Planning and Australia ABD - need advice

[zanzibar138]

thanks Aussie Wendy! We are definitely adding Melbourne--and we'd like to do the Blue Mountains, if there were any way to fit that in. We heard that the train from the south end (near Melbourne) to Darwin was a great trip--so maybe we'd fly into Melbourne for a few days, then train north to Darwin and fly from there to Cairns to start the ABD trip...then at the end fly to Sydney and do a day trip to the Blue Mtns before flying home. Might be too much--time, cost...but I'm working on a dream trip first before scaling back. Think this would be a do-able itinerary?

I just want to make sure you realise what's involved with taking the Ghan from Adelaide to Darwin. First of all, Adelaide is not 'near Melbourne'. It will take you a full day on the train (Overland) or driving (I would recommend two for driving), or an hour or so flight. You would most likely need a night in Adelaide before you departed on the Ghan.

The Ghan takes one night to get to Alice Springs, then another night to get to Darwin. It arrives early in the evening, so you would likely need at least one night in Darwin before flying out (I suppose you could fly out that night, but that would just give you another night in Cairns before the ABD starts, and seems to be beside the point of going there). I believe the Australian trains have discounted prices for international visitors (which they need lol!). Going for a cabin though (which personally I would want for 2 nights!), it will still be expensive.

Don't get me wrong, this is one of the great train journeys, and definitely something I want to do one day. If you're pressed for time though, it's probably not the way to go. If you were going to do it, I would suggest one of the following itineraries.

Plan A - this would require you to hire a car and drive the beautiful Great Ocean Road
Melbourne - 1 night
Great Ocean Road - 1 night
Adelaide - 1 night
The Ghan - 2 nights
Darwin - 1 night
Total = 6 nights

Plan B - this involves taking the train from Melbourne to Adelaide
Melbourne - 1 night (could possibly ditch this if the flight/train times work out)
Adelaide - 1 night
The Ghan - 2 nights
Darwin - 1 night
Total = 4/5 nights

Plan C - this involves skipping Melbourne altogether, and just getting straight on a domestic flight to Adelaide
Adelaide - 1 night
The Ghan - 2 nights
Darwin - 1 night

I suppose it's possible to just do The Ghan if your flight/train times all line up, but I personally wouldn't want to come straight off a 20 hour flight and get onto a 2 night train ride, then get straight on another flight...

Now, onto your post-ABD plans. I think a day trip to the Blue Mountains could be worth it, if you've covered most of the rest of Sydney in your ABD. Maybe leave your plans open though, in case the ABD just gives you a taste of Sydney and you feel like you want more time there. You wouldn't need to book your Blue Mountains tour that far in advance (I assume you would do a tour rather than drive yourself?). Have you had a look at PIO's Blue Mountains TR?

Sorry this has turned into a novel I don't want to put you off taking the train either if that's what you want to do. I just want to make sure you're aware of the time and distance involved

 

[WeLoveABD]

I just want to make sure you realise what's involved with taking the Ghan from Adelaide to Darwin. First of all, Adelaide is not 'near Melbourne'. It will take you a full day on the train (Overland) or driving (I would recommend two for driving), or an hour or so flight. You would most likely need a night in Adelaide before you departed on the Ghan.

The Ghan takes one night to get to Alice Springs, then another night to get to Darwin. It arrives early in the evening, so you would likely need at least one night in Darwin before flying out (I suppose you could fly out that night, but that would just give you another night in Cairns before the ABD starts, and seems to be beside the point of going there). I believe the Australian trains have discounted prices for international visitors (which they need lol!). Going for a cabin though (which personally I would want for 2 nights!), it will still be expensive.

Don't get me wrong, this is one of the great train journeys, and definitely something I want to do one day. If you're pressed for time though, it's probably not the way to go. If you were going to do it, I would suggest one of the following itineraries.

Plan A - this would require you to hire a car and drive the beautiful Great Ocean Road
Melbourne - 1 night
Great Ocean Road - 1 night
Adelaide - 1 night
The Ghan - 2 nights
Darwin - 1 night
Total = 6 nights

Plan B - this involves taking the train from Melbourne to Adelaide
Melbourne - 1 night (could possibly ditch this if the flight/train times work out)
Adelaide - 1 night
The Ghan - 2 nights
Darwin - 1 night
Total = 4/5 nights

Plan C - this involves skipping Melbourne altogether, and just getting straight on a domestic flight to Adelaide
Adelaide - 1 night
The Ghan - 2 nights
Darwin - 1 night

I suppose it's possible to just do The Ghan if your flight/train times all line up, but I personally wouldn't want to come straight off a 20 hour flight and get onto a 2 night train ride, then get straight on another flight...

