed week at Riviera.

Cons: You will have to pay more maintenance fees as you will have more points. You will also have to do more work to get a runDisney week.

If you're interested in that, I would do the Riviera purchase on Nov. 2 or 3, then see if they come out with better incentives after Nov. 4.

Been thinking more and and more this may be the way to go!

 

[limace]

I’m very excited about DL tower but I didn’t see that the OP goes to DL?

 

[Onceuponamarathon]

I’m very excited about DL tower but I didn’t see that the OP goes to DL?

We live on the east coast. DL is on the list of places to go, but we visit WDW several times a year. While I find the suggestion interesting from a resale/rental premium standpoint intriguing (what the poster says makes A LOT of sense from an investment standpoint), we go to WDW too often to not have a home resort there.

 

[RoseGold]

we go to WDW too often to not have a home resort there.

Then it sounds like RIV is the plan for you. I would sign before Nov 4, so you can cancel and get better incentives if they release them Nov 4, or keep incentives if they get worse.

If you're already going down the RIV route, buying the extra 100 points at RIV makes sense to me also. Too bad you just missed those awesome summer incentives. Maybe the free 2019 points for Dec UY is still available?

Be sure to split your contract as small as your can if you aren't getting the fixed weeks. The 50, 75 are MUCH easier to sell than a big 200 and costs the same when you buy, maybe a little in closing. Managing the small contracts is very easy and NBD.

 

[jennyq87]

And you have someone like me who thinks it’s a perfect place. It is my cup of tea.

That is the good thing about DVC...there is a place for everyone.

Agreed! We were moved to Riviera back in August because our original resort was taken over by the NBA. We weren't very excited but what can you do? But holy cow -- we absolutely fell in love with the resort. We were in a 1BR and it's now my favorite room on property. We're going back in January and I can't wait! I can't imagine feeling sad that I "only" got to stay here in the future.

 

[Onceuponamarathon]

Then it sounds like RIV is the plan for you. I would sign before Nov 4, so you can cancel and get better incentives if they release them Nov 4, or keep incentives if they get worse.

If you're already going down the RIV route, buying the extra 100 points at RIV makes sense to me also. Too bad you just missed those awesome summer incentives. Maybe the free 2019 points for Dec UY is still available?

Be sure to split your contract as small as your can if you aren't getting the fixed weeks. The 50, 75 are MUCH easier to sell than a big 200 and costs the same when you buy, maybe a little in closing. Managing the small contracts is very easy and NBD.

I know! I am my kicking myself for not taking advantage over the summer. With the closing costs covered in the current incentive, it’s not too big of a discrepancy but still would be a few hundred cheaper if we bought in July...

 

[Onceuponamarathon]

And you have someone like me who thinks it’s a perfect place. It is my cup of tea.

That is the good thing about DVC...there is a place for everyone.

I'm really curious how we'll like RIV. It very much looks like our cup of tea!