Poly DVC Plans to be Expanded

[anthony2k7]

Don't forget, you never really buy a DVC unit, you in effect lease it because after a given number of years it reverts back to Disney. At that point they can either resell it as it is or tear it down and build something new. Once the order resorts start recycling they won't need to build any new units because they will in effect be reselling old ones.

But its a 50 year lease isnt it? so the earliest the points expire is 2042 I believe?

If they continue building properties at nearly one a year - thats going to be a lot of extra properties by 2042 before they get to start re-leasing the points again!

Surely saturation point will be reached long before 2042 - then what?

 

[Andrew015]

But its a 50 year lease isnt it? so the earliest the points expire is 2042 I believe?

If they continue building properties at nearly one a year - thats going to be a lot of extra properties by 2042 before they get to start re-leasing the points again!

Surely saturation point will be reached long before 2042 - then what?

Don't forget, the DVC portion of the revenue stream is only one piece of the puzzle. You will still be paying for park admission, food/dining plans, souveniours, etc. etc., all of which will continue to increase in price year over year.

DVC is simply a way for Disney to subsidize their hotel builds and lock in guranteed return business for decades to come.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I never bought the rather "limited" plans they originally released..

The poly is a sacred cow of wdw...people love it

And they wouldn't be doing a whole new pool complex, lobby renovations, and a new service location for what would have been a small handful of rooms.

Never bought it

 

[lockedoutlogic]

1) The "expansion" of DVC into Poly rooms was a rumor from the start.
2) The Poly has an large unacceptable occupancy rate when compared to GF-WL-BC/YC-BW.
. . . other resorts are also down in occupancy rates
. . . if you notice, WDW now advertises their hotels and not the parks
. . . people are electing to go off-site more and more
. . . it is harder and harder to see "Disney" theming at the non-Value resorts
. . . all the resorts do have good themes, but not the "Disney Feel" as in the past *
3) Since Disney gets immediate cash/profit from DVC sales, they are really happy.
. . . they reap between $500m-$1b
. . . this is done in 24-36 months, not 30-years
. . . and, the cash flow is terrific, since they payoff the loans over 30-years

* IMHO

I think economics...finally...caught up with their pricing.
The poly is a collection of $29 rooms in earth tones that they charge $500 a night for...

No hot tub, no spa, no upscale dining...that's a really hard sell

 

[tjkraz]

Surely saturation point will be reached long before 2042 - then what?

Maybe...maybe not.

Remember there is a constant stream of new business for Disney and DVC. There are children in elementary school and high school today who will be candidates for DVC ownership in another 10-20 years.

The challenge is finding that new business for another 28 years until the first generation of resorts is available to re-sell.

 

[DebbieB]

They've said you will not be able to get in at 7 months for many resorts and it's been possible. BCV, BLT, VGC, VGF. I've been able to get in at all of them. With the number of rooms at the Poly, it will be similar to BLT.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

They've said you will not be able to get in at 7 months for many resorts and it's been possible. BCV, BLT, VGC, VGF. I've been able to get in at all of them. With the number of rooms at the Poly, it will be similar to BLT.

Really depends on the day your going...

For grins I looked all the way through October and now November...

And only sloppy seconds...
I would also like to thank my friends from Florida for booking every single room thurs-Sunday night in 5 places...

I'll be sure to helicopter down for that Monday-Thursday jaunt

 

[nuts]

They've said you will not be able to get in at 7 months for many resorts and it's been possible. BCV, BLT, VGC, VGF. I've been able to get in at all of them. With the number of rooms at the Poly, it will be similar to BLT.

Same here. Never had a problem at 7 months. I got to stay at the $145/point VGF using my $70/point SSR . I expect to do the same with the Poly.

 

[beer dave]

I never bought the rather "limited" plans they originally released..

The poly is a sacred cow of wdw...people love it

And they wouldn't be doing a whole new pool complex, lobby renovations, and a new service location for what would have been a small handful of rooms.

Never bought it

Agreed-- although I think in my case I was hoping it wasn't true as well as not believing-- the more they build the more we get.

 

[beer dave]

Really depends on the day your going...

For grins I looked all the way through October and now November...

And only sloppy seconds...
I would also like to thank my friends from Florida for booking every single room thurs-Sunday night in 5 places...

