PETE went too far re: PETA as Domestic Terrorists

[pjweaver]

A much better method! Needless to say, I hope this won't be one of them.

Nope!

This makes me sad. I like to see how red Pete's face can get on a Tuesday.

 

[Diz Duck]

I didn’t hear the podcast, and I’m not a huge fan of PETA, but I am a strong supporter of other animal welfare groups, and an animal lover.

I also happened to go to college in Florida, studied marine biology, and worked with Sea World’s animal rescue group while doing so. I met many fantastic, knowledgeable people who cared for those animals like their own children. They were doing wonderful, admirable and very humane rescue work and cared deeply, authentically and completely about the animals in their care.

But, I also think that whales, particularly Orcas, are far too large to ever be successfully kept in captivity. It shouldn’t happen. Period.

Both things can be true: the SeaWorld trainers are wonderful, caring people who treat the animals with the utmost respect and do significant good work AND that Orcas are simply too large and too free-roaming to have a decent quality of life in captivity.

What’s different between them and another zoos, I see asked over and over? Well, for one thing, we have strong, factual evidence, which SeaWorld has provably distorted and lied about, that Orcas in captivity have well less than half the lifespan of wild whales. The infant mortality is also immensely higher than in the wild, despite the lack of predators in a captive situation. (SeaWorld’s infant mortality has improved greatly over the past two decades, but if you look at earlier statistics, they were losing 3-5x the number of calves that survived for most of their breeding history.) Based on just these facts alone, though there are many others, these animals are provably NOT thriving, no matter how lovingly they’re cared for.

I didn’t hear this podcast, but I’ve heard Pete speak of this before and while he has every right to his opinion, the part that bothers me is that he has continually stated things about the Blackfish film and SeaWorld’s rebuttal that are factually untrue. (SeaWorld itself has had to admit that many of the things they initially offered as counterpoints — even in those commercials aired just last year — were outright falsehoods, or greatly distorted.)

Did the Blackfish film have an agenda? Yes. Undoubtably. Does SeaWorld have an agenda? Yes, also indisputable.

The difference is the Blackfish agenda is that it’s to halt the captivity of animals that are too large, and arguably too intelligent, to be successfully contained by humans. SeaWorld’s, as a corporation, is to make money.

Are some of the film’s tactics and messages one-sided? Absolutely. One-sided does not equal false.

SeaWorld has admitted, and been fined for, over and over, lying about whales whereabouts, illegally breeding them, illegally selling their whales (which is against international zoological standards), buying wild whales that they hide, and breed, in parks in less regulated parts of the world (funding the buying in other park's names and then assuming ownership), and then claiming, publicly, that “SeaWorld doesn’t buy wild whales.” (In short, buying them from parks that do is the same thing.) They rescue female whales that they then keep intentionally penned with males in order for them to become pregnant, then add the calves born in captivity to SeaWorld’s owned whale roster.

These are not opinions, but proven facts, which have happened time and again — and continue to happen, there is a female wild rescue that was supposed to be returned to the wild that is suddenly showing up in corporate records as “owned” by SeaWorld and pregnant right now after being kept with males, despite regulations that said she was supposed to be isolated, being kept in a park in, I believe, Spain (SeaWorld is claiming her “ownership” is a technical error, but hasn’t commented on the pregnancy) — and involve fairly significant malfeasance that perhaps happens in most multi-national companies, but in this case deal with living, feeling, highly intelligent creatures.

SeaWorld has now admitted placing “spies” in animal welfare organizations, etc. and distorting their statistics to hide life spans, illnesses, etc. of their whales. These are not the tactics of a pure organization … Which makes sense, because SeaWorld is not a non-profit zoo, it’s a for-profit entertainment facility.

As for ‘Why are animal rights organizations only worried about whales'? They’re not. There are issues with keeping just about every top-level, wide-ranging mammal species successfully in captivity. Whales are just (literally) the biggest fish. Zoos can do very good work, both in education and preservation. (And, I should add, so can SeaWorld with other animals.) Zoos have saved species from extinction (e.g. black rhino), but there are some animals, humans can not, and should not, successfully keep in captivity … None more so than Orcas. You can’t recreate an ocean, in even the world’s biggest tank. Wild whales migrate thousands of miles annually — often swimming hundreds of miles in a single day -- to breed and feed. They live and hunt in large, family pods, that can number up to 30 whales, not singly or in unrelated pairs as SeaWorld keeps them. In the wild, fights resulting in injuries among pod members are almost unheard of. (Perhaps because when fights break out, there is an entire ocean to escape in.) In captivity, whales regularly harm one another, or themselves (banging head against tank sides, breaking teeth off on bars, etc.), regularly. Wild family groups stay together for their entire 30-50 year (wild) life span, and wild whales as old as 80 have been documented. The average life span for SeaWorld’s captive Orcas is 13-15 years, and mother-child whales are routinely separated as young as three years old. These are gentle, well-studied, easy-to-track creatures that have never killed or harmed a human in the wild, intentionally or accidentally. (Like the slumped dorsal fin, that also only happens in captivity.)

