photo taking poliy?

[dburg30]

You are right that it could be endless. But there is one constant. As a parent, I am the protector of my children, nobody else. I would much rather make someone taking pictures feel uncomfortable or even offended than to not do anything and it might just have happened to be that one in a million pervert.

Here again, you need to be careful because if as I state below if it's a public place, you COULD be considered harassing if you pushed it too much. And at a sporting event or anywhere you dont know WHAT is actually being photographed.

Like it has been said, it is not illegal to take the shots. Just the same it is not illegal for someone to tell the photographer that they are not welcome or at least question their intentions.

If it's a TRULY public place, it could be illegal to tell me I'm not welcome as you dont own that place. You are allowed to ask me what I'm doing, and I may or may not feel like answering you.

 

[dburg30]

It is sad for our society. Unfortunately the digital age has given new outlets for fringe perverts to cross over into committing actual crimes. Before the Internet I am sure there were many perverts around that never did anything illegal or even anything weird outside the privacy of their own homes. There are just too many temptations for them now. That is why parents of young children have to be more vigilant than our parents had to be.

I think you are on the right track, but in the wrong direction. I'm sure all the evils of the world that we hear about all the time have been around a LONG LONG LONG time, it's just now it's REPORTED much quicker and more widespread then it ever was in the past, because of the age of instant communication. Pervs 40 years ago probably didnt take pictures though.... they probably just took the kids...



edit: BTW, I DO get that you are trying to protect your kids.. We are just trying to make sure you know what could happen if you happened to push it the wrong way over someone supposedly taking a picture of your kid.

 

[Geoff_M]

The CM likely did not notice you taking the photo. I have seen them ask others to stop on many separate occasions, so I don't believe that was a "rogue" CM. The ones I have seen asked to stop are the ones up close in the line near that CM.

As I said, I was a few feet back away from the line. Others here have also reported that they haven't had problems with CMs in similar situations. I was in plain view and not hiding in the bushes.

I'm curious, why wouldn't you wait to take the character's picture between groups?

IIRC, often times it was because I didn't want to make my family wait for me as we usually were walking by the front of the line. In addition, the characters are usually much more photogenic when interacting with someone else.

 

[ukcatfan]

I am talking in hypotheticals here. I have never been in this position myself. I am also pointing out that there are many other people that are as skeptical as me (or even more).

vigilant is one thing, confronting someone with a camera just because you don't know them ??

again your children are at much greater risk from friend or family member, it's more often someone trusted by the family..??

I understand that, but if I was at an event and someone just didn't seem right to be there I would ask around first to see if anyone recognized them. If nobody did then I would have no problem asking them their reasons for being there. It all depends on the venue as well. A football game with hundreds of people there is not the same thing as a gymnastics practice with twenty parents there.

Here again, you need to be careful because if as I state below if it's a public place, you COULD be considered harassing if you pushed it too much. And at a sporting event or anywhere you dont know WHAT is actually being photographed.

Like I say above it does depend on the venue and situation. It would never be considered harassment to question someone's intentions. If it went into threats of violence that is a whole different story and not what we are talking about here.

If it's a TRULY public place, it could be illegal to tell me I'm not welcome as you dont own that place. You are allowed to ask me what I'm doing, and I may or may not feel like answering you.

By that I mean not welcome to shoot my children. Again it all depends on who, where, event type, if permission was given by organizers, etc. The thing I was commenting on originally was that the photographer Geoff_M knows is automatically confrontational when asked. In my experience, someone that is automatically confrontational is usually doing something that they know that they should not be doing. A professional would never act that way and would easily be able to explain why they are there. You are probably a potential customer anyway, so they would not want to make you mad. If it is just someone with a new DSLR practicing, then they should have no problem saying that they will not shoot your child and be done with it.

edit: BTW, I DO get that you are trying to protect your kids.. We are just trying to make sure you know what could happen if you happened to push it the wrong way over someone supposedly taking a picture of your kid.

