poly--to be or not to be?

[Fantasia79]

If they built a Poly DVC, I don't think I could sign up fast enough. Looking around, lots of rumors, but still exciting possibility.

 

[spiceycat]

I .

I wouldn't be surprised of Disney is deciding to take the Poly profit next to maximize the revenue from the Fantasyland expansion, Seven Dwarfs Mine.

correct me if i am wrong - but think that DVC is now with the other hotels - so the money can not go the parks - but must be spend on DVC or other hotels - and it also goes to the bottom line.

any parks stuff much come from the parks budget/income.

now this may change - disney is a much bigger corporation than the one I worked for.

Disney can make more money on DVC than the parks. Now the Polyn changes can come from the profit on DVC polyn (I think),

especially since any expansion or changes at the Polyn can be blamed on the DVC part. Like the 4th floor at CR for BLT. so unless I am wrong (and could be big time) - not only would DVC Polyn pay for itself - but could possible pay for part of the Polyn

 

[thepops]

I tried to get any of the DVC folks on our cruise to admit to a Poly DVC, but none of them would bite. But we did add on points at AKV! Just too good a deal to pass up.

 

[dizfan]

correct me if i am wrong - but think that DVC is now with the other hotels - so the money can not go the parks - but must be spend on DVC or other hotels - and it also goes to the bottom line.

any parks stuff much come from the parks budget/income.

now this may change - disney is a much bigger corporation than the one I worked for.

Disney can make more money on DVC than the parks. Now the Polyn changes can come from the profit on DVC polyn (I think),

especially since any expansion or changes at the Polyn can be blamed on the DVC part. Like the 4th floor at CR for BLT. so unless I am wrong (and could be big time) - not only would DVC Polyn pay for itself - but could possible pay for part of the Polyn

The money is all under Disney corporation. Maybe I'm mistaken, but my understanding has always been that all the profits and distribution is decided by the corporate front office, not each division sinking or swimming on their own. If divisions had to sink or swim on their own, the parks would have had a hard time funding rehabs and expansion after economic crash.

Dues must stay part of the hotel and DVC upkeep. Profits from DVD should be fair game for corporate to decide.

 

[vicki_c]

The money is all under Disney corporation. Maybe I'm mistaken, but my understanding has always been that all the profits and distribution is decided by the corporate front office, not each division sinking or swimming on their own. If divisions had to sink or swim on their own, the parks would have had a hard time funding rehabs and expansion after economic crash.

Dues must stay part of the hotel and DVC upkeep. Profits from DVD should be fair game for corporate to decide.

I believe each division/business unit is its own profit center, which is the opposite of what you're saying. But that doesn't mean that profits have to stay forever in that division, of course.

 

[Mike2023]

I do think that Poly DVC is inevitable as no doubt it would be the most expensive, fastest selling dvc project to date.

But, if it was me, I would wait until DVC was everywhere else first. Poly is a sure sell, so what incentive do they have in putting it up now? Why not build the matching tower over at the contemporary first and let that sell for a few years. My point is, DVC could run its course, completely saturate the market and not be able to sell anymore due to lack of demand and then build DVC at the poly and still sell out overnight.

Also, I'm not sure the point about new pool and hot tub is a valid point. There is a decent chance that if room would allow, they could build a pool off the dvc wing and have it be a gated pool just like at BLT and AKLKV. (officially I don't believe non DVC Jambo guests can use the pool at Kidani.) If it was a shared pool then Disney would still be on the hook for maintenance as Members would not be required to cover all the costs associated with it.

 

[Breyean]

The money is all under Disney corporation. Maybe I'm mistaken, but my understanding has always been that all the profits and distribution is decided by the corporate front office, not each division sinking or swimming on their own. If divisions had to sink or swim on their own, the parks would have had a hard time funding rehabs and expansion after economic crash.

Dues must stay part of the hotel and DVC upkeep. Profits from DVD should be fair game for corporate to decide.