Now, onto your post-ABD plans. I think a day trip to the Blue Mountains could be worth it, if you've covered most of the rest of Sydney in your ABD. Maybe leave your plans open though, in case the ABD just gives you a taste of Sydney and you feel like you want more time there. You wouldn't need to book your Blue Mountains tour that far in advance (I assume you would do a tour rather than drive yourself?). Have you had a look at PIO's Blue Mountains TR?

Sorry this has turned into a novel I don't want to put you off taking the train either if that's what you want to do. I just want to make sure you're aware of the time and distance involved

Thanks very much for your very thoughtful input! Believe me, we appreciate the distances between cities and the size of Australia! The real difficulty is for us to try to take in everything we'd want to see on one trip, as we probably won't get back that way for a while given the long flight. That said, we were anticipating a week of pre-ABD days, and possible an extra day or two in Sydney after. But we are exploring all options--and the Ghan looked really interesting (on the train web site they say they are making changes to the Ghan trip starting in 2015). The Melbourne to Adelaide component of this trip hasn't been looked into very carefully by me--thanks for the heads up about that!

So now I am thinking we may want to fly into Melbourne, spend a few days there, then go to Sydney and do a day trip out to the Blue Mountains (with a guide or a guided group trip)...then up to start the ABD. The Ghan is very appealing--both because we love train trips, and because this is a noted train experience and would get us into central Australia. But...we have to work with our limited time and budget!

Fortunately this is trip is not until 2016 (June timeframe), so we have plenty of time to figure out our itinerary. You suggestions have been greatly appreciated and helpful!

 

[zanzibar138]

Thanks very much for your very thoughtful input! Believe me, we appreciate the distances between cities and the size of Australia! The real difficulty is for us to try to take in everything we'd want to see on one trip, as we probably won't get back that way for a while given the long flight. That said, we were anticipating a week of pre-ABD days, and possible an extra day or two in Sydney after. But we are exploring all options--and the Ghan looked really interesting (on the train web site they say they are making changes to the Ghan trip starting in 2015). The Melbourne to Adelaide component of this trip hasn't been looked into very carefully by me--thanks for the heads up about that!

So now I am thinking we may want to fly into Melbourne, spend a few days there, then go to Sydney and do a day trip out to the Blue Mountains (with a guide or a guided group trip)...then up to start the ABD. The Ghan is very appealing--both because we love train trips, and because this is a noted train experience and would get us into central Australia. But...we have to work with our limited time and budget!

Fortunately this is trip is not until 2016 (June timeframe), so we have plenty of time to figure out our itinerary. You suggestions have been greatly appreciated and helpful!

If you have a week before the trip, you could do it (albeit in a fairly rushed manner). To save time, maybe you could just take the train halfway (ie just from Adelaide to Alice Springs, or from Alice Springs to Darwin). Since you'll be visiting the red centre on your ABD, going to Alice Springs would be kind of doubling up, but then you could maybe add extra time in Melbourne, Adelaide or Darwin. If it's something you really want to do, then you could definitely do it

 

[Cousin Orville]

What about the Great Ocean Road? I've seen several people recommend spending 2 days doing it. Yet most private guides offer a 1 day option. What do you think is better? If possible I'd rather do the 1 day GOR drive and spend more time in Melbourne. We're considering flying into Melbourne and spending 3-5 days then flying up to Cairns for 1-2 days before the ABD starts. There's so many great things to see. I'd love to visit Yarra Valley, but don't think there will be enough time on this trip.

 

[PrincessInOz]

What about the Great Ocean Road? I've seen several people recommend spending 2 days doing it. Yet most private guides offer a 1 day option. What do you think is better? If possible I'd rather do the 1 day GOR drive and spend more time in Melbourne. We're considering flying into Melbourne and spending 3-5 days then flying up to Cairns for 1-2 days before the ABD starts. There's so many great things to see. I'd love to visit Yarra Valley, but don't think there will be enough time on this trip.

The GOR is a wonderful drive. If you want to see all the sights, then 2 days is a good timeframe so that you can stop and enjoy; rather than rushing through.

The Yarra Valley is an hour out of the Melbourne CBD. If you're spending 5 days, you might be able to fit it in. If you're going there to enjoy the wineries, then you can spend the day meandering between them. But if you only want to enjoy 2 or 3 of them, check out Healesville Sanctuary and see if you could combine the two.

 

[Cousin Orville]

Another question about Melbourne. Ever done the Center for the Moving Image? I'm trying to include things my 10yo DS might think is pretty cool.

 

[PrincessInOz]

Another question about Melbourne. Ever done the Center for the Moving Image? I'm trying to include things my 10yo DS might think is pretty cool.

ACMI? Yes. We tend to go when there are special exhibitions on. This year was Dreamworks.










If you're here during the school holiday period, they will also run special 2 hour long program for kids. This year, with the Dreamworks exhibition, they ran a program to allow kids to make their own movie using blue screen technology.

The permanent display section has an array of historic game devices.