Think what you want about Blackfish. It’s a movie and, honestly, one I’ve never seen, because I already knew the message and thought it would just bum me out. Having spent time “backstage” in Orlando, amongst its people, I left thinking just about everyone I met there was awesome and truly cared for these animals. But I also hated so much of what I saw that I changed my major and decided that wasn’t what I wanted to do with my life, because the conditions, no matter how hard people tried, were just so obviously not suitable for these giant animals to have any real quality of life. (And, for the record, amongst all the parks worldwide that keep Orcas, the U.S. SeaWorld locales are undeniably the best facilities so if they’re that depressing ... Imagine the others.)

Taking all emotion out of it, and simply looking at the survival and health statistics between wild and captive Orcas shows pretty convincingly that captivity is not suitable for whales.

Thanks for being articulate on the issue. And I appreciate you sharing your perspective.

 

[Tom P.]

Referring to a peaceful political group that you don't happen to like as "terrorists" is dishonest and shameful.

PETA is neither peaceful nor truly concerned with animal welfare. SeaWorld has done more for animal welfare in the last year than PETA has done since its founding. Pete was absolutely correct and should apologize to no one. The one who should be apologizing to legitimate animal welfare groups is PETA.

 

[Boski]

People keep bashing on PETA yet I don't see anyone bashing CNN who purchased the distribution rights and pushed(promoted) its "narrative" through its various news outlets. CNN has far more reach then PETA yet nobody has not one word about it.

 

[thegajone]

People just seem to want to be offended by things. The word "terrorist" is just that; a word. It has many definitions and meanings, and can be used in different ways. It's like the word cancer; I have cancer and have battled it for over 5 years, but I don't get bent out of shape when people use the word cancer in ways other than pertaining to the disease (i.e. when some people use the phrase "he's a cancer to his team" in sports), because I understand that it's just a word that can be applied to many things.

The same goes for the word terrorist. People are getting bent out of shape because Pete used it to describe PETA? Seriously? Get over it, folks.

 

[Diz Duck]

People just seem to want to be offended by things. The word "terrorist" is just that; a word. It has many definitions and meanings, and can be used in different ways. It's like the word cancer; I have cancer and have battled it for over 5 years, but I don't get bent out of shape when people use the word cancer in ways other than pertaining to the disease (i.e. when some people use the phrase "he's a cancer to his team" in sports), because I understand that it's just a word that can be applied to many things.

The same goes for the word terrorist. People are getting bent out of shape because Pete used it to describe PETA? Seriously? Get over it, folks.

Branding someone or a group a terrorist has serious consequences, and diminishes the seriousness of the word. If Pete means that PETA aren't DOMESTIC TERRORISTS that are harmful and violent to functioning societies, but terrorists, in that they make people feel bad, he should say so, or get a thesaurus. Funny how the people that claim those expressing concerns regarding language about PETA have thin skin, are the same people that are so offended that they throw around the TERRORIST word because SeaWorld (in their eyes) has been unfairly tarnished.

 

[Princess Jes]

Branding someone or a group a terrorist has serious consequences, and diminishes the seriousness of the word. If Pete means that PETA aren't DOMESTIC TERRORISTS that are harmful and violent to functioning societies, but terrorists, in that they make people feel bad, he should say so, or get a thesaurus. Funny how the people that claim those expressing concerns regarding language about PETA have thin skin, are the same people that are so offended that they throw around the TERRORIST word because SeaWorld (in their eyes) has been unfairly tarnished.

Stop using the 'T' word!! My precious eyes can't bear it!!!!

 

[Diz Duck]

Stop using the 'T' word!! My precious eyes can't bear it!!!!

Please read the rules for posting on DisBoards. Thanks.

 

[pjweaver]

Saying PETA is a terrorist organization is like someone saying ISIS are freedom fighters (I am sure the British thought along similar when the colonies in America started trouble). From one persons point of view an argument can be made. Regardless of my perspective on issues, I will defend peoples right of free speech. PETA is free to make a point and Pete is free to rebuke them for it.

new hashtag: protectanddefendtheConstitutionoftheUnitedStatesofAmerica

 

[pjweaver]

My next post will be on how to field dress a deer to preserve the meat

 

[*NikkiBell*]

This thread is now closed.