OT: Questions For Teachers About Projects

[badblackpug]

This is inspired by another thread where parents were complaining about school projects. I don't have an issue with projects, per se. I think thay can be a good experience. My issue is with the parents who "do" their childrens' projects for them. I refuse to actually do my kids' projects. I will offer suggestions or advice, but will not do the actual work. As a result my kids projects are not as "polished" as some of their classmates. My daughter always gets good grades on her project because I think the teacher is fair and grades on effort and understanding, but my question to teacher is this:

What do you do when you know a project was "done" by a parent, or at the very least the parent had a very heavy hand in "helping?" (I see so many projects that are so obviously above the abilities of the child)

Do these projects tend to score better?

How do you handle the other children who are embarassed about the "quality" of their projects? (you know, the kids who obviously did their own, feeling inferior to the more polished project)

Do you ever confront children or parents about the amount of "help" they received?

My daughter did a project this year on rainforests and conservation. She learned a lot, but her project looked like it was done by a 5th grader (she is a 5th grader) She got an "A" because she put in a lot of effort, and completed all the required tasks, and then some, for the project, but it was not of the "quality" that some of the other kids' projects were. It seemed more childish, less polished, but, in my opinion, age appropriate. A good number of the projects looked like they were done by the parents. I understand that some children are brighter, or more artistic, but some just semed so "over the top."

Thoughts?

 

[Aliceacc]

I'm secondary math, so we don't do many projects. And those that I do assign are ones that most parents wouldn't want to help with.

But as a mom, I can most certainly see your point. I remember one my son did a few years ago on bears. I provided the materials and an idea or two; the entire project was done by his 8 year old hands and looked it.

When I saw the projects I had to laugh-- it was blatently obvious that lots of moms and dads had "helped" a whole lot more than I did.

My son and I were both happy with the grade he recieved, but you've got to wonder about some of those parents.

(Oh, and I once had a kid turn in a paper late... it seems that dad's secretary had gotten busy and hadn't gotten around to typing it on time. What PLANET are these people on???)

 

[Teacher03]

I teach 3rd grade, and I have almost completely stopped doing projects at home because of the situation you have described. At the beginning of the year, I talked to the parents about projects and how I expected the parents to guide their children, but I know what third grade work looks like, and more importantly, I know each child's ability. I pass out a rubric for each project, and one of the criteria is "My work is my own." I received a scrapbook one time that was clearly completed entirely by the parent. The child received a D. Of course the parent argued, I pulled out work the child completed at school to compare, and it was blatantly obvious. The mom still insisted, but I stood firm. I think when the parents do the work, they are sending the message to their child that their work isn't good enough. This year we have done one project at home (with some work completed at school), and I am happy to say that everyone did their own work.

 

[Mkrop]

Not a teacher but a parent. My son is very bright boy but art and crafts is not his strong suit. He can do a book report with no problme, add a diarama to it and man are we in trouble.

Given this is where he is challenged, just like if he was challenged in math, I might create flash cards, I try to guide him in making choices that will attempt to make the project neater, bc I do tell him he needs to take pride in his work, so if he cuts something and he mutilated it, I will make him cut it again. I also have taught him to use tools such as stencils and peel off letters to help make a project more polished. He would definitely just slap something together if left alone and at this age (4th grade) I feel it is my job to teach him to make his project acceptable looking.

Like recently he had to do a biography project on a famous person and write 5accomplishments of their life, this part he knocked out no problem. He typed it all himself (took forever and then Dad showed him how to make the font different colors to add some piazzaz to his project) Ok so far easy project for DS. Now comes the challenging part for HIM, other kids loved the artsy part. Take a carboard box, draw a scene from the life and the make a paper doll or dress a Ken/Barbie doll. He chose Walt Disney. I almost wish he had chosen an athelete bc drawing a baseball diamond or a basketball court would have been easier. I also dont sew so I wasnt sure how we were going to dress Ken in a suit unless he came that way, I couldnt find one. So this is what I suggested he do, the pictures had to be drawn, we found two pictures off the Internet one of Walt walking out of Sleeping Beauty's castle and the statue of Walt and Mickey at the end of Main St. I bought him tracing paper and he traced the pcitures and then colored them on his own. I was so nervous if this was going to be allowed.

Well he got a 100, he did the the work himself with guidance and anal mom would not allow it to go out looking bad. You could tell some kids just slapped it together. This project was about following directions as well and some did not do that, they put the scene on the wrong side of the box etc, so even if it looked good they got points taken off He also used some big words to describe Walt that he found in the book, they had to hang these word in the form of pictures, he kept asking me what innovative meant, as in reference to EPCOT, so I made him go to the dictionary and look it up. So it would appear that mom helped with such a big word, I made sure he could completely explain the defintion bafore it was allowed on the project.

