OT: We have yet another confrontation with the school

[KariC]

OP, I don't know if private school is an option for you, but your daughter might benefit from a Montessori approach to education. Obviously, if it is determined that she has special needs, serving those needs would be the biggest benefit. But, barring that, maybe looking at a school that is "whole child" focused, where students work at their own pace (with teacher guidance, etc.) which might give your child the ability to develop self confidence and time management skills.

It is something to think about. My dh (late July) and myself (early August) started "on time" and we had no problems academically or socially in the traditional public school setting. So, we decided to start our twins "on time" with mid-September birthdays. However, we were getting "grief" from some of the Pre-K programs, which led us to the Montessori path. The teachers met with our children and assured us that are children were on target for starting, and fully supported that again this year.

Good luck. Be your child's advocate. Insist on evaluations and examine your options. Don't rule out private schools based on financials, many schools have scolarships available.

 

[PA Princess]

No real answers...just empathy. I also have a late June birthday girl in second grade who has had her share of academic struggles. She attended a private K program (advanced program where all kids are reading very well by the end of the year) and she really struggled. We pulled her out and I have been homeschooling her the last two years. That has worked well for us (though I know not an option for everyone).

 

[SalandJeff]

Our cutoff for starting Kindergarten is that they be 5 by Dec. 1. My dd is now 4 with an October birthday. So she would be going to K next September. She was adopted at 21 months from Russia.

She has been in daycare for over 2 years, is now in the preschool program at daycare, and goes to preschool in the public schools 3 mornings per week. Next week, she will start the public school preschool 5 mornings per week. She is young for her age. We have been working with the school, and have found them to be helpful. Last year she received speech therapy. Now that she is in preschool, she still receives the speech therapy, but we think it is really a language delay, i.e. processing delay. This may be what your daughter is having trouble with as well. We are also having the occupational and physical therapists evaluate her right now. Her teacher is very supportive of all of this now that she has had several months to observe my dd.

Although I sometimes feel that the school is thinking about money when determining what special services they provide, I really feel that the teacher and therapists we have been dealing with are truly trying to do the best for my dd. At our last meeting, I asked about Kindergarten. They said they felt it was too early for us to tell, and that all of us, including parents would met later in the school year and determine what would be best for her. I will keep her back from K if I think it will benefit her.

So (after that long story!), if I were you, I would request she be tested. She may need extra services in certain areas. Until you know this, I think it will be very difficult for you to make the best decision for her. But as others have said, if you do need to keep her back, I would do it now while she is still in the early grades. Best of luck with your decision.

 

[roliepolieoliefan]

My DS who is now 9 and in 3rd grade was held back in pre-school. Yea, it was a hard decision, but the teachers obviously have some insight, and let me tell you it was the best thing I did.

He is so much more confident, and able to get his work done without falling behind and being frustrated, which I know he would have been, if I let him go ahead.

If she is in 2nd grade and struggling, what is she going to do when the work gets alot harder, in middle school and beyond?

And I also wonder, why didn't you listen to the teachers in K and hold her back then? It would have been alot easier back then, than now.

You can certainly get her tested, but you already know what she's doing and what the teachers have suggested.

 

[jakenjess]

I really feel for you. These are very difficult decisions to make, and it's almost impossible to be objective about our own kids. I don't have any real advice, but I can share my experiences with you.

DS has a Sept. birthday. He's small for his age and socially was a bit behind his peers in daycare. But on the flip side, academically he's very advanced so we struggled with whether or not to start K at age 5 (our cutoff here is Oct. 15). We decided to do another year of daycare/preschool, and it was the best thing we could have done for him. He was diagnosed with ADD in 1st grade and took meds for a while, but he's been off them for three years now, is in 6th grade and doing great. I was afraid he'd be the oldest in his class, but he's not. Many parents are holding their kids, even with late spring/summer birthdays.

Then along comes DD with a late July birthday. Academically right on track, socially advanced for her age. Didn't even question holding her a year. So she started K right after she turned 5. She's always been the youngest in her class, but she's doing fine. She's a hard worker and gets good grades and is a social butterfly. But I will say I can see the difference in maturity between her and some of her friends that are almost a year older than she is. It's not a big issue for her, but I can see how for some kids it would be.

