Political: To Die Hard Republicans

septbride2002

"TO MILE 9!!!"
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Sep 30, 2003
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I thought this article was interesting and wanted to see what the opinion of some die hard republicans are about the shift from the idea of smaller government to what President Bush is doing.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6936733/

President Bush's second-term agenda would expand not only the size of the federal government but also its influence over the lives of millions of Americans by imposing new national restrictions on high schools, court cases and marriages.

In a clear break from Republican campaigns of the 1990s to downsize government and devolve power to the states, Bush is fostering what amounts to an era of new federalism in which the national government shapes, not shrinks, programs and institutions to comport with various conservative ideals, according to Republicans inside and outside the White House.

Bush is calling for new federal accountability and testing requirements for all public high schools, after imposing similar mandates on grades three through eight during his first term. To limit lawsuits against businesses and professionals, he is proposing to put a federal cap on damage awards for medical malpractice, to force class-action cases into federal courts and to help create a national settlement of outstanding asbestos-related cases.

On social policy, the president is pushing a constitutional amendment to outlaw same-sex marriage in the states and continuing to define and expand the federal government's role in encouraging religious groups to help administer social programs such as community drug-rehabilitation efforts.

"We have moved from devolution, which was just pushing back as much power as possible to the states, back to where government is limited but active," said John Bridgeland, director of Bush's domestic policy council in the first term. Bridgeland and current White House officials see Bush's governing philosophy as a smart way to modernize the government, empower individuals and broaden the appeal of the GOP.

Bush maintains a stated desire to streamline the government. On Monday, he sent Congress a budget that would eliminate or consolidate 150 programs. But a growing number of conservatives are uneasy with what they deride as "big-government conservatism."

"He keeps expanding the federal involvement into state and local affairs," said Chris Edwards, a tax and budget expert at the Cato Institute, a think tank that often supports the president's agenda. "My hope would be that there would be an electoral rebuke of big [-government] Republicans like there was when the tectonic plates shifted in 1994."

Rep. Mike Pence (R-Ind.), said: "The Republican majority, left to its own devices from 1995 to 2000, was a party committed to limited government and restoring the balances of federalism with the states. Clearly, President Bush has had a different vision, and that vision has resulted in education and welfare policies that have increased the size and scope of government."

'A non-starter'
Pence, an influential leader of House conservatives, said 50 Republicans gathered in Baltimore this past week and discussed, among other things, an overwhelming desire to protest the expansion of government by opposing Bush's education plan for high school students. While only 33 House Republicans opposed the No Child Left Behind law in the first term, Pence predicted that a significantly larger number will vote against expanding the program to cover high schools. Michael Franc of the Heritage Foundation, a pro-Bush think tank, agreed. "It's a non-starter" in the minds of a large number of Republicans, he said.

In many ways, Bush is simply accelerating the trend toward a bigger, more activist government that was started early in his presidency. Bush not only greatly expanded the federal education system with the No Child Left Behind law, but he also signed the largest expansion of Medicare benefits when he added prescription drug coverage to the program in 2003. The Medicare plan alone is now estimated to cost at least $720 billion over the next decade. Reacting to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, Bush created the Department of Homeland Security, provided the federal government broad surveillance powers through the USA Patriot Act, and requested a significantly larger national defense budget.

All of this is a far cry from Republican dogma circa 1995 -- the year of the Republican Revolution. Back then, GOP leaders from Sen. Robert J. Dole (Kan.) to House Speaker Newt Gingrich (Ga.) talked of eliminating entire Cabinet departments, including Education, shrinking government, and returning power to the states and the people.

"If I have one goal for the 104th Congress, it is this: that we will dust off the 10th Amendment and restore it to its rightful place in the Constitution," then-Senate Majority Leader Dole said in his first speech of January 1995. "We will continue in our drive to return power to our states and our people." Republicans talked of devolution, ending "unfunded mandates" and killing government programs with the same zeal they reserve today for fighting terrorists and restructuring Social Security.

In some areas, Bush has moved to reduce the size of government. The president signed three tax cuts into law in the first term, shrinking government receipts; held non-defense discretionary spending to a nominal increase in last year's budget; and is calling for similar austerity in this year's budget.

More spending, bigger deficits
Even so, spending -- and budget deficits -- have exploded under Bush. The government spent $2.3 trillion and ran a $412 billion deficit in 2004, compared with the $1.8 trillion it spent and the $86 billion surplus it ran in the final full year of the Clinton administration.

Despite the deep cuts in domestic programs in Bush's budget, his second-term agenda is focused more on rethinking than shrinking the federal government's role. Even the president's plan to create individual Social Security accounts, billed as providing Americans more control over their retirements, would require a bigger bureaucracy to administer.

Pence said the only reason Republicans have not paid a political price for overseeing a huge growth in government has been the failure of Democrats to field a deficit hawk as a presidential candidate and to capitalize on the public appetite for smaller government. "I think to the extent Republicans depart from the historic commitment, we do so at our peril."