I'll be sure to helicopter down for that Monday-Thursday jaunt

As the self appointed representative of our group, you are welcome. lol.

 

[Kiwini]

In our ten visits to WDW over twenty years we've only stayed at the Polynesian - ground floor Theme Park view, Tahiti longhouse. Bliss. They're already building huts in the lagoon in front of "our" lanai. Based on what I've read and the photos I've seen, this development ruins the Poly for us. Aloha means hello and goodbye.

 

[KYMickey]

In our ten visits to WDW over twenty years we've only stayed at the Polynesian - ground floor Theme Park view, Tahiti longhouse. Bliss. They're already building huts in the lagoon in front of "our" lanai. Based on what I've read and the photos I've seen, this development ruins the Poly for us. Aloha means hello and goodbye.

I've been thinking the same thing while looking at the pictures of the new huts. In order to benefit a few elitists they are ruining things for hordes of regular visitors. Putting DVC at the Poly was inevitable and would have been a cause for concern anyway but because of the implementation is turning into a complete disaster for most people. Even people who buy a DVC in one of the regular buildings will lose good views in many cases.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

As the self appointed representative of our group, you are welcome. lol.

Touché...but it's kinda ridiculous.

The F&W festival definitely needs some new blood Infused into it...

But the dealer won't sweeten the product if nobody will stay off the pipe

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I've been thinking the same thing while looking at the pictures of the new huts. In order to benefit a few elitists they are ruining things for hordes of regular visitors. Putting DVC at the Poly was inevitable and would have been a cause for concern anyway but because of the implementation is turning into a complete disaster for most people. Even people who buy a DVC in one of the regular buildings will lose good views in many cases.

Now...I gotta ask why you feel this way and expand a little.

The poly is rather small... And they heavily over charge for it. It already was "elitist"... Just didnt make very much sense.

And now you can save yourself money over the haul by buying the DVC there...that gives you lots of options as opposed to locking you into anything.

And you won't pour $4,000 a week on a room down a hole.

There is an upside. If you are lamenting that "lost" special feeling...I feel for you but kindly ask you to join the line.

They are not going to stop exploiting everything at over the top rates. Everybody sucks it up and then asks for another round on the nose.

It's indicative of a consumer stupidity that has set in particularly in wdw...
People ate it up like drunken sailors during the real estate boom...then everybody realized they didnt have "ALL" that money for five years and had to "suffer"...and now everyone is back on the bus...so they're once again climbing over each other for more of the same stuff that is more stale than before at much higher cost.

It's vacation...people should turn their worries off...not eliminate higher brain function

 

[beer dave]

Touché...but it's kinda ridiculous.

The F&W festival definitely needs some new blood Infused into it...

But the dealer won't sweeten the product if nobody will stay off the pipe

lol. Joking aside, I have a good friend who has been at BLT this week, and the reports are that it is not as crowded as it has been over past spring breaks. They typically go only spring break or christmas. We are joining them for this weekend, so I will put my take on it. It seems the pricing may be taking it's toll. Or maybe he is wrong...

And I agree with you that the increases won't stop until people stop going, but I don't think anyone will stop until they actually get priced out as opposed to "making a stand". When children are involved, most parents will spend anything they can to provide little Jimmy and Susie with the same or better trip than Billy and Sally's parents gave them. It's all one big competition, isn't it? I haven't checked the score this week.... I hope I am not falling behind... I'm getting tired.

 

[yitbos96bb]

To be fair, number 2 is an assumption... We just won't know until it all goes down. You are probably right if course but we'll see.

He is not very happy about this recent change, nor are a number of other Polynesian faithful. There are essentially three factions of people that are involved in this dialogue:

• Loyal Polynesian fans that are not DVC Members
• Current DVC Members that would love to take advantage of Poly DVC
• Folks that have been "holding out" to purchase Poly DVC

The general consensus is that the first two groups of people are "screwed" for lack of better terms. For the first group, a large portion of the Polynesian is being taken "off limits" and made exclusively DVC. This will drive demand for the remaining "cash rooms" sky-high, and along with it, pricing for said rooms, thus putting the Polynesian out of reach for many. The second group of people (myself included) will not benefit, either, as the high demand for Poly DVC will cause two things to happen: 1.) high demand will set the nightly points requirement very high and 2.) high demand will cause no availability at the 7-month booking window, thus essentially requiring one to "own" there as your home resort in order to take advantage of this DVC add-on. Again, this puts Poly DVC out of reach for many existing DVC owners such as myself.

