Our fine schools at work....

[Pin Wizard]

Thanks for posting that, Rita!

That is the stupidest thing I've heard of! My son is in a private school, but occasionally I ask him if they have spelling bees in class. I always got a no from him. I used to love them as a kid!! And I still remember that in I think it was 3rd grade, I got the word spaghetti and spelled it right! In North Jersey there was a newspaper that ran an annual spelling bee for all towns in the area. My friend was in it and won 2nd place! They were a ton of fun, and it sure helped you learn your words.

Their reasoning is just ridiculous. Then why are kids even graded in school? Isn't that pegging them at report card time? I guess they should also stop all sports competitions of any kind...cheerleading competitions, football divisions, etc.

 

[cindy_k]

I think it's another example of dumbing down to the lowest common denominator. Ridiculous! and why my son attends private school. It's a financial sacrifice but I don't like what I see in the public schools.

Oh yeah! My son is practicing for the local spell bee three times a week during his lunch break with the 6 other kids that his private school is sending.
Last year he did this as the alternate, this year he's the lead for his grade. I'm proud of him. He's a bit nervous about it.

The other reason I don't like the local public schools ( and I live in a quote/unquote good district on Long Island ) is the total lack of respect that goes on. My son has to respect his teachers and his fellow students at school or he will get in serious trouble. And because this is expected behaviour he follows those rules without trouble. I shudder to think what he would act like if he went to public school 6 hours a day.

Sorry for the extra rant...
Cindy in NY

 

[RitaZ.]

If it makes you feel any better, I just graduated two years ago, and I did NOT skate through school. My public school was so difficult, our regents graduation diploma rate was at 96%.

I agree! There is nothing about "skating through school" these days. The standardized tests have made sure of that, if a student doesn't pass them, they are not promoted to the next grade. Students really have to "show" what they "know".

Not all public schools are bad, I have had enough experience with my children and their schools to recognize that. From what I have seen in my younger kids' school, the students respect their teachers and the classrooms are under control, I'm at their school often enough to see kids "in action". Occasionally, there will be a child with a behavior problem that stands out (usually there are underlying problems), but the majority of the students do conduct themselves in a respectful manner and are expected to do so.

Sandy~ Yes, report cards should be next on their list.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

It's like 7th grade Communism.
I know our local Public school still does the spelling bee because one of my son's friend won the District. Our Private school does a spelling bee for 5th through 8th Grades but I don't think it is the Howard Scripps tournament that gets televised on ESPN.

As far as NCLB, I absolutely despise it. It was fairly quiet --- but this is what the State of Illinois has now done due to NCLB

Announcement
Due to legislative changes in the area of assessment, ISBE is barred from assessing students beyond the subject areas required under the No Child Left Behind Act. This change is effective immediately. Therefore the 2005 State Assessments will NOT include the writing, social science, physical development/health, or fine arts assessments. NCLB currently includes Reading and Mathematics, with Science becoming a required subject area to be assessed in 2008. Science will continue to be tested only at grades 4, 7, and 11 in 2005 and beyond. The results for science are not used in AYP calculations currently, nor will they be in 2008.

There you go. Teacher's are judged on how well their students perform on Standardized tests. You can bet that if the ISBE is barred from testing it, administrators in local Districts will soon be pressuring their teachers not to waste valuable time teaching it. At least in Illinois, writing, social sciences, and Fine Arts do not matter. I am just in awe of where the Nation has taken this NCLB crap.

Just my rant for the day. I am just in awe that the parents in Illinois haven't made a fuss about this and everytime I see the words No Child Left Behind my blood starts to boil again.

 

[marlasmom]

Rita Z - very well said. ITA.

 

[KarenC]

I'm not really sure what NCLB has to do with spelling bees, but I'm not a big fan of spelling bees anyway. My kids have always had their hands full keeping up with their regular schoolwork. They truly do, in their public schools, work harder than I ever did during my 12 years of private education. I don't really see the value in devoting the kind of time it takes to excel in these spelling bees. I'd rather they use that time and energy elsewhere.

In my 25 year career, I've never known anyone to be promoted for being a good speller. And frankly, the kind of focus it takes to master those spelling lists can be a detriment in the workplace. Now, I don't work for a newspaper, and certainly there are many careers where intense focus is a plus. But on the whole, I'm not sure of the benefit to society of trying to form a generation of outstanding spellers.

