OT: We have yet another confrontation with the school

[MM27]

If retention is a possibility, it is so much better to do it now in the younger grades than later on. I know, as a teacher, the decision to put in a request for retention is one that I really look at carefully and weigh the pros and cons for each child. I've had some students that retention would have done nothing but frustrate them even more. For those students I begin the process of referral to the Child Study Team. If the teachers are recommending this every year, there is probably more to it than just an age thing.

I can tell you of a success story I had a few years ago. I had a girl in my class that was retained the year before (I knew her from the year before when she was in my friends class). She came into my room in September and right away her confidence was so high because she knew a lot of the skills we were working on right away. She would tell me constantly that she remembered bits and pieces of things from the year before, but she was really "getting it" this year. She had the most amazing year.

You really have to look at the big picture and it will not be easy. Be open and listen to what the teacher/principal have to say but tell them you want some time to decide. Good luck in whatever you choose to do.

 

[torinsmom]

Have you done a formal meeting to discuss test results? There are a lot of meetings with the exceptional childrens' department to decide whether to test and then to discuss test results and sign a million forms when there is formal testing. It could be that they have done screening, which is not enough. I would say your DD needs a complete evaluation, which would include an IQ test, speech evaluation, occupational therapy evaluation and more. That is the only way to see if there is a discrepancy between her abilities and performance. You can also ask your DD's pediatrician for the ADD forms to fill out and see if she may be showing signs of ADD. If/when she qualifies for services, she can have acommodations like extra time, modification of assignments, etc. My son has ADD and a few LD's that were never recognized until he was tested in 5th grade. Like your DD's tests, I had always noticed the patterns in the tests, Low, high, low high, etc. With accomodations, he has done so much better!

Anyway, with the documentation from three years of teacher concerns, it shouldn't be hard to get the school to agree to a full workup to see what's going on. If nothing shows up, then go from there....

Marsha

 

[fishie]

Another former teacher turned SAHM, here. I want to echo the idea or either private school (esp. Montessori!) or homeschooling, if you can afford either. Of course, since I've chosen to homeschool my own kids, I am a bit partial to that option, but . . . . in all honesty, I think from what you've posted, your dd would do well in a situation where she had more control of the pace of her learning.

One of the main reasons I walked away from teaching was the testing testing testing. I have always had issues with it, and finally had to listen to my inner voice. Schools, and consequently administrators, teachers, and -- yes, students, -- are getting insane amounts of pressure to produce test results, which really have nothing to do with learning.

 

[RachelNinja]

I don't know much about all of this since I'm a new teacher (junior high, 6th-8th grade) but I hope that you don't totally disregard what your child's teachers are saying. That's not to say that you should take their word for everything. If you want further testing, if you want to wait a little longer, please do it. Like other posters have said, you know your child. But also remember, your child's teachers see your child in a different light for 6 hours in school.

There are 2 students in the middle school who should have been left back while they were in elementary school (left back around the 4th grade, not earlier). One specific kid has a 4th grade mentality (they actually asked to hold him back during 4th grade but the parents would not allow it). He cannot socialize at his age level (he reacts as if he were younger than his 5th grade sister) and he cannot grasp concepts. He does have an IEP but there's only so much that a teacher can do. He is tutored for hours after school (that's the only way he can finish his homework ... but we also see a difference between the work done in school and at home, so it's obvious that the tutor is doing more than she should ...).

The principal, assistant principal, another teacher, and I had a conference with this student's parents. They were appalled that their child may have to be left back. They were angered that their child might not graduate in a year and a half. There were tears and harsh words spoken. Trust me, I did not enjoy this situation. I would never want to hold back a child. Test scores had nothing to do with it. I feel like if nothing is done now, it's going to continue getting worse. High school is going to be impossible. All the teachers have discussed this issue time and time again, trying to resolve it in some other way, but we don't want to "cheat" the student by not speaking up.

I can't speak for your school and obviously you're the one meeting with teachers. You can most likely tell what their motives are. However, please also remember that teachers do want all students to succeed. The majority of teachers do NOT want to see students fail. My favorite part of being a teacher is to see when that lightbulb goes off and something is understood and learned! For some students, it may just take a little more time. Teachers are asking for more of that time.

Either way, good luck with making your decision. Maybe you don't want to consider it now because your child's at such a young age, but in the future, remember that teachers are looking out for your child

 

[connorlevismom]

2. I was the youngest. When I started school in NY the cut off age was Dec 1. So when I moved to Oklahoma the cut off was Sept1. So my Nov. 25 birthday made me very young. I was ok in and tested well so they kept me in my grade. I was the last to drive, last to drink in college, I was 17 when I went to college and had to have medical waviers signed for my parents incase I got sick because I was a minor.