Really, the only folks that are happy about this change are the people that have been holding out to buy Poly DVC. It is going to be one very expensive proposition (much like VGF, perhaps even moreso), not to mention all of the major changes to this iconic resort. My only hope is that these changes leave the look and feel of the resort much the same as it stands today.

 

[yitbos96bb]

Just FTR, there were AKL rooms converted to be DVC rooms as part of the DZvC expansion. Not to this extent though.

Speaking for what I believe to be the majority, I don't believe that most of us hate DVC expansion. Rather, we hate fundamental changes to an existing resort that is great "as-is".

What they are doing at Poly is unprescidented, with large, fundamental changes to the existing parent-resort as part of the DVC expansion process. We have never seen changes of this magnitude at other resorts that have received DVC add-on's. For example, Contemporary, Wilderness Lodge, AKL, Grand Floridian, etc. - have all received DVC expansions, but they have been seemlessly and elegently integrated as part of the parent resort with minimal changes or fanfare to the existing infastructure, amenities, theming, etc. I think the most drastic change that we have seen elsewhere would be at the Contemporary with the demo of a garden wing to make way for BLT. By and large, the experience for a cash-guest hasn't really changed much at these resorts (good or bad), and everbody seems to win in this scenario. The Polynesian, on the other hand, is getting blown up and we are yet to see what is going to get churned out as a result. The writing is on the wall that room availability for cash guests is going to literally be cut in half, with higher demand leading to higher prices. Consequently, for DVC guests, high demand is going to lead to record high point costs per night and substantial buy-in costs. Rather than a "win-win", this one appears to be a "lose-lose", unless of course you have $30K - $50K available to sink in on 150 - 300 points as a new Poly DVC owner.

I am clinging to some optimism that the end result of the construction is going to be spectacular, but past experiences of "change" at Disney has me leery. I wish I had some optimism that we could reasonably obtain a week's stay (either cash or DVC) at the Poly moving forward, but again, the glimmer of hope on this front seems to be fading quickly.

 

[yitbos96bb]

If Poly has a problem, I'm going to guess it's because the per night cost is about the same as GF and while it's nice, it's not worth that price to most people. Lower the price and it doesn't have the issue.

I think this is very interesting. I've never stayed at the Poly, but I've visited several times & I've always wanted to stay there. Although I loved all the plants, the landscaping, and the waterfall, IMHO the resort does look "dated" and I'm personally excited to see how it will look when it's finished. If the rumors are true and it ends up looking something like Aulani, I think it will be terrific.

I haven't looked at occupancy rates, I always assumed that the Poly was high, based on all the positive Poly feedback on the internet. However, if the Poly has particularly low occupancy, it may be struggling with a problem that is common to hotels - and more so to restaurants and retail stores.

Basically, they have a core group of "fans" who have been there many times, love it the way it is, and don't want anything to change. However, people who aren't already attached to it don't feel the same way, and are more likely to see all the flaws since they don't have that "history". Over time, the hotel/restaurant becomes less and less popular, as that core group dwindles over time, and fewer new people are interested.

If occupancy is down, you lose some rooms to the DVC, and occupancy shoots up. The DVC pool is limited, so you're pretty much going to have to own there to stay there, leading to a quick sellout - both from new people and add-ons. The resort is full, DVC owners are happy, and Disney makes a boatload of cash quickly. So, from Disney's perspective, I can see that it's a win-win.

The only people who lose are the people who like things "the way they used to be", but since change is constant, those people lose everything, everywhere (not just at WDW), all the time anyway.


As for the DVC cost - I don't follow DVC that closely, but from my recollection, DVC has never charged drastically different prices for resorts that are on sale at the same time. For example, many people thought DVC was going to charge $175 per point for VGF, and they surprised a lot of people by only charging $145 per point - similar to existing resorts. They made up for it by charging more per point. I wouldn't be surprised to see them go this route for the Poly as well. I'm almost wondering whether the Poly could finally be the first "investment property" in the DVC - if owners could charge enough of a premium when renting points to make it a worthwhile investment.