Picking a Public high school for my son...a few questions on researching them..

[Minnesota!]

What's most important to your child? What kind of environment would he thrive in? What classes and activities are offered that he would join? Trying to figure out which school is "the best" school is maddening. You only have to find the best school fit for your individual child. What's great for some, isn't a good fit for others. One of my children went to a few small charter schools which suited her needs very well. At one point we tried a large public high school for her and she was overwhelmed, like trying to fit a square peg in a round whole. We wanted it to work, but it was a disaster until she got back into a smaller environment more tailored to her learning needs.

Our younger daughter is the complete opposite. She loves the big city public school. She's had a ton of class options to choose, and she is getting great grades, plus she enjoys playing on the volleyball team. The large size doesn't bother her at all. She has a diverse friend group, and she loves going many of the sports games and activities. A lot of people don't consider her city school a "good" school, when you look at test scores and data and compare them to suburbs or privates. But in a school that large, there is a definite segment of AP and IB classes and sizable group of college-bound peers. We just came back from her conferences, and we were impressed with all of her teachers as well.

Very wise advice...thank you! My kids are opposite as you can get, so it has been a challenge to maintain them in some sort of "sameness" for the ease of it. However, this is where it will all change.

I am definitely going to look at what offers what he needs, at a school where he will be starting clean, and pick the best from that. It is so simple - I am not sure why I didn't come to that conclusion, ha!! Hard to see when you are in the thick of it - I have spent quite a few years regretting schooling choices I have made for him up to this point, so the fear of choosing wrong again is strong, I admit. I need him to be somewhere that nobody knows the torment he has gone through, where he can be amongst A LOT of kids, in the hopes of finding someone he can call a friend, and has the opportunities - social, academic, physical - that he deserves.

 

[cassiopia419]

PS - do you have any information on northeast metro/east metro/south east metro school districts? Taking any advice I can - so new to this game! When I was growing up, I didn't have a choice - private k-12. Public schools were "bad"...

I'm in the northeast metro (North St. Paul) and we just went through this with my son. He also went to a small private Catholic school for K-8. I wasn't crazy about our local school district, but we just couldn't swing private (I went to H-M back in the day, but it was about 20% of the current cost). We checked out some charter schools (Stillwater, Woodbury, etc), but just couldn't find a good fit, and moving wasn't an option for us, so we resigned ourselves to making the local district work somehow. We had concerns because he wasn't the kid that would be self-selecting into AP classes (he's more than capable, but doesn't have the motivation to do the extra work). At the last minute in the spring, we got notified that we had made the lottery draw in our top nearby district choice (Mahtomedi) that I had filled out the open enrollment form for back at the start of the school year. We never thought we'd get in because they were talking about closing enrollment entirely.

That should have been a super easy decision at that point, but then it became one of whether to send him to a top school where he knew no one at all, or to the local district where 1/2 of the kids from his 8th grade class were going. He wanted to go local, but in the end, we couldn't turn down the better option (smaller school, much higher graduation rate, less chaos/trouble among the students, etc).

We're three months into 9th grade at the new school. He's getting good grades and enjoying classes, but still hasn't made a single friend. However, he's not an athlete or into lots of school activities, so I'm sure it will be different in your son's case. It's definitely one of the toughest decisions we've had to make and I still wonder, at least weekly, if we did the right thing.

I did a TON of research over the past couple of years and talked to everyone I could find. Happy to share any info I might have if there are options you are considering that I looked into as well.

Katie

 

[Minnesota!]

I'm in the northeast metro (North St. Paul) and we just went through this with my son. He also went to a small private Catholic school for K-8. I wasn't crazy about our local school district, but we just couldn't swing private (I went to H-M back in the day, but it was about 20% of the current cost). We checked out some charter schools (Stillwater, Woodbury, etc), but just couldn't find a good fit, and moving wasn't an option for us, so we resigned ourselves to making the local district work somehow. We had concerns because he wasn't the kid that would be self-selecting into AP classes (he's more than capable, but doesn't have the motivation to do the extra work). At the last minute in the spring, we got notified that we had made the lottery draw in our top nearby district choice (Mahtomedi) that I had filled out the open enrollment form for back at the start of the school year. We never thought we'd get in because they were talking about closing enrollment entirely.

