OT: pre-school or Kindergarten? Can't decide.

We did the extra year of preschool for our DS. He is in kindergarten this year & doing great. His birthday is September 23rd (cutoff 9/30) so we put him in a 4 day class for older 4 year olds at his preschool for the extra year. He would have been fine with the academics, but he needed the extra year socially. It's only his first year at elementary school, but we don't regret it at all!
 
Opinions please, as I just cannot decide what to do.

DS will be 5 on August 30. The cut-off to start school here is Sept 1, so he's able to start kindergarten. 2 out of our 3 kids already in school have late birthdays and are the youngest in their classes....and they are doing just fine.

DS does fine academically in that he can already read, and knows all the basic pre-k requirements such as colors, shapes, his phone number, letters, numbers, etc.

The problem is that he just isn't "into" it. His teacher says she has to bribe him to do any sort of "work" (like math, writing, reading, etc), and even then he won't often do it....he'll just sit there and look at it. He's very stubborn (like his grandma, LOL), and if he doesn't feel like doing it, he won't. He's only 4, so I don't see a big problem with this, and don't think he needs to be "pushed" at this point since he "knows" the material. His teachers agrees with me on that. The pre-school he attends now is a Montessori one, and I think he needs a change. Since he's not self-motivated, I am not sure Montessori is a perfect fit for him like it was for my older kids.

A little voice inside my head thinks I should keep him in pre-school another year, but I am afraid he will be really bored. I've been interviewing other schools, and they tell me how they focus on one letter a week, etc, and I just don't see DS doing that since he's already reading, kwim?

He does need a lot of practice with his handwriting, but he refuses to do it. He's just not interested in that either. He does not like to color or draw much either.

I am wondering if he would do better with the structured environment of kindergarten (versus the Montessori), or if he just needs another year to mature a bit. I even hate having to make this decision now, because the next school year is another 6 months away, and alot can change between now and then. On the other hand, if he's soo uninterested in school, he'll be miserable and feel pushed, so maybe allowing him to be a "kid" another year in pre-school would be a good thing.

I don't know, I am so conflicted, and haven't had this issue with my other kids. My parents and Dh are telling me to send him to K, with the idea of pulling him out if he's not doing well. I am just not too crazy about the pre-school options right now, but I will keep searching....

Can anyone help me shed some light on this? I realize that every child is different, but I would appreciate hearing your thoughts and/or experiences. TIA


Okay- please understand that I am not trying to be a witch but the lines bolded jumped out at me. I don't think your child has a maturity problem. I think he has learned that if he doesn't feel like doing something he doesn't have to. IMO that is allowing him to be disrespectful to the teacher. School isn't always about what you feel like doing at the moment. You have to learn and you are not in charge. Sometimes you're the bandleader and sometimes you are in the band. I get what it is like when your child already knows the work etc. and doesn't want to be bothered but as a parent imo by not insisting that they follow the class etc. you are just allowing rude behavior. Another year out of school will not fix that if you accept that behavior. If he hates writing then find a way to make it fun. The teacher should be giving you suggestions. I personally would not hold him back. Some kids need more structure than others and based on what you have written it seems like if he can get away with doing as little as possible then that is what he will do. It's all up to what you as the parent are okay with. Keep in mind that there are also many teachers that will not tell you that you need to be stricter with your child. It puts them in an awkward position.
Please understand that I am not bashing you as a parent at all. I think it is great that you are trying to find out the best thing to do. I just don't think that kids usually need to be held back. I have also seen kids that the parents called "immature" when really they were never really expected to behave any other way. Good luck with your decision.
 
