Pandemic?

[DawnCt1]

I don't think this could ever approach the levels of 1918. First, we now have antibiotics thanks to Mr. Fleming in 1928. We also have Pneumonia vaccines, and it is my understanding that secondary infections caused many of the losses back then. We now have many many effective anti-virals thanks to HIV research. Add those factors to improved sanitary conditions, better public health laws and advances in testing etc. the majority of people in the developed world that get sick are going to recover well. Those most likely in danger are probably the same people who are extremely vulnerable every day of the year.

As for the disproportionate losses of relatively young and healthy adults in 1918... doesn't it seem to be reasonable that this would be because #1, this was the demographic of most of the people literally out in the fields and psychically unprotected during the war and #2, because this group makes up a vast majority of the population. I mean HIV isn't more lethal to people of one orientation than another yet the losses are disproportionately slanted that way, but the infection rates have more to do with likelihood of contraction than with the hosts ability to fight disease.

All good points. Additionally, this virus seems sensitive to the antiviral agents, Tamiflu and Relenza. There may be segments of this virus that we have "genetically" seen before, which may explain why it isn't as severe here as it has been in Mexico. Of course, 20 cases is hardly any data with regard to how severe it could end up being.

 

[xPrincessSmilesx]

As for the disproportionate losses of relatively young and healthy adults in 1918... doesn't it seem to be reasonable that this would be because #1, this was the demographic of most of the people literally out in the fields and psychically unprotected during the war and #2, because this group makes up a vast majority of the population. I mean HIV isn't more lethal to people of one orientation than another yet the losses are disproportionately slanted that way, but the infection rates have more to do with likelihood of contraction than with the hosts ability to fight disease.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the reason there were so many losses in the 25-40 age group was due to the way the virus worked. It causes the immune system to over react, and cause respiratory problems leading to death.
Hence being the healthiest people, with the best immune systems actually works against them in these situations

 

[Kit'smommy]

Actually, from what I am reading online, the young adult age group is more at risk because their better immune system. The immune system actually goes into overdrive due to the virus and shuts body systems down.

Several members of my family died during the 1918 pandemic. They were all healthy corn fed mid-westerners in their late teens or early twenties with access to what was at the time good health care. They weren't soldiers who were already worn down due to stress, poor nutrition and exposure to chemical warfare.

The access to antivirals such as Tamiflu will, I think, make a huge difference in how deadly a pandemic will be, but this is very scary.

 

[TheZue]

So is anyone else planning on decluttering their house so it's easier to disinfect everything if this gets to be an issue? I've been trying to get some stuff away that doesn't really need to be out today so I can wipe everything down easier. Even if it isn't as deadly as they are making it out to be, I don't want the flu again this year.

Also wouldn't a shorter incubation period be better for spread? So people aren't walking around for a week spreading it before they know?

 

[Cindyluwho]

Also wouldn't a shorter incubation period be better for spread? So people aren't walking around for a week spreading it before they know?

hmmmm That's actually a very good point. Something to definately take into consideration.

 

[branv]

Okay, this is really embarrassing, so much so that I almost posted under an alias. But I honest to goodness don't know if this sounds...well...suspicious. It's after the fact, so maybe it doesn't matter any way, but I don't know if it's something I should still report.

I live just south of Austin, TX.

Around mid March I was sitting here fine one evening, then suddenly started feeling sick to my stomach. That whole night I was up vomiting/diarrhea. Eh..didn't seem any different from the stomach viruses I've had plenty of times, so didn't think much about it.

But the next day, while my stomach felt better, I was spiking a fever of about 102 w/ chills. For me, this is weird. I've never EVER had a fever during a stomach virus and the only time I have had a fever in the last 10 years was when I had the flu about 5 years ago. Then everything started to ache horribly. And not that ache from throwing up, but my shoulders, joints, everything. I felt like my head was going to pop off my shoulders, and I could barely walk...when I did I couldn't stand up straight.

The next few days I felt better stomach wise, but I still had diarrhea, and for the next 3 days I had a fever. I was also pretty tired most of the time and my chest began to ache w/ a hard, dry, unproductive cough (which I just assumed was from possibly aspirating vomit...sorry, gross, I know). I still wasn't thinking flu, b/c not once in my entire life have I ever vomited with a respiratory illness/virus. The cough and chest pain got worse, and I finally saw a physician's asst. who kind of looked befuddled, said they'd been seeing alot of weird combinations of illnesses lately. An inhaled steroid and codeine cough meds didn't help cough at all, which eventually became wet and migrated up to my head. This whole process lingered a good 3 weeks, eventually ending in a sinus infection and double ear infections according to the actual doctor who I finally saw on the tail end of things when my darn ears wouldn't unclog.