Yet most of Pence's colleagues have not fought Bush's expansion of the federal government. They recently rejected budget rules that could help slow spending and voted in large numbers for the entire Bush agenda over the past four years. A large majority supports Bush's plans to grow the federal role over lawsuits, marriages and other social policies.

Bush, never seen as a big fan of shrinking government, has chosen to redefine the Republican Party as more activist, "compassionate" and committed to providing individuals a lift through government policies, aides say. In doing so, he often pushes policies that require conservatives to sacrifice one principle to accomplish another.

Consider education and lawsuits. To win tough testing standards and impose accountability, two goals of many conservatives, Bush pushed through a huge increase in education spending and expanded the federal government's power to police schools, two ideas that would have been viewed by Republicans as heresy a decade ago.

As for lawsuits, Bush and most Republicans support a federal cap on punitive damages in medical liability cases -- which would usurp the power of states -- to create a freer, less costly and more predictable marketplace for doctors and consumers. Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.), who was first elected to the House in 1994, calls this anathema to the GOP's states'-rights philosophy.

© 2005 The Washington Post Company
 
I know as a Dem, I'm confused by Bush's policies. Since when does smaller government mean making it bigger? Although I did agree with the creation of Homeland Security (all our intel and efforts SHOULD be centralized) I've been befuddled that a man that says he believes in a smaller government that stays out of peoples lives wants to meddle with so much!

Maybe smaller government only means lower taxes for corporations and millionares????
 
Just to clarify I am NOT saying that all of the programs Bush created are bad - I just would like to know what Republicans think of this because it really does go against the usual train of thought.

~Amanda
 
I'm a little confused as to how President Bush and many of supporters can call themselves Conservatives. I thought the very core of Conservative stance is less government. It seems pretty obvious that is not the President's agenda. Is this the new conservative?
 

Maybe I'll get back to you after I finish reading Ann Coulter's book, "How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must)".
:rotfl: :rotfl2:
Just kidding!! ;)
Seriously, YOU might really be interested in others opinions, but I think most dems would enjoy this conversation more amongst themselves doing the typical Bush bashing.
I don't care anymore though - FOUR MORE YEARS, BABY!!! :banana:
 
brermomof2 said:
Maybe I'll get back to you after I finish reading Ann Coulter's book, "How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must)".
:rotfl: :rotfl2:
Just kidding!! ;)
Seriously, YOU might really be interested in others opinions, but I think most dems would enjoy this conversation more amongst themselves doing the typical Bush bashing.
I don't care anymore though - FOUR MORE YEARS, BABY!!! :banana:

But after all of that you have no answer?
 
I guess there are no talking points on this issue.
 
brermomof2 said:
Maybe I'll get back to you after I finish reading Ann Coulter's book, "How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must)".
:rotfl: :rotfl2:
Just kidding!! ;)
Seriously, YOU might really be interested in others opinions, but I think most dems would enjoy this conversation more amongst themselves doing the typical Bush bashing.
I don't care anymore though - FOUR MORE YEARS, BABY!!! :banana:


Well for 1) I am not asking for Bush bashing. This actually could be a grown up conversation about the change the Republican party is making. If you don't wish to participate then you don't have to.

By they way - I HATE the title of that book and find it to be very condscending.

~Amanda
 
It's not like anyone could say anything to enlighten you anyway - so why really ask other than having a reason to disagree.

I gave up on trying to explain to my liberal friends and family why I support Bush a long time ago. The same way I gave up trying to explain why we go to Disney all the time. Some people will never get it. :rolleyes:

That's ok though, because they can live in fear of anyone who would threaten their little ecosystem, and I will continue to be a hopeful optimist for the future.

Now I know this is good therapy for all of you - so keep it up!!! :cheer2:
 
I have no doubt that the federal gov't is shrinking. And zero interest in debating it - Cato and the Heritage Foundation do not set policy for anyone but Cato and the Heritage Foundation. I am glad that the push for a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage seems to have ended - it is a state's rights issue.
 
I'm not a big supporter of Bush for those very reasons. I'm for smaller government, less government intrusion into private life, etc.

Edited to add: I don't really consider myself Republican, though.
 
oh come on! Asking someone their opinion is now Bush bashing?
I certainly can't speak for anyone else, but I do know for certain there is a definite interest in the subject and no - it's not any way related to Bush bashing.
 
brermomof2 said:
It's not like anyone could say anything to enlighten you anyway - so why really ask other than having a reason to disagree.

I gave up on trying to explain to my liberal friends and family why I support Bush a long time ago. The same way I gave up trying to explain why we go to Disney all the time. Some people will never get it. :rolleyes:

That's ok though, because they can live in fear of anyone who would threaten their little ecosystem, and I will continue to be a hopeful optimist for the future.

Now I know this is good therapy for all of you - so keep it up!!! :cheer2:

No one's asking you to defend or explain your reasons for voting the way you did. The OP is asking your opinion on how the new shift the Republican party seems to be leaning towards. I asked if the old term Conservative is now obsolete and now has a new meaning. It's a valid question and is no way a slam on the President or those who voted for him.