So even though we helped, he did 99% of the project himself so I am not sure how a teacher could tell or not tell who did the project. It can still be polished even if the child does it.

 

[badblackpug]

Yes I can understand it looking polished, even if a child does it. I, too give guidance about how to make things look better or neater, but I don't do the actual work. My child, also, is not artistically inclined, so she also traces, and uses cutouts she printed off the computer. I also understand that some children are better than others at certain things. Some kids may have a larger vocabulary, or be better at math, or art, but I am sure the teacher knows who the students are. I'm talking about projects where it is blatently obvious that the work is far and above the skill level of the child.

There have been instances where this has occured in my daughters' class. She tends to be hard on herself and questions why so and so's project looks so much better, and, in the past, has even had children in the class admit that there mother or father did certain parts of their projects. I always reassure her that, as long as she did her best, I am satisfied, and that her grades are good and that the teacher realizes that she put a lot of effort into her work, and that is all that matters.

 

[daisyduck123]

Hi! 1st grade teacher here

Starting in February, my teammates & I assign monthly projects.
We don't assign grades. We just record in our grade books whether the child did one or not. A "check" for "yes" or a "zero" for "not turned in".

The students always have to give an oral presentation with their monthly projects as well. This ranges from 3 sentences for the shy students to long speeches for the ones that love the "spotlight" .

**Some are obviously done by the parents, some are not. We never confront/ask the parents about them.

 

[Mkrop]

Yes I can understand it looking polished, even if a child does it. I, too give guidance about how to make things look better or neater, but I don't do the actual work. My child, also, is not artistically inclined, so she also traces, and uses cutouts she printed off the computer. I also understand that some children are better than others at certain things. Some kids may have a larger vocabulary, or be better at math, or art, but I am sure the teacher knows who the students are. I'm talking about projects where it is blatently obvious that the work is far and above the skill level of the child.

There have been instances where this has occured in my daughters' class. She tends to be hard on herself and questions why so and so's project looks so much better, and, in the past, has even had children in the class admit that there mother or father did certain parts of their projects. I always reassure her that, as long as she did her best, I am satisfied, and that her grades are good and that the teacher realizes that she put a lot of effort into her work, and that is all that matters.

Sorry I am a little project out this year. There have been sooooo many, I am about to scream so if I seem defensive I dont mean to be.

I also see the opposite extreme of the parent so wanting the child to do it themselves that the project looks bad. The parents brag about that, and I think ok I am all for independence but cant you use it as a teaching moment and have your child learn to make it look nice too.

Plus I will admit right now I am on the defensive, another project DS had recently was to make a travel brouchure of PA. This project was a royal PITA, and were were told to help them speciifcally in the directions but not do it. Well DS and I worked our butts off bc it was a lot of googling which he is not allowed to do alone. Some kids did theirs entirely on the computer, it looked very professional. Some kids cut out two picutures and called it a brochure. It said a collage of pictures which we interpreted as many pictures. So I helped with the googling and finding websites. He wrote everything and cut all the pictures out and pasted them. It turned out great.

Well at GP Day, my MIL looks at it and says" did you did that or did mommy?" well that PO me bc he put A LOT of effort and hours into to have it questioned by her and then cmon dopey do you say something like even if you think it is possible when the teacher is right there. geesh

So I guess I am on the defense about projects right now Sorry I am not sure how I am coming across

 

[disneyjunkie]

I teach 3rd grade, and I have almost completely stopped doing projects at home because of the situation you have described. At the beginning of the year, I talked to the parents about projects and how I expected the parents to guide their children, but I know what third grade work looks like, and more importantly, I know each child's ability. I pass out a rubric for each project, and one of the criteria is "My work is my own." I received a scrapbook one time that was clearly completed entirely by the parent. The child received a D. Of course the parent argued, I pulled out work the child completed at school to compare, and it was blatantly obvious. The mom still insisted, but I stood firm. I think when the parents do the work, they are sending the message to their child that their work isn't good enough. This year we have done one project at home (with some work completed at school), and I am happy to say that everyone did their own work.

You are my hero!

So even though we helped, he did 99% of the project himself so I am not sure how a teacher could tell or not tell who did the project.

You ask the child.

Most will come out and say mom, dad or an older sibling did the work. A few will give you the deer caught in head lights look. A small number will lie.

 

[Mkrop]

You are my hero!



You ask the child.

Most will come out and say mom, dad or an older sibling did the work. A few will give you the deer caught in head lights look. A small number will lie.

Well since DS cant lie whatsoever. It is a good thing he does his own

 

[badblackpug]

Sorry I am a little project out this year. There have been sooooo many, I am about to scream so if I seem defensive I dont mean to be.

I also see the opposite extreme of the parent so wanting the child to do it themselves that the project looks bad. The parents brag about that, and I think ok I am all for independence but cant you use it as a teaching moment and have your child learn to make it look nice too.

