Photo sharing: Sony Alpha

[havoc315]

10 Reasons why a pro photographer switched from Nikon to Sony mirrorless.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wM_5nROeaw

Plenty of real true advantages of Sony mirrorless, but much of his list was junk... Tilt screens (Canon and Nikon have tilt screens too!), wifi (seems to be becoming standard in most newest dSLRs), memory card compatibility...

Mirrorless ultimately honestly has 2 advantages: Size savings, and EVF/live view.

 

[fractal]

Plenty of real true advantages of Sony mirrorless, but much of his list was junk... Tilt screens (Canon and Nikon have tilt screens too!), wifi (seems to be becoming standard in most newest dSLRs), memory card compatibility...

Mirrorless ultimately honestly has 2 advantages: Size savings, and EVF/live view.

Lol, yeah - he kind of stretched it to get to 10.

 

[havoc315]

Lol, yeah - he kind of stretched it to get to 10.

The true and honest lists:

Reasons Sony Mirrorless is better than traditional dSLR:
1. Smaller camera bodies.
2. Potentially cheaper bodies and systems.
3. EVF/live view superiority
3a. Focus peaking and magnification
b. chimping right in the EVF
c. judging exposure before the shot
d. face detection
..... and other similar benefits of live view/EVF as opposed to the limitations of a mirror based system.

Reasons that a traditional Canon or Nikon dSLR are still superior to Sony mirrorless:
1. Larger bodies with better ergonomics for users that require it.
2. More complete available systems -- lens and accessory choices, 3rd party support, etc.
2a. Faster native zooms available.
b. Longer telephotos available
c. More fully supported 3rd party choices
3. OVFs remain better for tracking fast action. (slideshow effect of mirrorless)
4. Particularly in the full frame offerings, the dSLRs are more responsive, faster AF, etc. (This is changing, as shown by the A6000 in the APS-C offerings).

Reasons that a Sony mirrorless are better than a Sony A-mount:
1. Smaller bodies
2. Potentially cheaper bodies.
3. No SLT mirror light loss, infringing on ISO performance.

Reasons that a Sony dSLT are better than a Sony mirrorless:
1. large camera ergonomics for those who need or want it.
2. A more complete native lens lineup (though lacking compared to Canon and Nikon)
3. In body stabilization.
4. Among full frame options, the AF and responsiveness of the A7 series is still lacking.

I think this is a legitimate list of comparisons. As I do consider switching, a part of me is very tempted by the A7 at current pricing. I can basically get the A7, new, with the 28-70 lens, for $1500... Essentially making it half the price of the D750. And I like EVF/live view.... I don't dislike a smaller camera.

 

[fractal]

Mirrorless Revolution

Recently Michael and I sat down and made the video below, The Mirrorless Revolution. We discuss the move to mirrorless and why both of us have adopted it and why we enjoy it and what we think of the present offerings in this market. Plus, Michael sends a message to Nikon and Canon.



http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/cameras/the_mirrorless_revolution.shtml

 

[havoc315]

Mirrorless Revolution

Recently Michael and I sat down and made the video below, The Mirrorless Revolution. We discuss the move to mirrorless and why both of us have adopted it and why we enjoy it and what we think of the present offerings in this market. Plus, Michael sends a message to Nikon and Canon.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/cameras/the_mirrorless_revolution.shtml

Ironically, I find the "mirrorless" revolution to be both over-rated and under-rated.

Your dSLR stalwarts are often in a stage of denial, exaggerating the benefits of dSLR, and often misunderstanding the advantages of EVF and mirrorless.

Statements like, "I need an OVF" --- Why? I do believe an OVF is better for tracking action. But outside of that, an EVF has a ton of advantages.
And these stalwarts ignore the progress being made in mirrorless (the AF is too slow (look at the A6000), there aren't enough lenses (that is changing).

At the same time, mirrorless fans completely overstate the benefits and totally downplay the areas where dSLRs are still ahead.
- The fact is, there is a greater variety of lenses for traditional dSLRs. At least for now.
- The fact is, true phase detect dSLR systems do provide superior AF for tracking action, at least for right now.
- Yes, mirrorless cameras are smaller. But once you start putting on premium lenses on a full frame mirrorless, they aren't really thaaaat much smaller.
- Focus peeking, face detection etc.... All nifty features. But none of them are really game changing critical features.
- dSLRs are always ready.. instantly turn on, batteries can last 1,000 shots... Mirrorless need to start-up, you need to constantly charge and change batteries in a long shoot.