Listen to what the teachers have to say, listen to your heart, and best of luck in your decision.

 

[jeepgirl30]

OP here!

Some of you have asked why i did not listen to the kgarten teacher and hold her back then. Our school cut of is Aug 1st. They gave me two reasons in Kgarten one was her age. Not her maturity or socialiaztion simple her age. The other was reading. however, she and i talked and she did not want to read in front of the other kids because she reads slower than they do. She was embarassed. I explained to the teacher and she pulled her aside and agreed she was better than they thought.

She also refused to write her name in lower case. She'd write letters in lower just not her name. Why? "Mommy, it doesn't look pretty that way".

The school conducted a series of tests at my insistence last year but did not find a learning disability. However they said it was very early and may not show true representation.

They do have a support team and I feel they too have her interest at heart but also their funding is on the line. I have a friend that teaches in the highschool and has a daughter in 1st grade. He is struggling with wanting to send her to private school because of cases like my daughter. The school is very focused on the No Child Left Behind and has a very high rate of retention for k-2nd. This is why i said i feel she has been "targeted".

She is in a special reading program and the teacher has said she is showing a lot of improvement, this was in nov.

For this meeting they have not mentioned retention yet, I'm just fearing it.

I did talk to DD and she is very against being held back. She keeps insisting she is just slower than the others.

They are re testing her for a series of learning disabilities to rule that out. If that comes back again clean we will openly talk about retaining her.

 

[creativeamanda]

Another special education teacher who agrees that holding a child back in the early grades has shown to not be helpful.

 

[okeydokey]

Will your DH be able to attend this meeting with you? If not, can someone else accompany you? It's hard to take in all the info at these meetings, especially when there are so many of them and only one of you. Maybe having a supportive friend or family member at your side will at least help you feel calmer. Good luck, and please let us know how it turns out.

 

[tmatthews]

"I have a friend that teaches in the highschool and has a daughter in 1st grade. He is struggling with wanting to send her to private school because of cases like my daughter. The school is very focused on the No Child Left Behind and has a very high rate of retention for k-2nd. This is why i said i feel she has been "targeted". "

Just a question, have you thought about leaving your school system? IF you have you could transfer your daughter and keep her back. She will be with new kids in a new surrounding. Just an option maybe!? I would only offer this: when attending a meeting go in with an open ear and truly listen to the teachers. From experience the differences are going to get bigger as time progresses. It is difficult sitting in a meeting listening to the difficulties your DD is going through....but as all kids I am sure she has many gifts!

Wishing you good thoughts.

 

[irene_dsc]

OP here!

Some of you have asked why i did not listen to the kgarten teacher and hold her back then. Our school cut of is Aug 1st. They gave me two reasons in Kgarten one was her age. Not her maturity or socialiaztion simple her age. The other was reading. however, she and i talked and she did not want to read in front of the other kids because she reads slower than they do. She was embarassed. I explained to the teacher and she pulled her aside and agreed she was better than they thought.

She also refused to write her name in lower case. She'd write letters in lower just not her name. Why? "Mommy, it doesn't look pretty that way".

The school conducted a series of tests at my insistence last year but did not find a learning disability. However they said it was very early and may not show true representation.

They do have a support team and I feel they too have her interest at heart but also their funding is on the line. I have a friend that teaches in the highschool and has a daughter in 1st grade. He is struggling with wanting to send her to private school because of cases like my daughter. The school is very focused on the No Child Left Behind and has a very high rate of retention for k-2nd. This is why i said i feel she has been "targeted".

She is in a special reading program and the teacher has said she is showing a lot of improvement, this was in nov.

For this meeting they have not mentioned retention yet, I'm just fearing it.

I did talk to DD and she is very against being held back. She keeps insisting she is just slower than the others.

They are re testing her for a series of learning disabilities to rule that out. If that comes back again clean we will openly talk about retaining her.

