OT: Spirited Children

[Erin13178]

Oh and just an example of how my child can turn something so simple to something so just utterly frustrating.

Today we were at walmart and I was looking for stuff to make the lime green Mickey heads since the closest Home Depot is 45 minutes from me. Ok so I want to make them and put them on keychains with beads etc. Soooo we had picked up the beads, key chain things, bead thread or whatever it's called, and then finally a lime green poster board. So we have it all in the cart, along with my dd who is getting too big to be in there. She takes the poster board and is all bending it, and I ask her to stop. She then drops it out of the cart 2 times, again I ask her to stop and try to explain why we want to keep it nice. Then she starts making a tent with it. I then ask her to stop again, it's getting bent, and I tell her if she can't do as I ask we are putting everything back and that means no crafts for today. Well what does she do....makes a tent with it again, drops it out of the cart, etc. So what did I do? I put EVERYTHING in the cart back. All the fun stuff and everything she wanted. The only thing we bought was her medicine, lol. Yes she was disappointed, but she dealt with it.

 

[noodleknitter]

Good job. It is so hard to do the right thing, sometimes! I hope you get your stuff soon!

 

[Erin13178]

Good job. It is so hard to do the right thing, sometimes! I hope you get your stuff soon!

LOL thank you! Ahhh it's just been one of those days. I think I need a beer now that she's in bed, hahaha.

 

[SmallWorld71]

I know just how you feel. DH and I often joke to each other that if DD5 was the 1st, she would have been the last! Seriously, she kept getting kicked out of the hospital nursery when she was born because she kept disrupting all the other babies.

Anyway, she has so many other wonderful qualities, such as imagination, kindness to little ones, creativity etc... that go along with her "exhaustiveness" that we really do feel blessed to have her in our lives. DS9 (her polar opposite) has said that he thinks God sent him a sister like that to help him get over being so shy. She's been independent from the get go which is great when you have a 1 year old who can put on all her clothes, not so great when she wants to wear cherry print shorts with a polka dot shirt.

Anyway, while it is certainly tiring, we do our best to stick to our guns (doesn't always work) and pick our battles. While we do try to use positive reinforcement, we have actually found a great system that works to deal with difficult behaviors. We only use this for difficult behavior at a time. Right now that is DD's need to cry and sob like she's been shot if something doesn't go exactly as she wants it to. We have three paper X's on the fridge and if she cries and sobs when she is not hurt, she needs to remove an X. If all 3 X's are removed, she losed T.V./ computer for the rest of the day. She's never lost all 3 X's and we've gone from dramatic sobbing multiple times a day, to her using her words to tell us what the problem is.

Keep up the hard work, and you may just be surprised. DD's pre-school teacher was constantly commenting on how wonderful she was and how she wished she had more like her. Difficult at home can translate to a leader at school.

 

[Maggie'sMom]

LOL thank you! Ahhh it's just been one of those days. I think I need a beer now that she's in bed, hahaha.

I know those days. Luckily, I have very few of them now as compared to a year ago. I knew it was a REALLY bad day when I grabbed a beer out of the fridge on the way up to putting her in bed instead of waiting until after she was settled in bed. I've only done that once, but I remember laughing about it with friends.

 

[Maggie'sMom]

Anyway, she has so many other wonderful qualities, such as imagination, kindness to little ones, creativity etc... that go along with her "exhaustiveness" that we really do feel blessed to have her in our lives. DS9 (her polar opposite) has said that he thinks God sent him a sister like that to help him get over being so shy. She's been independent from the get go which is great when you have a 1 year old who can put on all her clothes, not so great when she wants to wear cherry print shorts with a polka dot shirt.

...

Keep up the hard work, and you may just be surprised. DD's pre-school teacher was constantly commenting on how wonderful she was and how she wished she had more like her. Difficult at home can translate to a leader at school.

Your DD sounds so much like mine. She's so creative, artistic, and has an awesome imagination. These all go hand in hand with her independent streak. I keep telling people that the qualities that are driving me up a wall now will serve her well when she's 20 years old. Ultimately, I want her to be independent, free-thinking, tenacious, able to stand up for herself and speak her mind. Unfortunately, combine those qualities with the limited life experience of a 4 year old and it's no wonder I'm losing the battle against the greys in my hair.

It's funny because I relate some of the stories about difficult times I've had with her to my friends. A couple of them have watched her from time to time when I need to run errands, go to a doctor appointment, or do something where I can't bring her along. They tell me I'm crazy. There's no way my "sweet little Maggie" could be doing the things I say she's doing. Apparently she's an angel for them. One friend finally witnessed her in action one afternoon when we'd taken our daughters to a park together. DD threw a colossal tantrum in the park when she didn't get her way, and I had to forceably strap her into her stroller and quickly exit as she was flailing about and screaming bloody murder. Beth still talks about that day and it was over a year ago.