So both sides of the argument tend to overstate their position. No different than the Canon v Nikon fanboy wars.

Ultimately, they both can produce great images, but each has a few distinctions.
What can be said confidently -- Many of the disadvantages of mirrorless are fading away at the technology matures. The lens selection will eventually be as good, or nearly as good, as dSLRs. The autofocus will eventually catch up to dSLRs (some would say it already has).

I'm waiting for Canon or Nikon to do a true mirrorless-dSLR hybrid. Keep the basic ergonomics of their current dSLR, their same lenses.. but implemented with a mirrorless/EVF body.

 

[fractal]

Havoc,

I'm waiting for Sony to create a mirrorless Amount.

Cut the size/weight down by about 30%. Use the AF technology of the A6000.

First mirrorless APS-C and/or FF camera with In Body Stabilization in a "pro" body.


But that camera may kill off the Emount.

 

[havoc315]

Havoc,

I'm waiting for Sony to create a mirrorless Amount.

Cut the size/weight down by about 30%. Use the AF technology of the A6000.

First mirrorless APS-C and/or FF camera with In Body Stabilization in a "pro" body.


But that camera may kill off the Emount.

Wouldn't kill the e-mount, which would maintain the smaller size and form factor.
Though it would beg the question, why support 2 mounts that are identical except for the size of the camera body. And you can always upsize e-mount into a larger body. You can't substantially downsize a-mount due to the required flange distance.

With current technology, mirrorless a-mount isn't possible. For reasons beyond me, on sensor phase detection does not work well with older lenses.
Thus, the a7 and a6000 still require a mirror based adapter to AF old lenses.
The Canon 70d AF system is still inferior in live view mode.
Eventually, Sony or Canon will figure it out. I suspect Canon will first -- they have more incentive to figure it out to convert their huge customer base to mirrorless. Sony has simply opted to build a new base around e-mount and adapters, so they are less dependent on the old base.

 

[zackiedawg]

Since I'm in both E and A mount camps, I'm not going to get too caught up in one or both or neither surviving...I'm enjoying both! On that note, it's time for more wildlife shots from my DSLR and Tamron 150-600mm lens, from last weekend!

Had a good full day of nice weather, so I was able to get a good mix of birds and such:

 

[fractal]

Wouldn't kill the e-mount, which would maintain the smaller size and form factor.
Though it would beg the question, why support 2 mounts that are identical except for the size of the camera body. And you can always upsize e-mount into a larger body. You can't substantially downsize a-mount due to the required flange distance.

With current technology, mirrorless a-mount isn't possible. For reasons beyond me, on sensor phase detection does not work well with older lenses.
Thus, the a7 and a6000 still require a mirror based adapter to AF old lenses.
The Canon 70d AF system is still inferior in live view mode.
Eventually, Sony or Canon will figure it out. I suspect Canon will first -- they have more incentive to figure it out to convert their huge customer base to mirrorless. Sony has simply opted to build a new base around e-mount and adapters, so they are less dependent on the old base.

Havoc,

Once again you've impressed me with your technical knowledge! Never considered the challenges of AF and "older/traditional" lenses. No wonder Nikon and Canon are slow to go sans mirror. Their biggest advantage is their broad line of lenses.

Justin,

Awesome pics!

 

[havoc315]

Havoc,

Once again you've impressed me with your technical knowledge! Never considered the challenges of AF and "older/traditional" lenses. No wonder Nikon and Canon are slow to go sans mirror. Their biggest advantage is their broad line of lenses.

Justin,

Awesome pics!

Agreed Justin -- Amazing pictures.

Fractal... Yes, I've yet to see anybody explain WHY the traditional lenses don't work with on-sensor phase detection. But it is very clearly the case.

The most advanced on-sensor phase detection systems are probably the A6000 and the Canon 70D -- But the A6000 still needs the LAEA4 adapter (with mirror) for fast AF on old lenses. Mirrorless adapters work with SAM/SSM lenses, but the AF becomes painfully slow.