We're going through similar, tho not quite the same stuff here. I will say, if it is ADD, the school isn't qualified to test it - they need an outside person like a neuropsychologist to evaluate her. That costs the school money, so they aren't likely to suggest it (we have a relatively affluent, pro-active school, so they did suggest it, but I know that isn't the norm!). But, what you are describing is sounding like the inattentive, dreamy part of ADD - the part that tends to get missed in girls, because they aren't acting out (like, say, my ds!) ADD is NOT a learning disability, but she can qualify for services or extra time, etc in a IEP. (We just had a conference at school yesterday where ds got his IEP, and so far, his behavior issues have been addressed more than the attention issues, but it is mentioned in case it becomes more of an issue in the future. As in, first you have to get him to agree to try and do the work - and now that he is cooperating better, I am noticing the distractibility issues more when he is also trying, like changing the subject in the middle of copying down a spelling word.) And btw, I'm just saying this is a *possibility* for your daughter, not trying to diagnose her from afar!

Oh, and btw, ds has a July birthday, and is one of the youngest in his grade. But, girls are usually not considered as much at risk for being the youngest, so it really surprises me that you got so much grief for a girl with a June birthday. (Our cut-off is Sept. 1).

 

[Rylee]

OP here!

Some of you have asked why i did not listen to the kgarten teacher and hold her back then. Our school cut of is Aug 1st. They gave me two reasons in Kgarten one was her age. Not her maturity or socialiaztion simple her age. The other was reading. however, she and i talked and she did not want to read in front of the other kids because she reads slower than they do. She was embarassed. I explained to the teacher and she pulled her aside and agreed she was better than they thought.

She also refused to write her name in lower case. She'd write letters in lower just not her name. Why? "Mommy, it doesn't look pretty that way".

The school conducted a series of tests at my insistence last year but did not find a learning disability. However they said it was very early and may not show true representation.

They do have a support team and I feel they too have her interest at heart but also their funding is on the line. I have a friend that teaches in the highschool and has a daughter in 1st grade. He is struggling with wanting to send her to private school because of cases like my daughter. The school is very focused on the No Child Left Behind and has a very high rate of retention for k-2nd. This is why i said i feel she has been "targeted".

She is in a special reading program and the teacher has said she is showing a lot of improvement, this was in nov.

For this meeting they have not mentioned retention yet, I'm just fearing it.

I did talk to DD and she is very against being held back. She keeps insisting she is just slower than the others.

They are re testing her for a series of learning disabilities to rule that out. If that comes back again clean we will openly talk about retaining her.

Hi,

I believe when they refer to her age, the are not just speaking about a "number". It is a general way (too general, I know) of saying a child is simply not ready to advance or a possible explanation of her difficulties.

My third daughter's birthday is June 24TH, and all I heard in K and 1st, was, "She's so young." My 4th child's (a boy) birthday is July 27th... and I have not heard that comment once! To enter kindergarten here, a child must turn 5 by Dec. 1ST.

My 1ST and 2ND daughters were always at the top of their class, (it was obvious even in elementary school, and have since graduated, ranking 6TH and 14TH in their graduating classes). When #3 came along, I was aware of slight differences. Her K teacher told me I was comparing her to my other children, saying they had been above average and #3, was right where she should be. She moved on and did well, but it was a struggle for her. We opted to have her repeat 1ST grade but every year it was the same thing - Nov. conference... no problems, teacher didn't notice what I was seeing, Jan. report card... a slight slip in grades, by April conference... "You might be right, I think she does have a problem." The school tested her in 1ST giving her boderline labels, with no modifications, and in 2ND grade, giving her a 504 plan. It wasn't until 4TH grade, when she had an excellect teacher who insisted she be tested outside of the district, she was finally diagnosed... Specific Language Recall Disability (also know by other names). What a relief it was, to finally understand what was going on with her. This Dr. said she was of higher than average intelligence and (by this time) had learned to compensate, for it, very well. She was labeled, and had an IEP.

And, ya know what... by 6TH grade, they declassified her, since her averages were all in the high 90's. She is currently in 11TH grade, not labeled, and is in the top 10 of her class. I will never know if holding her back in 1ST made a difference for her, but I do know my daughter has always wanted to perform well in school, it is important to her and she takes pride n her work and grades.

As for our son, currently in 4TH grade, he is brilliant, but his maturity level is exactly that of a 9 year old boy, and it should be... he is 9.

