Political: Oops...Ahnold lied

[wvrevy]

Gee...a liar on the podium at the republican national convention....wait...let me control my shock From CNN:
-----------------------------------------
Historians dispute Schwarzenegger's convention comments

Friday, September 3, 2004 Posted: 2:34 PM EDT (1834 GMT)

California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger speaks at convention.
VIENNA, Austria (AP) -- Austrian historians are challenging California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger for telling the Republican National Convention that he saw Soviet tanks in his homeland as a child and that he left a "Socialist" country when he moved away in 1968.

Recalling that the Soviets once occupied part of Austria in the aftermath of World War II, Schwarzenegger told the convention on Tuesday: "I saw tanks in the streets. I saw communism with my own eyes."

Historians, however, are questioning Schwarzenegger's version of postwar history -- if not his enduring popularity among Austrians who admire him for rising from a penniless immigrant to the highest official in America's most populous state.

"It's a fact -- as a child he could not have seen a Soviet tank in Styria," the southeastern province where Schwarzenegger was born and raised, historian Stefan Karner told the Vienna newspaper Kurier.

Schwarzenegger, now a naturalized U.S. citizen, was born on July 30, 1947, when Styria and the neighboring province of Carinthia belonged to the British zone. At the time, postwar Austria was occupied by the four wartime allies, which also included the United States, the Soviet Union and France.

The Soviets already had left Styria in July 1945, less than three months after the end of the war, Karner noted.

Margita Thompson, spokeswoman for Schwarzenegger, defended Schwarzenegger's speech.

"Never in there did the governor reference that the tanks were where he grew up. It was a reference to visiting Soviet-occupied Austria," she said.

In his convention address, Schwarzenegger also said: "As a kid, I saw the Socialist country that Austria became after the Soviets left" in 1955 and Austria regained its independence.

But Martin Polaschek, a law history scholar and vice rector of Graz University, told Kurier that Austria was governed by coalition governments, including the conservative People's Party and the Social Democratic Party. Between 1945 and 1970, all the nation's chancellors were conservatives -- not Socialists.

What's more, when Schwarzenegger left in 1968, Austria was run by a conservative government headed by People's Party Chancellor Josef Klaus, a staunch Roman Catholic and a sharp critic of both the Socialists and the Communists ruling in countries across the Iron Curtain.

Schwarzenegger "confuses a free country with a Socialist one," said Polaschek, referring to East European Communist officials' routine descriptions of their countries as Socialist.

Thompson said the governor was "talking about a socialistic-style of government and governing that he experienced when living in Austria."

Polaschek saw the moderate Republican governor's recollections at the convention as a tactical move. Schwarzenegger, he said, was "using the old Communist enemy image for Bush's election campaign."

"He did not speak as a historian, after all, but as a politician," Polaschek said.

Norbert Darabos, a ranking official of Austria's opposition Social Democratic Party, sharply criticized Schwarzenegger's "disdain for his former homeland."

"The Terminator is constructing a rather bizarre Austria image," he said.

But many ordinary Austrians seemed to be in a forgiving mood Friday over the gaffes.

"Maybe he has a wrong recollection -- it's so many years since he left," said Wilma Fadrany, 32, a Vienna waitress.

"There must be political reasons for such comments," she said. "You've got to tell the (convention delegates) what they want to hear in order to win them around. Politicians always talk the way it fits into their agenda." (Boy, ain't that the truth - WVRevy)

 

[spagheddie]

When do you think he'll announce that he really is a cyborg?

 

[jennyanydots]

you know, when I read his comments there was something that bothered me, but since I'm not really "up" on postwar Austria, I didn't know what it was.

 

[bsears]

You really have to wonder what would lead someone to make statements like this. Does he perhaps think they are true? Has he managed to embellish his own memories to the point where he can no longer distinguish what is reality? Or is he simply counting on no one daring to step forward and contradict him? I just don't get it. Perhaps, like Zell, he read it in an email and believed it

 

[Funkyzeit mit Bruno]

Originally posted by wvrevy
"It's a fact -- as a child he could not have seen a Soviet tank in Styria,"

Arnold never said anything about Styria.

This is the only paragraph where tanks are mentioned:

When I was a boy, the Soviets occupied part of Austria. I saw their tanks in the streets. I saw communism with my own eyes. I remember the fear we had when we had to cross into the Soviet sector. Growing up, we were told, "Don't look the soldiers in the eye. Look straight ahead." It was a common belief that Soviet soldiers could take a man out of his own car and ship him off to the Soviet Union as slave labor.

Specifically, what part of that is a lie?

 

[bubie2.5]

Surprise, surprise.