A few years ago I was speaking to someone somewhere in the upper DVC hierarchy about the size of the DVC at VGC and how they had eliminated the ability to use points at GCH.

I asked why such a small DVC when the hotel was so huge.

He said DVC has to fight the hotel division over space at just about every DVC built. They have to make their case that DVC will generate more $$, not just immediately, but over time, to justify taking away the potential hotel bookings.

Makes sense to me. I've worked at some really big companies where each division was considered its own profit center and had to justify it existence or expansion vs other departments.

So I would guess each division at Disney has to make its numbers. Of course it all gets pooled at the corporate level and that's how you get your park expansions and such.

 

[dizfan]

So I would guess each division at Disney has to make its numbers. Of course it all gets pooled at the corporate level and that's how you get your park expansions and such.

Agree that each division has to make their own numbers.
My original point was Disney uses park enhancements to boost DVC. Vice versa, they use DVC to allow they to enhance parks. I did this by proposing they use VGF and Poly DVC while MK expansion is new. Then, take the profits for those resorts to enhance DHS. Then, build the rumored California themed DVC resort with waling access to DHS and BB.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

One thing that could forestall a DVC at the Poly would be push-back from the Poly faithful.

There is a significant number of Polynesian Resort guests that have been returning every year since they were little. These guests are a better revenue stream, long term, for Disney than DVC, since WDW gets not only park and restaurant visits but also room rate.

In addition, the outcry from non-DVC guests to keep one deluxe resort DVC-free may also be taken into consideration by WDW management. While technically the Yacht Club is a separate hotel, those guests are impacted by BCV, thus many do not see it as a non-DVC resort.

In the end, we shall see, but there is a significant voice of dissent against a DVC arm of the Poly resort, so this project is not a certainty.

I believe there is a disconnect between actual Disney statistics and suspected Polynesian guest loyalty.

A few years ago, a friend of mine was a cast member at the Yacht & Beach Club and, specifically, the Beach Club front desk. Resort retention (i.e., percentage of guests that return to a given resort) was a key issue. During the time of my friend's employment, Disney's Wilderness Lodge had the highest retention (something in the 90s) and Disney's Polynesian Resort had the lowest. Whether it was the aging rooms, nightly rate, or some other factor, something caused Polynesian guests to visit somewhere else during their next WDW visit.

Overall, based on retention discussions and my DVC experience, if any resort has a loyal following my guess is that it is Disney's Wilderness Lodge. Aside from guest retention, I suspect that DVC VWL owners are the most loyal to their home resort.

Disney's Polynesian DVC is coming. Regarding monorail resort construction, the Contemporary was first, Grand Floridian second, and Polynesian will be third. The build-out order was intentional.

 

[OrangeCountyCommuter]

I know two families who go at least once a year, often more and only stay at the Poly. ( and one of them says it is really overpriced, but....,)

They would likely not buy DVC and are not happy with the rumors.

 

[lah3hh]

Based on some of the various viewpoints it seems to me some folks feel by adding a DVC component into the Poly makes it less appealing to the general public. I do not agree with that way of thinking. DVC members and our resorts do not bring down the value of the neighborhood...IMHO.

I have the budget ready and the check filled out to be one of the first to add on when the Poly DVC comes to fruition!!!!

 

[mkunichi]

Why do resort hotel guests not want a DVC at their resort? Is it the creation of amenities that aren't shared like pools and such? Or is it the additional pressure on shared amenities like the monorail station, shops, and restaurants?

 

[OrangeCountyCommuter]

Why do resort hotel guests not want a DVC at their resort? Is it the creation of amenities that aren't shared like pools and such? Or is it the additional pressure on shared amenities like the monorail station, shops, and restaurants?

Maybe it is the entitlement attitude some Members have.

 

[Mommb]

Was there backlash from Contemporary guests when Bay Lake Tower opened? I am still puzzled why simply having DVC rooms nearby would be a negative. If DVC members are complaining due to a sense of entitlement, they would do so at the DVC desk at the resort. People may complain at shops, restaurants, and buses no matter where they are staying.