That should have been a super easy decision at that point, but then it became one of whether to send him to a top school where he knew no one at all, or to the local district where 1/2 of the kids from his 8th grade class were going. He wanted to go local, but in the end, we couldn't turn down the better option (smaller school, much higher graduation rate, less chaos/trouble among the students, etc).

We're three months into 9th grade at the new school. He's getting good grades and enjoying classes, but still hasn't made a single friend. However, he's not an athlete or into lots of school activities, so I'm sure it will be different in your son's case. It's definitely one of the toughest decisions we've had to make and I still wonder, at least weekly, if we did the right thing.

I did a TON of research over the past couple of years and talked to everyone I could find. Happy to share any info I might have if there are options you are considering that I looked into as well.

Katie

Wow! Do you mind if I private message you?

 

[cassiopia419]

Wow! Do you mind if I private message you?

Sure. I was going to do it myself, but it wasn't showing up for some reason Definitely happy to share what I know.

 

[Shanti]

Hi, all!

My kids have gone to a small, Catholic, private school from K - 8. Except for one semester last year where my oldest went to the local public middle school due to some issues with a teacher at the private.

Anyway, we are going to be moving out of this district as the private schools are 15K+ for him now and I would rather use that for his college fun, and the public schools...blow.

I am researching districts and I am confused on what I should "believe"...

Two different websites - schooldigger and greatschools, have VASTLY different rankings for quite a few of the districts we are considering. For instance, the TOP district we had considered, as it is the town we used to live in, and loved living there - one website has it ranked 2/10 (very, very poor), and the other has it 9/10 (amazing ratings).

One site has the charter school he already applied to as a 10/10 and ranked in the top 5 in the state, and the other has it at a 6/10..

This is all very new to me. I know a little about a lot of the schools, and, like with anywhere, I get wildly different opinions on everything.

Which website would YOU say is more reputable? Is there somewhere else I can look?

Thank you! Go easy - this is all so overwhelming!

Visit the school. Talk to the administrators. Look at test scores. Read online reviews with a grain of salt. That's the best you can do. In schools, it's very much about the quality of the individual teachers, which can vary even within the school.

 

[mnrose]

I will disagree with the education, around here at least. Comparing what the private schools we have looked at offer and what the "good" public schools offer - the only difference is the religion in the private. We really have some damn fine schools in MN (I know, shades of a former poster on the DIS coming out there...), and even our "eh" public schools beat out "excellent" schools in other spots, so our BEST ones can blow even the private ones out of the water... which is why I said I would prefer to NOT pay for the same education, if at all possible

That is so true. Minnesota is known to have a very good, if not excellent, public education system. There is simply NO comparison, for example, to the public schools in California (the only other place of which I have first hand knowledge). It's the biggest reason we moved from California back to Minnesota when my kids were in kindergarten. I KNEW they could get a first rate education in a public school, and I was right. J

 

[MillauFr]

That is so true. Minnesota is known to have a very good, if not excellent, public education system. There is simply NO comparison, for example, to the public schools in California (the only other place of which I have first hand knowledge). It's the biggest reason we moved from California back to Minnesota when my kids were in kindergarten. I KNEW they could get a first rate education in a public school, and I was right. J

Agree. Minnesota has one of the best public education systems in the entire country. The OP is lucky to live there as there are literally tons of top notch public high schools.

 

[Minnesota!]

Just wanted to say thanks, again, for all the advice. Hard to be objective, or see the whole thing, when you are in the thick of it. I think we have a good plan going forward, and thanks to @cassiopia419 I have some real "insider" information.

I agree, I am very lucky to have the excellent school choices that I do have. We have gone back and forth on moving to Florida...it is, right now, the schools that hold me back. I do count my blessings, trust me

 

[DopeyDame]

I don't know anything about Minnesota schools, but some things to think about:
1. Ignore great schools, school digger, etc. They compile online info and test scores. You can get all the info in other places, more accurately, and more relevant to your own family.
2. each district has to publish their test scores, broken down in several categories. Take a look at those, and dig into the details. Generally (sadly) test scores correlate with SES status. So a school with a low "great schools" rating may have a lot of lower SES status students. That doesn't mean it isn't a great school. How do the students in each sub group compare to those sub group students at other schools? How does the sub group in which your son belongs perform? What are the trends year over year at the school?
3. Finally, visit! You will absolutely get a "feel" for the school when you visit. What's the atmosphere? What's on the walls? Peek into the classrooms. What are the kids doing? How are they behaving?

