Other people "parenting" my kids...

[C.Ann]

Where in my scenario did I mention that the child couldn't swim or was misbehaving earlier? I simply said the adult singled out your kid and told them they couldn't go in the pool with the other kids. Sounds like an adult just not liking 1 particular kid. So assuming that is the case: Yes I will allow my child to directly challenge the adult.

How would they fight it? Umm go jump in the pool.

I'm having a problem trying to figure out how your particular scenario would play out..

If you have allowed your child to go to the home of someone else (and particularly a home where there is a pool), isn't it your responsibility to know the adults in that home well enough to be aware of how they feel about and/or interact with your child?

The situation you are describing sounds like it would be the actions of an irrational adult.. Would you leave your child at the home of an irrational adult?

DGD (just turned 12) has never been allowed to go to other peoples homes prior to her parents getting to know the adults that reside in the home..

 

[Jambo82]

I'm having a problem trying to figure out how your particular scenario would play out..

If you have allowed your child to go to the home of someone else (and particularly a home where there is a pool), isn't it your responsibility to know the adults in that home well enough to be aware of how they feel about and/or interact with your child?

The situation you are describing sounds like it would be the actions of an irrational adult.. Would you leave your child at the home of an irrational adult?

DGD (just turned 12) has never been allowed to go to other peoples homes prior to her parents getting to know the adults that reside in the home..

I mean I'll know them to some extent but I don't have to be best friends with an adult or CIA profile them before I'm going to let my kids go over to the house. If a group of kids wants to hang out and play date I'm most likely going to be okay with it.

Maybe it was a bad scenario but nonetheless is an example. You can't always just have your kid put their head down and say "yes sir, yes maam."

 

[C.Ann]

You can't always just have your kid put their head down and say "yes sir, yes maam."

I do agree with this - in certain scenarios.. But they would be rare and extreme.. I would not want my child (or my DGD) blinding following the instructions of let's say an adult that says, "Ah.. You don't have to wear a seat belt in my car.." - or a male teacher insisting on meeting her privately somewhere.. Those are rare and extreme.. But in other instances, we have just swung way too far in the opposite direction.. Society just can't function properly when people (and especially kids) take it upon themselves to pick and choose which authority figure they are going to listen to - barring dangerous situations like those I have mentioned.. See what I mean?

 

[allison443]

I'll respectfully disagree. My kids are smart kids and they know when something is wrong and I've taught them to stand up and fight it. Kind of like if a teacher is unfairly picking on a student.. they will stand up for that kid. This happened once before and I told the school not to bother me with this again.. I back my kids 100% unless they're committing a crime.

You back them 100% unless they're committing a crime? What about breaking school rules, or if they do something rude or mean that doesn't rise to the level of a crime? You back them then?
So in other words, whatever your kids do is fine with you (unless of course it's a crime.)

 

[okeydokey]

Where in my scenario did I mention that the child couldn't swim or was misbehaving earlier? I simply said the adult singled out your kid and told them they couldn't go in the pool with the other kids. Sounds like an adult just not liking 1 particular kid. So assuming that is the case: Yes I will allow my child to directly challenge the adult.

How would they fight it? Umm go jump in the pool.

Maybe they don't want your kid in their pool. They have a right to exclude anyone they want from their property. Encouraging your kids to defy other parents rules in their own houses is a very fast way of ensuring your kids are never invited anywhere at all.

 

[Jambo82]

You back them 100% unless they're committing a crime? What about breaking school rules, or if they do something rude or mean that doesn't rise to the level of a crime? You back them then?
So in other words, whatever your kids do is fine with you (unless of course it's a crime.)

If they need to be punished it will happen back at my house not out in public. In public they will get my full support.

 

[2girlsmom]

I guess I am the other extreme, Jambo. I support my children 100%, but I am not going to stand behind them and not correct them if they are doing something wrong, including in public. When my dd has a melt down because she wants money for the stupid claw machines, I take her in the bathroom to discipline her, but if she is doing something dangerous to herself or others, or mean to someone else, I ABSOLUTELY will correct her in front of people. And if I wasn't there or didn't catch her doing it, I would have NO problem with another adult correcting her as well, as long as they don't physically correct her (ie spank, THAT is something ONLY her parents should do in my opinion). Nor do I feel guilty for stopping bad and rude behavior in others. For example, last week we were at the school for a show choir rehearsal, and the teacher sent the kids on 5 minute break. My daughter asked me for quarters to get a drink from the pop machine, and I gave them to her. She put the coins in, but her first choice was sold out, and when she turned around to ask me which options were not sold out, 2 boys came up to the machine, hit the coin return and took her quarters. I stood up and said firmly "EXCUSE ME, THOSE ARE MY DAUGHTERS QUARTERS, GIVE THEM BACK.". They did, problem solved. I was the ONLY adult around, but if their parents had been sitting there and had not stopped the boys, I would have done the same thing, and if the parents had a problem with my doing so, that's their problem. I am not allowing kids to take things from others or torment/bully other kids, regardless of if ANY of the kids are my own.

