Plain noodles, only $16.79!

[DiszyDeanette]

OK we had the "free" dining, but in reviewing our bill at Spoodles I noticed that my 11-year-old daughter's plate of plain ziti was listed at $16.79.

Restaurants don't usually discount a plate just because you don't want the sauce, cheese, etc. It seems outrageous, but they aren't really in business to serve plates of plain pasta. (if they were, they wouldn't be in business long!) You don't just buy the food, you buy the space you're sitting in, the people waiting on you, cooking for you, cleaning up after you, the lights over you, the water the pasta was cooked in and the gas that fueled the fire that cooked it, well... I could go on and on. I agree, it seems outrageous, but that's how it works.

 

[splashmtnman]

Restaurants don't usually discount a plate just because you don't want the sauce, cheese, etc. It seems outrageous, but they aren't really in business to serve plates of plain pasta. (if they were, they wouldn't be in business long!) You don't just buy the food, you buy the space you're sitting in, the people waiting on you, cooking for you, cleaning up after you, the lights over you, the water the pasta was cooked in and the gas that fueled the fire that cooked it, well... I could go on and on. I agree, it seems outrageous, but that's how it works.

We are talking about a child here. Restaurant all the time serve children food at discounted prices. What do you think a kid's menu is? Restaurants don't do these to be money makers but when they have the kids eating they have the parents eating. That's who they are making money off of. Alcohol , fish for $30. I will repeat as a veteran of many years as an Executive Chef and GM I have never charged a child a full entree price for a small plate of plain pasta. why would you take the chance of upsetting someone when they are spending that kind of money. Especially when the childs menu has a angel hair for $5.99. If this happened to me I may just pay the bill but I would not leave feeling all that good about it. After a wonderful meal, service and all around experience why chance that, or give them something to feel uneasy about. As you can see from the OP she really didn't sound too upset but she left the restaurant and what does she talk about. See that's the one's that WDW is worried about. Not the complainers but the one's that leave and say nothing to them and then you here later about it.

 

[bwatakl]

I have dined at many restaurants w/my kids and have to say I have never been charged an entree price for them when they wanted plain noodles. Even if it was the same ones from an entree it has not happened. We ate last year at Mama Melrose and my daughter got plain fett. from there and was not charged for an adult fett. She was 12 last year. But I could see this happen but I would bet that the manager would not have knowledge of it. We are foodies and eat at alot of very nice places but sometimes the kids just want plain pasta. They will eat sushi, Vietnamese and even tofu but I can't get them to eat Lasagne. Go figure! I think I have to go with the chef's on this one. They seem to know the inner workings of a restaurant more so than the rest of us.

 

[wdw4evergirl]

My inlaws have owned a restaurant in the Bay Area of California that is a very high end restaurant. I posed this question to them and was told they would not charge a child for a plate of pasta that much. Even if the wanted a small portion of that actual entree they would adjust the cost. Making $5-$10 extra dollars off of a child would not be good business scense. They are spending lots of money in their restaurant and the last thing they would want to do is draw any negative attention to the dining experience by overcharging for a small plate of boiled noodles. They say the restaurant was out of line on this issue. He also said that WDW restaurants serve more children than they would and should have a set amount to charge and not leave this up to the waitstaff cause they don't always see the big picture.

 

[DiszyDeanette]

We are talking about a child here. Restaurant all the time serve children food at discounted prices. What do you think a kid's menu is?

If the "child" was an adult on the DDP, they would be charged adult prices. If the parents wanted to pay OOP, they could have then ordered a children's portion.

 

[wdw4evergirl]

I don't think the question here is about the DDP. It has been expressed by a few people that $16.79 is what they should charge even OOP for a small plate of fettucine because the fett.alfredo is $16.79. I say and it seems most people here agree that a more appropriate charge would be to charge them for a child's pasta if she was paying out of pocket. Nobody cares what they have on the bill when you use the DDP because it is already paid.

 

[apostolic4life]

I don't think the question here is about the DDP. It has been expressed by a few people that $16.79 is what they should charge even OOP for a small plate of fettucine because the fett.alfredo is $16.79. I say and it seems most people here agree that a more appropriate charge would be to charge them for a child's pasta if she was paying out of pocket. Nobody cares what they have on the bill when you use the DDP because it is already paid.

You echoed my sentiment from an earlier post on this thread. It would not be a good practice to rip someone off for a large profit on a single dinner when you could make a marginal profit but have that patron return and spread good PR about your establishment to everyone they know. Word of mouth can kill a business or breathe life into one!

 

[kaytieeldr]

splashmtnman, I would love to sit and have a drink with you and bicker some day, but for me I will have a Coke with a wedge of lime.

I'm confused. Do you mean you'd like to sit and bicker with splashmntnman while having a drink, or do you mean you'd like to have a drink with two of the more prolific posters in this thread?

