Parenting advice needed??? Help!

[DawnM]

This is what they are learning.

Beg once, get what I want, no.
Beg 100 times to get what I want, no.

I have to beg 1,000 times and THEN I get what I want, so if I just keep doing it, I will get it, so I will keep doing it. She always caves, but it is a song and dance I must go through until I get what I want.

You and your DH have got to sit down and write out clear consequences and lovingly carry them out with your kids. Then you need to sit down with your children and clearly explain the rules and consequences, and then you HAVE TO FOLLOW THROUGH!

They won't like it, they will possibly try to beg 1,000 more times, but every time you give in, they win. EVERY TIME.

You can respond calmly, "I love you and you are not getting your ipod back." Say it 1,001 times!~

But you won't have to the next time, or the next time......because they will have gotten the message by then.

Thanks all....

Unfortunately sending them to their room is no easy task either. They will beg and beg and beg and come out of their rooms 1,000 times until i lose it again. I really feel like I have NO CONTROL over them at all. It's really pathetic. I am mostly in charge because my husband works a lot of hours. When he is home he sees all the drama and wants to go right back to work. If I followed through with a punishment for everything thing they do wrong they would never have a life. As far as the ipod incident. He was told your not playing that during the concert. He asked to have it at least for the car ride but was to leave it in the car once we got there. He snuck it into the building in his pants. Once I noticed he had it in the building i confiscated it and thats when the begging began. It was so embarrassing when my husband lost his cool. There are times I pull my DS12's hair to get his attention when he is in a rage or just being out of control nasty. How will I explain that to a therapist? DS12 will tell the therapist I pull his hair and next thing you know DSS will be at my door. We are not abusive parents but sometimes you need to react to get them to listen, even then it doesn't work! Good ole fashioned spankings did the trick for us. When I would talk back to my Mother I would get a back hand right across the mouth. Worked for my mouth, but society doesn't allow for that today. Parenting is so difficult and the hardest job around!

 

[Liberty Belle]

Hi all,

I am at my witts end with my kids. Two boys ages 12 & 10. The 12 year old is very mouthy, talks back constantly, disrespects me and treats his brother like an enemy. My 10 year old will not take no for an answer and will harp and harp and harp until we snap and make a scene in public. The 10 year old also very immature and acts up in public for attention. I just cannot get a grip on this. There are days I want to pack my bags and give up. How do I handle the 10 yr old not taking no for an answer? Here is an example.....
He wanted to use his ipod during his brothers band concert. I told him it was not allowed. Instead of accepting that, he kept begging and begging and begging for the ipod while were in line to go in. After hearing him beg enough and telling him to stop 1,000 times my husband grabbed his ear and twisted it in front of a group of people. I was mortified!!!! This is what he does to us, pushes and pushes us til we have reached a boiling point. What message would I have sent if I gave in?

My 12 year old is very negative and nasty to his brother. He never says anything nice to him or about him, always picks fights with him, and is also physical with him. I have taken his electronics away for his abuse, talking back and disrespect. Again, my husband blew up the other day and started screaming at him until he was in tears and the very next day he was right back to the same nasty negative attitude. Please give us some advice how to deal with these issues. I know they are minor to some people but we are not experts and try to do the right thing. No flaming please....we are reaching out for advice. Not looking to be attacked for doing it wrong.
Thanks so much!

What I've learned with my son (he has ADHD and SID and his behaviors could/sometimes still can get like your youngest's), is you absolutely have to remove all emotion from when you punish him. Blowing up or even sounding angry just makes him exponentially worse.

It sounds like your oldest is a bit jealous of your younger son. We usually tend to give more attention to the youngest, because they usually need more, but I think sometimes the older kids get left out and they can take it out on the younger kids.

How do each of them do in school, behaviorally? If there are behavior issues in school, as well (especially with your youngest), you may want to get some testing done to rule out ADHD or something similar.

Family counseling would probably help a lot.

 

[Liberty Belle]

BIG fan of John Rosemomd who writes every tues in paper. Common sense parenting. You simply strip each room of everything except the bed and take the door off. Like another OP said you and your husband come together and set the ground rules and expectations. If these are not followed each kid goes to their room and can sit on their bed and look at the ceiling for x amount of hours. This will get real boring and they will realize that you the parent are in control. You set the time limit. I have heard parents do this for hours at time. After the incident that child comes to you for a family meeting to talk things over. Repeat this for as long as possible until you see the desired bEhavior. This would also be for going out with friends or things you do as a family. You might have to cancel many things,but in time things should improve. You as the parent have to stay strong and follow through every single time no exceptions. I would also not let the 2 stay home by themselves. You are inviting lots of trouble. Would love to hear back to see how things are going.