.

I agree with this 100% I posted earlier that I did not like being so young and this is the exact reason.

Kristine

 

[Disney loving Iowan]

My daughter's birthday is June 8 so she started kindergarten at 5 and 2 months. We have never had any problems. She is 14 now and does tell us that alot of the kids are older than her. But I wouldn't change when we started her. Especially if that is the only problem. Someday she will appreciate being a couple months younger than the kids she graduates with! I know cause I've been there. I started 1st grade when I was 5 1/2. When I was in second grade and living in Kentucky the schools principal talked to my Mom about putting me back in 1st grade. Fortunatly my Mom told him that they needed to talk to me about it. When the principal asked me if I wanted to go back into 1st grade I thought he was nuts and said no way! I never had problems because of being younger. It wasn't even anything we thought about.

 

[jeepgirl30]

Well we had the meeting and DH was with me this time. We had the reading specialist, her teacher, the school councelor and principal all in the room. It was very positive and friendly.

Basically we stressed we wanted what was best for my DD not just next year but throughout her entire school years and beyond.

We pointed out on her timed test her accuracy is 90% on the completed ones. I also mentioned how she tends to be slow on tasks, all tasks!

The reading teacher was very encouraging with her progress. They did say she is reading at a begining 2nd grade level and they wanted her further. And she is scoring average on all the placement tests.

They did not mention retention and both my DH and I feel only 1/2 the room was leaning that way.

They are bringing in a psychologist for further evaluation. In the meantime we are all continuing to work with her to help her improve.

I bought more math flash cards, her teacher sent home additional reading packets and the reading specialist sent home phonics flash cards.

I feel much better with it being a group effort and not "us against them". They really seemed more open to my concerns about her future with the retention. I was thrilled DH was there as well as it showed his perspective and that we were doing all we can as well.

Its not that I do not want to listen to the teachers, I just want to understand WHY they feel she needs to be held back and exactly how it will benefit her throughout her lifetime. My fear is they hold her back now and in a couple years she is bored because she is not challenged. At the same time we do not want her struggling each year. We don't want her esteem shattered for either choice. Holding her back she faces teasing, not holding her back she faces frustration. Never did they seem 100% confident it was best for her to hold her back. When I would push they would say it was my decision. I feel if they truly felt it was the only solution it would have been a little more to it than me saying I wasn't sure.

So heres hoping a spark lights the next couple months!

 

[tmatthews]

Unfortunately you can never be 100% positive that any decision is the best. Every child is different but it is easier for self esteem and learning if things come easier to a child than more difficult. I hope you see the progress you are looking for!

 

[Rylee]

Well we had the meeting and DH was with me this time. We had the reading specialist, her teacher, the school councelor and principal all in the room. It was very positive and friendly.

Basically we stressed we wanted what was best for my DD not just next year but throughout her entire school years and beyond.

We pointed out on her timed test her accuracy is 90% on the completed ones. I also mentioned how she tends to be slow on tasks, all tasks!

The reading teacher was very encouraging with her progress. They did say she is reading at a begining 2nd grade level and they wanted her further. And she is scoring average on all the placement tests.

They did not mention retention and both my DH and I feel only 1/2 the room was leaning that way.

They are bringing in a psychologist for further evaluation. In the meantime we are all continuing to work with her to help her improve.

I bought more math flash cards, her teacher sent home additional reading packets and the reading specialist sent home phonics flash cards.

I feel much better with it being a group effort and not "us against them". They really seemed more open to my concerns about her future with the retention. I was thrilled DH was there as well as it showed his perspective and that we were doing all we can as well.

Its not that I do not want to listen to the teachers, I just want to understand WHY they feel she needs to be held back and exactly how it will benefit her throughout her lifetime. My fear is they hold her back now and in a couple years she is bored because she is not challenged. At the same time we do not want her struggling each year. We don't want her esteem shattered for either choice. Holding her back she faces teasing, not holding her back she faces frustration. Never did they seem 100% confident it was best for her to hold her back. When I would push they would say it was my decision. I feel if they truly felt it was the only solution it would have been a little more to it than me saying I wasn't sure.

So heres hoping a spark lights the next couple months!

I'm glad you left the meeting feeling more positive.

