Parenting is hard..

[kimblebee]

I’m going to give you some advice Kimmy. Don’t tease me about nice warm weather ever again.

As for Q, it is illegal across this entire country for anyone to tattoo anyone under 18 without written parental consent. I think that your kiddo is tattooing other kids is possibly more of a concern. I can see those red flags all the way here.

You can call me ANYTHING but Kimmy.

I 100% agree that she shouldn’t be giving these tats to anyone else. I did clarify and say it was just one friend, one time, and I told her again not to do it to anyone else. It’s not like we’ve got kids lined up at the back door waiting for their appointment lol

 

[sjrec]

May I ask if you have teenagers? Even in the best of relationships, teenagers get a notion to do something and aren't going to let a little thing like permission get in their way. Most know perfectly well what their parents will say if they discuss it and have a fair idea of what the consequences are going to be after the fact. They do it anyway. Not even necessarily to be defiant, but just because they're hell-bent on having their way and know that no amount of "talking" would avail in getting a parent's approval.

This is very, very typical teen behavior and I flat-out disbelieve anybody who says they: a) never did it themselves as teens; and/or b) say they absolutely never had a situation like this with their own kids. If you haven't yet, just give it time.

Exactly-the old “easier to ask forgiveness than beg permission.”

 

[kimblebee]

Exactly-the old “easier to ask forgiveness than beg permission.”

Very true. If she would have asked for permission I would have said no.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Tattooing other people? That's a heck to the no. The legal and health ramifications can be really bad. Infections are a possibility at a profession, well-reputed establishment. On an untrained (i.e. professional level), DIY-style those risks go way up.

Getting a tattoo? Not an issue in my book. But getting one without speaking to you first when she's considered a minor? Yeah that's another heck to the no. My mom was chillax about tattoos (and a belly button ring too lol) but it was always with her permission and it would have been at a shop not done by a friend of mine. I'd still like to get a tattoo but 1) fear of the pain 2) unsure of the location have stopped me from doing this for years. I never wanted to get a belly button ring but I had several friends that did (all with parental permission) with 1 getting one when she was 19 (so no parental permission needed).

I do agree with other posters there was probably a level of confusion about acceptability.

FWIW at least the people I am around would not equate stick and poke to prison. Maybe others would but of the people I can think of in my group who would have an issue with it it's because it's that it is a tattoo that they have an issue with not the method used to make the tattoo. That's just the people around me.

 

[DisneyOma]

I’m going to give you some advice Kimmy. Don’t tease me about nice warm weather ever again.

As for Q, it is illegal across this entire country for anyone to tattoo anyone under 18 without written parental consent. I think that your kiddo is tattooing other kids is possibly more of a concern. I can see those red flags all the way here.

I agree - the liability the OP's daughter took on when she tattooed a friend - if something had happened, the daughter (and the parent) could be held liable, in a big way. Like, lose everything big.

You can call me ANYTHING but Kimmy.

I 100% agree that she shouldn’t be giving these tats to anyone else. I did clarify and say it was just one friend, one time, and I told her again not to do it to anyone else. It’s not like we’ve got kids lined up at the back door waiting for their appointment lol

And how did that one friend's parents like the tattoo? Were they cool with having an unlicensed, uninsured, untrained kid do it? Because if that was my child coming home with this, I'd be very upset, to say the least.

 

[CarolAnn856]

I agree - the liability the OP's daughter took on when she tattooed a friend - if something had happened, the daughter (and the parent) could be held liable, in a big way. Like, lose everything big.

From what I've read, it would most likely be a misdemeanor if there was a charge at all, and even that is not necessarily true in all states. I suppose the other family could sue them, but even then I doubt that any award would rise to the "lose everything" level. I agree, though, that it never should have happened and could possibly end badly for an unlicensed-and-underage-tattoo-artist.

 

[ronandannette]

From what I've read, it would most likely be a misdemeanor if there was a charge at all, and even that is not necessarily true in all states. I suppose the other family could sue them, but even then I doubt that any award would rise to the "lose everything" level. I agree, though, that it never should have happened and could possibly end badly for an unlicensed-and-underage-tattoo-artist.