About a week after day 1 of my stuff, DH also caught a version of this, with the aches, fever, cough, etc, but he never had stomach/diarrhea issues. I stay at home, so luckily didn't seem to pass it to anyone else. His also lingered about 3 weeks, but not the way mine kept kicking my rear.

So what do you think? I pretty much figured I had a flu, and stupid me didn't have a shot this year (though DH did...maybe why his was milder?) I completely didn't think about anything until I started reading that this Swine flu is mostly like the regular flu, but seems to include stomach/diarrhea more. And this is the first time that's ever happened to me w/ the flu. The whole time I just kept thinking to myself how different and weird this seemed from virus'/flus I've had in the past.

But I really, REALLY don't want to seem like a paranoid hypochondriac weirdo. Especially b/c I know it might be the tendency for people living in my region to be in a tizzy. For instance, I made the mistake of telling my mom about how our nearby outlet mall is packed most days with tourists from Mexico which has really kept it going in this economy. She went a little wackaloon telling me to be CAREFUL ABOUT THE SWINE FLU!! (uhhhh...little does she know I was there TWICE the week I got sick Boy would that get her going. So..you know..I don't want to be like that. But I can't help wondering.

Thoughts? Chastising remarks?

 

[Simba's Mom]

I've been following the information about it, and I'm totally freaking out. DH works about 2 miles from the Mexican border, and some people in his plant live in Mexico and cross daily. I used to work about 1 mile from the border during tax season, and I'm so glad I don't now. I'll tell ya-if anyone sneezes or coughs near me in public, I'm going to be so scared! Lots of people around me in public have come across from Mexico for the day to go shopping.

 

[WDWBarb]

Okay, this is really embarrassing, so much so that I almost posted under an alias. But I honest to goodness don't know if this sounds...well...suspicious. It's after the fact, so maybe it doesn't matter any way, but I don't know if it's something I should still report.

I live just south of Austin, TX.

Around mid March I was sitting here fine one evening, then suddenly started feeling sick to my stomach. That whole night I was up vomiting/diarrhea. Eh..didn't seem any different from the stomach viruses I've had plenty of times, so didn't think much about it.

But the next day, while my stomach felt better, I was spiking a fever of about 102 w/ chills. For me, this is weird. I've never EVER had a fever during a stomach virus and the only time I have had a fever in the last 10 years was when I had the flu about 5 years ago. Then everything started to ache horribly. And not that ache from throwing up, but my shoulders, joints, everything. I felt like my head was going to pop off my shoulders, and I could barely walk...when I did I couldn't stand up straight.

The next few days I felt better stomach wise, but I still had diarrhea, and for the next 3 days I had a fever. I was also pretty tired most of the time and my chest began to ache w/ a hard, dry, unproductive cough (which I just assumed was from possibly aspirating vomit...sorry, gross, I know). I still wasn't thinking flu, b/c not once in my entire life have I ever vomited with a respiratory illness/virus. The cough and chest pain got worse, and I finally saw a physician's asst. who kind of looked befuddled, said they'd been seeing alot of weird combinations of illnesses lately. An inhaled steroid and codeine cough meds didn't help cough at all, which eventually became wet and migrated up to my head. This whole process lingered a good 3 weeks, eventually ending in a sinus infection and double ear infections according to the actual doctor who I finally saw on the tail end of things when my darn ears wouldn't unclog.

About a week after day 1 of my stuff, DH also caught a version of this, with the aches, fever, cough, etc, but he never had stomach/diarrhea issues. I stay at home, so luckily didn't seem to pass it to anyone else. His also lingered about 3 weeks, but not the way mine kept kicking my rear.

So what do you think? I pretty much figured I had a flu, and stupid me didn't have a shot this year (though DH did...maybe why his was milder?) I completely didn't think about anything until I started reading that this Swine flu is mostly like the regular flu, but seems to include stomach/diarrhea more. And this is the first time that's ever happened to me w/ the flu. The whole time I just kept thinking to myself how different and weird this seemed from virus'/flus I've had in the past.