They are telling you it is your decision, because in the elementary years, the decision is usually left to the parents. The belief is... If parents are so against holding their child back, the child will pick up on the resentment and negative feelings, and most teachers feel the child will not benefit in this case. However, it will not be the parents choice in high school. She will have to make the grade to get credit for the course.

 

[tink's girls]

Hello! I haven't read through all of the posts, only the first few and your last one, so forgive me if this is has already been said. I am a parent of two elementary age kids and also a teacher's aide (kindergarten) as well as a certified teacher who used to teacher 4th grade before having my DD. As a side note, I have decided to be an aide rather than teach at this time so my hours are the same as my kids and I am not doing hours of work at home like I used to. Anyway, I just wanted to say that I am sorry that your first "conference" did not go well but am glad to hear this most recent one was more positive. It sounds like you and your husband are doing everything you can to help your DD. I'd like to offer two perspectives of the situation.

From the teacher point of view I would say that most teachers have their students best interest in mind. Now everyone knows their are terrible teachers, just like terrible doctors, waitresses, etc., but for the most part, teachers want what is best for their students. Talking with a parent about testing for learning difficulties and/or retention is very sensitive thing. When met with resistence it would be much easier for the teacher to say "Well the parents don't want this so I'll just wash my hands of it and they can deal with their child down the road". Thankfully that does not happen in most cases, because as I said earlier, most teachers have their students best interest in mind. A teacher has nothing to gain by retaining a child and if they are going to the trouble of recommending testing, having the child work with the reading specialist, etc. then they must feel strongly that the child needs extra help. Ok, that's my teacher's point of view.

Now from the parent point of view. My DS7 has been held back. We actually chose to hold him back before he started kindergarten. He would have been very young and being a boy, more immature than the girls. His pre-k teacher recommended he have another year before starting kindergarten. Here was her quote (and by the way,I asked her not to sugar coat the situation but to "tell it like it is") "DS would make it in kindergarden and beyond, but if you want him to really excel and reach his full potential, then another year in pre-k is what I recommend". The teacher part of me had seen children struggle and did not want this for my son. It's not that I want him to be "the best" in his class, I just want him to be the best student he can be. I will tell you that he struggled with not going to kindergarten with his pre-k friends, however at 5 he did not experience the teasing that you are worried about for your daughter. We looked at it as short term pain for long term gain. We did not want him to struggle through school and, for our DS, we definitely made the right choice. Both his kindergarten teacher and his first grade teacher have validated that.

Ok, sorry for the long ramble. Back to your situation. One of the questions you asked is why you feel retention benefits a child. If a child has the ability to learn the material, but just needs more time to learn it then often a teacher in the early grades(k-2) will recommend retention so that the student has a firm grasp of the basics - reading, writing, basic math - before they enter the later elem grades (3-5) where all of those concepts are built upon. I will also tell you that, at least where I am, that there is a major jump between 2nd and 3rd grade as far as the speed at which the material is taught, the amount of homework given, and the amount of state mandated testing that is required. A child that is struggling slightly at our school in 2nd grade is going to have an extremely difficult time in 3rd and beyond.

Ok, all that being said, I wish you and your DD the best of luck. I hope that you and the school are able to come to an agreement on what is best for her!

 

[DawnM]

It is 60 days in CA and NC too. I actually have never heard of 30 days. I don't know how the districts can even have the manpower to comply with that!

Dawn

Just an FYI..I've seen this 30 day rule here twice and just want to let you know that it is not the case in every state. I have a number of friends that have had their children go through the testing process here in PA and the rule here is 60 SCHOOL DAYS, from the time of the request.

So check your specific state's rules!

 

[DISNEYFOS]

All schools seem to worry about these days are test scores, maybe thats why they want to hold your dd back. If she is held back, the work will not challenging at all, her test scores will be way higher. And thats the bottom line for schools, test scores matter, students dont. I certainly wouldnt be one for trusting the teachers. Trust your insticts. Who is the parent, you or them?

EXACTLY. Unfortunately, I think this is so very true...It seems All they care about is MCAS scores these days. Hold back the kids so we get better scores.

I have an End of Oct Birthday as does my Husband. We both started school at 4. We have not been harmed in any way. We both excelled in school and to be quite honest I never felt challenged until college. I got my Masters from Harvard..my husband is an Engineer.

I have had more than one teacher tell me if my 4 year old (5 in Oct) was to start Kindergarten early..she would be a 4 year old amongst mostly 6 year olds..Its a disturbing trend..I think.