One more thing - promise

The little girl I babysit is in 3RD grade. It has been recommend, every year so far, to have her repeat the grade. The parents refuse, they won't hear of it, saying things like "She's just lazy." Anyway, sometimes when my boys (another son in 1ST grade) are doing their homework, she'll watch with amazement. She make comments like, "You're done with that already!" When my 4TH grader asked her to give him a pre-test in spelling (I was getting snacks) she took one look at the words and said, "No." She couldn't read the words. She makes comments like, "School is stupid" or when asked about a poor grade, she shrugs and says, "I don't care." I think she does care but I think her parents attitude is forcing this little girl to put up a front to save face.

 

[sahm1000]

I have two daughters 4 and 2 who were born on 7/26 and 6/1 and number three is expected 7/9. Our school cutoff is August 31 and all of my children will be held back and will start kindergarten when they are 6.

As a former teacher (I'm a stay-at-home-mom now) of both middle school and special education please know that most of the teachers have your child's best interest at heart. Most teachers enter the profession because of a love of children and only want what is best for them (it's not like they are motivated because of money ). While there is pressure by administrators to have high test scores, I cannot imagine that is what is motivating them to suggest holding her back. As far as retention pros and cons, I have always seen studies that show there is a benefit to retention if it is done before third grade and that after third grade is where there is no benefit and can possibly be harmful.

I would request, in writing, that she have formal testing for a learning disability (it is very important that this request be in writing since they have 30 days to act on it). I would also take her to the pediatrician and ask for an ADD/ADHD evaluation (this is a medical diagnosis and a school cannot make this diagnosis although they can assist the doctor in the diagnosis). The ADD/ADHD evaluation is usually a behavior rating scale that several people will be asked to complete (the parents, teachers, the doctor, any other caregivers or people who have lots of interation with your daughter). If a diagnosis of ADD/ADHD is made the school can come up with interventions to accomodate your daughter (like giving her more time on tests, breaking down tasks into smaller tasks, taking tests/exams in a different setting where there are less distractions, etc.) and will need to be followed by all teachers. Although many parents feel that there is a stigma attached to having a learning disability or a diagnosis of ADD/ADHD please consider the hardship that your daughter will eventually go through if this is left undiagnosed (a feeling of failure, constant struggling, etc.). Also, if an IEP is written that allows for extra time for test taking, different testing locations, etc. this will possibly follow (unless your daughter is determined to no longer need the interventions) your daughter into high school and college and allow for modifications when taking the ACT/SAT and possibly college exams which could benefit her dramatically. Please see these evaluations as a way to gain insight into how your daughter learns and what can be done to better help her learn so that she can be as successful as possible throughout her life.

 

[WDmommyof4]

I went through this with my oldest son as well, but in a slightly different way. I won't try and tell you what you should do, but I will tell you my experience and hopefully is might be helpful. My oldest is 7 now and in 1st grade, he will not turn 8 until the end of June.

When he started kindergarten, he had just turned 5 in June. Emotionally and Mentally, he was not ready for Kindergarten. I put him in because that is what was required of me. By the end of Kindergarten, they put him through to first grade, but I didn't feel he was ready. I kept him home for a year and home schooled him. I got him ready for what I felt he needed to know in first grade, and then I placed him in First grade at the beginning of this year. He has done amazingly academic wise in school this year, and has only had a few behavioral problems that we are beginning to get through just now. I feel that my decision to hold him back did nothing but benefit him, and he is still the same age as the kids in his class. He wasn't effected negatively by being held back, and I have no regrets about doing it.

Again, I am not saying you should or shouldn't, but it was the right decision for my son. I on the other hand was put into Kindergarten when I was 4 and was never held back once. Some children do well at an early age, others need a little extra time. Hope this helps, and good luck to you!

 

[Minniemouse07]

I would request, in writing, that she have formal testing for a learning disability (it is very important that this request be in writing since they have 30 days to act on it).

Just an FYI..I've seen this 30 day rule here twice and just want to let you know that it is not the case in every state. I have a number of friends that have had their children go through the testing process here in PA and the rule here is 60 SCHOOL DAYS, from the time of the request.

So check your specific state's rules!

 

[deedeetoo]

This thread has me thinking.

My dd9 is a July baby and now in the 4th grade. She is also very small for her age, so had gone through school smaller and younger than everyone else in her class.

Not one person has suggested to me that she stay back, but she has a lot of the problems others talk about. She is very slow getting her work done - this is always the main topic when I have a conference with teachers. And she spends much more time on homework than they say it should take to do it. I think she also is emotionally less mature than her peers.