But I really, REALLY don't want to seem like a paranoid hypochondriac weirdo. Especially b/c I know it might be the tendency for people living in my region to be in a tizzy. For instance, I made the mistake of telling my mom about how our nearby outlet mall is packed most days with tourists from Mexico which has really kept it going in this economy. She went a little wackaloon telling me to be CAREFUL ABOUT THE SWINE FLU!! (uhhhh...little does she know I was there TWICE the week I got sick Boy would that get her going. So..you know..I don't want to be like that. But I can't help wondering.

Thoughts? Chastising remarks?

Maybe that is what you had? I remember someone here where I am telling me that they had the flu only "their flu" included vomiting and diarrhea. I shook my head because my DD's doctor had just told me that the flu NEVER included such symptoms.

But maybe it's been around awhile and just not yet discovered?

 

[Cindyluwho]

Okay, this is really embarrassing, so much so that I almost posted under an alias. But I honest to goodness don't know if this sounds...well...suspicious. It's after the fact, so maybe it doesn't matter any way, but I don't know if it's something I should still report.

I live just south of Austin, TX.

Around mid March I was sitting here fine one evening, then suddenly started feeling sick to my stomach. That whole night I was up vomiting/diarrhea. Eh..didn't seem any different from the stomach viruses I've had plenty of times, so didn't think much about it.

But the next day, while my stomach felt better, I was spiking a fever of about 102 w/ chills. For me, this is weird. I've never EVER had a fever during a stomach virus and the only time I have had a fever in the last 10 years was when I had the flu about 5 years ago. Then everything started to ache horribly. And not that ache from throwing up, but my shoulders, joints, everything. I felt like my head was going to pop off my shoulders, and I could barely walk...when I did I couldn't stand up straight.

The next few days I felt better stomach wise, but I still had diarrhea, and for the next 3 days I had a fever. I was also pretty tired most of the time and my chest began to ache w/ a hard, dry, unproductive cough (which I just assumed was from possibly aspirating vomit...sorry, gross, I know). I still wasn't thinking flu, b/c not once in my entire life have I ever vomited with a respiratory illness/virus. The cough and chest pain got worse, and I finally saw a physician's asst. who kind of looked befuddled, said they'd been seeing alot of weird combinations of illnesses lately. An inhaled steroid and codeine cough meds didn't help cough at all, which eventually became wet and migrated up to my head. This whole process lingered a good 3 weeks, eventually ending in a sinus infection and double ear infections according to the actual doctor who I finally saw on the tail end of things when my darn ears wouldn't unclog.

About a week after day 1 of my stuff, DH also caught a version of this, with the aches, fever, cough, etc, but he never had stomach/diarrhea issues. I stay at home, so luckily didn't seem to pass it to anyone else. His also lingered about 3 weeks, but not the way mine kept kicking my rear.

So what do you think? I pretty much figured I had a flu, and stupid me didn't have a shot this year (though DH did...maybe why his was milder?) I completely didn't think about anything until I started reading that this Swine flu is mostly like the regular flu, but seems to include stomach/diarrhea more. And this is the first time that's ever happened to me w/ the flu. The whole time I just kept thinking to myself how different and weird this seemed from virus'/flus I've had in the past.

But I really, REALLY don't want to seem like a paranoid hypochondriac weirdo. Especially b/c I know it might be the tendency for people living in my region to be in a tizzy. For instance, I made the mistake of telling my mom about how our nearby outlet mall is packed most days with tourists from Mexico which has really kept it going in this economy. She went a little wackaloon telling me to be CAREFUL ABOUT THE SWINE FLU!! (uhhhh...little does she know I was there TWICE the week I got sick Boy would that get her going. So..you know..I don't want to be like that. But I can't help wondering.

Thoughts? Chastising remarks?

One of my co-workers had the same flu, as well as a few others in my office, but hers was the worst case. I think it was a really bad flu season, in addition to this "new and improved" swine flu. I know that here in King County they were testing flu cases so I assume it wasn't this newbie that we're seeing now.

 

[TheZue]

Maybe that is what you had? I remember someone here where I am telling me that they had the flu only "their flu" included vomiting and diarrhea. I shook my head because my DD's doctor had just told me that the flu NEVER included such symptoms.

But maybe it's been around awhile and just not yet discovered?

