Political - Why can't he admit a mistake ?

[HOGFAN]

why cant this poster quit stirring the pot? NOBODY is gonna change their opinions. This is suppose to be a fun place. Lets quite talking about politics. Whoever gets elected, gets elected. And personally, I believe whoever GOD wants in office will be elected no matter how ANYBODY votes.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

WOW!!

First, the statements about sacrificing our children ...... This is a propaganda question. People in the military voluntarily signed up and they signed up as adults, my husband is included. They did not have to join the military. Granted, they are someone's child, but they are not 7 or 8 years old.

I feel that we HAD to go into Iraq for our children and our posterity. No one wants a war, nobody likes a war, but sometimes you have to have a war.

The remark about speaking abilities. It is sad that people assume a person is not bright by the way they speak. A lot of brilliant people have problems with speaking. I could say someone from up north is an idiot because of their accent. Or I could also say someone from another country is an idiot because of their accent. OR I could say a person is an idiot because of the style in which they speak, or their poor use of syntax.......I could go on and on. Haven't we gotten in enough trouble in world history because of stereotypes? I guess we are all idiots because of the way we speak or do speeches. Interesting.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Originally posted by gottaluvPluto
WOW!!

First, the statements about sacrificing our children ...... This is a propaganda question. People in the military voluntarily signed up and they signed up as adults, my husband is included. They did not have to join the military. Granted, they are someone's child, but they are not 7 or 8 years old.

I feel that we HAD to go into Iraq for our children and our posterity. No one wants a war, nobody likes a war, but sometimes you have to have a war.

The remark about speaking abilities. It is sad that people assume a person is not bright by the way they speak. A lot of brilliant people have problems with speaking. I could say someone from up north is an idiot because of their accent. Or I could also say someone from another country is an idiot because of their accent. OR I could say a person is an idiot because of the style in which they speak, or their poor use of syntax.......I could go on and on. Haven't we gotten in enough trouble in world history because of stereotypes? I guess we are all idiots because of the way we speak or do speeches. Interesting.

Yes, they voluntarily signed up. Some of us don't want to see their lives wasted on a senseless war. How does going to Iraq help anyones children? The body bags coming back didn't faze you at all? You've never asked the question, if going to war with Iraq was the right thing to do? Put all of the false bravado aside, and think about it for awhile. It took me awhile too.

 

[Nancy]

Body bags coming back make me sad. I have friends that have family fighting over there, no I don't have anyone close to me. I have thought long and hard over this and YES I still think it was the right thing to do and we need to be there, to finish what we started.

Do I think Bush has a plan on how to do that..nope...but I haven't heard Kerry say what he's going to do either. Is he just going to pull all the troops out and bring them home?

 

[ThAnswr]

Originally posted by MICKEY88
,,,

can you come up with any credible, intelligent reasons to dislike the president, or is that why you must criticize his public speaking abilities..

some of the most intelligent people in the world are poor speakers,,,

some of the best speakers are nothing more than slimy crooks

And some people who can't put 2 words together to make a coherent sentence are just plain lazy especially when they've had every advantage in life and have attended some of the best schools in the country.

 

[ThAnswr]

Originally posted by Broken8ball
Please, do us all a favor. Wear your Hammer and Sickle "I love Kerry" t-shirt as you get on a plane back to your Mother Russia. They like the easily decieved there.

Okay, who lifted the rock?

 

[ThAnswr]

Originally posted by wvrevy
Most of us are just happy that he can speak english, which is a nice change of pace from the guy currently in the White House

ROTFLMAO!

Please, put a warning on posts like this.

The only thing I can is you've got it bad!!!!

 

[donaldbuzz&minnie]

I think that President Bush did make a mistake, not in going into Iraq, but in the way he chose to go in. I really think that he needed to use the momentum he had in the US and the world just after 9/11 to concentrate on building a team of civilized nations to work together to find Osama and shut down Al Qaeda. That should have been our first priority. If we had concentrated our resources on that goal, and really emphasized teamwork then, I think we would have had a chance to contain Al Qaeda before it metasasized into the threat it is today.