Me personally, I am not worried about that. It would more likely be me being questioned by someone else while I am photographing. Also, while I am a really friendly person, I have a somewhat intimidating appearance being a bodybuilder. People typically do not get edgy with me. (Comes in really handy with teenage boys interested in my daughter )

 

[Geoff_M]

I can think of a two credible things in an instant. #1 That he might have perverted reasons for taking the pictures

This, of course, is the fear that pops in many people's minds... however, when you stop and think about it, I don't think there's much of a market in the pedophile world for kids giving Goofy a hug. Now, if someone is taking photos of kids at Blizzard Beach or getting off Kali River Rapids all soaked, then I think you might ask the person what they're up to.

#2 That he was going to make money off a pic of my kid without a release.

That a separate issue from the taking of the image itself. If that happened, it would also be actionable on the part of the parents... and more importantly, Disney's legal department.

If he is there with the sporting league's permission, then that would be all he needs to say and should not be starting a confrontation with his little prepared speech. If he does not have permission then he probably should not be taking pictures there (see #1 and #2).

I wholeheartedly disagree.... photography is not a crime. Many aspiring sports photographers use local amateur sports as a means to work on their skills at shooting a given sport. I've done it. I was hired one time to do event photography at a hockey tournament. But it had been about 10 years since I'd shot hockey, so before my paid gig I went to several local high school hockey games to get "bad in the groove". I paid my admission fee, and shot the games from public viewing areas.

I certainly hope I never run into that guy b/c it probably wouldn't go over too smooth with me.

You would be the exception... he reported that when he'd give his name, offer them a business card and try and address their "fears", they seemed at ease and left him alone.

 

[Geoff_M]

...the photographer Geoff_M knows is automatically confrontational when asked.

He isn't "confrontational", he engages the parent in a dialog. A lot of people just "react" and don't think about if their fears are even warranted in the first place.

 

[MICKEY88]

I am talking in hypotheticals here. I have never been in this position myself. I am also pointing out that there are many other people that are as skeptical as me (or even more).

if true I wonder why I've never encountered any while shooting



I understand that, but if I was at an event and someone just didn't seem right to be there I would ask around first to see if anyone recognized them. If nobody did then I would have no problem asking them their reasons for being there. It all depends on the venue as well. A football game with hundreds of people there is not the same thing as a gymnastics practice with twenty parents there.

a practice inside, should be more of a controlled environment I would think the people running the place should be on top of things

Like I say above it does depend on the venue and situation. It would never be considered harassment to question someone's intentions. If it went into threats of violence that is a whole different story and not what we are talking about here.

if you ask one question no, if you persist and keep them from doing what they are there for , it could be harassment.

By that I mean not welcome to shoot my children. Again it all depends on who, where, event type, if permission was given by organizers, etc. The thing I was commenting on originally was that the photographer Geoff_M knows is automatically confrontational when asked. In my experience, someone that is automatically confrontational is usually doing something that they know that they should not be doing. A professional would never act that way and would easily be able to explain why they are there. You are probably a potential customer anyway, so they would not want to make you mad. If it is just someone with a new DSLR practicing, then they should have no problem saying that they will not shoot your child and be done with it.

I didn't get that impression of the guy Geoff mentioned, if his comment always diffuses the situation, obviously he doesn't come across as confrontational to the parents involved..



Me personally, I am not worried about that. It would more likely be me being questioned by someone else while I am photographing. Also, while I am a really friendly person, I have a somewhat intimidating appearance being a bodybuilder. People typically do not get edgy with me.and that attitude is confrontational in and of itself, if I was approached by a body builder type, I would not be intimidated, especially if he apeared to have the attitude that some bodybuilders have, I'd be quite comfortable knowing the law was on my side, and knowing that if he touched me I'd own him (Comes in really handy with teenage boys interested in my daughter )

this thread is interesting, if anyone truly believes their children are in danger from a photographer, then the TSA is not off target with the poster on the other thread..