 

[NotUrsula]

Attend sports events for the school in question. The stands will be full of parents whose kids attend, and someone should be willing to talk with you at halftime, etc.

 

[DawnM]

It depends on what you want, what your kids want, etc....

I would also look at national ranking, google the school and ranking and US News and World Report. Our local school has been fantastic, ranked in the 250 range in the country by US News and World Report.

That isn't the end all be all ranking system, but it does give a decent picture of how good a school is.

 

[Lilacs4Me]

US News and World Report's Best High Schools in America. The IL ranking's, at least, seem pretty spot on, as do Michigan's. I am not familiar with schools in other states, but of the schools I know in IL and MI, the "known" best ones are indeed the ones that ranked the highest.

IL has what they call "School Report Cards" that gives a huge amount of information about the school and/or district. When moving from MI to IL, I would find houses in our price range in an area that was close to where we thought we might be happy to live, then I would go to the district website and pull their school report card. I looked at class size, teacher tenure, ave test scores compared to the district (one well-off district had a elementary school that under-performed drastically compared to the other schools in the district...and it was located in an apartment-heavy area of the district that housed an inordinate number people of questionable character, if the crime rates and sex offender registry are to be believed)

The one statistic that I always looked at was the ratio of free/reduced lunch recipients vs non, as well as ESL students. Not only does that tell you something about the demographics of the school, but it is also an indicator of how the school uses its resources. Schools that need to supply children with the basics tend to have little left over for the extras. Parents of children who are low-income tend to be less involved in the day to day functionality of the school, making it harder for the schools to offer parent volunteer-heavy enrichment programs. I always looked at the elementary schools as well as the middle schools because they eventually feed into the HS and I wanted to see what kind of kids were going to be my kids' peers. I also admit to checking out the stats of the school's football team - my son played and I wanted him to to at least have a chance to win a game or two during high school! lol But in all seriousness, it could have been anything....if he were into art, or theater, or band, or whatever, I would have looked up those activities to make sure 1. they were offered, and 2. that they were deemed as important as the academics. HS is about so much more than just getting an A in a class!

FWIW, I didn't know about the US NWR rankings at the time, and the schools that we considered, using this method, are all ranked in the top 50 best high schools in IL - DS's HS is consistently in the top 25 - so although there are ALWAYS exceptions, I feel that the data I found from my research methods were pretty close to reality.

 

[rlk]

I think rankings are a good indicator, but should not be the single determining factor. A school can be highly ranked and look great on paper, but not the right fit for the student. I have two children in high school, they are completely different learners. We chose a school for one child that would serve his learning needs as well as foster his confidence. The younger child told us which school he wanted and was able to test into his first choice school. This school is ranked in the top 20 high schools in USA Today's national rankings. It's a good fit for my younger child. The school my older child attends, isn't highly ranked, but he is thriving because it is a good fit for him.

 

[NotUrsula]

[snip]
The one statistic that I always looked at was the ratio of free/reduced lunch recipients vs non, as well as ESL students. Not only does that tell you something about the demographics of the school, but it is also an indicator of how the school uses its resources. Schools that need to supply children with the basics tend to have little left over for the extras. Parents of children who are low-income tend to be less involved in the day to day functionality of the school, making it harder for the schools to offer parent volunteer-heavy enrichment programs. I always looked at the elementary schools as well as the middle schools because they eventually feed into the HS and I wanted to see what kind of kids were going to be my kids' peers.
[snip]

Aside from being taken aback at the "I don't want my kids associating with poor people" tone of this post, I have to tell you that free lunch ratio is a number that can be very misleading in certain districts, because of a federal program called Community Eligibility Provision. My DD's magnet school is the top-ranked public elementary in the state, but every kid in the school gets free lunch; it's listed at 100%. The reason why is that the district as a whole (nearly 24,000 students) has more than 40% of students who qualify, so it is actually cheaper to simply run the entire district on a free-lunch basis than to do the paperwork and accounting for that many students. We have a lot of ESL students in the lower grades at her school, too -- most of them are the children of graduate students from Asia. They don't have much money, but they have time, and they tend to volunteer at a very high rate. It's a great school because it has a stellar staff, but also because every kid who is there wanted to be there; their parents chose to jump through hoops to get their kids in. You can bet they are committed parents.