If at the same time, our President had asked us citizens to drastically curtail our energy use while the Fed Gov't put in place a we're-going-to-the-moon-in-a-decade level effort to find alternate energy sources, it would have taken a lot of the steam out of the suspicion a lot of people have in the Middle East that we just want their oil.

President Bush needed to also concentrate much more on helping our state and local governments to prepare for a terrorist attack on our soil. We still aren't ready, and we should be.

THEN, after the team of nations working together to fight terrorism had a chance to iron out the kinks in this new exercise of fighting terrorism, and we'd been substantially successful, as a team, in taking the teeth out of Al Qaeda - THEN we should have turned to the team and said, "what next?" We would have had a much greater chance that the world would have gone in together against Iraq at that point than we ever did when all of our allies were saying that their intelligence wasn't confirming that there were any weapons of mass destruction, and Mr. Bush was saying he was going in anyway, with a"we're so powerful so it's my way or the highway" attitude that offended so many nations, and only the most window-dressed version of appealing to the UN.

If we still felt it was in our national interest to go into Iraq alone, we could have gotten a lot more sympathy with an attitude of "with the greatest regret, we must...." than with our President making it obvious to every world leader from the get-go that he was going into Iraq with or without support because he was right and everyone who questioned him was wrong.

At the very least, if Mr. Bush was determined to go into Iraq alone, he should have set up an office to plan the aftermath of the war much sooner than 3 weeks before the war started. This administration seemed so surprised that Iraqi citizens are so disgruntled, but we didn't even make sure that the priceless treasures, now lost forever, of ancient Mesopotamia were protected, much less that Bagdad residents had water and food. The borders were left almost wide open and Iraq is now an incubator for terrorists far beyond what it was under Saddam.

Under Saddam, at least Iraqi citizens could have dreamed that if the United States were to someday rescue them they would be safe. We owed it to them to look the way we looked when we liberated nations in WWII. Instead Iraqis are left with photos from the prison scandal. People have long memories, and we will all have to live with the impressions we have made for 100 years.

I think we still needed to go into Iraq at some point, even for humanitarian reasons alone. But how we did it was as least as important as that we did it, and as far as I am concerned, a lot of mistakes have been made.

 

[ThAnswr]

Originally posted by KarenC
It's not entirely clear that the US did nothing during the 1980's. We may have armed Iraq.

US government documents showed that from 1985 to 1989 pathogenic, toxigenic, and other hazardous materials were legally exported from the United States to Iraq.

The list of biological items legally exported during that period includes botulinum toxin, anthrax, gas gangrene, and vials of West Nile fever virus and Dengue fever.

http://www.cursor.org/stories/burying_news_on_iraq.htm

Hell, the Reagan administration armed Iran too.

Here's a walk down memory lane:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/press.htm

And here's one I just had to share:

http://www.internetweekly.org/2004/07/cartoon_cheney_toupee.html

 

[ThAnswr]

Originally posted by Broken8ball
He also was the source of funding for Hezbollah and Hammas and paid large sums of money to the relatives of the suicide bombers attacking Israel.

Get your facts straight.

The source of funding for Hezbollah is Iran and Syria and NOT Iraq and the source of funding for Hamas is Palestinian ex-pats, Saudi Arabia, and Iran, and again, NOT Iraq.

http://cfrterrorism.org/groups/hezbollah.html

http://cfrterrorism.org/groups/hamas.html

Any other "facts" you care to share so they be proven wrong?

 

[ThAnswr]

Originally posted by MICKEY88
yes please do get your facts straight..Saddam kicked the inspectors out several times, allowing them back only when threatened with military action..

The weapons inspectors left Iraq in Spring 2003 because of the warnings of the coming war by the Bush administration.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-03-17-inspectors-iraq_x.htm

 

[gottaluvPluto]

For the person who told me to think about it .... body bags .....
I have thought about it, a lot. I have been to several funerals, talked with family and friends of the soldier. I hung out with these soldiers ..... It is very sad, I cry and I say prayers everyday for men and women in the uniform. I even say prayers for the ones who are not in Iraq .

I have to go to work. I just needed to reply about the commet. Write more later.