Quite a few factors in the Canadian legal system would prevail here too. It is not defacto that all parents are automatically held liable for all actions of their children. The age of the minor and a parent’s knowledge of and reasonable ability to limit the action of the child comes into play. In the case of one person willingly having another person tattoo them under conditions a reasonable person would know to be risky, also assumes a great deal of personal responsibility for the risk. At 17, I’d bet money any judge would deem the recipient of such a tattoo competent to give consent.

Then there’s the whole issue of damages. Damages awarded in civil suits are based on quantifiable loss. Personal injury awards are calculated according to various charts and graphs and capped by both federal and provincial legislation. OOP medical expenses in most cases are non-existent, so there’s no recovery for that. There is precedent for “pain and suffering” and “mental distress” but it is not nearly so commonly awarded here as maybe it is in the States. I’d be surprised if parents being furious would meet the standards necessary to qualify.

Finally and perhaps most important - finding a lawyer that would advise pursuing such a case wouldn’t be easy. Fees on contingency are a thing, but the upside would need to make the endeavour worthwhile. A case like this would also probably take years to make the court docket and would absolutely be expected to settle rather than be tried. In a case like this, what would the 17 y.o. defendant have to settle with? All in all, there’s basically 0% chance the OP or her daughter face any legal threat.

 

[mjkacmom]

I agree - the liability the OP's daughter took on when she tattooed a friend - if something had happened, the daughter (and the parent) could be held liable, in a big way. Like, lose everything big.



And how did that one friend's parents like the tattoo? Were they cool with having an unlicensed, uninsured, untrained kid do it? Because if that was my child coming home with this, I'd be very upset, to say the least.

I’d be upset to, upset that my idiot kid let a friend tattoo her.

 

[cabanafrau]

I have never seen a prison tatt that looked good. I'd start saving now for when she wants to get it fixed professionally.

The nurse in me, who has seen far more hepatitis, HIV, endocarditis, heart valve vegetations, sepsis, cellulitis, and necrotizing fasciitis than anyone ever should, thinks purposely sticking yourself with a non-sterile needle, or allowing your friend to do, is incredibly risky and unwise. So many horrible infections can be caused by these infections. I have no issue with tattooos if that's your thing (although they aren't for me), but I think people should be safe about it. A mail order DIY kit with a youtube tutorial is not what I'd consider safe.

From what I've read, it would most likely be a misdemeanor if there was a charge at all, and even that is not necessarily true in all states. I suppose the other family could sue them, but even then I doubt that any award would rise to the "lose everything" level. I agree, though, that it never should have happened and could possibly end badly for an unlicensed-and-underage-tattoo-artist.

There can be large consequences at state that have nothing to do with criminal or financial ones.

 

[CarolAnn856]

There can be large consequences at state that have nothing to do with criminal or financial ones.

I never said there wasn't.

 

[ronandannette]

There can be large consequences at state that have nothing to do with criminal or financial ones.

Agree but I think most, if not all of them are actually for the recipient such as disfigurement and health risks. If I'm missing something, please clarify.

I’d be upset to, upset that my idiot kid let a friend tattoo her.

This was exactly my reaction when my DS did it. 100% on him. It didn't even occur to me to be mad at the "artist".

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

Agree but I think most, if not all of them are actually for the recipient such as disfigurement and health risks. If I'm missing something, please clarify.

This was exactly my reaction when my DS did it. 100% on him. It didn't even occur to me to be mad at the "artist".

My first reaction would be to lose it on my kid. My second reaction would be who did this??

 

[DisneyOma]

From what I've read, it would most likely be a misdemeanor if there was a charge at all, and even that is not necessarily true in all states. I suppose the other family could sue them, but even then I doubt that any award would rise to the "lose everything" level. I agree, though, that it never should have happened and could possibly end badly for an unlicensed-and-underage-tattoo-artist.

I'm talking death here, or disfigurement from infection, etc.

Quite a few factors in the Canadian legal system would prevail here too. It is not defacto that all parents are automatically held liable for all actions of their children. The age of the minor and a parent’s knowledge of and reasonable ability to limit the action of the child comes into play. In the case of one person willingly having another person tattoo them under conditions a reasonable person would know to be risky, also assumes a great deal of personal responsibility for the risk. At 17, I’d bet money any judge would deem the recipient of such a tattoo competent to give consent.