The Sony A99 has an on-sensor phase detection system, but it is only intended to "supplement" the main AF system for AF tracking. And truthfully, myself and other A99 shooters have not seen this supplemental system really adding anything. We have found that the AF tracking works better with this supplemental system turned off.

The 70D -- The on-sensor system does apparently work with traditional lenses. And it is a better "live view" than other dSLRs...

But according to imaging-resource testing, in live view -- It still takes over 0.5 seconds to confirm the af and release the shutter. In traditional OVF mode on the 70D, it is less than 1/10th of a second. Here is what imaging-resource said:

"The Canon 70D's AF lag time in Live View mode was quite a bit longer than when using the optical viewfinder, and slower than most mirrorless cameras, however it was faster than average for Live View on a DSLR."

If my understanding is correct, the 70D on-sensor system also can't do tracking focus in continuous shooting.

That said, I think the 70D on-sensor system, especially if you can get just a tiny bit of improvement, might be good enough for Canon to do an entry-level consumer grade mirrorless dSLR. The burst shooting might be horrible, and the AF would be fairly slow. But still fast enough that some consumers may take the advantages of EVF/live view in exchange.

Take an older dSLR, like the Canon Rebel ti, it had a 0.2 second shutter lag and shot 3fps. So if you did a new mirrorless dSLR that had a 0.4-0.5 shutter lag... but had the advantages of EVF/live view..... I suspect there would be a market for such a camera.

Now here is the next question -- When Canon or Nikon does figure out how to really make on-sensor systems truly work with their existing lenses, will they blow Sony out of the water?

If Canon did a mirrorless 6D... that was compatible with about 100+ EOS lenses, would consumers still go with the A7 series and its handful of lens options? (Though the A7 would still be smaller).

 

[fractal]

 

[havoc315]

May as well shoot instead of just complaining..

Times Square at Night by Havoc315, on Flickr

Photographing Times Square in Black and White by Havoc315, on Flickr

 

[fractal]

Great shots Havoc!

Love the colors in the first one and the second make me feel like I'm there. Did you have a tripod with you? What ISO did you shoot the B&W one with?


From the metropolis of NYC we go to Bellefonte PA, a small historic town outside of Penn State University...

Stopped for lunch in a local pub.

Some interesting buildings.

 

[havoc315]

Great shots Havoc!

Love the colors in the first one and the second make me feel like I'm there. Did you have a tripod with you? What ISO did you shoot the B&W one with?


From the metropolis of NYC we go to Bellefonte PA, a small historic town outside of Penn State University...

Thanks. Great shots as well, really loved the composition of your pub shot.

I did haul a tripod. Unfortunately, traffic moves so slow, I couldn't fully get the blurred traffic effect I was going for -- and Times Sq is bright even at night.
In the handheld b&w shot, I was only at ISO 320.

 

[zackiedawg]

Still, great feel in the Times Sq shots - definitely makes it feel as bright and active as it is. The second B&W shot could almost be timeless - from today to 40 years ago...other than the billboard content and the one guy hovering a camera in front of his face.

Fractal - beautiful town - and great work on the fountain shots - I love the backlit glow and frozen droplets.

 

[fractal]

Thank you gentlemen.

Kudos to you Havoc for carrying the tripod.

 

[fractal]

 

[zackiedawg]

Proud to be pink:

And it wasn't just one. A flock of about 35-40 roseated spoonbills went circling around overhead:

One closeup of the flock revealed an impostor. One white ibis who I think was jealous of the big colorful pink birds really wanted to be like them, so he joined in the flock hoping no-one would notice:

Shots A580 & Tamron 150-600mm

 

[Hockeyman]

Jiko at Animal Kingdom Lodge. Single exposure HDR shot

Jiko by Mike Sperduto, on Flickr


Joined my first photo walk last week here in West Palm as part of the Kelby World Wide Photo Walk 2014

Mural in Downtown West Palm Beach by Mike Sperduto, on Flickr



Cabana Bay Beach Resort at Universal Orlando

Cabana Bay Beach Resort by Mike Sperduto, on Flickr



The Purge - Halloween Horror Nights

The Purge by Mike Sperduto, on Flickr

 

[fractal]

nice shots Mike!

Really like the last one.