 

[DisneyMarine]

It saddens me that there is a growing minority in this country that lack the intestinal fortitude for armed conflict. I don't like war, I would be the one ducking bullets, but we need to finish what we start. This war started in 1991, there has been a cease fire since then and Saddam has violated it many times by trying to shoot down our aircraft in the no-fly zone, but nobody cares about that. Now we have the Democrats saying Bush lied, I guess the intelligence he gets from the CIA should be screened by maybe...France? France was selling weapons to Iraq in violation of the UN sanctions, no one cares. The UN is corrupt, no one cares. Even Clinton, Gore and Kerry said Saddam had WMDs, no one cares.

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

"[W]ithout question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his contin ued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ..."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003.

Now, all of a sudden, Saddam has no WMDs? Well, I'm glad to see we are all willing to give a vicious dictator a pass but not our own President. Sad. I'm so glad I'm an independent. I'm sure many of you don't realize that the Democrats are really striking a nerve with the troops fighting, they keep seeing these people on Al Jezeera, you couldn't buy this kind of propaganda! Just to let all of you know, I'm not a victim, nor did I have no other option but the military as Michael Moore and Andy Rooney would have you believe. I actually left the military, attended college, got a job and started to miss the military so I re-enlisted. There are many more like me. Most of the veterans and careerist can't stand Kerry, Just for reference:

www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com

http://www.vetsagainstkerry.org

http://www.vnsfvetakerry.com

http://www.i-served.com/v-v-a-r.org/Bush-Kerry_POLL.html

http://www.swiftvets.com/

I hope you get the idea. I figure, if the people that know him and worked with him won't vote for him, why in the world would I? Remember that Al Gore was a representative from Tennessee, and didn't carry his home state. They knew something.

And finally, I wouldn't vote Democrat for one personal reason, they don't know how to use the military effectively, and are reluctant to give us new or necessary equipment (I've been in since '83 so I know this first hand) no matter what they say to the contrary. Don't tell me that Kosovo was successful I have an Army buddy who's unit is always going back there to quell things, you just don't hear about it. The troops want to stay and finish this and they like having a President that they feel can't be pushed around by the likes of France and the UN. Just some food for thought.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Originally posted by gottaluvPluto
For the person who told me to think about it .... body bags .....
I have thought about it, a lot. I have been to several funerals, talked with family and friends of the soldier. I hung out with these soldiers ..... It is very sad, I cry and I say prayers everyday for men and women in the uniform. I even say prayers for the ones who are not in Iraq .

I have to go to work. I just needed to reply about the commet. Write more later.

After I said that to you last night, I felt kind of bad. I hope that I haven't upset you. It's an issue that is very close to me also. This is the way that I feel is the best way to deal with it now.

I kind of feel like they can't really exercise the right to question what is going on, like I can. So I want to go to the extreme to get that element out there.

It really is hard to talk about it in some ways. It goes much deeper than "just politics" for me. A lot of times after I debate whether or not we should be at war, it leaves a feeling of depression for awhile. It really is an emotional issue.

Take care,
I look forward to reading your posts!

 

[wvrevy]

So, let's see....We've got one idiot on here calling people commies because they disagree with the current administration (though I tend to think he should update his moronic taunts to "Islamic fundamentalists" to keep with the times).....another person who thinks that democrats are aiding the enemy (these people just kill me...they claim to love America, but clearly hate the freedom of speech and the freedom to disagree with your government that truly make America great)....another person that thinks that we somehow "lack the intestinal fortitude for armed conflict" (despite the fact that our candidate has actually BEEN to armed conflict, while theirs was cowering in Alabama)....and another person that thinks that, because people make fun of the president sounding like a nervous teenager every time he gets in front of a microphone, we somehow don't also have real grievances.

That sound about right ?

Oh, and we also have the relatively few cogent arguments from the right (jrydberg, a few others (you know who you are)). It's a shame there aren't a heckuva lot more from that direction, but I guess they are just following the lead of Bush and his attack goons.

 

[jrydberg]

Kinda makes me wonder if I should consider switching positions, wvrevy

 

[DisneyMarine]

Originally posted by wvrevy
....another person that thinks that we somehow "lack the intestinal fortitude for armed conflict" (despite the fact that our candidate has actually BEEN to armed conflict, while theirs was cowering in Alabama.

