Parents passed, banks giving conflicting advice

[Hisgirl]

My parents passed away in memory care, 11 hours apart. They had a beautiful long life.

They had very little at that point, mostly only clothes and their wedding rings.

Their estate consists of a bank account and one investment account, both POD, TOD (payable on death, transfer on death).

The way these work ,is that the beneficiaries receive the balance legally, outside of probate. This is how it works. I"m a financial professional. I teach this stuff.

However, the first banker told me I had to bring letters of testamentary with the death cert, another said I did not. The probate court said without assets to probate, no reason to even file the will, so no letters.

Another banker agreed.

My lawyer said no to filing.

Another banker said that if their bank doesn't 'know me' they might require it.

Good grief.

Probate clerk was adament that I not come in and file their wills if they don't have assets.

POD and TOD should be death certificates and ID of beneficiaries, right??

What has been YOUR experience with this?

 

[Colleen27]

My experience was exactly how you say it should be. I was POD/TOD beneficiary on all of my mother's financial assets, and none (across two banks and two investment/financial services companies) needed more than the death certificate.

I did have to go through probate because she passed before updating the deed on her home, and filing her final tax return did require the letter of authority from probate court (though I'm not sure if that would be required absent a probate case - my software asked about the status of the estate before directing me to enclose a copy of the letter). But that is literally the only time I've been asked for it.

 

[Christine]

My experience aligns with yours. If an account is POD/TOD all we had to show was the death certificate and our ID that we were the beneficiaries. End of story.

 

[fla4fun]

I am sorry for your loss. I know from experience that it is painful to lose both parents so close together, even if they had a long and happy life.

My experience with financial was the same as you expect, simply showing ID.

 

[Snowflakey]

I lost my mother, step father and mother in law all within a year. You are exactly right with what you are saying. I had no issues just showing the death certificate and in some cases the Will showing I was executrix.

 

[focusondisney]

Very sorry for your loss.

 

[SandyinMonterey]

My Mom passed 2 years ago, I was the executor of her Will. My Mom's Will waived probate. She was very organized and every account she had, including life insurance (one an annuity and another small one with her job) all had both my sister's and my name on it. I dealt with multiple accounts, for most all I had to do was present the death certificate. Others wanted the letter from the court saying I was the executor and had the authority to do what needed to be done. In the later case, that meant filing the Will within the court system. It wasn't difficult to do, don't need a lawyer for it. I actually did it from GA and court was in NJ.

 

[china mom]

The whole point of TOD and POD is to NOT have to open an estate. What else do the banks think it is for?

 

[sam_gordon]

My parents passed away in memory care, 11 hours apart. They had a beautiful long life.

They had very little at that point, mostly only clothes and their wedding rings.

Their estate consists of a bank account and one investment account, both POD, TOD (payable on death, transfer on death).

The way these work ,is that the beneficiaries receive the balance legally, outside of probate. This is how it works. I"m a financial professional. I teach this stuff.

However, the first banker told me I had to bring letters of testamentary with the death cert, another said I did not. The probate court said without assets to probate, no reason to even file the will, so no letters.

Another banker agreed.

My lawyer said no to filing.

Another banker said that if their bank doesn't 'know me' they might require it.

Good grief.

Probate clerk was adament that I not come in and file their wills if they don't have assets.

POD and TOD should be death certificates and ID of beneficiaries, right??

What has been YOUR experience with this?

I'm sorry for your loss.

I am confused... are these three bankers from the same bank (presumably the one where your parent's accounts are)? If so, work with the banker(s?) who agrees with you.

 

[Hisgirl]

I'm sorry for your loss.

I am confused... are these three bankers from the same bank (presumably the one where your parent's accounts are)? If so, work with the banker(s?) who agrees with you.

Three bankers from the same company, but different branches. One banker told me I was the owner of the account (wrong). It was just bizarre.

One banker told me if they 'know' me it will be easier. It shouldn't be subjective. That's the whole point of TOD & POD.

 

[sksjasams]

I’m so sorry for your losses. My mom passed last November and my dad passed this December.
In both cases, I was the beneficiary on any any life insurance and retirement accounts. They had each set up their bank accounts to be POD to me. In both cases, I just needed to provide death certificate and id to the banks for their accounts.
My mom had a condo and had that set up as TOD to me. I did have a lawyer help me with that.
I never opened probate for either one of them.
I had some trouble resolving a few issues with both of my parents, for example AT&T and car insurance refunds where they insisted on writing the refund checks to “The Estate of..” even though I told them there was no estate and no estate account. They all eventually rewrote the checks, but it was a big hassle.