They do have a hands-on section that allow you to play. I can't remember if they have a Playstation or X-box; but the image is projected on a large screen. And there are workstations that allow the kids to play various games.



Your son might also like the Melbourne Museum. There is a dinosaur section and a section for Bugs Alive.

I would recommend ScienceWorks as well; but it depends on how mobile you are. I'm not sure it's so easy to get to with public transport; but I might be wrong about that.

 

[zanzibar138]

What about the Great Ocean Road? I've seen several people recommend spending 2 days doing it. Yet most private guides offer a 1 day option. What do you think is better? If possible I'd rather do the 1 day GOR drive and spend more time in Melbourne. We're considering flying into Melbourne and spending 3-5 days then flying up to Cairns for 1-2 days before the ABD starts. There's so many great things to see. I'd love to visit Yarra Valley, but don't think there will be enough time on this trip.

I would definitely recommend driving yourself and taking 2 days. The tour companies seem to believe that the 'Great Ocean Road' is the 12 Apostles This is the most over-touristed, underwhelming part of the GOC if you ask me.

When we did the GOC, we drove to the end (Warrnambool, about 4-5 hours I think, but we are on the other side of the city and had to contend with peak hour traffic) after work on Friday. Saturday we drove as far as Apollo Bay, and Sunday we drove the rest of the way home.

I recommend pulling off into the little side roads if you see a sign you think is interesting. We found some real gems this way! The Bay of Islands just out of Warrnambool was quite spectacular, and Loch Ard Gorge was wonderful. We spent quite a bit of time there exploring everything on offer. It was peaceful and easy to see (unlike the 12 Apostles which is like trying to get a spot at the rope for the parade at WDW). There are also some great waterfalls on the inland part of the drive, and the Otway Fly which is a canopy walk.

Another question about Melbourne. Ever done the Center for the Moving Image? I'm trying to include things my 10yo DS might think is pretty cool.

I have only ever done 'ACMI' if they have a special exhibition on that I'm interested in (I've been for the Tim Burton Exhibition, Disney Princess Exhibition, and most recently, the Dreamworks Exhibition). It can be an interesting way to fill in a couple of hours, but definitely try to find a discount coupon as it's expensive for what it is. If you're not bothering with a special exhibition, I believe it's free, so probably worth checking out. If your DS is bored you can always leave and haven't lost anything.

 

[Aussie Wendy]

I second a lot of Zanibar's and PIO's helpful points. You can get to Scienceworks in Melbourne by ferry from South Bank up river which is a lovely trip.

We have done the train from Perth to Adelaide not from Adelaide to Darwin but both are very long trips with desert and more desert out the window - can get a bit monotonous but I guess not if you are a train fan. We also found the trip rather rough and jerky and noisy - made sleeping hard. I have had different groups of friends who have done it, some with the same experience as us, others different, so maybe it depends when they do track work? (as the heat tends to warp them so there is ongoing maintenance work). I still argue these Australian trains are nothing like the first class quality you get in Europe or Canada even though they badge them as first class but others disagree so its obviously a personal thing. I guess unless you are mad-keen on train trips I wouldn't put the train with the associated time involved on my first visit unless I had plenty of time to accommodate it without rushing. We have driven much of the train route north to Darwin. Much of the Australian desert isn't terribly different to the desert in New Mexico/Arizona. I love the desert btw, hence our upcoming trip to see more of it in the US, but again-thinking of first trips and "different" experiences for you, just wanted to make sure you had a variety of points of view.

 

[WeLoveABD]

I second a lot of Zanibar's and PIO's helpful points. You can get to Scienceworks in Melbourne by ferry from South Bank up river which is a lovely trip.

We have done the train from Perth to Adelaide not from Adelaide to Darwin but both are very long trips with desert and more desert out the window - can get a bit monotonous but I guess not if you are a train fan. We also found the trip rather rough and jerky and noisy - made sleeping hard. I have had different groups of friends who have done it, some with the same experience as us, others different, so maybe it depends when they do track work? (as the heat tends to warp them so there is ongoing maintenance work). I still argue these Australian trains are nothing like the first class quality you get in Europe or Canada even though they badge them as first class but others disagree so its obviously a personal thing. I guess unless you are mad-keen on train trips I wouldn't put the train with the associated time involved on my first visit unless I had plenty of time to accommodate it without rushing. We have driven much of the train route north to Darwin. Much of the Australian desert isn't terribly different to the desert in New Mexico/Arizona. I love the desert btw, hence our upcoming trip to see more of it in the US, but again-thinking of first trips and "different" experiences for you, just wanted to make sure you had a variety of points of view.

Thanks! We are still exploring our options but looks like the wiser course is to spend a few days in Melbourne then a few in Sydney to do things ABD doesn't do (Blue Mtn for one) and then head north for our ABD adventure. We will visit Perth and do a rail trip another time!