 

[spagheddie]

Originally posted by bsears
You really have to wonder what would lead someone to make statements like this. Does he perhaps think they are true? Has he managed to embellish his own memories to the point where he can no longer distinguish what is reality? Or is he simply counting on no one daring to step forward and contradict him? I just don't get it. Perhaps, like Zell, he read it in an email and believed it

Be fair, he has spent a good portion of his adult life in the fantasy world of movie sets. He's probably spent too much time getting into character. As result of this talent he became popular and powerful, reaching a point where his "people" go along with whatever crazy notion pops into his head for fear of falling off the crazy, I mean gravy train.

 

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by jennyanydots
you know, when I read his comments there was something that bothered me, but since I'm not really "up" on postwar Austria, I didn't know what it was.

Do you know now what it was?

Because I'm still trying to figure out where he lied about the Soviet tanks...perhaps you can enlighten me on that...

 

[bsears]

Recalling that the Soviets once occupied part of Austria in the aftermath of World War II, Schwarzenegger told the convention on Tuesday: "I saw tanks in the streets. I saw communism with my own eyes."

"It's a fact -- as a child he could not have seen a Soviet tank in Styria," the southeastern province where Schwarzenegger was born and raised, historian Stefan Karner told the Vienna newspaper Kurier.

Schwarzenegger, now a naturalized U.S. citizen, was born on July 30, 1947, when Styria and the neighboring province of Carinthia belonged to the British zone. At the time, postwar Austria was occupied by the four wartime allies, which also included the United States, the Soviet Union and France.

The Soviets already had left Styria in July 1945, less than three months after the end of the war, Karner noted.

In his convention address, Schwarzenegger also said: "As a kid, I saw the Socialist country that Austria became after the Soviets left" in 1955 and Austria regained its independence.

But Martin Polaschek, a law history scholar and vice rector of Graz University, told Kurier that Austria was governed by coalition governments, including the conservative People's Party and the Social Democratic Party. Between 1945 and 1970, all the nation's chancellors were conservatives -- not Socialists.

What's more, when Schwarzenegger left in 1968, Austria was run by a conservative government headed by People's Party Chancellor Josef Klaus, a staunch Roman Catholic and a sharp critic of both the Socialists and the Communists ruling in countries across the Iron Curtain.

Schwarzenegger "confuses a free country with a Socialist one," said Polaschek, referring to East European Communist officials' routine descriptions of their countries as Socialist.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/03/schwarzenegger.ap/index.html

 

[Teejay32]

I think from an Austrian point of view in Austria, they weren't Socialist. The view from California, USA is much different. I don't see a lie here.

 

[jennyanydots]

I wouldn't go so far as to call it an outright lie, but perhaps it was a bit of exxageration.

the Soviets left the part of Austria where Arnold was raised before Arnold was born. the Soviets remained in other parts of Austria until Arnold was 7, so perhaps, if he travelled to other parts of the country during his childhood, he did see Soviet tanks and soldiers in the street. but his comments sound as if he were lving in Soviet-occupied territory for much of his childhood.

unless we can track Arnold's every move from birth to age 7 with complete accuracy -- and who has the time for that -- we don't know if his statement about the tanks was an outright lie. but since he lived in the British zone, it's clear he embellsihed a bit.

and yes, teejay, the view from California in 2004 is a bit different than the view from NYC in 1968, which is also different from the view in Austria in 1967 or earlier -- though why Arnold invoked Nixon's name is a mystery -- have we rehabilitated Nixon that much? but apparently Arnold's opinions and recollections are a bit "off" -- Austria was not a socialist country i the 50's or 60's.

 

[jennyanydots]

and considering that his theme was "the Deomocrats lied", my thought is -- glass houses.

 

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by bsears
Recalling that the Soviets once occupied part of Austria in the aftermath of World War II, Schwarzenegger told the convention on Tuesday: "I saw tanks in the streets. I saw communism with my own eyes."

"It's a fact -- as a child he could not have seen a Soviet tank in Styria," the southeastern province where Schwarzenegger was born and raised, historian Stefan Karner told the Vienna newspaper Kurier.

Schwarzenegger, now a naturalized U.S. citizen, was born on July 30, 1947, when Styria and the neighboring province of Carinthia belonged to the British zone. At the time, postwar Austria was occupied by the four wartime allies, which also included the United States, the Soviet Union and France.

The Soviets already had left Styria in July 1945, less than three months after the end of the war, Karner noted.

In his convention address, Schwarzenegger also said: "As a kid, I saw the Socialist country that Austria became after the Soviets left" in 1955 and Austria regained its independence.

But Martin Polaschek, a law history scholar and vice rector of Graz University, told Kurier that Austria was governed by coalition governments, including the conservative People's Party and the Social Democratic Party. Between 1945 and 1970, all the nation's chancellors were conservatives -- not Socialists.

What's more, when Schwarzenegger left in 1968, Austria was run by a conservative government headed by People's Party Chancellor Josef Klaus, a staunch Roman Catholic and a sharp critic of both the Socialists and the Communists ruling in countries across the Iron Curtain.