 

[ukcatfan]

This, of course, is the fear that pops in many people's minds... however, when you stop and think about it, I don't think there's much of a market in the pedophile world for kids giving Goofy a hug. Now, if someone is taking photos of kids at Blizzard Beach or getting off Kali River Rapids all soaked, then I think you might ask the person what they're up to.

That a separate issue from the taking of the image itself. If that happened, it would also be actionable on the part of the parents... and more importantly, Disney's legal department.

I wholeheartedly disagree.... photography is not a crime. Many aspiring sports photographers use local amateur sports as a means to work on their skills at shooting a given sport. I've done it. I was hired one time to do event photography at a hockey tournament. But it had been about 10 years since I'd shot hockey, so before my paid gig I went to several local high school hockey games to get "bad in the groove". I paid my admission fee, and shot the games from public viewing areas.

Photography from the stands probably isn't going to draw much attention. Being in areas not typical for spectators will. If you are there to take pictures for reasons other than your child participating, the organizer should probably be notified simply for your own protection. Some parents might take it to the point where the police are involved. If you have no children participating and the organizers do not know who you are, it could cause unneeded hassle for you.

You would be the exception... he reported that when he'd give his name, offer them a business card and try and address their "fears", they seemed at ease and left him alone.

You didn't say that before. You said that he would say "What is it that you're afraid of that I'll do with the photo of your child?" If he opened with that line, I don't care what he followed it up with b/c he would have already lost all credibility in my mind. Again, when people are automatically confrontational they usually know that what they are doing might upset people. Simply from a business perspective, he should not make that comment. I know I would not ever spend money with someone that made me mad the first second I ever spoke to him.

 

[Geoff_M]

Photography from the stands probably isn't going to draw much attention.

You lost me here, is the issue where you're standing, or the fact that you're taking pictures of kids that aren't yours? In the case of they guy I mentioned, he was shooting youth baseball and WAS shooting from a spectator area.

Being in areas not typical for spectators will. If you are there to take pictures for reasons other than your child participating, the organizer should probably be notified simply for your own protection. Some parents might take it to the point where the police are involved. If you have no children participating and the organizers do not know who you are, it could cause unneeded hassle for you.

While I don't disagree that there may be a bonus in notifying the sports' organizers, this assumes that you know who they are and that they are present at the event you want to shoot. There's also the added hassle to you to do so.

You didn't say that before. You said that he would say "What is it that you're afraid of that I'll do with the photo of your child?" If he opened with that line, I don't care what he followed it up with b/c he would have already lost all credibility in my mind. Again, when people are automatically confrontational they usually know that what they are doing might upset people.

You assumed his question was positioned as being confrontational. It was merely a response to the parent's "concern". He wanted to know "what" exactly was their "concern"? That doesn't mean his approach was one of "What's it to you?!?!?!" If he could get a parent think THINK about what exactly there concern was and express it, he would then have something to work with and be able to explain to them WHY he wasn't a concern to them.

 

[ukcatfan]

By that I mean not welcome to shoot my children. Again it all depends on who, where, event type, if permission was given by organizers, etc. The thing I was commenting on originally was that the photographer Geoff_M knows is automatically confrontational when asked. In my experience, someone that is automatically confrontational is usually doing something that they know that they should not be doing. A professional would never act that way and would easily be able to explain why they are there. You are probably a potential customer anyway, so they would not want to make you mad. If it is just someone with a new DSLR practicing, then they should have no problem saying that they will not shoot your child and be done with it.

I didn't get that impression of the guy Geoff mentioned, if his comment always diffuses the situation, obviously he doesn't come across as confrontational to the parents involved..



Me personally, I am not worried about that. It would more likely be me being questioned by someone else while I am photographing. Also, while I am a really friendly person, I have a somewhat intimidating appearance being a bodybuilder. People typically do not get edgy with me.and that attitude is confrontational in and of itself, if I was approached by a body builder type, I would not be intimidated, especially if he apeared to have the attitude that some bodybuilders have, I'd be quite comfortable knowing the law was on my side, and knowing that if he touched me I'd own him (Comes in really handy with teenage boys interested in my daughter )



this thread is interesting, if anyone truly believes their children are in danger from a photographer, then the TSA is not off target with the poster on the other thread..

