OT, Psychological testing for little ones?

[Snoopymom]

You all were so friendly and understanding with Luv2trav's late talker question, I thought I'd ask this here, and I'll try to be brief.

My foster-to-adopt ds has been with us for 3 years and we have had some security, attachment, independence and control issues that stem from his first two years of having to fend for himself, but after three years, we thought all was good, we've bonded, he's a smart kid, got along well at preschool, no behaviors we couldn't handle, until....he started Kindergarten.

I expected that there would be an adjustment, and during the first two weeks, he was wetting the bed, had trouble paying attention, wasn't eating his lunch, etc.

He has gotten better about those things and stopped wetting the bed, but now we're in the 7th week and he has been acting very controlling with his classmates...pushing in line, grabbing things out of their hands, just constantly pokes and pulls at them to get them to do what the teacher says or to do what he thinks they should be doing.

No matter how much we explain that he can't touch other kids, punish, threaten, reward, sticker chart, you name it, nothing is working. He is also being stubborn about going potty during potty breaks, and getting his work done which is another type of controlling behavior.

His teacher has been incredibly understanding and she says she's glad that we're on the same page, and that we agree with her about being tough on him, etc, but what worries me is we're not seeing any improvement even though he appears to be really trying and talks about controlling himself but then when you ask what happened, he says he doesn't know.

He'll have a few good days and he'll be excited and proud of himself, and I'll start to feel relieved, wonder if it's boys being boys stuff, or if something finally clicked, and then we'll have a few bad days...

Does anyone have any experience with having children this young evaluated? He tested normal when he was about 3 yrs old, but it was mostly developmentally based. What actually would a psychologist do during therapy with a 5 year old? Will they just recommend more discipline and different methods? (Dh is especially skeptical.)

After a few days of getting recommendations, I finally found a therapist, and I'm waiting for her to return my call. What should I look for, what specific questions should I ask? I'd appreciate any information. (I could ask this on a foster parents board, but most are dealing with much more extreme problems, so I know I'd either get ignored or over the top advice and info.

Boy, this is hard, thanks so much for listening!

 

[Brian Noble]

I really feel for you!

It seems to me that seven weeks, while it is really a looong time for you, may not be a long time in the grand scheme of dealing with these kids of behaviors. Even more moderate behaviors may take a very long time to correct, and even for kids without the history that your son has. For example, my daughter has a couple of bad school time habits that she developed last year in first grade---cutting corners doing her work, and being very exclusionary with her little clique of friends to the point of distracting others in class. We're now in second grade, and still working on both of these things. Some days are better, others not so much.

Of course, when we ask her about her day, she doesn't remember any salient details either.

It sounds like you have a good working relationship with the teacher, and that's more than half the battle. If you've decided a meeting with a therapist will really help you, that's great, but for me you could probably defer that meeting for a while longer to see how things develop, particularly if you can sense those "good days" become more in number relative to the "bad days."

 

[meandtheguys2]

Are you thinking school counselor or private?

I used to do both. Not big on either!! What my DB did with his fosters, that sadly in the end we didn't get to keep in the family, was found a counselor who was willing to work primarily with the girls, but give insight and help as a family unit too. They are christian, so it helped to work with someone on the same page. For others the issue might be wanting someone doing cognitive rather than emotional counseling. And not focussing on behavioral, if you all have had enough of that in the rest of the process! (Although a good behavioral program might help get you past this rough patch.)

I don't know if this helps a lot. But much of what goes on with an inschool counselor is the counselor plays games with the kid, chats a bit and 20 mins. later they are back in the classroom. (This is what I found in OUR district, at least.) I hope other districts are more useful than that!

It sounds like you are doing an awesome job for your guy. Foster parents are akin to angels, IMO!

 

[newtowdw1]

Sorry you're sad and frustrated. I'm sure your issues are more intense than what I've been dealing with, but here are a few suggestions from a teacher and mom to two controllers.

1. Is he a young five or an old five? This may be developmental. DS will be 5 in two weeks and we decided before he was born that he wouldn't attend K his first year eligible. We've seen too many boys too immature for high school because they went to school too early.

2. DD and DS also get frustrated with kids who don't do as THEY think they should. DD in third grade seems to be doing better. I'm sure she'll always be bossy. You may have to let him grow out of his controlling ways.

3.Your DS has his own personality. I know DH and I spend time saying, "Oh, that's totally YOU!" Our friends see DD and DS's controlling personalities in ME! Imagine! You can't do that as he's a foster/adopted, and I imagine that you're imagining the worst. But DH and I've decided that kids are born with their own personalities and as parents we can only impose so much order on them. NOT that you should back off, but just realize that there may be limitaions! (BTW, everyone loves my kids. But they are demanding of themselves and others. I'm sure it's the same for your son.)

4. Something I've found successful with kids who were not doing exactly what I wanted, whether great big high school boys, or my little primary churchmice, is to give him/her a special job. Whether sharpening pencils, clapping erasers, or feeding the guinea pig, he needs to feel important. No matter what he's done that day. No matter if it's a 'good' day or 'bad' day. I have my helpers. I count on them to do their job. That job is HIS responsibility, no matter what. This might give more of a feeling of control.

5. I'd also start a responsibility chart with him. This works very well for DD. You might not see immediate improvement, but keep at it. Seven weeks isn't so very long. Do the chart every night together and put pennies in a jar for every check mark he gets. He'll see the jar filling up every night, even if he doesn't get all the checks every night, he'll get at least one or two (rig it so he will!).

6. Sorry so long, but I have 'difficult' children. Even Grandma says so!
I feel your pain. We've resisted counseling for DD8, simply out of stubborness.

7. OH one last thing. Make sure he's getting enough physical exercise. Let him burn off some of that frustration and energy.