In large urban districts where the prosperity of neighborhoods can change from one block to the next, you will always get a wide economic mix in a public school, which is a VERY good thing, IMO. A good school will be able to not only handle the economic disparity, but turn that diversity to advantage.

 

[DisneyOma]

We did opposite. Kids went public 0-8 and then catholic hs. We have real good school districts by me but we were more scared of developing bad habits at public HS. Though one child made Laguadia and I was hoping she'd go but she did not feel great about taking subways.
They have more and more magnet schools in our area and they seem to be trying to grab more ambitious kids, thing is many don't seem to be performing very well.

Why would you be scared of your child 'developing bad habits at public HS' any more than them doing it a private school? Are you 1) a snob or 2) have no control or involvement with your child? Because this is very offensive if it is the first, and very concerning if it is the second.

And what does 'making Laguadia' mean?

OP - good luck with your decision. What I think really makes all the difference is your involvement with your child's education. No matter the school, make sure your child has other activities, experiences, etc. Look for great school stuff, but also go beyond. Our school district is mediocre. It's a small school district, blue collar area, not ranked very high on anyone's lists. But our students still get into great colleges, or go on to do amazing things. Our staff is super, our alumni are very loyal, and I think that makes a huge difference. Our students get into Ivy schools, public Ivy schools, MIT, etc. They become doctors, scientists, actors, engineers. They serve in the military, come back and mentor in our schools. They go to local colleges and start businesses in our community. They come back and become teachers in our school system.

 

[QueenIsabella]

+1 on NotUrsula's post. I also wanted to mention, it's worth digging a little deeper to see where the "less desirable" stats come into play. I know our HS has a special program for First Generation students--those who will be the first in their to attend college. The school starts working with these kids their freshman year, helping them with course selection, SAT/ACT prep, college applications, writing essays--things their parents might not know anything about. If this program is a magnet for first generation students, is that a bad thing for the HS? Is it a bad thing if my child happens to earn volunteer credit by tutoring these children? Might my child have more of an appreciation for the gifts she has in life, seeing how hard these kids have to work for their shot at the brass ring?

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

Why would you be scared of your child 'developing bad habits at public HS' any more than them doing it a private school? Are you 1) a snob or 2) have no control or involvement with your child? Because this is very offensive if it is the first, and very concerning if it is the second.

And what does 'making Laguadia' mean?
.

Having attended both I will gladly go into the details of my experience in both. I am not snob nor would I ever make accusations of another person without attempting to understand the person. I definitely would not insult the way they raising their child either.
Laguadia is a gifted public school my daughter made, I believe it the school Fame was based on, was hoping she would go, but the school was a very long commute and she opted against it.

 

[Minnesota!]

I really appreciate you all taking the time to give me well-thought out opinions and real-life stuff. So new...I swear he was just born and I should have a LOT more time to think of this.

 

[Lilacs4Me]

Aside from being taken aback at the "I don't want my kids associating with poor people" tone of this post, I have to tell you that free lunch ratio is a number that can be very misleading in certain districts, because of a federal program called Community Eligibility Provision. My DD's magnet school is the top-ranked public elementary in the state, but every kid in the school gets free lunch; it's listed at 100%. The reason why is that the district as a whole (nearly 24,000 students) has more than 40% of students who qualify, so it is actually cheaper to simply run the entire district on a free-lunch basis than to do the paperwork and accounting for that many students. We have a lot of ESL students in the lower grades at her school, too -- most of them are the children of graduate students from Asia. They don't have much money, but they have time, and they tend to volunteer at a very high rate. It's a great school because it has a stellar staff, but also because every kid who is there wanted to be there; their parents chose to jump through hoops to get their kids in. You can bet they are committed parents.