While this works for some kids, it absolutely did not work for my youngest son. We've learned with him, as far as discipline goes, swift, natural and short-lived punishments/discipline works far, far better than harsh, longer termed punishment.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Thanks all....

Unfortunately sending them to their room is no easy task either. They will beg and beg and beg and come out of their rooms 1,000 times until i lose it again. I really feel like I have NO CONTROL over them at all. It's really pathetic. I am mostly in charge because my husband works a lot of hours. When he is home he sees all the drama and wants to go right back to work. If I followed through with a punishment for everything thing they do wrong they would never have a life. As far as the ipod incident. He was told your not playing that during the concert. He asked to have it at least for the car ride but was to leave it in the car once we got there. He snuck it into the building in his pants. Once I noticed he had it in the building i confiscated it and thats when the begging began. It was so embarrassing when my husband lost his cool. There are times I pull my DS12's hair to get his attention when he is in a rage or just being out of control nasty. How will I explain that to a therapist? DS12 will tell the therapist I pull his hair and next thing you know DSS will be at my door. We are not abusive parents but sometimes you need to react to get them to listen, even then it doesn't work! Good ole fashioned spankings did the trick for us. When I would talk back to my Mother I would get a back hand right across the mouth. Worked for my mouth, but society doesn't allow for that today. Parenting is so difficult and the hardest job around!

Don't worry about the therapist. It sounds like you really need counseling before things get worse. Do it now while they're young.

And, I can't emphasize enough, you really, really, really need to try and keep your cool and take all emotion out of it. That will help so much.

 

[tink20]

Don't beat yourself up. If you don't want to do counseling, try and find some books, that may give you some ideas on how to deal with certain situations. You must not give in to the 10yr old, if you do, then he knows that his begging is working. My DD was very head strong and would test me....she turned out fine and we have a great relationship.

You need to get it under control now, because the teenage years are at your back door. Also, as hard as it can be, you and your DH must keep your cool. Walk away if you have to, blowing up and yelling does no good. I know how easy it is to get to that point, I am not flaming or judging. I have had my own screaming matches with DD when she was younger.

You could try a positive reward system and also, when they do something nice or behave, praise them. I know that sounds like something you would do with a younger child, but I think it still works with older kids. My DS held the door open for me once, and I praised him about what a little gentleman he was, and now he rushes to doors so he can hold it open and also holds it open for strangers.

Also, if you have time, maybe this summer, the boys could do some volunteer work for those less fortunate. They can see how blessed they are.

You are a good parent.......good luck!

 

[PollyannaMom]

I would focus on the whining/begging, as that's my personal pet peeve as well. Do your boys get an allowance? What whould work with mine is deducting a certain amount from it for every instance of asking/begging/pleading/whatever after you have given your answer the first time. Discuss this with them beforehand, carry a little notebook with you everywhere, and record those deductions. Don't say much out loud, just do it. The less you engage, the better.

Right now, they know they can outlast you - that you will either give in or "snap", and I expect they consider either of those a "win". You have to find the strength to outlast them - so figure out what you adults need, for yourselves, to build up your patience. If you're exhausted, stressed, etc., they have the advantage in stamina. So "put your oxygen mask on first, and then assist your child".

Also, try to find some positive time with each child. Maybe there is a way to plan some fun things, maybe it just starts with each of you taking one on errands with you. But it can really help them to just have some individual attention, away from each other. If they are getting that just in the course of a normal day, they are less likely to seek it by acting up.

 

[okeydokey]

Don't worry about telling the therapist everything. They have heard worse and they want to help you.

I agree about the simple stating of facts and the unemotional follow through. Their goal is to get you upset, so you need to be calm. Don't forget to catch them doing something good when you can and praise and reward that behavior. They need to see the difference so they can see that positive behavior is to their benefit.

 

[bdcp]

My guess is that this behavior is nothing new and that they were like this when they were younger. You have to change long held behaviors on all sides. A 2 yr old that understands consequences grows up to a pre teen that understands them. I see so many parents giving into their toddler's tantrums not understanding that that behavior will continue since it works for them. At their ages, you need to go to family cousneling. You need a independent third party to work through this and set up boundaries. This is not going to magically get better because no one's behavior is just going to change. You all deal with each other they way you've learned/been taught to. That needs to change.