 

[Miss LD]

My 4 year old DS is "spirited" also.
I'm home on mat leave, and so I have to admit that it's exhausting 24/7. (though I am appreciating the time). We're also trying to use the positive encouragement method and rewarding good behaviour not punishing bad behaviour as much.
But, just so you know, I was one of the most difficult kids around. I was very strong willed and a difficult kid all around. Once I got older I learned how to use that strong will in a positive way. My parents always had their hands full, but as an adult that strong will has helped me survive no matter what life has thrown my way, and there have been curve balls.
I'm hoping that my son will channel his energy in a positive way, and I'm sure if you keep helping your dd on that path she will also.
And ... 4 is a REALLY tough age.

 

[SmallWorld71]

It's funny because I relate some of the stories about difficult times I've had with her to my friends. A couple of them have watched her from time to time when I need to run errands, go to a doctor appointment, or do something where I can't bring her along. They tell me I'm crazy. There's no way my "sweet little Maggie" could be doing the things I say she's doing. Apparently she's an angel for them. One friend finally witnessed her in action one afternoon when we'd taken our daughters to a park together. DD threw a colossal tantrum in the park when she didn't get her way, and I had to forceably strap her into her stroller and quickly exit as she was flailing about and screaming bloody murder. Beth still talks about that day and it was over a year ago.

I know where you're coming from. DMom takes care of her frequently when I work, so she's seen her in action plenty of times. She's the only one outside of the immediate family who has really experienced how tiring our princess can be. The rest of the world seems to be in awe of our "sweet little girl." I guess that means we're doing something right.

 

[Erin13178]

Wow it's sooo nice to see how you all seem to know exactly what I'm talking about. Some of these posts on here I could've written myself. My little Eden (and I share her name with you cause 1) she's pretty much the only Eden in town, and 2) she's the only bi-racial Eden around) is so spunky, outgoing, creative, and LOVES being on stage. We were recently in the musical Oklahoma, and everyone LOVED her in it, but really, I ended up having to be in it also just to manage her.

Having a child who is strong willed and independent is so wonderful cause I just have this feeling that she will be a leader in years to come. All the teachers just love her, and so does her daycare provider. Yet at home and with Mamaw it's soooo frustrating and hard.

Again thank you all for all the support, sharing, thoughts, insight, and suggestions. It's just good to know I'm not alone, and it's good to know that 4 is a difficult age.

 

[Luv Bunnies]

My situation is a little different since my son has special needs (Asperger's Syndrome). But what I learned from his psychologist can apply to managing any child.

When the child starts throwing a fit, you have to resist the urge to yell back. This will only escalate the situation. You also need to resist the urge to talk too much. It's best to use a few well-chosen words to let the child know that you will not give in to the fit. You have to outline consequences with just a few words and be willing to follow through with the consequences (for example, "If you don't stop yelling, you will lose your computer time for today"). Then, don't negotiate or give the behavior any further attention. If the child doesn't respond, be prepared to follow through with the consequence. This will probably result in more screaming, crying, etc. but you can't give in. If you find yourself becoming too engaged, it's time to walk away.

The key is that you can never, ever let the behavior win. That will teach the child that screaming/yelling/crying works to get what they want. The psychologist said the behavior would probably get worse before it gets better when applying this method. The child will try harder to get your attention by increasing the behavior. It's not easy, but you have to wait it out and be consistent. The behavior will eventually decrease as the child realizes that it no longer works.

As you're doing this, it's important to teach the child what alternate behavior you will accept. When I would tell my son it's time to get off the computer, he would throw a fit. During a session with the psych, we told him that he was allowed to negotiate if he did it in a nice way but that the fit would never get him what he wanted. So now, when I tell him that computer time is over, he says, "Is it OK if I just finish this level of my game? I should be done in 5 minutes." I tell him yes and thank him for asking so nicely. We have nearly abolished the fits and he's learning that nice behavior and requests get him a lot further. Of course, my son just turned 13 so we're a little further along in terms of maturity. Hope this helps!

 

[nyyankeegirl]

I love the term "spirited". I have one of those! He's 6-- the "he's just 4" phase has not ended yet. I'm not sure it ever will with him.....

 

[Leonsmom]

My situation is a little different since my son has special needs (Asperger's Syndrome). But what I learned from his psychologist can apply to managing any child.

