OT - What TV

MarkBarbieri

Semi-retired
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Aug 20, 2006
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I'm looing at replacing the old downstairs TV. I would like something around 50" that handles 1080p well. First priority is getting the best possible picture. 3D would be nice, but not critical. Thinness doesn't matter. Value matters more than price, but I'd prefer to keep it under $4,000 at the max and was hoping to spend around $2,000.

What should I get? Plasma, LCD, LCD-LED? Samsung, Sony, Panasonic, someone else? What sites have good information about TVs. I haven't bought a TV in a very long time, so I know almost nothing about this stuff.

I intend to use it for displaying photos during the day when it is not being used as a TV, so it will see a lot of hours of use. That means I want lower power consumption and long term usability.
 
I'm looing at replacing the old downstairs TV. I would like something around 50" that handles 1080p well. First priority is getting the best possible picture. 3D would be nice, but not critical. Thinness doesn't matter. Value matters more than price, but I'd prefer to keep it under $4,000 at the max and was hoping to spend around $2,000.

What should I get? Plasma, LCD, LCD-LED? Samsung, Sony, Panasonic, someone else? What sites have good information about TVs. I haven't bought a TV in a very long time, so I know almost nothing about this stuff.

I intend to use it for displaying photos during the day when it is not being used as a TV, so it will see a lot of hours of use. That means I want lower power consumption and long term usability.


I would definitely research more and see what others think, but when I was last looking at upgrading tvs I found this one and it seemed to get really great reviews. CNet rated it as one of the top ones, but I would do a little bit more checking into it since your needs are slightly different than what I was going to just be using it for. :thumbsup2
 
After months of research we bought a 1080p Sony last year and love it. We mainly watch blu-ray movies and play a LOT of games. But the buying process was a whole different experience from when we purchased our projection TV ten years earlier.

I went with LCD over plasma because plasma tends to run hotter and they are prone to sound delay issues. The sound delay isn't something that would bother most people, but we play a lot of Rockband and that half second or more delay really comes into play there. So if you're doing anything that requires precise synchronization then keep that in mind.

When I shopped I looked for a fast response time, knowing how important that is for what we would use it for. Mine is 4ms and I've never had any ghosting or motion blur issues with it.

My biggest surprise was how big of a diference the quality of the cables make in the picture quality.

I may loathe Sony cameras but they do make great TV's.
 

Don't leave LG out of the equation - they are also one of the top TV makers right now. We wound up with an LG last year after much research and comparison and love it (and the bluray surround system we got to go with it).

Plasma runs hot and eats electricity like candy.

LED is still early in development and only partially illuminated by LED.

3D is also early and a joke to me - who wants to sit at home directly in front of the TV wearing glasses all the time? Only a handful of people could watch in 3D because of the angles and lack of special glasses. I'm fine with good 3D in theaters, but I don't see 3D TV being more than a fad for practicality purposes if nothing else.
 
For that size I think you'll want to go with LCD. Sony and Samsung make great sets with excellent black levels. However, the Sony are little overpriced. Samsung is very high quality for a solid price. You can't always compare them at the store, because they're usually not calibrated there, so a superior TV may actually appear to be inferior to another TV. Also, you can't compare contrast levels between brands, because they measure it differently. I haven't compared LCD-LED, but I've heard that they help color accuracy. I've always thought that light from LEDs is cool in color temp, but maybe they use more neutral LEDs or at least put a color balancing filter.

So
 
Keep in mind there is a lot of FUD out there about plasma...most of it is exaggerated or simply not true. If anyone claims any one technology is obviously better then compare them with a person that says that one DSLR brand dominates all others. Each technology has its pros and cons. Each technology's list of cons has shrunk since both were introduced.

To give you a run down.