In large urban districts where the prosperity of neighborhoods can change from one block to the next, you will always get a wide economic mix in a public school, which is a VERY good thing, IMO. A good school will be able to not only handle the economic disparity, but turn that diversity to advantage.

I don't apologize IN THE LEAST for the perceived tone of my message to the OP.

And yes, I totally agree about the misleading info in some districts. I myself have a child who resides in my home that is on free lunch - it comes with him being on State Medicaid, which has because he is eligible as a child of whom we have guardianship of. So, I get it, and also thought it went without saying that of course I did, and would expect anyone would, do thorough research in the areas and districts they were considering when narrowing down. But I forgot I'm on the DIS lol

However....HOWEVER...and I already stated there are always exceptions, which I notice you did not quote as it doesn't fit into your perception of who you think I am, a good majority of the time, a high % of free lunch recipients in a district USUALLY indicate a lower-income school, and lower-income schools must use their resources on basics. Since I can cover my kids' basics and don't need the school to do it for me, I would like them to attend a school that offers more than that.

And there is NOTHING wrong with it. And I think we can all agree that Magnet schools are not in the same category as oh, say a regular Chicago Public School. (or fill in the low-income metropolitan school district of your choice....it's pretty much the same story.)

Merry Christmas!

 

[NotUrsula]

Well, no, actually, I didn't snip that part because "it doesn't fit your perception of who you think I am". I snipped it because I was specifically addressing the idea that 1) a high eligibility listing for the Federal School Lunch program means that there are a high percentage of economically disadvantaged children attending that school, and 2) that the presence of a high percentage of economically disadvantaged students in a school is reliable evidence that that school is itself economically disadvantaged, because they are spending a high percentage of money on food instead of educational resources. FWIW, I don't happen to have ANY perception of who you are, other than someone who is mistaken about how the Federal School Lunch program actually works.

The truth is that in areas where a school (or more importantly, the district as a whole) does not qualify to participate in the Community Eligibility Provision Program, then the ENTIRE cost of the lunches for those kids who qualify are paid by the Federal Government, out of funding from the U S Dept. of Agriculture (NOT from the US Dept. of Education.) However, for schools (or districts) that do qualify to participate in the Community Eligibility Provision, the cost of the food for the program must be partially borne by state or local government if it exceeds the Federal reimbursement rate. So, my district does spend some of their money on food for the program, but only because they chose NOT to spend that same bucket of money on hiring additional administrative staff to process individual applications. Because the applications for the program are mandated for distribution, every school in the country that doesn't have a large percentage of qualified kids is actually wasting a higher percentage of money on it relative to what they gain, because of the administrative cost of processing thousands of applications that will not qualify. It's an apples vs. oranges kind of thing; a lot of local money still gets spent on the program one way or another, especially once you factor in employee benefits, which are traditionally a pretty high cost in public school systems. (An intangible benefit is that in schools where the whole district qualifies, no kid bears an unfair stigma of being "on free lunch.")

And yes, this magnet school is far and away a better school than most of the "regular" schools in the district, but again, evidence shows that the primary reason for that is that the students who are there have chosen to be there, and had to go to quite a lot of effort to get there. That process makes families very invested, but there are other ways that that can happen; for instance, I know of a school in a poorly-rated district in Florida that has better-than-average scores and phenomenal rates of parental involvement, largely because the Principal chooses to use her summer to make a personal visit to the home of each and every school family, speaking Spanish if necessary. You can't buy that kind of dedication.

The ability of a school to provide certain resources is almost always most directly indicative not of how much money they have, but of how they choose to spend it, or often, how they choose to spend the time they have for planning what to spend money on and how to get it. We are presently dealing with this issue at the middle school my DD is slated to attend next year. At the Prospective Parents meeting, the Principal of that school went on at great length about how excited he was that they had been able to raise money for a very large flagpole last year, one that can support a very large American flag that now waves over the school (the flag was donated, but they had to buy a flagpole in order to be able to display it.) While they didn't spend District money on it, it concerns me, because if this clown is that happy to have raised and then wasted money on a giant flagpole, what other pricey symbolic boondoggle is he likely to get obsessed with at the expense of the job that he is truly supposed to be doing?