Why all of the anger wvrevy? I didn't attack anyone's views, you can always say what you want. I'm just telling you how I see it, just like you do. Also, just because Kerry has seen some combat that does not automatically give him credibility with vets and the military, check out the links on my last post. I'm a career Marine, I don't like him. My Father in law is a retired viet nam vet, he especially doesn't like him. Combat sevice isn't a qualifyer for President, look at Clinton.

By the way, I'm an Independent, I have voted Democratic in the past and maybe will again. Who knows?

 

[Galahad]

Originally posted by faithinkarma
It took me a minute or two to realize what a low blow that one was. I don't believe I have ever thrown any mistake of yours back in your face. Lately you have taken to slipping in snide little remarks like that. You never used to use tactics like that. And it occurs to me that as I am searching for other sites I am simply wasting my time as apparently you reserve the right to disbelieve at will. So let's just say I don't believe Kerry was being arrogant when he said he spoke French, and call it even.

Sorry. It was not intended to be a blow, low or otherwise. (or a "tactic" for that matter). I don't even remember who posted about Sandy Berger. Surely you remember all of the bilge said about President Clinton. It was generally generated by a handful of right wing nut cases. Many were inclined to believe it because they already had a certain amount of dislike for Clinton. The original reason they disliked Clinton may have been perfectly valid for them, but the myths they began they began to believe were not. I think the same thing happens about all politicians to an extent these days. There is a lot of similar bilge flying around about Bush. That was my only point and it wasn't directed at you. I'm sorry you saw it that way.

 

[acepepper]

Originally posted by shortbun
Nearly
1000 Americans are dead. I don't know the loss of life in Iraq in
total. I'm not sure I want to know.

Somewhere between 11,500 and 13,500. http://iraqbodycount.com/forum/

 

[wvrevy]

Originally posted by jrydberg
Kinda makes me wonder if I should consider switching positions, wvrevy

I didn't say I agreed with you, just that you make a good argument (and one that doesn't sound like it was voiced by a third grader ).....So in other words, I still think you're wrong, just in a more classy way that some others on your side of the fence

Originally posted by disneymarine
Why all of the anger wvrevy? I didn't attack anyone's views, you can always say what you want. I'm just telling you how I see it, just like you do. Also, just because Kerry has seen some combat that does not automatically give him credibility with vets and the military, check out the links on my last post. I'm a career Marine, I don't like him. My Father in law is a retired viet nam vet, he especially doesn't like him. Combat sevice isn't a qualifyer for President, look at Clinton.

By the way, I'm an Independent, I have voted Democratic in the past and maybe will again. Who knows?

Why the anger ? Look back through just this thread. Democrats have been called everything from un-American to idiots to commies...and you ask about my anger ?

Nobody ever said that service was a prerequisite for serving as president. I happen to think Clinton was a very good president, and he obviously never served either. But this president (as well as his supporters) tries to paint anyone that disagrees with him as unpatriotic and somehow less willing to defend this country from it's very real enemies, and that is a load of crap, to put it bluntly. When Shrub was avoiding duty by defending Alabama from the Vietcong, Kerry put his life on the line for what he believed in. Most vets don't like him because of what he did after he came back, but you can't help but at least giving him credit for going, when he could just as easily have joined the national guard or found some other way to duck out.

Look, it's pointless to argue that former military personnel support Bush more-so than Kerry, for one simple reason: former military people are about as conservative a group as you can possibly get, short of fundamentalist Christians. They'd support Bobo the Chimp if he was running as a hawk on the Republican ticket. That's just plain fact. But you'll notice that quite a few of the upper eschelon of military commanders, including two of the three Chiefs of Staff of the Air Force and at lest one Chairman of the Joint Chiefs during my own military service, support John Kerry, NOT George Bush.

Kerry said it well in his convention speech: he will never hesitate to use our military strength when it is NECESSARY for defending our way of life. But he will also NEVER send our troops into battle without 1st having exhausted every other option, and without a firm plan to win both the war, and the peace following it.