LCD:

Pros-
Very bright(only important in very bright rooms...but impressive none-the-less on the shelves at stores)
Smaller screen sizes availabe
Lighter(weight)
Better for use as a external computer monitor

Cons-
Some motion blur still evident in some models(especially budget models)
Less color accuracy
Less contrast(Ignore dynamic contrast ratios...they're lies)
More Expensive

Plasmas:

Pros-
Very high contrast ratio
Accurate colors
No motion blur
Better for movie watching(movies tend to need high contrast because they have many dark scenes)

Cons-
MAY use higher power
MAY run hotter
Heavier
Only available in larger screens

Now I would like to discuss the issue of power. Power ratings are actually closer than many people would have you think. Even someone in this thread claimed plasmas suck power. This is an exaggeration. In general, they do tend to use a bit more power. However, you have to pay attention to how manufacturer's rate power. LCD's are ALWAYS drawing max power. The lamp is always on and that is what draws most of the power.

Plasmas have a variable power rating. This is because it depends on what the screen is showing. If the screen is dark, it will be pulling minimal power. If its showing a white screen it will pull max power. So the true power rating isn't always what its listed as. That is often the MAX power rating. As we know from photography, scenes are often 18% grey, movies are generally even darker. So I really wouldn't listen to people who claim that one technology obviously has the power advantage.

In similar respects, as plasmas have improved their efficiency, LCDs have improved their contrast ratio. They still don't match those of Plasmas, but they aren't the "dark grey" that was so common years ago. This also applies to image rentention. Do not be fooled, image retention happens on LCDs and Plasmas and CRTs. Plasmas WERE more susceptible to them a decade ago, now, its a virtual wash. You can find reports of LCD users having the issue and you can find plasma owners having the issue.


So...at the heart of the matter...I usually boil it down to a few key questions:

Is the room you are putting the TV in get direct sunlight(on the TV itself) during times when you want to watch TV?

(If yes, +1 point for LCD...if not....draw)

Is the room you are putting the TV in typically fairly dimly lit and/or dark?

(If yes, +1 point for plasma...if not...draw)

Is the room a larger room that would benefit from a larger TV?

(If yes, +1 point for plasma)

Will the TV be used as a computer monitor?

(If yes, +1 point for LCD)

Will the TV be used in a home theater/for movies?

(If yes, +1 point for plasma)

I could ask other questions but I think that sums up the major considerations I would make. If going plasma, Panasonic is pretty much the go-to brand. LCD is Samsung, Sony and occasionally a standout from a different manufacturer.
 
After months of research we bought a 1080p Sony last year and love it. We mainly watch blu-ray movies and play a LOT of games. But the buying process was a whole different experience from when we purchased our projection TV ten years earlier.

I went with LCD over plasma because plasma tends to run hotter and they are prone to sound delay issues. The sound delay isn't something that would bother most people, but we play a lot of Rockband and that half second or more delay really comes into play there. So if you're doing anything that requires precise synchronization then keep that in mind.

When I shopped I looked for a fast response time, knowing how important that is for what we would use it for. Mine is 4ms and I've never had any ghosting or motion blur issues with it.

My biggest surprise was how big of a diference the quality of the cables make in the picture quality.

I may loathe Sony cameras but they do make great TV's.


Rock band games have a calibration setting for this very reason. Especially with a receiver, calibration is necessary no matter what set you have.

And in regards to cables, if you are talking digital cables and the cable wasn't broken there is no way that a higher quality cable produced a noticeable difference.
 
I just went through this process with my daughter. Other than 3D, the three available technologies from oldest to newest: plasma, LCD, (LCD/) LED. As a rule of thumb, like cameras, the latest technology is the costliest. LED's will run cooler and thus use less electricity. The top rated brands tend to be Samsung, LG, followed by Sony. Vizio is an American company which is gaining market share and are normally cheaper. Within each brand they usually have differents levels. I think Samsung has three depending on refresh rates, and Hz. A friend recently purchased a 55" Vizio LED for $1800 at Costco(I think it is now listed for $1,999). He is very happy with it and the picture is excellent. My daughter bought a Samsung 46" LED and it also has a great picture. Plasma and LCD each have their strengths and LED seems to have the best of both the others without the downside. After that, it starts getting into personal choice, just like in cameras and like cameras it can get crazy trying to choose. Just make sure you are comparing apples to apples, etc. Good luck!
 