She said she could get an answer for me on this though if I didn't mind waiting. She talked with a manager and he said this is a common occurence at WDW and that they do not hold to the 10 yr. and older adult rule. They do look at the childs size and if they are not a big kid like many boys are they have no problem letting children that are 11 order from a child's menu.

Then, unless post number 46's cousin is big for a twelve year old, her party has an issue with Spoodles (one that it's too late to resolve, probably). Since the OP in this thread used DDP credits instead of money for their meal, the restaurant's policy has no effect on them - adult credit, adult entree, period - except to surprise and probably irritate her, I forget.

Of course fettucine is an available item. That is one thing you don't seem to understand. In a restaurant such as Spoodles they will almost always accomodate any request w/in reason. So anything that is in that kitchen is available.

Fine. I know fettucine is an available item. It's right on the menu (fettucine Alfredo). But the OP's daughter's table service credit was 'billed' at the menu price - which makes absolute sense - and Laura's cousin (okay, whoever was paying for that meal) was CHARGED $16.79 with advance notice and their agreement.

We are talking about a child here. Restaurant all the time serve children food at discounted prices

We're talking adult for the purposes of the Disney Dining Plan. Adult Guest, adult table service credit. Maybe Spoodles is one of the restaurants that won't allow an adult to order from the kids' menu.

I don't think the question here is about the DDP. It has been expressed by a few people that $16.79 is what they should charge even OOP for a small plate of fettucine because the fett.alfredo is $16.79

Y'know, two posters in this entire thread have had apparent first-hand experience with Spoodles, specifically the pasta entree/s. NEITHER of them indicated "small" anything, yet there appears to be a relatively widespread, entirely unsupported assumption that the Guests in question got "small plates" of plain pasta. Until/unless one of the two posters who experienced a $16.79 charge for plain pasta states otherwise, or somebody can show me where either of both of them indicated a reduced serving size, it is apparent that each girl got a pasta entree from the adult menu (read: standard size) but with no sauce. Charging the regular price for the regular serving makes PERFECT sense to me.

 

[splashmtnman]

I would have to disagree w/you on this. I did speak w/ management and they said WDW does not hold to the 10 and over adult on these issues. You are right though the child in question could have been big for her age. As for the size of the pasta I can think of no time my daughter was ever served an adult portion of plain pasta when dining at this type of restaurant. I could see maybe an olive garden or some place that is not of Spoodles caliber doing that. Even if she was an adult and served a full portion of plain pasta most of the time youy would not charge for an entree that uses the same pasta. It just isn't done when there is good management in charge. You seem to not fully grasp how a restaurant operates w/ regards to special requests.

 

[wdw4evergirl]

I would have to disagree w/you on this. I did speak w/ management and they said WDW does not hold to the 10 and over adult on these issues. You are right though the child in question could have been big for her age. As for the size of the pasta I can think of no time my daughter was ever served an adult portion of plain pasta when dining at this type of restaurant. I could see maybe an olive garden or some place that is not of Spoodles caliber doing that. Even if she was an adult and served a full portion of plain pasta most of the time youy would not charge for an entree that uses the same pasta. It just isn't done when there is good management in charge. You seem to not fully grasp how a restaurant operates w/ regards to special requests.

This has been very interesting reading. Having an interest in this topic due to relatives in the business and dining out almost nightly w/children I read every post. We also eat at alot of nice places. There are people that have posted that seem to have many years experience and I can say that is very clear. They know how you should be treated when dining at restaurants such as this. I'm sure I would love to dine in any establishment that they work in. They speak from experience and it definitely shows. Now there are other posters who don't speak from experience and it's a good thing because they sure would not have been in business long with that kind of attitude. Apostolic4life, Splashmtnman you are true professionals. As for...

 

[kaytieeldr]

This has been very interesting reading. Having an interest in this topic due to relatives in the business and dining out almost nightly w/children I read every post. We also eat at alot of nice places. There are people that have posted that seem to have many years experience and I can say that is very clear. They know how you should be treated when dining at restaurants such as this. I'm sure I would love to dine in any establishment that they work in. They speak from experience and it definitely shows. Now there are other posters who don't speak from experience and it's a good thing because they sure would not have been in business long with that kind of attitude. Apostolic4life, Splashmtnman you are true professionals. As for...

Ouch. I hope that was a weak attempt at humor, and not a personal attack on one or more of the posters who've been trying to explain why Spoodles rang (punched, keyed, whatever) the item the way they did.

 

[splashmtnman]

wow that is getting a little tough there. Good to see this one has calmed down a bit. Regardless I will be eating there in December and my daughter will probably be ordering the plain pasta. I would be willing to bet I'm not paying $16 for it.