 

[Jambo82]

I guess I am the other extreme, Jambo. I support my children 100%, but I am not going to stand behind them and not correct them if they are doing something wrong, including in public. When my dd has a melt down because she wants money for the stupid claw machines, I take her in the bathroom to discipline her, but if she is doing something dangerous to herself or others, or mean to someone else, I ABSOLUTELY will correct her in front of people. And if I wasn't there or didn't catch her doing it, I would have NO problem with another adult correcting her as well, as long as they don't physically correct her (ie spank, THAT is something ONLY her parents should do in my opinion). Nor do I feel guilty for stopping bad and rude behavior in others. For example, last week we were at the school for a show choir rehearsal, and the teacher sent the kids on 5 minute break. My daughter asked me for quarters to get a drink from the pop machine, and I gave them to her. She put the coins in, but her first choice was sold out, and when she turned around to ask me which options were not sold out, 2 boys came up to the machine, hit the coin return and took her quarters. I stood up and said firmly "EXCUSE ME, THOSE ARE MY DAUGHTERS QUARTERS, GIVE THEM BACK.". They did, problem solved. I was the ONLY adult around, but if their parents had been sitting there and had not stopped the boys, I would have done the same thing, and if the parents had a problem with my doing so, that's their problem. I am not allowing kids to take things from others or torment/bully other kids, regardless of if ANY of the kids are my own.

Well that's a crime so that fits with what I said. I would have done the same thing in that situation.

 

[Magpie]

Where in my scenario did I mention that the child couldn't swim or was misbehaving earlier? I simply said the adult singled out your kid and told them they couldn't go in the pool with the other kids. Sounds like an adult just not liking 1 particular kid. So assuming that is the case: Yes I will allow my child to directly challenge the adult.

How would they fight it? Umm go jump in the pool.

I have a real problem with this scenario. You're saying that it's all right for your children to make use of other people's property, whenever they think the other person isn't being fair.

I can tell you, if - for whatever reason - I told a child "no, you can't swim in my pool," and that child promptly turned around and jumped into my pool... Well, I would be hauling that child right out of the water and frog marching them right down the street to their own home.

Or, if you'd driven them to my house, then I would be hauling them out of the pool, and sitting them down in the front hall to wait while I call you to come and pick them up.

It's MY pool. YOUR child does not get to use MY property without my permission.

I mean, really, if a child had a favorite doll that belonged to them personally, and your child felt they weren't sharing... do you give your child permission to go and yank the doll out of their hands and play with it?

 

[Jambo82]

I have a real problem with this scenario. You're saying that it's all right for your children to make use of other people's property, whenever they think the other person isn't being fair.

I can tell you, if - for whatever reason - I told a child "no, you can't swim in my pool," and that child promptly turned around and jumped into my pool... Well, I would be hauling that child right out of the water and frog marching them right down the street to their own home.

Or, if you'd driven them to my house, then I would be hauling them out of the pool, and sitting them down in the front hall to wait while I call you to come and pick them up.

It's MY pool. YOUR child does not get to use MY property without my permission.

I mean, really, if a child had a favorite doll that belonged to them personally, and your child felt they weren't sharing... do you give your child permission to go and yank the doll out of their hands and play with it?

1) So you're telling me its acceptable for an adult to have a group of kids over and single 1 out and say they can't use the pool for no reason at all? Yes or No?

2) Also with regards to grabbing my kid. I've told my kids before that if an adult grabs them, other than the parents, they don't have to take that so you can expect some comeback on that.

 

[LiberalPrincess]

1) So you're telling me its acceptable for an adult to have a group of kids over and single 1 out and say they can't use the pool for no reason at all? Yes or No?

I think you are missing the point. Even if the parent doesn't want children with blue eyes swimming in their pool, it is their pool and their choice. Wrong or not. Thinking that a child is standing up for themselves by jumping into someone else's pool is simply wrong, no matter the basis for the decision. If children are raised with such a sense of entitlement and no barrier to them breaking rules they don't find fair, what will happen to them in their first job? If your child does something against the rules at work, does the boss not have a right to make the punishment, or will the boss have to check with you first? The fact is, different parents have different rules, as do different schools, teams and workplaces. And if you think it is "supporting" your children not to teach them that these rules exist and should be followed, I just have to disagree.

 

[Jambo82]

I think you are missing the point. Even if the parent doesn't want children with blue eyes swimming in their pool, it is their pool and their choice. Wrong or not. Thinking that a child is standing up for themselves by jumping into someone else's pool is simply wrong, no matter the basis for the decision. If children are raised with such a sense of entitlement and no barrier to them breaking rules they don't find fair, what will happen to them in their first job? If your child does something against the rules at work, does the boss not have a right to make the punishment, or will the boss have to check with you first? The fact is, different parents have different rules, as do different schools, teams and workplaces. And if you think it is "supporting" your children not to teach them that these rules exist and should be followed, I just have to disagree.