Yet on her MCAS last year (statewide standardized tests) she was in the highest category in English and just missed it in Math by one question. I'm thinking that holding her back hasn't been suggested because she is doing OK academically, but I do wonder if we would have been better off with her back a grade in the beginning.

 

[Aristomommy]

I just wonder why the fact that a child is working at a slower pace is considered an age issue? There are children that are always like that, no matter what their age is. It could be trouble focusing to get a task started, or a child who is a daydreamer or one who wants to ponder things to deeper levels. I understand that math tests are timed for proficiency, but some children know the material and work at a slower pace always.

DD9 is a child who at times procrastinates esp. when a task is boring or repetitive. She could take FOREVER to get started, or she may want to chat with friends or teacher instead. Of course this is a no-no during a test, but her teachers know very well how to redirect her and she gets all A's. She is actually tested as exceptionally gifted and may be up for a full grade skip again as suggested by school. So slow isn't always immature or young, it's JUST SLOOOOOOW

 

[Darcy03231]

OP - I feel for you as I've been there too. DD is a mid-august baby. Our school cut off is 10/1. Since she was 6 prior to 10/1 she entered the first grade. My situation is different in that I had reservations at the end of kindergarden about her going to first grade, but was told to relax she'd be fine. Well, she wasn't fine. I had her tested and while the tests didn't show any learning disability, she scored pretty much on the average line, with a few things below and few above. I made the decision to have her repeat first grade and actually had to fight with the school to hold her back. They wanted to push her forward on a modified program.

Fast forward to today and I have a 16 y.o who is very mature, self-confident and in the top of her class. Both she and I are very glad we held her back and gave her that extra year. I based my final decision on the fact that I felt that while an extra year of first grade wouldn't hurt her, not give her that extra year might. Since she started high school last year I'm doubly glad she's a year older.

 

[OU1247]

As a teacher and a person who WAS the youngest of all her class I can relate to this.

1. Teachers do not want to hold kids back just for fun. They don't get paid extra money for each kid they hold back. Just ask yourself this..."If you doctor said she need to take some medicine every day or she would get sick" wouldn't you give her the medicine? Have faith in your teachers.

2. I was the youngest. When I started school in NY the cut off age was Dec 1. So when I moved to Oklahoma the cut off was Sept1. So my Nov. 25 birthday made me very young. I was ok in and tested well so they kept me in my grade. I was the last to drive, last to drink in college, I was 17 when I went to college and had to have medical waviers signed for my parents incase I got sick because I was a minor.

It is NOT A FALIURE on you when a child has to be held back. Some kids are just not ready. It's okay.

 

[_queenie_]

Quick comment on 504 plans-

I arranged one for my DS17 when he was in sixth grade because he has bad ADD (no meds though), mild tic disorder and though he hasn't been diagnosed what I believe is a mild case of Asbergers. It was pretty hard to get it first, I started looking into getting a 504 when he was in fifth grade (start of middle school) after his new guidance counciler suggested it due to his minor learning disability. I had it so it would start at the very beginning of sixth grade, but that teacher completely ignored it. I kept asking DS if he was getting his extra time on tests, etc and he said no. I kept in contact with guidance as she often tried asking me how my DS was doing, and she kept reminding the teacher he needed the help the 504 provided. After a whole year of struggling (me, my DS and the counciler) we never got anything accomplished with that teacher. Finally the year later the teachers were very good about the 504 and his grades improved dramatically (he's very smart but needs that extra help).

For anyone who decides to get one, just stay on top of it and make sure your child's teachers pay attention to it.

 

[The Disney Bunch]

In my opnion, if the teachers have been recommending for 2-3 years to hold her back and have shown that she is not keeping up with her peers, then why are you bucking the teachers? If she is not showing a learning disability, which you said she has been tested for, then why are you pushing her to do work that she may not be ready for? It is not you in the classroom. It is your daughter in the classroom. It is not an indication of your parenting if she is held back. She may need that extra time to catch up. There are 6 kids in my daughters class that were held back & I never would have known if I wasn't the class mom & aware of the kids' birthdays. It is harder now in the second grade to hold your daughter back than if you had done it in kindergarten or even 1st grade. I am sorry she is struggling with this.