 

[DiszyDeanette]

wow that is getting a little tough there. Good to see this one has calmed down a bit. Regardless I will be eating there in December and my daughter will probably be ordering the plain pasta. I would be willing to bet I'm not paying $16 for it.

If it's not being charged to the DDP as an adult meal, you probably wouldn't.

 

[splashmtnman]

If it's not being charged to the DDP as an adult meal, you probably wouldn't.

I agree totally.

 

[newbie94]

I thank those who may respectfully disagree, but I also have to ask a couple of simple questions.

1.) Should one have experience, education or training in food and beverage management before attemping to position themselves as an expert voice in this area? or correct those who may be expert in this area?

2.) If one has no training or experience in food and beverage management, why is it hard to defer to those who do? I would never assume to tell my auto mechanic I knew better than him.....because I don't.

Not picking on anyone, just honestly trying to figure out how positions are rationalized.

Here's my thoughts:

1. No. Just because a person has experience, education or training, it does not make them an expert that a)knows everything there is to know about their field and/or b) never lets their own bias cause them to give a wrong answer to a question.

2. Defer, huh? Well, let me tell you a story. Three years ago, I went to a Neurologist for a long list of neurological problems of unknown origin. He told me that because my MRI was clear, I couldn't have MS (a LIE or stupid mistake). He also told me I was suffering from postpartum depression and gave me anti-depressants and sent me home. This was the man with all the degrees and I was the one with no training, education, or experience. But, he was misinformed or just plain idiotic and I KNEW he was wrong. I went somewhere else and a neuro. who took me seriously investigated more and eventually found the source of my problems - a brain tumor that was threatening to kill me! I sit here alive now because I challenged the "educated." (And, by the Grace of God).

I'm not questioning your input here, I have no opinion. Just wanted to share a different perspective

Christine - the newbie going to Disney for the first time in 9 days

 

[newbie94]

Every establishment I have worked for has given absolute control of ordering, menu costing and pricing to the Executive Chef.

This was not true at an establishment I worked at as Admin. Assitant to the EC. Politics of a member-owned private resort club - the "board" meddled in all this stuff. But I guess busy-body retirees with nothing else to do don't really count, huh!

 

[newbie94]

You are so incorrect on this.reataurant POS systems have many extra items set up on them so that there is a consistency on the price charged. We have always had keys for things such as this. .... My views are based on experience with this very issue.

I think one of the problems with this discussion is that the expert opinions in the matter are being given from people who have experience with many restaurants but nobody who has experience with something like WDW. splashmtnman is not arguing logically with the "you are wrong because this is the way we've always done it where I've worked." First, just because it's always been done a certain way where you've been doesn't mean it is that way everywhere. Another logical falacy. WDW is it's own animal. There's nothing else like it. Some posters have made the point about sacrificing short-term profits for the long-term good of the company. Some of us think that should mean accomidating the "adult" child so as to not make people upset. Maybe they would have done that had the group been paying OOP. With DDP, nobody cares, nobody complains. Most have agreed with this. The question is - was that padding or was it just charging what they charge? Like ordering the plain burger. So what if the pasta is the cheapest part of the meal? What is the meal without the pasta? Fettuchini Alfredo without the Fettuchini - I dare say would not even be worth eating.

And, sorry to challenge all your experience, Apostolic, but I really have to ask you to clarify something: can you honestly say that the expensive restaurant with crystal goblets and world-renowned chefs can turn a profit off a $4 plate of pasta the same as a corner diner? I don't see how. Maybe if you figure in that most people going there would be ordering much more expensive food. But what if you had a whole table of people who came in to the high-dollar place to order $4 pasta because they liked dining in the atmosphere and wanted to say they ate where Chef so-and-so cooks but didn't want to pay the $$$. What if this idea got popular and lots of people started taking up your table space to eat $4 pasta? As in retail, you aren't going to find a $1 section at the downtown boutique that pays $5000 a month in rent. Wal-Mart, yes. The boutique needs to make every inch of its floor space pay. At what point do you say, "there's no way I can keep charging only $4 for pasta because I'm losing money on it?" Just an honest question...

 

[apostolic4life]

And, sorry to challenge all your experience, Apostolic, but I really have to ask you to clarify something: can you honestly say that the expensive restaurant with crystal goblets and world-renowned chefs can turn a profit off a $4 plate of pasta the same as a corner diner? I don't see how. Maybe if you figure in that most people going there would be ordering much more expensive food. But what if you had a whole table of people who came in to the high-dollar place to order $4 pasta because they liked dining in the atmosphere and wanted to say they ate where Chef so-and-so cooks but didn't want to pay the $$$. What if this idea got popular and lots of people started taking up your table space to eat $4 pasta? As in retail, you aren't going to find a $1 section at the downtown boutique that pays $5000 a month in rent. Wal-Mart, yes. The boutique needs to make every inch of its floor space pay. At what point do you say, "there's no way I can keep charging only $4 for pasta because I'm losing money on it?" Just an honest question...