I think they say that because people mix it up with Noro viruses and assumed if they were vomiting they had the flu. If it's all diahrea and vomiting I'd say it's a noro virus. If it's like a cold from hell with muscle aches along, fever, and intestinal issues I'd say it's the flu.


To the person who just got over the flu, that sounds exactly like the one we had in February...not much fun. I think it was just the flu this year, it ended up being resistant to the vaccine so it made the rounds a little more. I think this swine flu JUST emerged, but I could be wrong.

 

[AustinTink]

Okay, this is really embarrassing, so much so that I almost posted under an alias. But I honest to goodness don't know if this sounds...well...suspicious. It's after the fact, so maybe it doesn't matter any way, but I don't know if it's something I should still report.

I live just south of Austin, TX.

Around mid March I was sitting here fine one evening, then suddenly started feeling sick to my stomach. That whole night I was up vomiting/diarrhea. Eh..didn't seem any different from the stomach viruses I've had plenty of times, so didn't think much about it.

But the next day, while my stomach felt better, I was spiking a fever of about 102 w/ chills. For me, this is weird. I've never EVER had a fever during a stomach virus and the only time I have had a fever in the last 10 years was when I had the flu about 5 years ago. Then everything started to ache horribly. And not that ache from throwing up, but my shoulders, joints, everything. I felt like my head was going to pop off my shoulders, and I could barely walk...when I did I couldn't stand up straight.

The next few days I felt better stomach wise, but I still had diarrhea, and for the next 3 days I had a fever. I was also pretty tired most of the time and my chest began to ache w/ a hard, dry, unproductive cough (which I just assumed was from possibly aspirating vomit...sorry, gross, I know). I still wasn't thinking flu, b/c not once in my entire life have I ever vomited with a respiratory illness/virus. The cough and chest pain got worse, and I finally saw a physician's asst. who kind of looked befuddled, said they'd been seeing alot of weird combinations of illnesses lately. An inhaled steroid and codeine cough meds didn't help cough at all, which eventually became wet and migrated up to my head. This whole process lingered a good 3 weeks, eventually ending in a sinus infection and double ear infections according to the actual doctor who I finally saw on the tail end of things when my darn ears wouldn't unclog.

About a week after day 1 of my stuff, DH also caught a version of this, with the aches, fever, cough, etc, but he never had stomach/diarrhea issues. I stay at home, so luckily didn't seem to pass it to anyone else. His also lingered about 3 weeks, but not the way mine kept kicking my rear.

So what do you think? I pretty much figured I had a flu, and stupid me didn't have a shot this year (though DH did...maybe why his was milder?) I completely didn't think about anything until I started reading that this Swine flu is mostly like the regular flu, but seems to include stomach/diarrhea more. And this is the first time that's ever happened to me w/ the flu. The whole time I just kept thinking to myself how different and weird this seemed from virus'/flus I've had in the past.

But I really, REALLY don't want to seem like a paranoid hypochondriac weirdo. Especially b/c I know it might be the tendency for people living in my region to be in a tizzy. For instance, I made the mistake of telling my mom about how our nearby outlet mall is packed most days with tourists from Mexico which has really kept it going in this economy. She went a little wackaloon telling me to be CAREFUL ABOUT THE SWINE FLU!! (uhhhh...little does she know I was there TWICE the week I got sick Boy would that get her going. So..you know..I don't want to be like that. But I can't help wondering.

Thoughts? Chastising remarks?

I'm in North Austin, and that same flu almost wiped out my son's school Mid-march. My son was out for a week along with many of his classmates. DH, DS and I all got it. We all tested positive for flu type B.

I'm guessing you are in San Marcos because of the outlet mall reference. My nephew goes to Texas State in San Marcos and also got the same flu, it was spreading through the college.

I'm betting you had what we had. It was the worst I had ever felt with the flu. But, I'm thinking this new one is far worse.

 

[AustinTink]

I've been following the information about it, and I'm totally freaking out. DH works about 2 miles from the Mexican border, and some people in his plant live in Mexico and cross daily. I used to work about 1 mile from the border during tax season, and I'm so glad I don't now. I'll tell ya-if anyone sneezes or coughs near me in public, I'm going to be so scared! Lots of people around me in public have come across from Mexico for the day to go shopping.

I feel your pain. My mom is in Brownsville, also 2 miles from the border. She's 78 and lives next door to my grandpa who is 97. Their housekeeper goes to and from Mexico all the time. This is the lady who cooks for them! My sister lives in Mexico on the coast, thankfully not near Mexico City. But still, I'm worried about all of them!