Okay- please understand that I am not trying to be a witch but the lines bolded jumped out at me. I don't think your child has a maturity problem. I think he has learned that if he doesn't feel like doing something he doesn't have to. IMO that is allowing him to be disrespectful to the teacher. School isn't always about what you feel like doing at the moment. You have to learn and you are not in charge. Sometimes you're the bandleader and sometimes you are in the band. I get what it is like when your child already knows the work etc. and doesn't want to be bothered but as a parent imo by not insisting that they follow the class etc. you are just allowing rude behavior. Another year out of school will not fix that if you accept that behavior. If he hates writing then find a way to make it fun. The teacher should be giving you suggestions. I personally would not hold him back. Some kids need more structure than others and based on what you have written it seems like if he can get away with doing as little as possible then that is what he will do. It's all up to what you as the parent are okay with. Keep in mind that there are also many teachers that will not tell you that you need to be stricter with your child. It puts them in an awkward position.
Please understand that I am not bashing you as a parent at all. I think it is great that you are trying to find out the best thing to do. I just don't think that kids usually need to be held back. I have also seen kids that the parents called "immature" when really they were never really expected to behave any other way. Good luck with your decision.

I kind of agree with Mouse House Mama here.

DS7 is going through some of this in first grade. He hates to color and will avoid it at all costs. Teacher will tell him he needs to color his project, he says he doesnt like to color. She told him I am not asking you I am telling you, it needs to be colored.

I had a long talk with him about listening to his teacher and doing what she asked. While at school, she and his other teachers are the boss. I aked him if he thought mommy like to wash dishes or do laundry and he said no, but I told him I had to do them anyway, just like he needs to color. We have seen some improvement.

He also likes to get his friends to "help" him. He knows how to find pg 60 in his Math book but he will totally be lzay and let his friends help, until the teacher finally put her foot down and told him to do it.

DS7 is the youngest and he also had some physical(dexterity) issues so we helped with things for him for too long, now he needs to do for himself, and he can just needs that push and structure.
 
I would do another year of preschool. It seems like EVERYONE around here keeps summer kids out a year. I it like an epidemic. It is a lot easier being the oldest than the youngest. My parents started me in K when I was 4. I was 17 when I went to college. I could not go out to a lot of places with college friends. Even in HS, I could not drive, date and do other things like my friends.

Look at it on both ends. He has more time to get ready for K AND he will have another year at home to mature before he leaves for college when he graduates.

My youngest has a b-day of 9/8 and misses the cutoff by 7 days. At 1st it bothered me because I know she is "ready", but the thought of having one my year before my baby leaves the nest for the real world makes me warm and fuzzy. ( We will see if I still feel that way when she is a teenager driving me crazy! :rotfl2:)
 

Okay- please understand that I am not trying to be a witch but the lines bolded jumped out at me. I don't think your child has a maturity problem. I think he has learned that if he doesn't feel like doing something he doesn't have to. IMO that is allowing him to be disrespectful to the teacher. School isn't always about what you feel like doing at the moment. You have to learn and you are not in charge. Sometimes you're the bandleader and sometimes you are in the band. I get what it is like when your child already knows the work etc. and doesn't want to be bothered but as a parent imo by not insisting that they follow the class etc. you are just allowing rude behavior. Another year out of school will not fix that if you accept that behavior. If he hates writing then find a way to make it fun. The teacher should be giving you suggestions. I personally would not hold him back. Some kids need more structure than others and based on what you have written it seems like if he can get away with doing as little as possible then that is what he will do. It's all up to what you as the parent are okay with. Keep in mind that there are also many teachers that will not tell you that you need to be stricter with your child. It puts them in an awkward position.
Please understand that I am not bashing you as a parent at all. I think it is great that you are trying to find out the best thing to do. I just don't think that kids usually need to be held back. I have also seen kids that the parents called "immature" when really they were never really expected to behave any other way. Good luck with your decision.

Wow. This is pretty much word for word what I was going to say. I don't know what else I can add except that I agree 100%.
 