I can see possible negative effects, particularly on buses and restaurants, from having more rooms at a resort, but that's not what I'm reading will be the problem. Yes, some frequent guests may complain or change resorts, but that must be a small portion of the potential guests, and no more than the number of guests who decide to stay at a resort again after being in a villa.

 

[Sammie]

Why do resort hotel guests not want a DVC at their resort? Is it the creation of amenities that aren't shared like pools and such? Or is it the additional pressure on shared amenities like the monorail station, shops, and restaurants?

It over crowds the amenities. The monorail, the boats, the restaurants, the pools, everything. Plus many don't want to see it change.

It's in the plans so it would take something major to stop it from going through and the hue and cry of guests won't be it.

 

[cwdefouw]

It over crowds the amenities. The monorail, the boats, the restaurants, the pools, everything. Plus many don't want to see it change.

It's in the plans so it would take something major to stop it from going through and the hue and cry of guests won't be it.

I am just not sure that the over-crowding logic really hold water...

Using recent examples. In some situations, like BLT, where there were a large number of additional rooms added, beyond what were replaced in the old North wing, or at VGF where it is just simply additional rooms being added, I agree about the stress on some the the facilities, however BLT did add it's own pool to help relieve the main Contemporary pool.

However at AKL Jambo House where rooms were converted, there are potentially less guests using the facilities after the conversion than before. ie a DVC two bedroom converted three hotel rooms which could have potentially slept 12 people into a villa that sleeps 9 max and adds a kitchen which should theoretically offload from the restaurants.

The current rumours for the Poly are that at least one existing building will be taken down and replaced by "something" which I can't imagine would be a high rise BLT style of building, I am thinking more of a mid rise 4-6 floor structure that would blend in more architecturally with the existing resort. So this would be a room replacement with potentially more rooms total than are being replaced, however, the rooms would be lower capacity so overall number of guests should not increase dramatically. If new buildings are "added" it would stand to reason that an additional pool will be added as well.

The biggest problems that I see with the Poly are the transportation and parking issues. Any increase in the number of guests could potentially stress the boats and monorail, and any loss of parking to the new construction would be bad as I just don't see any parking that could be added unless they take a corner of the main MK lot and that could be long walk from the resort.

I know the perception of DVC is that it over crowds everything, but I think Disney is smart enough to plan for any over crowding that might occur.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

I do not think it has anything to do with crowding or entitlements.

Disney's Polynesian Resort has a constituency that wants the resort to remain true to its October 1971 opening. These individuals know and love every intricate detail of the resort. Moreover, they are currently concerned about the employment of cast members who participate in Disney's Spirit of Aloha Dinner Show (i.e., when Luau Cove is removed, what will happen to these cast members). From the shoreline to the tropical forest in the GCH, they are deeply concerned about preserving nostalgia.

When the Contemporary's North Wing came down, I doubt anyone even batted an eye. If Kaleo, one of the resort's treasured performers, goes because of DVC construction, the constituency will be heartbroken.

 

[ssawka]

It over crowds the amenities. The monorail, the boats, the restaurants, the pools, everything. Plus many don't want to see it change.

Maybe it is the entitlement attitude some Members have.

I think it is more of a feeling of "entitlement" to think that you have a say in what a resort does just because you are a returning guest. With DVC owners, the initial profits from sales are guaranteed, where as there is no guarantee that a returning guest will continue to return. DVC owners make a large financial commitment to a resort, the same cannot be said for hotel guests. Now, I do agree that building DVC resorts instead of hotel rooms is trading long-term profits for short-term gains, but that's how corporate America works.

 

[Andrew015]

This one strikes a note with me, as I am one of those traditionalists that despises change. Those of us that come to love certain attractions or resorts so much, we become emotionally attached to them – so much so, that any notion of change always seems to strike a nerve. Every time I see the massive Fantasia gift shop clogging up the middle of the Grand Canyon Concourse, I get sick to my stomach. As if there aren’t enough generic gift shops selling overpriced clothes or plastic made-in-China toys, let’s add another one right in the heart of the Contemporary. Seriously???