 

[HopperFan]

I see you are in Georgia. Have you checked out the Marcus Institute in Atlanta. They do behavior pysch with children only. They handle a wide spectrum, from kids who must go to school there to out-patient that only need a short term therapy regimen. I have used them and find the staff there to be incredible. www.marcus.org

ps My school district actually paid for testing done by them. I felt they were much better qualified than the school districts psych.

 

[Snoopymom]

Wow, I've read each of your responses several times. I can't tell you all how much I appreciate it. Maybe because he's foster/adopted, family and friends look at us like they're afraid to say the wrong thing or we're just crazy when we try to talk to them, LOL.

Meandtheguys, I'm thinking private, family type. When we met with his teacher, she did say that she took him to the school counselor for the potty problem, and he just sat on her lap and cried, but visiting her regulary was not mentioned, and to be honest, I'm not too comfortable with that. (Maybe, I have my own control issues, LOL.)

I like your suggestion of cognitive rather than behavior, more from the root than the reaction, so we definitely would need some guidance there. I'm sorry for your DB and family. We got into fostering to adopt only, so I can't imagine. They are the true angels!

Newtowdw1, his birthday is in late June, so he is a young 5, and I have been thinking about that. I'm from the optional half day Kindergarten generation, so I think 8 hours is a long time, especially for a very energetic, rather ride his bike, catch a frog type of kid. I find myself saying, "why can't he just be a kid" A LOT.

As for having his own personality...that's been interesting and fun. He's a lot like dh, but we're complete opposites. I always try to look at it positively, he's actually the type of outgoing happy person I wish I was more like, LOL, so thanks, it's nice to hear that biological parents have some of the same thoughts.

Love the special job/ responsibility ideas! I do feel like we're squashing his self esteem with the endless discussions about the behavior chart that gets sent home each night, so a jar of pennies sure would be a nice change and he loves to help with dinner, setting the table, etc. so that could be broken down into several "rigged" jobs.

Brian Noble, I haven't thought about 7 weeks as in enough time to change a behavior, just in that I think his teacher has got to be getting a little impatient, LOL. Thanks for putting that into perspective. "Salient", the perfect word to describe our afternoon conversations, LOL. We are resistant to therapy because the good days and bad days are about half and half right now, and even on the bad days it's hard to determine how bad or how normal his behavior was. As for the cliques, his teacher did mention that she's having a problem with that with the girls in the class, so I think that's pretty common, just didn't realize it started so early.

I just got off the phone with a therapist and made an appointment for a few weeks from now to meet with her, just dh and I to start with, so I'm going to try and keep an open mind, see what she recommends before commiting to anything. I'll let you know how it goes.

Thank you all so much for the support, ideas and listening. It means the world!

 

[Brian Noble]

I totally sympathize with your concern for your son's teacher, but if s/he is still willing to work with you in a positive way, then s/he can't be that frustrated yet! Based on my experience watching my kids' K teacher (they have/had the same one), K teachers are way, way underpaid, and have possibly the toughest job in the school.

Keep up the good work with your son, and I'm sure things will improve before you know it!

 

[DisneyCrazyX5]

Does he have to be in school this year? Could you just pull him out and wait for a year? My twins sons are 5 (April 7 birthday) and we are waiting a year. We also decided before they were ever born -
our reasons were -
twins,
boys
and a late spring birthday
( they were due in May and were a month early).

I was told academically they were ready for school when I had them tested for speech. I knew they needed time to muture and settle down a bit.

 

[goodferry]

I think I would talk to your pediatrician first off. Our son has a learning disability and that's where we started and they pointed us down the right road. They thought that his behavioral issues were normal five year old boy issues, and that the cognitive difficulties may be fueling the behavioral ones. If they don't know what they are supposed to be doing in class, it's hard to pay attention and it's easy to get distracted.

We ended up keeping Zack home until he was six, and once he was in Kindergarten, we used the behavioral responibility incentives others mentioned until the end of the year. In both pre-school and Kindergarten we used a daily journal with star stickers that the teacher could use. He would get a star for each area where he did well, plus there was room for the teacher to write comments. If he got a certain amount of stars in a week, he earned treats, like getting to pick a movie to rent or going for a walk with just mom.

Then we had him assessed by the school psychologist and they determined what his learning disability was. Unfortunately, even if you know he needs help, most school districts won't start the process of getting him help with an assessment until the end of Kindergarten at the earliest. Good luck, it's a difficult and emotionally draining process, especially in the begining, but once they get on track, it's worth it!

 

[Snoopymom]

Hopperfan, I contacted the Marcus Institute when we had to have his first evaluation done for CPS, but we chose someone closer to our side of town. I've heard great things about them. I'll keep them in mind. I'm glad they were able to help you. Thanks.

Disneycrazy and Goodferry, In our area, we're encouraged to put them into Kindergarten and then they are assessed for first grade. If it's determined they're not ready for 1st grade, they have a program called Readiness. The parents make the final decision, but I'm not a fan. They have to fill the classes, so it's based on percentages influenced by their gender and birthday, and then there's the stigma attached to it that the children are aware of. This has been in the back of my mind, and I'm afraid we will be dealing with that decision next summer. We're also considering putting him into the private Kindergarten that is offered at the church run preschool he went to...a lot to think about.

Brian Noble, I couldn't agree with you more. I had no idea there was so much pressure on Kindergarten teachers with standards and student's skills, let alone dealing with behavior and socializing. We're very fortunate, ds's is straight forward, easy to talk to and just awesome, and she has experience with teaching children with extreme behavior problems, so I have tons of confidence in her. If we didn't, then we probably would have already put him into the private Kindergarten.

Thank you all so much!