We raised two boys that were 28 months apart. Did they bicker, sure, but there were limits to how they treated each other and us. Begging also never got them what they wanted. They were good kids and have grown up into wonderful adults. Some kids are more difficult than others, but there are ways to deal with them and not have these blowups.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Don't worry about telling the therapist everything. They have heard worse and they want to help you.

I agree about the simple stating of facts and the unemotional follow through. Their goal is to get you upset, so you need to be calm. Don't forget to catch them doing something good when you can and praise and reward that behavior. They need to see the difference so they can see that positive behavior is to their benefit.

It could be that they get in trouble so often, they forget what it feels like to get along and feel good about themselves.

OP, I'd also try to go out of your way to be pleasant and have fun things planned to do with your boys at home.

 

[Nancyg56]

Thanks all....

Unfortunately sending them to their room is no easy task either. They will beg and beg and beg and come out of their rooms 1,000 times until i lose it again. I really feel like I have NO CONTROL over them at all. It's really pathetic. I am mostly in charge because my husband works a lot of hours. When he is home he sees all the drama and wants to go right back to work. If I followed through with a punishment for everything thing they do wrong they would never have a life. As far as the ipod incident. He was told your not playing that during the concert. He asked to have it at least for the car ride but was to leave it in the car once we got there. He snuck it into the building in his pants. Once I noticed he had it in the building i confiscated it and thats when the begging began. It was so embarrassing when my husband lost his cool. There are times I pull my DS12's hair to get his attention when he is in a rage or just being out of control nasty. How will I explain that to a therapist? DS12 will tell the therapist I pull his hair and next thing you know DSS will be at my door. We are not abusive parents but sometimes you need to react to get them to listen, even then it doesn't work! Good ole fashioned spankings did the trick for us. When I would talk back to my Mother I would get a back hand right across the mouth. Worked for my mouth, but society doesn't allow for that today. Parenting is so difficult and the hardest job around!

Oh my goodness, you need to get a handle on your own behavior before you can address your children's behavior. Parenting is a difficult job, and there are times when a parent will overreact, but Holy Cow! Hair pulling? Rages?

The bottom line is that you are responsible for molding responsible adults, and if you think that you need to react, even if the reaction is violent, I am afraid for all of you. A therapist is not going to judge you if you come in for help to learn how to control your actions, but you will definitely be opening yourself up to long term problems if your son decides that he is angry and tells a teacher at school that you have been abusive. And this is abusive, IMO.

 

[Nancyg56]

So they have no life....

This is not about the kids having no life. If a parent sets consequences for these behaviors, odds are that the parents will have no life for a while either. I remember that with my own children. I knew that there would be times when the punishment was going to make life miserable for me as well as for them, but I knew that I needed to follow through or they would always wonder if I was threatening or promising. I had seen enough of my family and friends threatening to punish but then backing down. Then ask me why my kids did not whine or ask fr things when we were out, etc. I had set the expectation of behavior and was very clear what the consequence was if they defied me. And I followed through. It did not take long for them to know that I said what I meant and meant what I said.

 

[Turn the Page]

This is what they are learning.

Beg once, get what I want, no.
Beg 100 times to get what I want, no.

I have to beg 1,000 times and THEN I get what I want, so if I just keep doing it, I will get it, so I will keep doing it. She always caves, but it is a song and dance I must go through until I get what I want.

You and your DH have got to sit down and write out clear consequences and lovingly carry them out with your kids. Then you need to sit down with your children and clearly explain the rules and consequences, and then you HAVE TO FOLLOW THROUGH!

They won't like it, they will possibly try to beg 1,000 more times, but every time you give in, they win. EVERY TIME.

You can respond calmly, "I love you and you are not getting your ipod back." Say it 1,001 times!~

But you won't have to the next time, or the next time......because they will have gotten the message by then.

Exactly. I recently had a very similar conversation with a friend of mine. Her DS6 is a holy terror, mouths off all the time, doesn't listen, etc. I was over there one day and they did their standard song and dance, he says and does whatever he wants, she threatens him about 10 times with going to his room and he ignores her. When she finally tries to make him actually follow through with the punishment he will start throwing himself against walls and screaming bloody murder until she backs off. She did get him in his room one night, at about 9 o'clock on a school night, but let him stay up and play with his toys and watch tv. She asked me if I thought she was being mean by making him stay in his room for the night. Ummmm.....no.

I told her pretty much what everyone here has been saying. The kid is playing her like a fiddle, he knows he doesn't have to listen to her because all he has to do is scream louder and longer than her and she backs down and he wins.