That being said, I do try to look at both sides of the coin. Disney, as much as we feel like it’s our very own, most-special, happiest place in the world… is simply a business. It’s existence is to make money, and the moment it stops doing just that is the moment it ceases to exist. While Disney is and always has been #1 in the world, it can’t just sit back on its laurels and watch Universal pass by. In order to prevent that, it constantly has to evaluate the competitive landscape and customer demands. So how do they secure their place at the top? Increase sales, increase profitability, and continue to grow market share. And it’s quite evident to me that right now, one of Disney’s key vehicles for doing just that (aside from more generic gift shops) is the continued expansion of DVC… Customers are lining up in droves for VGF, and many will do the same thing for DVC Poly.

Think about the immediate return on investment, the maintenance fees that pay for upkeep and refurbishments rather than Disney profits, the fact that you are locking in return customers for 30, 40 or 50 years at a crack. If Disney had to choose between pissing off the occasional cash guest staying at the Poly, or winning over a perspective owner of Poly DVC and thus, a guaranteed return customer for years to come, I think the answer for them is quite clear – DVC wins every time.

I must say that I despised the addition of VWL back in the 90’s. When the concept of Bay Lake Tower was pitched, I thought to myself “You’ll ruin the skyline” – this stinks. And here we are a few years later, I must admit that I’ve really come to accept these changes (I now own at VWL and want to add more points elsewhere in the future – Poly or BLT). I think these additions were tastefully done, preserving the theming and beauty of the original resorts. And if they continue to help Disney increase marketshare and profitability, well then that means that my favorite resorts – WL, Contemp, Poly, GF… will be around for many more years to come.

We can only hope that DVC at the Poly will be done tastefully, and in my opinion, the concept layout that can be found on Tikiman’s page is quite intriguing. I just pray that they leave the Great Ceremonial House in tact and that the resort resembles the South Pacific paradise that we have all grown to love so much…

I do not think it has anything to do with crowding or entitlements.

Disney's Polynesian Resort has a constituency that wants the resort to remain true to its October 1971 opening. These individuals know and love every intricate detail of the resort. Moreover, they are currently concerned about the employment of cast members who participate in Disney's Spirit of Aloha Dinner Show (i.e., when Luau Cove is removed, what will happen to these cast members). From the shoreline to the tropical forest in the GCH, they are deeply concerned about preserving nostalgia.

When the Contemporary's North Wing came down, I doubt anyone even batted an eye. If Kaleo, one of the resort's treasured performers, goes because of DVC construction, the constituency will be heartbroken.

 

[csharpwv]

Well said, Andrew015!

But before I get in to any of that...

If they have such big plans for DVC at the Poly - why in the world have they just spent so much renovating ALL of the rooms at the Poly?!

Anyway....

There are so many things about Disney that Disney fans just cringe when the thought of change comes on to the horizon!

When it comes to the things that the Disney faithful view as untouchable, we do indeed have deep emotional connections and have very close stitched memories attached to those thing that we hold so close!

In addition so many people have come to think of Disney as a non-profit creator of dreams, fantasy, and good times - that must come with Free Dining.

The spirit of entitlement that people have today absolutely disgusts me at times. People that they because they have vacation somewhere for 10 years that they are entitled to an opinion, and a stake in the decision making process about changes that are made.

We are consumers of a product, and the only voice we carry is typically attached to our KTTW card when we check in... you know, our credit card, cash.... money....

If Disney builds a DVC facility at the Poly and long time fans of the poly don't care for that decision... where will they turn? What resort will become their new 'go to' resort?

Likely, they will pick another resort - and continue to return... just not to the Poly.

So I don't think Disney is going to care much about the changes that people do or do not want! I hate to say that, but it really is the truth!