Then there’s the whole issue of damages. Damages awarded in civil suits are based on quantifiable loss. Personal injury awards are calculated according to various charts and graphs and capped by both federal and provincial legislation. OOP medical expenses in most cases are non-existent, so there’s no recovery for that. There is precedent for “pain and suffering” and “mental distress” but it is not nearly so commonly awarded here as maybe it is in the States. I’d be surprised if parents being furious would meet the standards necessary to qualify.

Finally and perhaps most important - finding a lawyer that would advise pursuing such a case wouldn’t be easy. Fees on contingency are a thing, but the upside would need to make the endeavour worthwhile. A case like this would also probably take years to make the court docket and would absolutely be expected to settle rather than be tried. In a case like this, what would the 17 y.o. defendant have to settle with? All in all, there’s basically 0% chance the OP or her daughter face any legal threat.

Even if the kid died from an infection caused by the tattooing?

 

[ronandannette]

I'm talking death here, or disfigurement from infection, etc.



Even if the kid died from an infection caused by the tattooing?

I'd have to research that some more. My earlier post was about a civil suit based on the actual circumstances - nobody died. My guess though, is that while a death would potentially effect the amount of the lawsuit and possible award, the facts of the case wouldn't change in terms of parental liability and personal responsibility of the deceased. Tatooing without a license still wouldn't take on criminal implications because the act itself is not criminal.

Now that I've looked up the actual statute, I can't find anywhere where the "tattooer" is required to be licensed personally at all, or what agency/authority would issue such a license. It does violate the statute for anybody to tattoo anybody under 18 without parental consent.
http://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/dmis/documents/docext/bl/1987/1987.4653.pdf

 

[kimblebee]

I'd have to research that some more. My earlier post was about a civil suit based on the actual circumstances - nobody died. My guess though, is that while a death would potentially effect the amount of the lawsuit and possible award, the facts of the case wouldn't change in terms of parental liability and personal responsibility of the deceased. Tatooing without a license still wouldn't take on criminal implications because the act itself is not criminal.

Now that I've looked up the actual statute, I can't find anywhere where the "tattooer" is required to be licensed personally at all, or what agency/authority would issue such a license. It does violate the statute for anybody to tattoo anybody under 18 without parental consent.
http://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/dmis/documents/docext/bl/1987/1987.4653.pdf

Et tu @ronandannette?

 

[ronandannette]

Et tu @ronandannette?

Even me what? Sorry - you need to put the dots a little closer together...

 

[wgeo]

As for the very original post. Yup, parenting is hard and I most definitely have felt like a hypocrite before.

As for stick and poke, I have honestly never heard of that and am gonna talk to my kids about it now.

As for tatoos, good friends husband had one done on his forearm and went to a cheap place - it got infected and the many month ordeal to treat the infection, scrape off skin and eventually get a skin graft is hopefully enough to detract my kids from getting tatoos in the near future.

 

[kimblebee]

Even me what? Sorry - you need to put the dots a little closer together...

I’m just surprised that you’re taking up with the suing talk. You said yourself that the chances of her being sued are slim to none.

 

[ronandannette]

I’m just surprised that you’re taking up with the suing talk. You said yourself that the chances of her being sued are slim to none.

Did you even read my posts? Please do go back and look it over again. I was discussing the reasons why there's virtually NO CHANCE of her (or you) being sued. In the second post I was responding to @DisneyOma 's hypothetical (and hyperbolic) suggestion that the death of one of the "tattooees" would be a game-changer. Based on what I know, I'm not sure it would even make a difference. The severity of the outcome doesn't fundamentally change the nature of the act. But I'm no lawyer.

As I'm sure you gleaned from my other posts in the thread, I'm the last person that would suggest anybody sue your DD, let alone you. I held my own kid 100% responsible for his own jack assery when he had somebody do the exact same thing to him.

 

[kimblebee]

Did you even read my posts? Please do go back and look it over again. I was discussing the reasons why there's virtually NO CHANCE of her (or you) being sued. In the second post I was responding to @DisneyOma 's hypothetical (and hyperbolic) suggestion that the death of one of the "tattooees" would be a game-changer. Based on what I know, I'm not sure it would even make a difference. The severity of the outcome doesn't fundamentally change the nature of the act. But I'm no lawyer.

As I'm sure you gleaned from my other posts in the thread, I'm the last person that would suggest anybody sue your DD, let alone you. I held my own kid 100% responsible for his own jack assery when he had somebody do the exact same thing to him.

Reading it over again, I took it a way you didn’t mean. I’m sorry