 

[HopperFan]

I was the receiver of multiple CDs and IRA from my mother. All that was needed was Death Certificate and proof of my ID so they were were disbursing it to the correct person. CDs were done in person, IRA was done via email and calls. DS also was beneficiary of her life insurance, we provided death certificate and they already had the trust information to pay it to.

She also had a bank account but my name was also on it so I didn't need anything to cash and close the account.

The letters of testamentary were only used for accounts that were held by the estate. Nothing outside of probate needed them.

 

[tvguy]

It often depends which state you live in and if the estate was properly set up.
I'm in California and my mom's estate was properly set up. So despite owning a house, a car, and having savings and investments, Probate wasn't necessary. Everything was either in a trust, right of survivorship, or jointly owned. All I had to do was mail death certificates to Social Security, her pension plan, an annuity she had and her life insurance company. Never heard of filing a will, nobody ever asked to see it. When I sold the house, I just had to provide a copy of the trust.

Now Texas, for example has all kinds of different rules. When my FIL passed away, his wife, my wife's stepmother could not register his car in her name despite it being willed to her. Texas law says when someone passes away, blood relatives have first claim on vehicles without regard to a will. My wife had to sign a special form, and have it notarized waving any claim to the car.

 

[Skippy918]

My MIL died a few months ago. FIL predeceased her. Her house has a transfer on death but I don’t know how long it takes to go through. her will is getting probated though and it hasn’t happened yet. She died in October. She had a lot of debt and I guess the creditors want their money. We have her car in possession but can’t do anything with that either until probate happens.

 

[slo]

I’m no help with this subject, but I do want to give you my sympathy and condolences .
God bless you and your family

 

[Praying Colonel]

My parents passed away in memory care, 11 hours apart. They had a beautiful long life.

They had very little at that point, mostly only clothes and their wedding rings.

Their estate consists of a bank account and one investment account, both POD, TOD (payable on death, transfer on death).

The way these work ,is that the beneficiaries receive the balance legally, outside of probate. This is how it works. I"m a financial professional. I teach this stuff.

However, the first banker told me I had to bring letters of testamentary with the death cert, another said I did not. The probate court said without assets to probate, no reason to even file the will, so no letters.

Another banker agreed.

My lawyer said no to filing.

Another banker said that if their bank doesn't 'know me' they might require it.

Good grief.

Probate clerk was adament that I not come in and file their wills if they don't have assets.

POD and TOD should be death certificates and ID of beneficiaries, right??

What has been YOUR experience with this?

My experience under our state's laws (disclaimer: every state's laws are different, etc.) is the lawyer/banker are correct: those aren't probate assets if there's a valid POD/TOD designation. They shouldn't be listed on a probate petition since they're not probate assets, and the court won't permit a probate filing on a 0 estate.

The few times I've had some friction on POD/TOD payment, it's usually user error on the part of the employee (which is funny, because it's their own designation they're refusing to honor!). If you take it up the food chain in that financial institution you should get a different answer.

 

[princesscinderella]

I’m sorry for your loss

 

[disykat]

I'm sorry for your loss. Is this a giant nationwide bank? I had a really hard time working with Wells Fargo on my parent's estate. Mom is still living and I ended up switching most of their accounts to a local bank several years before Dad passed due to his dementia. (I'd be told by one person POA was adequate and then I'd show up with all the appropriate paperwork and they'd say they HAD to see him in person - which wasn't going to happening.) We went round and around, because I KNEW they had to let me take care of things because they were officially incapacitated, but they wouldn't. I had the ability to withdraw so I withdrew most of their money and I have one account of theirs left there, but make sure the balance stays really low and just use it because that's where their autopays and deposits were all set up. My name is now joint on that account AND I keep it low enough that it will not be required to go through probate, so hopefully it won't be an issue. I can close it when mom passes. (I'll believe that when I see it though, I can envision this stupid account sitting there at 0 for all eternity.) The people there were nice enough but it was like the suddenly "the system" would flag and not let them proceed.

Their "local" bank is now in another state since I've moved mom by me, but I've never had any problem working with them or getting answers.

 

[MrsPete]

I have no experience here, but I've done exactly what your parents did: I've put my children on my accounts as POD (Payable on Death), and I thought they'll be able to take a Death Certificate to the bank and walk out with my money. My will says the kids split everything -- bank accounts are especially easy to split in half.

I'm disturbed to think that the bank might give them trouble.

 

[longboard55]

We were advised to order several death certificates. You show one and that was all that was required