Point Adjustments??

[stanmills34]

I was under the impression from our guide that the point chart never changed and that is why in the long run you saved money..The way he explained it to us was that it will always be that amount of points to stay just the price per point went up every year...

 

[Chuck S]

Point reallocations are allowed under the contract. This is the first major reallocation since 1996, and the first to affect all resorts at the same time. The first re-allocation was at OKW. Then there was a re-allocation very early after the start of BWV sales, to create the preferred/standard booking categories there.

DVC has an obligation to keep demand/supply in balance as much as possible, in fact all point based timeshares do. If too many rooms were sitting empty on the weekend, and everyone was booking Sun-Thur, it creates an imbalance. Point based timeshares are designed to be at nearly 100% capacity every day. It is the only way the system can maintain itself.

 

[disneynutz]

The totals never change but everything else can.

 

[CarolMN]

..... The first re-allocation was at OKW. Then there was a re-allocation very early after the start of BWV sales, to create the preferred/standard booking categories there...........

At BWV, my recollection is that the total number of points to be sold was reduced. It wasn't really a reallocation that created the Standard View Category.

Apparently, there were many complaints about the views from the rooms that overlooked the black topped areas. In the beginning, those cost the same number of points per night as those overlooking the pools and the Boardwalk.

It must have been affecting sales, so that is why SV was added to the points chart. Since the resort wasn't anywhere near sold out when the charts were changed, DVC could just reduce the total points to be sold to make the new category cost less.

 

[ddave]

DVC has an obligation to keep demand/supply in balance as much as possible, in fact all point based timeshares do. If too many rooms were sitting empty on the weekend, and everyone was booking Sun-Thur, it creates an imbalance. Point based timeshares are designed to be at nearly 100% capacity every day. It is the only way the system can maintain itself.

Well put, and supply is growing with the addition of all the new DVCs. Adjustments have to be made. If rooms are empty there is the posibility that our dues would go even higher! It must cost something to have empty rooms. Also, based on the 100% capacity item mentioned above, if a large percentage of rooms are empty on the weekends, then someone is not using points. So someone is not getting the reservation they wanted because everyone is trying to cram 7 days of reservations (points) Sun-Sat into 5 days Sun-Thurs.

 

[stanmills34]

My biggest complaint of the whole thing is our guide told us that the point chart would look the sme in 45 years as it did the day we bought it and that the only thing that would go up would be the maint. fees..

 

[jwcrsf]

I am guessing that they have expanded way to much in this economy. I think it is a way to try to get members to add on for their normal stays. If this does not change by 2010, i will be looking to sell. Its bad enough the dues keep going up.

When i resort puts on a new roof, do DVC member pay the whole amount or do they figure in the non member that stay on cash as well?

 

[kerickson]

I am guessing that they have expanded way to much in this economy. I think it is a way to try to get members to add on for their normal stays. If this does not change by 2010, i will be looking to sell. Its bad enough the dues keep going up.

When i resort puts on a new roof, do DVC member pay the whole amount or do they figure in the non member that stay on cash as well?

Part of our maint fees go to a reserve budget which is used for large maint costs like roof repairs, remodeling, etc. I'm not exactly sure where the CRO revenue goes, but I'd assume it is allocated into the budget similar to our dues...

Also, IMHO I don't think Disney reallocated the points to get members to add on. If you look at the poll on a previous thread, you'll see that most people are not planning on adding on, especially now that the min is 100pts. Most people will adjust their vacation plans which is exactly what Disney was trying to acheive. Now whether the adjustments result in more members staying on weekends and slow seasons remains to be seen...

 

[Chuck S]

Just to clarify...the minimum add-on is 100 points for BLT ONLY, all other existing resorts can still add 25 points (cash) or 50 points (financing). I think Hawaii and California will also be a 100 point minimums, probably all future DVCs will be.

 

[gonzalj1]

I am guessing that they have expanded way to much in this economy. I think it is a way to try to get members to add on for their normal stays. If this does not change by 2010, i will be looking to sell. Its bad enough the dues keep going up.

When i resort puts on a new roof, do DVC member pay the whole amount or do they figure in the non member that stay on cash as well?

Let's not forget, for any increase in points there must be a corresponding decrease in points somewhere else. As a previous poster pointed out the total number of points for the resort can not change.

So, some are complaining that their vacations will now cost them more points. Although this may be true for many families many will see a reduction in the number of points required for their vacations. In fact, I am now able to add an extra day to my planned 2010-2011 stays because of the change.

I don't see how Disney ends up with a windfall here. Some will probably purchase additional points. Many of these I assume will be through resale and NOT Disney direct. Disney makes no money on these sales as the points are already sold and the maintenance fees already being collected.

Disney may see a small bump in add ons at the sold out resorts but I hardly doubt it will be significant engougg to justify the costs to handle the numerous complaints that I assume are coming in from folks who aren't happy with the change. Based on the reaction on these boards one would think that Disney just raised the points requirement for all stays by 50%!!

 

[Inkmahm]

Let's not forget, for any increase in points there must be a corresponding decrease in points somewhere else. As a previous poster pointed out the total number of points for the resort can not change.

So, some are complaining that their vacations will now cost them more points. Although this may be true for many families many will see a reduction in the number of points required for their vacations. In fact, I am now able to add an extra day to my planned 2010-2011 stays because of the change.