Oh and I don't live in fear but thanks for your permission to live that way
 
Asking for an opinion is hardly Bush bashing.

This, however, could be:

brermomof2 said:
That's ok though, because they can live in fear of anyone who would threaten their little ecosystem, and I will continue to be a hopeful optimist for the future.

Bush is definitely a threat to the ecosystem :flower2:
 
I voted for Bush and do not consider the question or the conversation as Bush bashing. Unfortunately, lately here as well as just about anywhere when someone questions a political decsion many will consider it political bashing. I do not and never have agreed with everything a party or candidate stands for. On to the question. In my view Bush is not a true consrvative. Since the times of FDR I think there has been a major shift of the entire political spectrum to the left. Many of todays liberals would have been considered radicals in FDR's Democratic Party while most of todays Republicans would have fit very nicely into the Democratic party of that era. A true Conservative of today believes in absolute security of our borders, Bush does not. A conservative believes in less government and reduced spending, Bush does not. A true conservative believes in the preservation of the American culture and a high degree of nationalism, Bush does not. The old paradigm of Republicans as conservatives and Democrats as liberals with each being just a little to the left and right of center no longer exsists. The whole spectrum has shifted to the left.
 
I wonder the same thing. I'm actually fairly moderate. I'm a social liberal and conservative on fiscal issues. I support free trade and am suspicious of overzealous government regulation. I have fairly in-depth professional knowledge of how our capital markets and our economy work and I work in what could be considered a terrorist target. For me, politics is not a spectator sport. I don't choose to vote for someone because he's on "my side". I choose to vote for him because I believe his policies will be the best for our country.

Generally, in my adult life I have found myself approving of our president, even if I don't agree with him on every issue. It surprises me that I can't support this president on any issue and amazes me that anyone who values fiscal restraint can support this president. There seems to be a lack of intellectual honesty around. It makes me sad. We are enriching those who've already made it at the expense of our children and jeopardizing our national security along the way.
 
Oops!! Sorry I'm the only conservative to have chimed in with an opinion and for not following your rules. So talk amongst yourselves. :cool1:


brerrabbit said:
I voted for Bush and do not consider the question or the conversation as Bush bashing. Unfortunately, lately here as well as just about anywhere when someone questions a political decsion many will consider it political bashing. I do not and never have agreed with everything a party or candidate stands for. On to the question. In my view Bush is not a true consrvative. Since the times of FDR I think there has been a major shift of the entire political spectrum to the left. Many of todays liberals would have been considered radicals in FDR's Democratic Party while most of todays Republicans would have fit very nicely into the Democratic party of that era. A true Conservative of today believes in absolute security of our borders, Bush does not. A conservative believes in less government and reduced spending, Bush does not. A true conservative believes in the preservation of the American culture and a high degree of nationalism, Bush does not. The old paradigm of Republicans as conservatives and Democrats as liberals with each being just a little to the left and right of center no longer exsists. The whole spectrum has shifted to the left.

Cool!!! A nonconservative who voted for Bush. But I don't get it. You would vote for someone who doesn't believe in the preservation of American culture?? Nevermind, don't answer me. I really don't belong here. Peace. :flower:
 
brerrabbit said:
A true Conservative of today believes in absolute security of our borders, Bush does not. A conservative believes in less government and reduced spending, Bush does not. A true conservative believes in the preservation of the American culture and a high degree of nationalism, Bush does not. The old paradigm of Republicans as conservatives and Democrats as liberals with each being just a little to the left and right of center no longer exists. The whole spectrum has shifted to the left.

and/or, righties have shifted further to the right. Which isn't pretty either.
 
I'm probably more conservative and voted for Bush, but as far as his spending and budget goes, he does appear to appeal to the big government contingent. Cutting non defense areas looks good on paper, but I wonder how sincere he really is about it. None of this budget appears to address deficit issues and based on where we are, it sure seems like tax hikes are bound to come. Which ironically may turn out to be Bush's legacy.

I found this article in the LA Times on target

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...ss_lat,0,4635030.story?coll=la-home-headlines

This Republican Party is much less fiscally conservative than the one that took Congress 10 years ago," said Brian M. Riedl, a budget analyst at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative research and policy center in Washington. "That Congress believed in eliminating entire departments that weren't justified. You don't hear that these days. I wish we did."

Sad, but true.
 
brerrabbit said:
The old paradigm of Republicans as conservatives and Democrats as liberals with each being just a little to the left and right of center no longer exsists. The whole spectrum has shifted to the left.

I would agree with that.

Thank you for your reply; I thought it was interesting to hear your perspective on whether you think Bush is a traditional conservative type.

Like you, there's no politician I'll ever entirely agree with (unless I run for office myself), nor is there a politician I'll ever completely disagree with.

brermomof2, yes, yes, we're all aware of Bush's reelection. Thank you for reminding those of us who may have forgotten, though. ;)
 











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