It seems that there is more to it an that he goes on to explain who he is and what he is doing. The comment alone would probably lead to confrontations because it is kinda rude.

You are misunderstanding me. My attitude is not confrontational at all. I just happen to be someone with larger than average muscles and that alone intimidates very many people. It is not like I am trying, it just happens. I lift weights because it makes me feel good, not to scare people. BTW, I am not like on of those jersey shore d-bags or anything. I am typically dressed in a polo shirt and slacks when in public.

 

[MICKEY88]

Photography from the stands probably isn't going to draw much attention. Being in areas not typical for spectators will. If you are there to take pictures for reasons other than your child participating, the organizer should probably be notified simply for your own protection. Some parents might take it to the point where the police are involved. If you have no children participating and the organizers do not know who you are, it could cause unneeded hassle for you.



You didn't say that before. You said that he would say "What is it that you're afraid of that I'll do with the photo of your child?" If he opened with that line, I don't care what he followed it up with b/c he would have already lost all credibility in my mind. Again, when people are automatically confrontational they usually know that what they are doing might upset people. Simply from a business perspective, he should not make that comment. I know I would not ever spend money with someone that made me mad the first second I ever spoke to him.

if the event organizers are notified, why should the photographer have to answer to a parent..
how is questioning the photographer, less confrontational, than his reply ??

if someone were to approach me, and start interrogating me with no just cause I might be the one calling the police..

 

[ukcatfan]

if the event organizers are notified, why should the photographer have to answer to a parent..
how is questioning the photographer, less confrontational, than his reply ??

if someone were to approach me, and start interrogating me with no just cause I might be the one calling the police..

You don't have to answer to a parent, but it would always be in your best interest to do so politely. A simple, "I am authorized to be here by..." will almost instantly end it. Asking them what they are so worried about without letting them know why you are allowed to be there might lead to you getting your privileges revoked by the organizer. Remember that the organizer deals with the parents all the time and you are basically a stranger they are letting be there. If the police got involved, they would likely ask the non related photographer to leave before asking the concerned parent to do so. Like you said, this is a sad side to our society now.

You probably have no problems with this b/c I have seen your gear shot and your appearance screams professional, not voyeur.

Also remember that I am playing devil's advocate here b/c I personally would not likely notice another photographer raising eyebrows since I would be taking pics myself.

 

[mom2rtk]

You guys just go on and discuss this amongst yourselves........

The bottom line for me is my instinct. Like I said this has happened to us a number of times (which is why I can assure you that it is standard operating procedure at Disney). I know I sort of ask for it because of the costumes I bring for my daughter. But I will continue to trust my instincts. 9 times out of 10 it has been fine. This last time it wasn't. If it makes me uncomfortable, there is a chance it probably made my daughter uncomfortable.

This isn't about who has the bigger muscles and legal technicalities. This IS very much about common courtesy.

How about a quick "Is this OK with you?" to the parent (if you're close enough for it to be an issue, you'll be close enough to ask....).

 

[MICKEY88]

It seems that there is more to it an that he goes on to explain who he is and what he is doing. The comment alone would probably lead to confrontations because it is kinda rude.

You are misunderstanding me. My attitude is not confrontational at all. I just happen to be someone with larger than average muscles and that alone intimidates very many people. It is not like I am trying, it just happens. I lift weights because it makes me feel good, not to scare people. BTW, I am not like on of those jersey shore d-bags or anything. I am typically dressed in a polo shirt and slacks when in public.

why is the photographers comment rude,

isn't it rude to assume he has bad intent,

again sad commentary on our society, people assume, question someones intent and initiate the confrontation,

perfect example, 2 years ago I was hired to shoot a HS football team, a few games into the season, a mother of one of the cheerleaders jumped on me at a game..