 

[tar heel]

I really don't think it will matter much in the long run whether kids got to be in the spelling bee or not. I think classroom bees with words that real people use are a good thing b/c they help kids to learn. The big contests, however, are mostly words that are not in that category. I have a couple of kids who've done various academic contests, done well and enjoyed them. DS10 was in the geography bee a couple weeks ago. He made it to the finals (two kids) b/c he was lucky enough to get questions he knew. He lost b/c he was unlucky enough to get a question about Niagara Falls competing against a kid whose mom is from Niagara Falls! It was fun for him and exciting to see him almost win, but I don't think it's particularly important in the long run. Quiz Bowl competition, I think, is more useful b/c it will help him with teamwork skills.

As far as NCLB is concerned, people with bright kids should be VERY CONCERNED about it. There is going to be increasing pressure to focus on the kids that might be left behind, not the bright ones. Every child is being tested and the school held accountable for them -- this includes EC kids and those who don't speak English. My son goes to a very high achieving elementary school. Something like 95% of the students are at or above grade level, but the school is on warning b/c of the passing rate for our ESL students.

I'm sure there are schools where kids don't do much, but my kids have much heavier workloads, learn things much earlier, etc., than I did. They also are expected to respect their teachers and punished appropriately for behavior that demonstrates otherwise. I think sometimes people say that schools are slack so much and hear it said so often that they come to believe it based on absolutely no evidence.

 

[Pete's Mom]

I have heard several people say this, but I really want to know why NCLB is so bad for public education. From what I have read and seen in my children's schools, I don't think that it's as horrible as some say. I just want an honest opinion/explanation.

Same here, RitaZ. I guess because it was a "Bush" idea.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

I don't think anybody thinks that the ability to spell words 99.5% of the population has never heard of is important to most careers.

But, some kids are great in Math, some can play musical instruments, some can throw a 85mph fastball, and some can sink 25 free throws in a row without missing -- and some of them can spell. Most of the schools I've been acquainted with make a pretty big deal out of the Spelling Bee winners. It is an excellent example of having a talent, working hard, and showing success by being better than those around you at the competition.

It makes me sad to see schools trying to promote egos by taking a strategy designed to keep kids from failing, rather than one that promotes egos by encouraging kids to succeed. My kids wouldn't voluntarily study for the Spelling Bee if I offerred them $100. But that doesn't mean it isn't important to the kids that do care about it, and they should have just as much of a chance to showcase their talents as the school basketball team.

JMHO

 

[lmj]

I live in this school district. My kids go to school there and I attended the same schools when I was growing up. Would you believe I just found out about this by reading this link. I don't normally read this paper and I have heard nothing about it and I am relatively involved at the school. I don't think a big fuss was made of it because honestly the spelling bee never really was that big of a deal here.

Lincoln has always had a great reputation for a good school system but lately the administration has just become bogged down by politics. I have mixed feelings about NCLB because I see it from both perspectives. I feel it has hurt the education of my DD who is very smart and has always done very well in school but benefitted my DS who has had some problems with literacy. He was eligible for a wonderful reading program last year in first grade which brought him up to grade level so he is now doing very well in second grade. Without NCLB, that program probably would not have been there and he probably would have stayed back. He is VERY bright in other areas but had trouble learning to read. I think staying back would have really been a blow to his self confidence.

My DD, on the other hand, I feel is being brought down academically. Since she is one of the better students, she finds herself in with a new group of kids every year. She never gets to be in the same class as her good friend who is also very bright because they need to "spread out the smart kids" to be good examples for the kids who are struggling.

I see both sides of the coin and I don't know what the answer is. I do agree though that cancelling a spelling bee certainly is not the answer.

 

[Puffy2]

I have heard several people say this, but I really want to know why NCLB is so bad for public education. From what I have read and seen in my children's schools, I don't think that it's as horrible as some say. I just want an honest opinion/explanation.

No Child Left Behind makes requirements of the state and then does not help the state fund those requirements.