You have to choose consequences for actions and follow through with them every. single. time. If they are doing something they aren't supposed to be doing give them one warning, maybe two, but at the age your kids are if it's something they know they shouldn't be doing already then no warning at all, and mete out whatever punishment you threatened. Do not back down, and do not let them out of it.

 

[Laura66]

This is not about the kids having no life. If a parent sets consequences for these behaviors, odds are that the parents will have no life for a while either. I remember that with my own children. I knew that there would be times when the punishment was going to make life miserable for me as well as for them, but I knew that I needed to follow through or they would always wonder if I was threatening or promising. I had seen enough of my family and friends threatening to punish but then backing down. Then ask me why my kids did not whine or ask fr things when we were out, etc. I had set the expectation of behavior and was very clear what the consequence was if they defied me. And I followed through. It did not take long for them to know that I said what I meant and meant what I said.

This! I remember when my kids didn't listen and I had to follow thru with whatever consequence I issued! I thought - Oh great! Now I'm screwed too! LoL. It ain't alway easy or pleasant to put your money where your mouth is. But if want them to know you mean what you say and have any respect for you that's what you have to do! Why would they listen if they know you don't follow thru??

 

[Laura66]

This is what they are learning.

Beg once, get what I want, no.
Beg 100 times to get what I want, no.

I have to beg 1,000 times and THEN I get what I want, so if I just keep doing it, I will get it, so I will keep doing it. She always caves, but it is a song and dance I must go through until I get what I want.

You and your DH have got to sit down and write out clear consequences and lovingly carry them out with your kids. Then you need to sit down with your children and clearly explain the rules and consequences, and then you HAVE TO FOLLOW THROUGH!

They won't like it, they will possibly try to beg 1,000 more times, but every time you give in, they win. EVERY TIME.

You can respond calmly, "I love you and you are not getting your ipod back." Say it 1,001 times!~

But you won't have to the next time, or the next time......because they will have gotten the message by then.

Great advise!
The only thing I would do differently here is not respond back after 2 or 3 times. They know what you said - they're just trying to wear you down! I just look at them and smile!
(And go outside to scream or call my Girlfriend for support cause I wanna explode lol)

 

[ChitownFamily]

Good advice from so many people.
I also support the therapist route. Throwing out 2 resources- both have facebook pages- you can glean immediate tips from.
http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-Kids-Healthy-Choices-Children/dp/0310243157

http://celebratecalm.com/
Their 3 minute YouTube video was eye opening for me: http://youtu.be/z3aPcZoX2GY

 

[mickeyboat]

I don't have advice for you, OP, just hugs. 12 is such a hard age (Mine are 12 & 13). We go through some similar struggles. My kids are absolutely wonderful when it is one on one, but when they are together, things can get rough.

I will say that I think things go better for us when DH and I remain as calm as possible. We had an incident last night that started with disrecpectful behavior and taking away electronics, and ended with the kids taking a two mile run and behaving much better when they got back. DH and I were calm the entire time, and things did not escalate.

Good luck, OP!

 

[Wishing on a star]

My son is middle school age, and while our issues are not as bad, I would have to say that, like another poster mentioned... I think some level of these issues can almost be expected at this age.

However, without flaming... Parenting IS the toughest, hardest, most thankless job EVER....

OP: There really do need to be changes.
They are NOT going to start with your kids.
As HARD is it might be. Most everyone here is right.
You need to get a handle on it by getting a handle on your emotional reactions. (Now, I am admitting that there have been times where my son has been able to get to me... I know it happens) But, you have just got to step back, and take some very, very, strong, yet UN-emotional control. Beforehand... Before those kids even get out of bed in the mornings...

Without realizing it... by you and your DH giving the boys that tiny fraction of an inch, They ARE TAKING A MILE!!!!

And, you are continuing to enable this.

Take a step back...
Take three deep breaths...
Set those boundaries.. Proactively... Beforehand...

For example, you clearly know what was going to happen with the ipod.... It should never have been in your son's possession. There should not have been anger, yelling, ear or hair pulling... The Ipod should have been confiscated, seriously, calmly, quietly.... for for a lengthy amount of time... And, this should have been done a long time ago. Boundary set... Problem solved....

Like the other poster said...
Maybe those boys need to be 'without a life' for a while.

Any similar issues with my son have been made worse due to the fact that 'I' am the one and the only real parent and disciplinarian. My DH is more along the lines of you and your DH... Not really parenting... Not providing any discipline... Not establishing boundaries... He is just not naturally the effective, proactive, parent. But, when DS then does something that he didn't like, he would then show anger.