I just went through this process with my daughter. Other than 3D, the three available technologies from oldest to newest: plasma, LCD, (LCD/) LED. As a rule of thumb, like cameras, the latest technology is the costliest. LED's will run cooler and thus use less electricity. The top rated brands tend to be Samsung, LG, followed by Sony. Vizio is an American company which is gaining market share and are normally cheaper. Within each brand they usually have differents levels. I think Samsung has three depending on refresh rates, and Hz. A friend recently purchased a 55" Vizio LED for $1800 at Costco(I think it is now listed for $1,999). He is very happy with it and the picture is excellent. My daughter bought a Samsung 46" LED and it also has a great picture. Plasma and LCD each have their strengths and LED seems to have the best of both the others without the downside. After that, it starts getting into personal choice, just like in cameras and like cameras it can get crazy trying to choose. Just make sure you are comparing apples to apples, etc. Good luck!

Just to clarify, LCD and plasma are actually very old technologies. They've been around for a VERY long time(1960's). They've just been perfected over time.

Know that the Samsung LED backlit televisions had some reviews that proclaimed the normal lamp backlight actually produced a better picture with less bleeding than the LED version. Both are very good and most people would probably not notice the difference anyway.

Oh and watch out for 240Hz and such TVs. If you see an effect that smooths out motion, that is not the 240Hz part of the TV. That is a frame interpolator feature on many new sets that turns 24 and 30fps signals into 60fps and higher. This smooths motion but looks fake to some. If you don't like it, it can be turned off. This is true for both plasmas and LCDs.
 
After months of research we bought a 1080p Sony last year and love it. We mainly watch blu-ray movies and play a LOT of games. But the buying process was a whole different experience from when we purchased our projection TV ten years earlier.

I went with LCD over plasma because plasma tends to run hotter and they are prone to sound delay issues. The sound delay isn't something that would bother most people, but we play a lot of Rockband and that half second or more delay really comes into play there. So if you're doing anything that requires precise synchronization then keep that in mind.

When I shopped I looked for a fast response time, knowing how important that is for what we would use it for. Mine is 4ms and I've never had any ghosting or motion blur issues with it.

My biggest surprise was how big of a diference the quality of the cables make in the picture quality.

I may loathe Sony cameras but they do make great TV's.

If spending all of this money on a TV, I hope both you and Mark aren't using the TV's audio. With any receiver, you're going to have to perform calibrations.

As for the cables thing...this is definitely not the case. Although Monster and Best Buy would like you to believe so! Buying a $3 cable from Newegg/DealExtreme/whatever store based in China you prefer is exactly the same as buying a $200 high end cable.

Keep in mind there is a lot of FUD out there about plasma...most of it is exaggerated or simply not true. If anyone claims any one technology is obviously better then compare them with a person that says that one DSLR brand dominates all others. Each technology has its pros and cons. Each technology's list of cons has shrunk since both were introduced.

To give you a run down.

LCD:

Pros-
Very bright(only important in very bright rooms...but impressive none-the-less on the shelves at stores)
Smaller screen sizes availabe
Lighter(weight)
Better for use as a external computer monitor

Cons-
Some motion blur still evident in some models(especially budget models)
Less color accuracy
Less contrast(Ignore dynamic contrast ratios...they're lies)
More Expensive

Plasmas:

Pros-
Very high contrast ratio
Accurate colors
No motion blur
Better for movie watching(movies tend to need high contrast because they have many dark scenes)

Cons-
MAY use higher power
MAY run hotter
Heavier
Only available in larger screens

Now I would like to discuss the issue of power. Power ratings are actually closer than many people would have you think. Even someone in this thread claimed plasmas suck power. This is an exaggeration. In general, they do tend to use a bit more power. However, you have to pay attention to how manufacturer's rate power. LCD's are ALWAYS drawing max power. The lamp is always on and that is what draws most of the power.