So, if a state was struggeling as it was the new requirements are a burden on their budgets - meaning that often programs (good programs that were working for that individual community) were cut, people were fired, kids needs weren't met while the state tries to jump thorugh new hoops created by NCLB ...hoops that put large amounts of cash into text book publisher's pockets - 'cause those old text books just won't do now - (like Bush's old friends from McGraw Hill) and testing services (like the Educational Testing Administration who , although is supposed to be non profit, just happened to create a FOR profit k - 12 testing program so they could cash in on... you guessed it, NCLB. )

It's all about the money; it's always about the money.

 

[Parkhopper]

I think that cancelling the spelling bee is ridiculous!! Is this school going to cancel all of their sports programs? Will they eliminate gym class? Are graded papers/exams going to be a thing of the past? There are ALWAYS going to be some kids that excell at one thing or another, just as there will always be kids that struggle. To eliminate the spelling bee just to spare the feelings of the children who would not do well is unfair. Perhaps the child that would do well at the spelling bee is not particularly good at sports. I say we should allow kids to be kids. I know of no adults that were "traumatized" by not doing well in a spelling bee.

Just my 2 cents.

Suzi

 

[RitaZ.]

Puffy~ Thank you for answering my question. So, you are saying that the NCLB act has requirements that schools have to meet and once they meet those standards, then they get federal money. Ok, sounds logical to me. Does your employer give you raises/promotions based on what you will or do you have to prove yourself to earn them? I don't see why it should be different for schools, that's where accountability comes in.

Should the schools be given federal money before they have met the standards to possibly lessen the burden of the states having to come up with the money by cutting other social "programs"? Well, if children are our future, unless that's a bunch of "lip service", then it shouldn't be seen as a financial burden, but an investment in their future as well as ours.

Books do have to be updated every so often, they should contain accurate and current information. My husband and I have discussed how we wish that we had had text-books like the ones our kids have. My childrens' schools have NOT cut out any specials, there is still P.E., Music, Art, Drama, after-school clubs, etc. and many still say that FL's schools/education stink.

I agree that it's all about the money, people "move" and make things happen when there is money involved. The NCLB may not be perfect and obviously many disagree with it, but I really believe that it's a step in the right direction. As usual, JMHO.

 

[TimeforMe]

Does your employer give you raises/promotions based on what you will or do you have to prove yourself to earn them? I don't see why it should be different for schools, that's where accountability comes in.

Do you honestly believe this is one and the same? The point of NCLB is to make sure that ALL children learn and achieve the same material in order to pass mandated tests. Obviously, there are many different variables that may make this next to impossible, i.e. home life, learning disabilities, intelligence, etc., etc. If it was necessary to "prove" themselves before they're given funding, they probably wouldn't need NCLB to begin with.

Another negative aspect of what NCLB does is omit opportunities for learning and teaching because so much time is spent "teaching to the test" and making sure that slow learners are not left behind.

Having said all that, I still believe in public education. I do, however, think standardized testing has gotten way out of hand and this makes me sad.

Pete's Mom: why make this about Bush? I actually liked the idea of NCLB when it was first brought up, but after I've seen how it actually affects students (and my kids specifically), it's become just another "good idea" gone bad.

 

[maleficent1959]

Books do have to be updated every so often, they should contain accurate and current information. My husband and I have discussed how we wish that we had had text-books like the ones our kids have. My childrens' schools have NOT cut out any specials, there is still P.E., Music, Art, Drama, after-school clubs, etc. and many still say that FL's schools/education stink.

I'm glad to hear that about your school system. We're also in Florida, and our district recently cut civics because it isn't on the FCAT. They came right out and said they can't afford to focus on subjects the kids aren't tested on. Our gifted program has been reduced to one afternoon a week. All the so-called enrichment courses of art and music are definitely on the endangered list in the schools where they are still available. And instead of focusing on improving reading in the lower grades, our district just added a required reading course in high school as well as three semesters of high school PE to combat obesity in kids.

 

[zagafi]

I have heard several people say this, but I really want to know why NCLB is so bad for public education. From what I have read and seen in my children's schools, I don't think that it's as horrible as some say. I just want an honest opinion/explanation.