I'm not missing the point but I think some other folks on here are. Frankly it's a little disturbing.

It will teach them to stand up for what is right and wrong. If the at the workplace a boss singles out people for being Muslim that is not acceptable and I hope my kid would stand up for those people.

And I don't really care if it's their pool. They invited my child over to play with their children so I would expect my child to be treated fairly just like the rest of the kids. If they aren't, my kid will do what they need to do. End of story.

 

[C.Ann]

I think you are missing the point. Even if the parent doesn't want children with blue eyes swimming in their pool, it is their pool and their choice. Wrong or not. Thinking that a child is standing up for themselves by jumping into someone else's pool is simply wrong, no matter the basis for the decision. If children are raised with such a sense of entitlement and no barrier to them breaking rules they don't find fair, what will happen to them in their first job? If your child does something against the rules at work, does the boss not have a right to make the punishment, or will the boss have to check with you first? The fact is, different parents have different rules, as do different schools, teams and workplaces. And if you think it is "supporting" your children not to teach them that these rules exist and should be followed, I just have to disagree.

Very well said..

 

[Magpie]

I'm not missing the point but I think some other folks on here are. Frankly it's a little disturbing.

It will teach them to stand up for what is right and wrong. If the at the workplace a boss singles out people for being Muslim that is not acceptable and I hope my kid would stand up for those people.

And I don't really care if it's their pool. They invited my child over to play with their children so I would expect my child to be treated fairly just like the rest of the kids. If they aren't, my kid will do what they need to do. End of story.

Well, on a base level, we don't totally disagree. If an adult is saying to my child wholly unreasonable things (like "all the other kids are skinny dipping, it's totally fine") then I do want my children to say, "No, I'm going home!"

I would never say that kids should blindly obey authority, especially if it's an matter of safety.

However, I do have an issue with the specific scenario you presented, where I am responsible for your child's safety, and your child is insisting on trespassing into my pool.

Here's a real life example: I hear screaming from the back yard and pop my head outside to see my children in a shouting match with the neighbour's girl. Rather than try to figure out who's right or wrong (because every child will insist they're right) I say calmly to the girl, "I'm sorry, you need to go home now." As far as I'm concerned, this play date is over.

This little girl puts her hands on her hips, scowls up at me and says, "YOU can't tell me what to do!"

I looked at her in some shock and said, "This is MY back yard!"

"SO? I can play where I want!"

"This is my back yard," I said again. "And I'm bigger than you. If you don't leave right now, I'm going to take you home myself!"

The kid must have decided I was serious, because she took off running - right back home.

She hasn't challenged me directly again, thank goodness.

 

[Teresa Pitman]

Here's my story.

I had a gathering with a bunch of parents and kids. One of the little boys, who was about 5, took one of my potted plants and dumped it out - dirt and all - on the floor. The mother sat on the couch and saw this happen and did nothing. He laughed, and reached for another plant, and I moved quickly and took the plant away from him. I didn't yell at him or touch him, I just took the plant away.

The mother YELLED at me for doing that. She said I had no right to discipline her child. I didn't consider what I had done to be disciplining him.

Another gathering of parents and kids, same mother, same 5-year-old boy. He comes in my house with a sharpened stick in his hand. Within minutes he is using the stick to jab other children - some of them babies. His mother is in another room. One of the other mothers whose child is being painfully poked takes the stick away from him and puts it up on a high shelf where he can't reach it. He goes to his mother and cries because his stick has been taken. She gets really angry at the mother who took the stick and says that it was her son's toy that he wanted to bring with him, and she had no right to take it away.

I don't invite them over any more.

TP

 

[scottishduffy]

Any Adult has the right to make any rules they want for their own property. If that means they want every kid except for one to be allowed to swim than that is their decision. They probably have their own reason.

I know growing up I had a neighbor who would only let certain kids from the street swim in her pool. The banned kids were usually the more rambunctious kids or those who were not good at listening. So on days that her kids would be swimming, those particular children would not be allowed to play at her home. Her Pool, Her Choice. Of course those kids were highly aware that perhaps 6-7 neighborhood kids were swimming while they were not, but that is a life lesson in natural consequences. Just for saying I was part of the Banned list since I didn't get along 100% with the middle daughter (even though I was great friends with the oldest), and I still agree with it!


As far as public discipline goes... when I was Nanny I was always willing to correct or discipline in public. The line I always gave them was "If you are willing to embarass yourself by acting poorly in public, then surely you must be willing to take the embarassment of a punishment." I only had to do this a couple time with each and never again. I can only remember 4 times (2 for each) I ever had to give public time-outs: At a McD's, at a Blockbuster, At a pool party, and At a Chuck E Cheese party. After that the mere mention of a public time-out got cooperation and I cared for them 4 years. They knew darn well I was just as serious in public as I was at home.