Plasmas have a variable power rating. This is because it depends on what the screen is showing. If the screen is dark, it will be pulling minimal power. If its showing a white screen it will pull max power. So the true power rating isn't always what its listed as. That is often the MAX power rating. As we know from photography, scenes are often 18% grey, movies are generally even darker. So I really wouldn't listen to people who claim that one technology obviously has the power advantage.

In similar respects, as plasmas have improved their efficiency, LCDs have improved their contrast ratio. They still don't match those of Plasmas, but they aren't the "dark grey" that was so common years ago. This also applies to image rentention. Do not be fooled, image retention happens on LCDs and Plasmas and CRTs. Plasmas WERE more susceptible to them a decade ago, now, its a virtual wash. You can find reports of LCD users having the issue and you can find plasma owners having the issue.


So...at the heart of the matter...I usually boil it down to a few key questions:

Is the room you are putting the TV in get direct sunlight(on the TV itself) during times when you want to watch TV?

(If yes, +1 point for LCD...if not....draw)

Is the room you are putting the TV in typically fairly dimly lit and/or dark?

(If yes, +1 point for plasma...if not...draw)

Is the room a larger room that would benefit from a larger TV?

(If yes, +1 point for plasma)

Will the TV be used as a computer monitor?

(If yes, +1 point for LCD)

Will the TV be used in a home theater/for movies?

(If yes, +1 point for plasma)

I could ask other questions but I think that sums up the major considerations I would make. If going plasma, Panasonic is pretty much the go-to brand. LCD is Samsung, Sony and occasionally a standout from a different manufacturer.

+1 to all of this. Plasma TVs get bashed so much nowadays but the truth is they have several benefits, especially the black/contrast levels (compare the Godfather Blu-ray side-by-side on a plasma and an LCD and this is fairly evident).
 
'The' website to go to is http://www.avsforum.com/

More opinions than you can shake a stick at from people with a seemingly infinite amount of time and money.

Go to 'Forums', 'Display Devices', 'LCD Flat Panel Displays' and 'Plasma Flat Panel Displays'.

I personally do not like Plasma because of the burn-in/aging characteristics that derive from the physics of the technology. They do offer superior dynamic range though because of the truer blacks.
 
Rock band games have a calibration setting for this very reason. Especially with a receiver, calibration is necessary no matter what set you have.

And in regards to cables, if you are talking digital cables and the cable wasn't broken there is no way that a higher quality cable produced a noticeable difference.

I'm not going to address the cable issue beyond that I know what I, and other's I know, have experienced in that regard. If your experiences have been different then that's great.

As far as Rockband... The calibration does not work in all cases. Most often on Plasma TV's. This is a known issue with Rockband games. If you'd like a demonstration you are more than welcome to go play with my husband at his work. Considering they make video games there I think it's safe to say they have taken all the necessary steps to calibrate it as far as the game will let them. And still, there is a delay... though had I not seen it for myself for the last couple years I'd have had the same feeling as you. LCD's do not have the same issues with the delay.

And I didn't mean to threadjack there. Sorry.
 
Thanks for all of the advice. I had initially dismissed plasma as old-school technology and assumed that LED was the best. Now I'm not so sure. I like the lower power consumption of LED, but the cost is so much higher that I don't think I'd ever recoup the difference in electricity savings.

As for Rockband delays, I would consider something that makes games like that less usable to be feature rather than a bug. Gaming in general, however, is fairly important as this TV gets used for the Wii a lot.

I'll go read up on AVSForums. I used them extensively when I built my theater room, but for some reason I hadn't even thought about them for a family TV.

You say that LCD is better as a computer monitor. Why is that? I would not be using it for normal computer uses, but I would be using a computer or computer like devices for displaying photos.
 
For What its Worth:

On a recent trip to DC, each night we displayed on my daughter's new LED (Samsung 46") TV, the days JPEGS. They were stunning. Considerably better than on my LCD computer monitor. It was quite impressive. I think they paid about $1300 for it. I believe they purchased the mid-line version.
 
I'm going to veer off on a tangent again....