Basically, it says by 2014 100% of children will be achieving at the same rate. ALL children. Never mind that 100% is an impossibility and this is an unfunded mandate. Another problem is that schools can be meeting or exceeding their state standards and if even one "subgroup" doesn't meet AYP then the school "fails". So if the special ed population (as an example) doesn't meet the achievement standard, the school fails EVEN IF all other groups have met the standard. Bottom line is it's almost impossible for schools to meet these "standards" as it stands now.

 

[RitaZ.]

Do you honestly believe this is one and the same? The point of NCLB is to make sure that ALL children learn and achieve the same material in order to pass mandated tests. Obviously, there are many different variables that may make this next to impossible, i.e. home life, learning disabilities, intelligence, etc., etc. If it was necessary to "prove" themselves before they're given funding, they probably wouldn't need NCLB to begin with.

I don't believe they are the same thing, it's just an analogy. I don't think that "throwing money" at the problem before they have had a chance to meet the standards is the answer. Schools have become less complacent because they know that they have to "show what they know" before they get federal money. How is that a bad thing? I don't claim to be an expert on the NCLB act, but I understand what it is about and have 3 children in public school that are directly affected by it. I didn't understand what you meant by your last sentence.

Another negative aspect of what NCLB does is omit opportunities for learning and teaching because so much time is spent "teaching to the test" and making sure that slow learners are not left behind.

I don't think that the students are deprived of learning opportunities because so much time is spent on "teaching to the test", another widely held misconception (IMO). I USED to think that way until I became more involved with volunteering in my kids' schools. I think that the schools are now having to "catch-up", thus it appears that the students are only preparing for the test when in reality this is material that they should already know. The "slow learners" are given time in a separate class or free after-school tutoring to target their specific needs, especially in reading, this isn't taking time away from the other students. Our school just started a new program where volunteers are needed to come in for an hour each day (end of the day) to read to and with a student that needs "extra help", I will be there to help out. That's how it's done in our schools, I can't speak for others.

Frankly, I'm really impressed with all the effort and hard work put forth by teachers and schools in general. I don't think think that NCLB is perfect, but I really do think this is a step in the right direction to improve public education.

 

[TimeforMe]

I didn't understand what you meant by your last sentence.

I don't think that the students are deprived of learning opportunities because so much time is spent on "teaching to the test", another widely held misconception (IMO).

Hmmmm. Interesting.
The point of NCLB is to ensure an equal learning experience for all children. To me, that is impossible. I was president of our school's PTA, which afforded me the opportunity of working closely on a regular basis with our school principal as well as being in classrooms constantly and at many "behind the scenes" meetings. I was also on the high school curriculum committe for our district. In addition, I now work at a middle school several towns over from ours. I honestly know of NO teachers who are in favor of NCLB. To a one, they all think it's very unsound, educationally speaking and is meant to pretty much put a band-aid on what the real problems are. I have seen firsthand how much curricula is sacrificed because there is just not enough time in the day to cover all the required materials (for the test) and still teach what teachers and students are most interested in. It lends itself to stifling creativity, independent teaching (and learning) as well as many other things. Both of my kids (who are 2 years apart) have gone without many worthwhile field trips, assemblies and spontaneous learning experiences. This I know firsthand.

I am happy, however, for you that NCLB has proven to be a good experience. For us, sadly, it has not.

 

[RitaZ.]

Basically, it says by 2014 100% of children will be achieving at the same rate. ALL children.

I agree, I don't see how 100% of children will be achieving the standards by 2014. How will children that don't speak English be able to attain that goal, what about ESE students? It's basically an unattainable goal, there will probably be some serious changes/modifications to NCLB down the road.

 

[tar heel]

RitaZ -- Read my post. My son goes to a "failing" school b/c our small number of ESL students didn't meet the goal. This "failing" school has about 95% of the students at or above grade level and more than 15% of the students meeting the AG requirement of test scores above 95th percentile. There are something like 200 parent volunteers and the vast majority of parents are educated and middle to high income. In other words, except for being over capacity b/c we're in a rapidly growing area, it's the kind of school anyone would want for his/her child. The middle school my son will go to next year has even higher overall test scores but also a handful of ESL and EC students.

Do you realize how awful it must be for EC and ESL kids to have to take tests that they have no chance of passing?

You better believe I'm worried about the ultimate effect this will have on the education of my child.

Our superintendent has said in public how much he disagrees with this program and how awful he believes it is to put EC kids through such a thing.