I was really hoping this thread had died, but looks like that is just not gonna happen! Once again, I have never said a restaurant should charge $4 for a plate of pasta. The fact a restaurant could charge $4 and still make a marginal profit is being lost here. Every other chef who has posted here has been in agreement with me on this fact, but everyone wants to believe because they pay $16 for the pasta it coudn't possibly be profitable at the lower price. Would I charge $4 for the plate of pasta on a regular basis: No! If every adult customer came into an elite upscale restaurant and only ordered the plain pasta it would, in the long run, put the establishment out of business. Is this due solely to a low charge for the plain pasta, No. When a restaurant designs a menu, some items are priced considerably higher than the cost involved with the dish (referance previously posted cost breakdowns for cost %) and some are priced with a much smaller increase due to customer perception and area market trends. Mark-up percentage on a steak is going to be smaller than the mark-up percentage on the plate of pasta so that all menu items balance out to meet cost percentages across the entire menu. So, in short, to offer the plain pasta to a child or occasional adult at a reduced rate is not going to hurt profitability at all. If most of your customers tried to order the plain pasta at a reduced rate you will lose money due to having loss of sales from higher cost items on the menu. The scenario you have purposed is logically flawed due to the fact it relies on a premise that requires a large percentage people to go to a high end restaurant and only order plain pasta.....that would never happen!

2. Defer, huh? Well, let me tell you a story. Three years ago, I went to a Neurologist for a long list of neurological problems of unknown origin. He told me that because my MRI was clear, I couldn't have MS (a LIE or stupid mistake). He also told me I was suffering from postpartum depression and gave me anti-depressants and sent me home. This was the man with all the degrees and I was the one with no training, education, or experience. But, he was misinformed or just plain idiotic and I KNEW he was wrong. I went somewhere else and a neuro. who took me seriously investigated more and eventually found the source of my problems - a brain tumor that was threatening to kill me! I sit here alive now because I challenged the "educated." (And, by the Grace of God).

First, Glory to God for your recovery and the identification of the problem. Second, I previously posted the importance of second opinions on most matters. My questions are not designed to puff myself up, but to defend my colleagues in the culinary field who have posted here only to have their credibility questioned after being in agreement with me. If you had gone to 4 or 5 doctors and they all told you the same thing, would you have then felt you had been given reasonable information regarding your problem?? I have been backed up by my colleagues on most of what I have posted, but many still think we are incorrect.......everyone who has been in disagreement with us have not given a factually based counter to our assertions. I have had opinions about many things in my life, but when presented with overwhelming contradiction and opposing fact to those opinions, I have modified them been taught by someone who knows better via experience, education or training.

As for the country club experience, they are a whole other monster......yes, when the 80 year old board member wants to meddle, it makes the job tougher!!!

Again, Praise God for your diagnosis and recovery!!!

 

[raidermatt]

When a restaurant designs a menu, some items are priced considerably higher than the cost involved with the dish (referance previously posted cost breakdowns for cost %) and some are priced with a much smaller increase due to customer perception and area market trends.

More specific to this situation, is it true that children's meals will often have a lower markup? Not because they can't make money on them, but because it keeps the parents happy about eating their high margin entrees and drinking their high margin drinks?

I have ordered plain pasta for my son in restaurants easily equivalent to the restaurants at WDW and NEVER been charged $16 for it.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Geez......there's 15 minutes of my life I'll never, regrettably, get back.

First of all, people, realize this situation for what it is. The guest wasn't paying anyting out of pocket, the server realized that, and he/she took the opportunity to have a $16.79 entree added to the bill for the plate of pasta in question, thereby increasing his or her tip. Had this guest not been on the DDP, they would have asked for a small plate of plain pasta, the kitchen would have accomodated, and they would have been charged something much less. As our resident chefs have done a good job of illustrating, this is what any restaurant, even at WDW, would do.....does do. Heck, it's what Le Cellier did on our last trip. In this case the CM was just opportunistic, to nobody's harm save Spoodle's bottom line.

There are certain people here you would think should rail about that hit to the bottom line and shareholder value, and leave the food talk to the trained restaurant professionals doing this sort of thing as their job. They are usually right, no?

I do not believe this is a case of Spoodle's policy being 'you want the Fettuccini Alfredo without the Alfredo you still pay for Fettuccini Alfredo'. As pointed out, the sauce costs a lot more than the pasta.

Interesting note on food cost. In my frequent business travels I have spent quite a bit of time in certain Outbacks, and had a few interesting discussions with some of those professional restaurant people doing their jobs. The owner at one location indicated that food cost is typically 40% at Outback, where most places average 30% at best. The quality shows, IMHO.