The Wii and HDTV... Have you used your Wii on a large screen HDTV yet? Keep in mind that the Wii is on par with the PS2 and original XBOX graphics wise. Many games look fine, but there are a some that just don't look good on an HDTV. Especially some older Gamecube games. The Wii does upscale, but not very well.

Just keep that in mind when you plug in your Wii and think "This looks like doo doo." It's completely playable, but you will notice it's shortcomings graphics wise with a 1080p TV.
 
Samsung, Sony, Panasonic, someone else?

We have a 50" Vizio plasma that we got at Costco for $1300 a few years back. It is only 1080i, but blu-rays look great none the less. I am just suggesting this as alternative to the major name brands. I am happy and would buy Vizio again.

Just keep that in mind when you plug in your Wii and think "This looks like doo doo." It's completely playable, but you will notice it's shortcomings graphics wise with a 1080p TV.

I've never had an issue with my Wii. Did you hook it up with the component cables or the A/V cable? The component cables will give you 480p vs the 480i of the AV cable. I know I got the Wii for the fun of the games, not the graphics.
 
We have a 50" Vizio plasma that we got at Costco for $1300 a few years back. It is only 1080i, but blu-rays look great none the less. I am just suggesting this as alternative to the major name brands. I am happy and would buy Vizio again.



I've never had an issue with my Wii. Did you hook it up with the component cables or the A/V cable? The component cables will give you 480p vs the 480i of the AV cable. I know I got the Wii for the fun of the games, not the graphics.


FYI the TV is a 720p TV. There are no 1080i native fixed pixel displays. When they advertise 1080i its either because it doesn't meet the 1080p resolution or because they can accept 1080i signals(almost any TV can)

I'm going to veer off on a tangent again....

The Wii and HDTV... Have you used your Wii on a large screen HDTV yet? Keep in mind that the Wii is on par with the PS2 and original XBOX graphics wise. Many games look fine, but there are a some that just don't look good on an HDTV. Especially some older Gamecube games. The Wii does upscale, but not very well.

Just keep that in mind when you plug in your Wii and think "This looks like doo doo." It's completely playable, but you will notice it's shortcomings graphics wise with a 1080p TV.

The Wii doesn't upscale. It can only output 480p over component cables. The upscaling is done by the TV. FYI upscaling is a overrated feature, a TV upscales even an old VHS player. True, some scalers are better than others, but most of the time you would be hard pressed to tell the difference.
 
Thanks for all of the advice. I had initially dismissed plasma as old-school technology and assumed that LED was the best. Now I'm not so sure. I like the lower power consumption of LED, but the cost is so much higher that I don't think I'd ever recoup the difference in electricity savings.

As for Rockband delays, I would consider something that makes games like that less usable to be feature rather than a bug. Gaming in general, however, is fairly important as this TV gets used for the Wii a lot.

I'll go read up on AVSForums. I used them extensively when I built my theater room, but for some reason I hadn't even thought about them for a family TV.

You say that LCD is better as a computer monitor. Why is that? I would not be using it for normal computer uses, but I would be using a computer or computer like devices for displaying photos.

For occasional use, it really doesn't matter. But if you were using it constantly as a computer monitor then the LCD is probably a bit more burn in resistant from the static images displayed on the screen for a long time. I've used both plasma's and LCDs with a computer and they both work great. Normally I would say burn in is a non-issue. But if its primary application was a computer monitor then I might be worried with a plasma.

Just my 2 cents.

For displaying photos...I wouldn't let it concern me.
 
FYI the TV is a 720p TV. There are no 1080i native fixed pixel displays. When they advertise 1080i its either because it doesn't meet the 1080p resolution or because they can accept 1080i signals(almost any TV can)

I'm going to veer off on a tangent again....



The Wii doesn't upscale. It can only output 480p over component cables. The upscaling is done by the TV. FYI upscaling is a overrated feature, a TV upscales even an old VHS player. True, some scalers are better than others, but most of the time you would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

Wow.... and I thought I was a nit picky know it all but I think you have me beat. LOL

You are correct in that the Wii itself does not do the upscaling. My wording was sloppy and imprecise and led to a conclusion that was incomplete and inaccurate.
 














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