 

[Planogirl]

I've been following the information about it, and I'm totally freaking out. DH works about 2 miles from the Mexican border, and some people in his plant live in Mexico and cross daily. I used to work about 1 mile from the border during tax season, and I'm so glad I don't now. I'll tell ya-if anyone sneezes or coughs near me in public, I'm going to be so scared! Lots of people around me in public have come across from Mexico for the day to go shopping.

This is allergy season so people will be sneezing and coughing. I know that I am as normal.

It'll be interesting to see what is said about this tomorrow. I am about to head out and do a little grocery shopping (nothing major). I wonder if a lot of people are doing the same and if some are starting to panic?

 

[LuvOrlando]

-

 

[AnnaS]

Thank you Dawn and your dh for all the helpful info.

Goofster glad to hear you and your family is fine.

Of course we are also concerned about this - even more so since we are going in July. We almost cancelled recently due to the violence there and now this.

Regardless, I hope this is under control soon and does not go any further/level. It does not take long for me to panic : Keeping my ears open to the Queens cases now too.

 

[Feralpeg]

Thank you Dawn and your dh for all the helpful info.

Goofster glad to hear you and your family is fine.

Of course we are also concerned about this - even more so since we are going in July. We almost cancelled recently due to the violence there and now this.

Regardless, I hope this is under control soon and does not go any further/level. It does not take long for me to panic : Keeping my ears open to the Queens cases now too.

Violence?

 

[minnie56]

Jeeeeeeeeez I am off to NYC next week...should I go?

 

[branv]

Thanks everyone! Does it sound weird to say, "Whew! I just had the regular flu"? Goodness, I had no idea about this season! I should have known to ask the parent's with school-age kids (or first year teachers), since they're like the world's best measuring stick for what's going around.

Personally, I keep wondering how much paranoia this is going to cause now that seasonal allergies are really bad. I can imagine doc offices are going to get a lot of panicked calls from people who thinks their headache/cough/congestion is the start of a flu when really it's just major hay fever. I would hate to be the one taking calls at any doc's office right now.

A few years back I read "The Great Influenza" about the 1918 pandemic, and it was a fascinating read especially from a historical view (political implications, loss of civil liberties, etc...not just on the medical front). But I wouldn't recommend reading it now, b/c it was pretty scary stuff. It also stated the theory that others mentioned, that the reason so many of the age group that normally survivies the flu died was that their bodies reacted TOO strongly in fighting the flu and it tore their lungs up. Awful.

 

[AustinTink]

Violence?

I think the poster is referring to the drug wars that are going on right now. Seems to be escalating and spilling over into the border towns here in Texas.

 

[crazyme5kids]

They have a few different theories as to why it's worse here in Mexico City (unfortunately at this point, though, that's all they are, just theories).
One possibility is that there is another virus that is also being spread along with the swine flu virus that is causing the more severe reaction, and that this virus is more a local virus that isn't traveling with those who leave Mexico.

They say it could be because of a lack of nutrition in the diet. Mexico City has millions of people who don't get the proper amount of nutrition (let alone much food), and that could cause a lowering of the bodies defenses.

It is also possible that because the air here in the city is so contaminated (it's the most polluted city in all the world) that if this is an air borne virus that the contamination could be causing it to become a much stronger virus, and when it affects those who have cleaner air, it's not as strong.

Another possibility is that since the medical treatment here is so bad (It can take up to 4 months to get a doctor's appointment), and since there are so many poor people who never go to the doctor in the first place, that it's possible that there are thousands of more actual cases that have not been diagnosed, and yet the people have survived, and so you don't hear about it. You only hear about the ones who don't survive.

At this point they are still trying to figure out why it does seem so bad here. At least the government is taking this seriously, and have closed down pretty much everything for the next 10 days to try and get this under control.

I was speaking to my friend who is from Mexico and we were discussing the fact that many people won't go to the Dr because they can't pay for it. She said in Mexico you must pay the Dr upfront for their service. There may be some people with health insurance, but I'm not sure.

Mexico City is a very diverse city. It has areas of extreme wealth to extreme poverty (think shany towns, cardboard and whatever can be found to build or patch a place to live.). That's not to say there aren't good Dr.'s there, but by and large the care for the poor certainly isn't like the care would be in this country.