When the child starts throwing a fit, you have to resist the urge to yell back. This will only escalate the situation. You also need to resist the urge to talk too much. It's best to use a few well-chosen words to let the child know that you will not give in to the fit. You have to outline consequences with just a few words and be willing to follow through with the consequences (for example, "If you don't stop yelling, you will lose your computer time for today"). Then, don't negotiate or give the behavior any further attention. If the child doesn't respond, be prepared to follow through with the consequence. This will probably result in more screaming, crying, etc. but you can't give in. If you find yourself becoming too engaged, it's time to walk away.

The key is that you can never, ever let the behavior win. That will teach the child that screaming/yelling/crying works to get what they want. The psychologist said the behavior would probably get worse before it gets better when applying this method. The child will try harder to get your attention by increasing the behavior. It's not easy, but you have to wait it out and be consistent. The behavior will eventually decrease as the child realizes that it no longer works.

As you're doing this, it's important to teach the child what alternate behavior you will accept. When I would tell my son it's time to get off the computer, he would throw a fit. During a session with the psych, we told him that he was allowed to negotiate if he did it in a nice way but that the fit would never get him what he wanted. So now, when I tell him that computer time is over, he says, "Is it OK if I just finish this level of my game? I should be done in 5 minutes." I tell him yes and thank him for asking so nicely. We have nearly abolished the fits and he's learning that nice behavior and requests get him a lot further. Of course, my son just turned 13 so we're a little further along in terms of maturity. Hope this helps!

My VERY spirited DS5 is also seeing a therapist, he has very recently been diagnoised with ADHD. Because this is all so new to me, this thread caught my eye. It's nice to know that others are going through simular issues. I completely agree with everything you said. DS's therapist says the same and it seems to be working somewhat. We still have our issues. DS's problems are mostly with impulse control. It is exhausting having to be on top of him all the time. Always trying to stay a few steps ahead of him to try to avoid potential disaster (Like when he stood up on the back of the couch and reached up towards the ceiling in order to try to jump onto the ceiling fan for a ride - i caught him just in time!) My son is my one and only. I wanted more kids and so did DH, but our financial situation has never been good and DH always wanted to put another baby on hold till we could get our heads above water. Now I am pushing 40, dealing with chronic pain of FMS and catching my 5 year old mid air. They say God never gives you more than you can handle, and right now DS is about all I can handle. He can drive me absolutely nuts but I would be lost without him!!!!

 

[Luv Bunnies]

My VERY spirited DS5 is also seeing a therapist, he has very recently been diagnoised with ADHD. Because this is all so new to me, this thread caught my eye. It's nice to know that others are going through simular issues. I completely agree with everything you said. DS's therapist says the same and it seems to be working somewhat. We still have our issues. DS's problems are mostly with impulse control. It is exhausting having to be on top of him all the time. Always trying to stay a few steps ahead of him to try to avoid potential disaster (Like when he stood up on the back of the couch and reached up towards the ceiling in order to try to jump onto the ceiling fan for a ride - i caught him just in time!) My son is my one and only. I wanted more kids and so did DH, but our financial situation has never been good and DH always wanted to put another baby on hold till we could get our heads above water. Now I am pushing 40, dealing with chronic pain of FMS and catching my 5 year old mid air. They say God never gives you more than you can handle, and right now DS is about all I can handle. He can drive me absolutely nuts but I would be lost without him!!!!

Just wanted to say hang in there! Believe it or not, it does get better. My son is so different now than he was at 5. Sometimes I wonder if it's the same kid! The one other day, I drove in to the garage with a load of groceries. My son come running out and started carrying bags into the house. I thought my husband must have told him to help when I got home. But, no, DH said he didn't say a word. The kid actually helped out on his own! He used to yell and refuse to do anything he didn't want to do. Now he's helping without being asked! So, I'm predicting it will get better for you too. Aren't kids amazing?

 

[dreamalittledream]

I am right there with you. I have a "very active" 4 yr old. she can't seem to sit still, does not sleep, "tries" to listen and all I can say is thank goodness she is so cute and makes me laugh 'cause she puts me over the edge some days. We actually had almost the same Walmart trip last week! We were part way through the trip and I had had enough with her behavior and the way she was poking at her sister, so we left.

I am reading all these suggestions and will definitely try some.
the one thing I have done recently is alter her diet. We avoid red dye #40 and high fructose corn syrup. I have seen a real change in her behavior in the past 6 weeks. (there is another thread about HFCS somewhere so I won't get into it here) I just found it seems to work for us. She doesn't have as many drama queen moments and is a bit more even tempered. It has also helped her be able to shut down at night and sleep. I would not have believed it would make a difference until I tried it.

But they do say we'll miss those days when they are grown.