I do not really know why he has been unable to step up, say no, and be a stronger parent. Maybe because he remembers how, at that age, he probably did not like, or did not have, that kind of parenting????

Anyhow, NOT GOOD

This is something that, finally, we have been working on.
I have been trying to discuss this with my husband for a long time now.
I told him, "How is this lack of discipline, boundaries, and control going to be working for you when DS is 16... out there... driver's license in hand???"

You and your husband need to get together...
Really discuss the whole situation.
Be UNemotional about the whole thing...
Discuss better parenting techniques and strategies. Like have been recommended here... and be a united front!!!!!

If you still can't seem to make any headway, then yes, some counseling might be what it takes.

Again, parenting is HARD!!!
Hope things improve!!!

 

[lukenick1]

I like the consequences some of you have issued but how did you get your kids to do it? If I told my boys they had to run a mile for their misbehavior they would look at me and laugh. They are controlling me and the only bit of control I think I have is to get their attention physically (pulling his hair). My 12 year old is getting physical with me now. He will grab my arms if I try to escort him to his room. I am becoming afraid of him. He is a GREAT kid outside of the home. Maximum honor student, musician, athlete, never gotten a call from school about him etc. At home he is a miserable, disrespectful, hateful child. Makes me sad. I know for sure I am a HUGE part of the problem. I actually think I may suffer from PMDD so I am planning on going to my doctor for a diagnosis and maybe some medication. When I am in my irritable stage everything they do i pick a battle with. I am also going to seek counseling at this point. Please....our house by no means is an abusive home, we just need some redirecting. My boys are very fortunate, but unfortunately do not realize it. If some of you think pulling his hair is abuse how do you feel about spanking? Some kids get spanked with a belt or a wooden spoon. Those things leave marks! I agree physical punishment is not effective in most cases but when its your last resort I have had to use it. I don't want this to get any worse, I am reaching out for advice so I can make things better. Thank you for those who have not judged me and actually feel for me. I am wanting to have a better relationship with my kids and have been open and honest about it. No skeletons in my closet. I am just super overwhelmed and cannot deal.........

 

[mickeyboat]

To clarify - we did not punish DD by making her run. She asked if she went for a run could she have her electronics back. I told her that I thought it was a good idea and I bet her attitude would be better when she returned, and if it was, she could have her electronics back.

I think that because we remained calm, she knew that she was the one who was out of control, and she came up with a way (exercise) to help bring her emotions under control.

But believe me, I understand feeling overwhelmed with it all, because I have been there.

Have you had a chance to spend some one on one time with each of your kids? I find that really helps me put things into perspective, and remember what great kids they are most of the time.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I like the consequences some of you have issued but how did you get your kids to do it? If I told my boys they had to run a mile for their misbehavior they would look at me and laugh. They are controlling me and the only bit of control I think I have is to get their attention physically (pulling his hair). My 12 year old is getting physical with me now. He will grab my arms if I try to escort him to his room. I am becoming afraid of him. He is a GREAT kid outside of the home. Maximum honor student, musician, athlete, never gotten a call from school about him etc. At home he is a miserable, disrespectful, hateful child. Makes me sad. I know for sure I am a HUGE part of the problem. I actually think I may suffer from PMDD so I am planning on going to my doctor for a diagnosis and maybe some medication. When I am in my irritable stage everything they do i pick a battle with. I am also going to seek counseling at this point. Please....our house by no means is an abusive home, we just need some redirecting. My boys are very fortunate, but unfortunately do not realize it. If some of you think pulling his hair is abuse how do you feel about spanking? Some kids get spanked with a belt or a wooden spoon. Those things leave marks! I agree physical punishment is not effective in most cases but when its your last resort I have had to use it. I don't want this to get any worse, I am reaching out for advice so I can make things better. Thank you for those who have not judged me and actually feel for me. I am wanting to have a better relationship with my kids and have been open and honest about it. No skeletons in my closet. I am just super overwhelmed and cannot deal.........

I absolutely think it's wrong to pull your child's hair or twist his ear and yes, I do think it's abusive (though not as abusive as beating him or something). Spanking, I don't like, but I know it's not considered abuse.

Every time you say more, I feel even stronger that you need family counseling. Really, don't be afraid of it. It's very helpful.

I think the absolute first thing you should do, is tell your boys you're going to do something fun together tomorrow. Try to be completely positive the whole day. See how they respond.