Plus I will admit right now I am on the defensive, another project DS had recently was to make a travel brouchure of PA. This project was a royal PITA, and were were told to help them speciifcally in the directions but not do it. Well DS and I worked our butts off bc it was a lot of googling which he is not allowed to do alone. Some kids did theirs entirely on the computer, it looked very professional. Some kids cut out two picutures and called it a brochure. It said a collage of pictures which we interpreted as many pictures. So I helped with the googling and finding websites. He wrote everything and cut all the pictures out and pasted them. It turned out great.

Well at GP Day, my MIL looks at it and says" did you did that or did mommy?" well that PO me bc he put A LOT of effort and hours into to have it questioned by her and then cmon dopey do you say something like even if you think it is possible when the teacher is right there. geesh

So I guess I am on the defense about projects right now Sorry I am not sure how I am coming across

I completely understand. Even if you are not doing the work, the hours spent supervising them and nagging them to get it done are unbelievable. ...and the projects seem so more involved then when we were kids. I remember doing diorama's and book reports...but jeesh these things take so much more time and research, they will be writing textbooks by high school!

 

[Tammysue5]

I agree w/the poster that said teachers can tell if they ask questions.

DS16 was in the HAPP program (High Academic Potential ) from 1st-6th. He loved it (You had to be one of 25 students out of about 400 to remain in through 6th) I loved the program as well...anyway, DS had the wonderful fortune of being able to have Science Fairs..(I think all classes should have them not just these students)

One year he did Mammoths...he was into them! He also just happens to be a wonderful artist so his pictures were drawn by hand (the teacher knew this as she had seen him draw many times) However, there were people that commented on if mom and dad had done the drawings.....(I assured them I AM really good at stick people;;; )

The only thing we assisted him on was the 10 foot paper mache' tusk he wanted sitting next to his project. He got the first spot on the floor because teacher thought it looked so real and like something you would see when you first walk into a museum. What really set the projects apart (meaning those who really did the research and learning on their own vs parents doing all the work) was the questions the judges posed to the kids! I thought that was perfect ...my son did mammoths because that is what he WANTED to do and what he knew everything about.

Oh ,,,I have to say God Bless teachers! They have a tough job and I have the utmost respect for all the wonderful teachers my children have had! (and those that are in the profession.

 

[MM27]

My district actually has a percentage of the final grade that comes from projects, so we are required to do at least one project in each subject, each marking period. I allow the kids to do some at home and some at school and there are some that they do half and half.

You can tell when a parent does the project. I ask the child a lot of questions when they are presenting. The ones that did the project themselves can answer. The ones that had a parent do the project usually can't.

I had a parent that got really nasty with me because I took points off of a written portion of a project. I very calmly explained to her that since her son needed my help reading most of the words, I would prefer she let him do the work next time.

 

[Charleston Princess]

6th, 7th, 8th grade language arts/literature teacher here:

I can't stand projects to be perfectly honest -- they are a pain to explain to the kids what you want and a pain to grade. That being said, I still grit by teeth and do one about every nine weeks. I do think they serve a purpose. When I was a beginning teacher I did a lot more and a lot more were obviously done by parents. Now, I have the kids do them in class, and I ask them a lot of questions while they are presenting. If they can't answer those questions (which should be easy if they did the project), they lose points. That's the only way I can come up with for it to be fair to everyone.

As an aside, I don't understand why parents would want to do their children's projects -- doing them once during their own school career should have been enough .

 

[Tammysue5]

I like the idea of some projects being done in the classrooms. DD8 and DD6 just finished their Young Authors stories....DD8 is in 3rd grade and her teacher had them do most all of the work at school. DD8 only brought it home once (the very last weekend to tweak it and finish up the illustrations) I loved reading and seeing all her hard work. You could definately tell it was written by a 8 yr old girl...the topic/Title: My sleepover at Disney!

DD6 is in Kindergarten.....her story was completely worked on at home. We did a little bit every few days. She did all the coloring.... story write up...our teachers even ask that we have the child write the book w/the words the way the kids spell them. They are kindergarten teachers and said they would be able to figure out what the kids tried to spell. I thought that was great.

DD6 first wrote ideas, then a rough draft...very rough... and then she wrote the final copy. She did fairly well as she knows all her sight words. (Like, Look, my, she, said...things like that) I enjoyed watching her say the word out and spell it like she thought it was spelled. Her story/title: My friend the Yehti (Or YETE as she spelled it) As you might guess, she is talking about the Yehti from EE..... again you could tell it was a story that a 6yr old girl would write.... it involved a sad Yehti...(everyone likes Mickey and the princesses) and a crying Yehti in her hotel room taking a bubble bath!

I wonder why parents feel the need to do the work for the kids.... I could never come up w/the funny ideas my kids do. Let them be creative.

Oh by the way...did I mention that my DDs LOVE Disney!