I don't see how Disney ends up with a windfall here. Some will probably purchase additional points. Many of these I assume will be through resale and NOT Disney direct. Disney makes no money on these sales as the points are already sold and the maintenance fees already being collected.

Disney may see a small bump in add ons at the sold out resorts but I hardly doubt it will be significant engougg to justify the costs to handle the numerous complaints that I assume are coming in from folks who aren't happy with the change. Based on the reaction on these boards one would think that Disney just raised the points requirement for all stays by 50%!!

Amen!

 

[jwcrsf]

So when disney is giving away 3 free days and $200 to attract new people. The people that can count on coming often pay more. For my normal once a year stay i will need more points. I understand that people that stay over weekend and have more point it will be a push or even work out better. From talking with the person that sold us our DVC , most of the people are on the lower end.

 

[disneynutz]

I am guessing that they have expanded way to much in this economy. I think it is a way to try to get members to add on for their normal stays. If this does not change by 2010, i will be looking to sell. Its bad enough the dues keep going up.

When i resort puts on a new roof, do DVC member pay the whole amount or do they figure in the non member that stay on cash as well?

I have always wondered who watches over DVD and DVC and verifies their accounting. How many rooms are really vacant?

Any time that we have tried to switch rooms due to maintenance issues, we are told that they are sold out.

 

[tink too]

I was under the impression from our guide that the point chart never changed and that is why in the long run you saved money..The way he explained it to us was that it will always be that amount of points to stay just the price per point went up every year...

My biggest complaint of the whole thing is our guide told us that the point chart would look the sme in 45 years as it did the day we bought it and that the only thing that would go up would be the maint. fees..

Not sure when you bought in (we did last May) and we were told the same as you. I won't be happy if our points will now not allow our "normal" 2 week vacation. There's no way I'm taking a 9 hour flight to get to WDW to stay for 1 week and then have loads of points left over (but not enough for a 2nd week).

 

[Deb & Bill]

My biggest complaint of the whole thing is our guide told us that the point chart would look the sme in 45 years as it did the day we bought it and that the only thing that would go up would be the maint. fees..

Not sure when you bought in (we did last May) and we were told the same as you. I won't be happy if our points will now not allow our "normal" 2 week vacation. There's no way I'm taking a 9 hour flight to get to WDW to stay for 1 week and then have loads of points left over (but not enough for a 2nd week).

Either you had an inept guide, a guide who could talk around the facts or you really didn't hear what he/she told you. A guide can tell you anything but if it's not in writing (and all this is in writing in the Public Offering Statement) it's not worth anything.

 

[Chuck S]

So when disney is giving away 3 free days and $200 to attract new people. The people that can count on coming often pay more. For my normal once a year stay i will need more points. I understand that people that stay over weekend and have more point it will be a push or even work out better. From talking with the person that sold us our DVC , most of the people are on the lower end.

I did a cost comparision, apples to apples, an OKW studio on the cash 4/3 promotion vs a point stay with the point estimated at $10 each. I included taxes in the cash room, and add comparable tickets to the pont stay. The point stay was over $450 cheaper, and $10 is a little high for a current estimate of actual point costs.

 

[jwcrsf]

Could you please show me the breakdown, i would love to see it. Does this included annual dues and a percentage of the cost of membership? I thought point were going for $11 dollars on average these days not $10...

 

[gonzalj1]

I know I'm going to rile some people up with this but it doesn't matter what the guide told you. What matters and what is legal is what is in the contract. I knew when I signed that point reallocations were a possibility because I read the contract. I also knew from these boards (before I signed) that a point reallocation had occurred once.

I also think that if folks want to guarantee the exact timeframe and length of your vacations, due to the nature of the DVC system and possibility of point reallocations, then DVC is not the right product for you. The best timeshare product for these folks is one where you purchase full weeks that are dedicated.

Of course, you lose the flexibility of being able to determine the length of stay, unit type, resort etc. All those things that made DVC so attractive for my family.

I see the controversy as a result of folks being less than informed about the product they purchased. This was a risk we all took. We all accepted the risk when we handed over our cash to the mouse. Now the risk has come to pass and people are shocked and outraged. I just don't get it.

 

[jwcrsf]

I knew the risk and was well informed.. I am guessing the reason point were so much more on the weekend is they had more of a demand for weekend and would rather have cash paying people or people willing to fork over twice as many points to do so. Now that the economy is bad i am guessing less cash people on the weekend so they are making adjustments.
I think my point is the DVC people are the loyal and steady customers and why would they not being doing more for us. To me this is less, but then again i am less informed.......

 

[Chuck S]

Could you please show me the breakdown, i would love to see it. Does this included annual dues and a percentage of the cost of membership? I thought point were going for $11 dollars on average these days not $10...

Estimating at $10 per point INCLUDES your buy in cost and dues for that year, or else folks wouldn't be renting their points at $10.

Even at $100 per point/50 years of ownership is $2 plus an overestimate of $8 for dues when dues aren't currently that high, is your $10.

OKW studios are 80 points a week in Adventure season. That is $800.

Add 2 7 day adult base tickets, including tax. That is $456 or $1256 total for the DVC studio and base tickets for two adults.

The 4/3 package in an OKW studio is $1910 including tax, less the $200 gift card = $1710.

1710-1256 = $454 savings with DVC.