Schwarzenegger "confuses a free country with a Socialist one," said Polaschek, referring to East European Communist officials' routine descriptions of their countries as Socialist.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/03/schwarzenegger.ap/index.html

Nice post - of course, you still haven't answered the question - where did he lie about seeing Soviet tanks when he was growing up? Because they weren't in the part of Austria where he was living?

I guess when my kids grow up and mention that they went through hurricane Charley, they'll be told they lied because Charley was in Florida, and they weren't living in Florida at that time...

"I saw tanks in the streets. I saw communism with my own eyes."

but his comments sound as if he were lving in Soviet-occupied territory for much of his childhood.

Hardly - he said he saw tanks and Communism. YOU may have taken it that he grew up in the midst of the Soviet sector, but I hardly see how that makes what he said an exaggeration.

 

[UncleKyle]

maybe he got it confused with the tanks in one of his movies Honest mistake IMHO

 

[charlie,nj]

This is the only line I remember:

To those critics who are so pessimistic about our economy, I say: 'Don't be economic girlie men!'"
-- Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger

 

[MJames41]

Originally posted by bsears
You really have to wonder what would lead someone to make statements like this. Does he perhaps think they are true? Has he managed to embellish his own memories to the point where he can no longer distinguish what is reality? Or is he simply counting on no one daring to step forward and contradict him? I just don't get it. Perhaps, like Zell, he read it in an email and believed it

Next he will be saying he was in Cambodia at Christmas...

 

[Kendra17]

When I was a boy, the Soviets occupied part of Austria. I saw their tanks in the streets. I saw communism with my own eyes. I remember [b[the fear we had when we had to cross into the Soviet sector[/b]. Growing up, we were told, "Don't look the soldiers in the eye. Look straight ahead." It was a common belief that Soviet soldiers could take a man out of his own car and ship him off to the Soviet Union as slave labor.

from his own statement, I can't see where he lied at all. Not even embellished. It sounds as if they lived in a free zone, but that they were fearful when they had to cross into the Soviet sector.

At least, this is what he said. . .no lie, no contradiction. By using the phrase, "The fear we had when we had to CROSS INTO the Soviet sector, it is clear they weren't IN the Soviet sector all the time. . .otherwise, they wouldn't be CROSSING INTO it. . .

How can one dispute that? Unless, of course, you are trying to find something to make him look bad.

Uhh, you did read, of course, what I posted on another thread about Kerry's campaign, right?

"Kerry's campaign was atttempting last week to respond to charges that Kerry, while serving on the Senate Intelligence Committee during the 90s, missed three-fourths of that committee's public hearings. The campaign claimed on its website August 16, "John Kerry served on the Senate Select COmmittee on Intelligence for 8 years and is the former vice chairman of the committee (emphasis mine). Actually, it was Sen. Bob Kerrey, not John Kerry who served as vice chairman of the committee. Kerry still hasn't answered calls to release his attendance record for these committee hearings."

Now. . .was that a LIE on Kerry's part? Or, do you think he and his campaign team made an innocent mistake? Do you think they are liars or just uninformed and made a stupid, uninformed mistake? If it's a lie, what's that mean to the campaign? If they're that uninformed, what does THAT mean to us?

Just a thought.

 

[bsears]

Seems to me that the misrepresentation was in claiming he left a socoalist country.

"As a kid, I saw the Socialist country that Austria became after the Soviets left"

But Martin Polaschek, a law history scholar and vice rector of Graz University, told Kurier that Austria was governed by coalition governments, including the conservative People's Party and the Social Democratic Party. Between 1945 and 1970, all the nation's chancellors were conservatives -- not Socialists.

Lie or not, it sure looks like an exageration to make a point. And you know perfectly well that had it come from the Kerry camp posters would be all over it.

It is also noteworthy that someone felt the need to immediately turn this into an anti Kerry thread. So typical....yeah, so what if he lied, Kerry lied too nanner nanner. Apparently they did not notice that posters said if Kerry had lied he was wrong. But here you all are, defending the indefensible once again. I just don't get why every single thing has to be defended. Do the republicans, like their leader, never make a mistake? I guess I just answered my own question as to why someone would do something like this. Because they know they can get away with it simply because some will defend what they say and do no matter what.

 

[cati]

xx

 

[Teejay32]

Originally posted by jennyanydots
and yes, teejay, the view from California in 2004 is a bit different than the view from NYC in 1968, which is also different from the view in Austria in 1967 or earlier -- though why Arnold invoked Nixon's name is a mystery -- have we rehabilitated Nixon that much? but apparently Arnold's opinions and recollections are a bit "off" -- Austria was not a socialist country i the 50's or 60's.

It's debatable whether Austria was Socialist or not, is what I meant. (They point out chancellors - what about Presidents?) By eastern Europe standards it was probably wasn't, by US standards it probably was.