I bet right about now some people are thinking it was because there were pics of her daughter on my website...

nope, she was angry because there were no pics of the cheerleaders on my site..

I was speechless, she shuffled away in a huff, the person who had hired me, dealt with it for me..

 

[Geoff_M]

Perhaps before we get too off-topic, let me try and recap:
1) You don't need parental permission to take a photo of someone else's kid in a public venue.
2) From reports here, it would appear that either: a) Some CMs will try on their own initiative to try and stop people they think are inappropriately horning in on a parent's photo shoot with their kid(s) and a Disney Character or when they feel that a photographer is making parents uncomfortable or b) There are a lot of CMs that need to be trained on proper enforcement of Disney's "You can't take picture of kids that aren't yours with our characters" policy.
3) Some parents don't like you taking photos of their kid. They fear that you may either a) Post the images on the highly sensational fully-clothed-kids-standing-with-disney-characters Yahoo! group or b) Use the photo in a cell phone ad in Indonesia or sell copies of it on eBay.
4) If you take such photo, some parents may give you the stink-eye or ask you to stop... which is their right. If they do so, it probably is a good idea to stop.
5) But if you intend to keep shooting, it's a good tactic to try and have a non-confrontational dialog with the parent to try and understand and address the stated fear.

 

[MICKEY88]

You don't have to answer to a parent, but it would always be in your best interest to do so politely. A simple, "I am authorized to be here by..." will almost instantly end it. Asking them what they are so worried about without letting them know why you are allowed to be there might lead to you getting your privileges revoked by the organizer. Remember that the organizer deals with the parents all the time and you are basically a stranger they are letting be there. If the police got involved, they would likely ask the non related photographer to leave before asking the concerned parent to do so. Like you said, this is a sad side to our society now.

You probably have no problems with this b/c I have seen your gear shot and your appearance screams professional, not voyeur.

Also remember that I am playing devil's advocate here b/c I personally would not likely notice another photographer raising eyebrows since I would be taking pics myself.

and the police would have no right to do so, at the sporting event,

in all honesty I don't worry because for my HS stuff I do go thru proper channels I have a letter of Authorization from the HS, plus for away games I contact the office or athletic director of the opposing school, explain who I am and ask if there is anything I need to do for sideline access.

 

[ukcatfan]

why is the photographers comment rude,

isn't it rude to assume he has bad intent,

again sad commentary on our society, people assume, question someones intent and initiate the confrontation,

perfect example, 2 years ago I was hired to shoot a HS football team, a few games into the season, a mother of one of the cheerleaders jumped on me at a game..

I bet right about now some people are thinking it was because there were pics of her daughter on my website...

nope, she was angry because there were no pics of the cheerleaders on my site..

I was speechless, she shuffled away in a huff, the person who had hired me, dealt with it for me..

Well, if it happened to be me, I would not be confrontational initiating the conversation, but I am a business professional and understand that being rude doesn't usually get you the outcome you are want. Some people will initiate it in a rude manner, but if you are the professional in the situation, you should keep your cool and respond with a courteous answer. It is basic customer service. Treat people how you want to be treated even if they do not treat you that way.

 

[mom2rtk]

I bet right about now some people are thinking it was because there were pics of her daughter on my website...

nope, she was angry because there were no pics of the cheerleaders on my site..

 

[ukcatfan]

and the police would have no right to do so, at the sporting event,

Whether they have the right to do so could be debated to the end of time, but that doesn't mean that they will not do it. If it is a school or other organized event then they could just claim trespassing and force you to leave. You are after all a stranger with no connection to the event taking place.

 

[MICKEY88]

Whether they have the right to do so could be debated to the end of time, but that doesn't mean that they will not do it. If it is a school or other organized event then they could just claim trespassing and force you to leave. You are after all a stranger with no connection to the event taking place.

if it's a school event an I paid, and have a ticket, trespass would be a very interesting charge