 

[Leonsmom]

Just wanted to say hang in there! Believe it or not, it does get better. My son is so different now than he was at 5. Sometimes I wonder if it's the same kid! The one other day, I drove in to the garage with a load of groceries. My son come running out and started carrying bags into the house. I thought my husband must have told him to help when I got home. But, no, DH said he didn't say a word. The kid actually helped out on his own! He used to yell and refuse to do anything he didn't want to do. Now he's helping without being asked! So, I'm predicting it will get better for you too. Aren't kids amazing?

Thanks!!!

I am right there with you. I have a "very active" 4 yr old. she can't seem to sit still, does not sleep, "tries" to listen and all I can say is thank goodness she is so cute and makes me laugh 'cause she puts me over the edge some days. We actually had almost the same Walmart trip last week! We were part way through the trip and I had had enough with her behavior and the way she was poking at her sister, so we left.

I am reading all these suggestions and will definitely try some.
the one thing I have done recently is alter her diet. We avoid red dye #40 and high fructose corn syrup. I have seen a real change in her behavior in the past 6 weeks. (there is another thread about HFCS somewhere so I won't get into it here) I just found it seems to work for us. She doesn't have as many drama queen moments and is a bit more even tempered. It has also helped her be able to shut down at night and sleep. I would not have believed it would make a difference until I tried it.

But they do say we'll miss those days when they are grown.

I want to look into the diet thing too, but I know it will be so hard to impliment with DS!! I will look for yhe other thread but can you tell me what HFCS stands for? Thanks

 

[Sophie_2003]

HFCS HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP...bad stuff!!!

 

[Dopey Rocks!]

subbing!

I am reading this board with great interest and hope!

Any ideas on how to deal with these type of kids on an airplane and in an airport? My DS is 3.5 and could join a support group with all of yours I am sure!

 

[brymolmom]

subbing!

I am reading this board with great interest and hope!

Any ideas on how to deal with these type of kids on an airplane and in an airport? My DS is 3.5 and could join a support group with all of yours I am sure!

Hi! I have a very high-spirited dd4 and a ds6 who is usually very laid back but has borderline Asperger's so can react badly to some situations.

We have been on planes a lot with them both. My best advice would be to let him know what is coming....We are going on an airplane and these are the 'rules' - then list the rules (stay in seat with belt on, stay quiet, listen to mom and dad, let us know when you have to go potty, etc.) - and also the consequences - whatever your usual form of discipline (take away games, no dessert, go to bed early, or whatever your usual is) - however, in this case I would make it clear he gets the discipline AFTER the plane ride when you are at your destination. As others have said - consistency is key and you can't let him think he can get away with things just because he is on a plane.

Another trick - just distract him away from any behavior. Have a bag-full of stuff for him to do - when he gets bored - pull something else out. Treats work to keep my kids distracted (not my first choice as a parent but my priority on a plane is to be as considerate as possible for other passengers, so i do it) - I bring M&M's and will dole a few out here and there - we make a game/learning opportunity out of it - How many red ones do you have? Now you ate 2 of them, how many red ones are left? I also bring a DVD player - but make sure he gets used to the headphones beforehand. WIth my kids I let them know that the sound can ONLY be heard with the phones so their choices were to wear them or just watch with no sound (again - consideration to the others on board).

 

[sfarmbo]

It is nice to know that there are other "spirited" children out there. We have a 3 yr old dd. She not only is "spirited", but is also vocal. An example. At target she sees a girl with a bull nose ring asks " What is that fing in your nose?" Girl replies " It's a nose ring. Cool isn't it. Do you like it?" DD says "No, it dagusting" Spirited and appinionated.

 

[jlester]

We have a 4 year old who is very "determined" as well. She is a total type A personality and is great when she is on a schedule and knows what is expected of her......needless to say it has been a very long summer, only 2 weeks until school starts.

We also have a 1 year old dd which I think is sometimes part of the strain that our 4yr old dd has. The needs/wants of a 1 yr old are sooo much different than those of a 4 yr old.

We have done sticker boards and had great success....she seems to have gotten bored with that whole system though....so, our newest solution is a red light that we made out of construction paper together and hung up on the fridge. Every morning she starts on green. If for some reason she gets to yellow, that means no dessert that evening. If she is good for the remainder of the day, she can earn her way back to green. However, if the day continues to go downhill, she is put on red. Once on red, there is no going back to yellow or green. Once on red, she must spend the remainder of the day(usually late afternoon before we hit red)/evening in her room. This gives her time to rethink things and just have some quiet time to "reset" for the next day. My dh and I will often go to her room and read or sit with her just so she knows that we still love her and understand that she had a "rough" day.

Good Luck! Thanks to all for your suggestions, we will be trying some out at our house.