Okay- please understand that I am not trying to be a witch but the lines bolded jumped out at me. I don't think your child has a maturity problem. I think he has learned that if he doesn't feel like doing something he doesn't have to. IMO that is allowing him to be disrespectful to the teacher. School isn't always about what you feel like doing at the moment. You have to learn and you are not in charge. Sometimes you're the bandleader and sometimes you are in the band. I get what it is like when your child already knows the work etc. and doesn't want to be bothered but as a parent imo by not insisting that they follow the class etc. you are just allowing rude behavior. Another year out of school will not fix that if you accept that behavior. If he hates writing then find a way to make it fun. The teacher should be giving you suggestions. I personally would not hold him back. Some kids need more structure than others and based on what you have written it seems like if he can get away with doing as little as possible then that is what he will do. It's all up to what you as the parent are okay with. Keep in mind that there are also many teachers that will not tell you that you need to be stricter with your child. It puts them in an awkward position.
Please understand that I am not bashing you as a parent at all. I think it is great that you are trying to find out the best thing to do. I just don't think that kids usually need to be held back. I have also seen kids that the parents called "immature" when really they were never really expected to behave any other way. Good luck with your decision.


No, I agree with you. I think that part of the "issue" is that he's in a Montessori program right now. If you are familiar with the Montessori method, you know that they provide an unstructured environment and let the kids choose their activities. They feel that by letting the kids do things they desire, they will develop a love of learning and will become self motivated. It was a great fit for my older 3 boys, but I don't think it's working for this ds. Like you said, he's figured out he can get away with things. Either way, he won't be returning to the Montessori pre-school, because I thnk he needs a different environment altogether. I think the structure of K will actually be good for him.

After re-reading the statements you bolded, I am not sure I said what I meant.....When I said I didn't have a problem with it, I meant that I don't have a problem with his progress and where he is at. For example, he's working on the 100 board, which means he needs to write his #'s up to 100. He's at 40 right now, which I think is fair and adequate for a 4 yr old. His teacher has very high expectations, and feels he's capable of doing more. I agree that he should be respectful to his teachers, etc, and I've talked to him about this. I just don't think he really needs to be "pushed", in this example, to write his #'s up to 100 in pre-k.
 
How does he feel about it? Do you talk with him about Kindergarten at all?

My DD will be 5 on July 15th... not quite as young.... but close. Here the cutoff is October 15th... so she won't be the youngest by far.

She is so ready and excited for it ~ that she can hardly stand herself.

There is also the option of keeping him in preschool another year and then going to first grade. Kindergarten is not mandatory.
 
My son sounds nearly identical to yours! He's an August birthday as well and our cutoff is also September 1. He went to Montessori for 3 years before starting Kindergarten and was also very, very stubborn about not wanting to do "work", not pushing himself, etc. He started Kindergarten at barely 5. The first day of class (orientation with the parents), I was really worried about how he was going to adjust to this and how they were going to get him to sit and do work at a table, etc.

We walked into the class for the first day of Kindergarten (at just barely 5) and the teacher wanted the kids to all color a little stick figure shape of a kid, write their name on it, cut it out, and hang it on a board. In my mind, I was thinking, "Oh no... this is going to be bad", LOL. To my surprise, every little girl sat down and immediately started coloring... and every little boy resisted while their parents gave them threatening, whispery lectures of, "You WILL sit down and color that sheet right now!" It was awesomely reassuring, LOL.

Anywho, there were some adjustment ups and downs the first few weeks. They put him in a special Title I reading group because they thought he didn't know any of his letters because he told the reading specialist he didn't - they pulled him into the hall and he thought he was missing free play, so he just said he didn't know any of the questions she asked. We had to have several lessons/lectures on when school people ask you questions, it's called a "test", and you HAVE to answer to the best of your ability. There were moments when you could tell that he was younger than some of the other kids, but it was never a huge deal.

Now, we're almost done with 1st grade and it's totally fine. Completely and totally fine. I don't regret sending him one bit. Honestly, as much as I loved his Montessori, I think his personality (strong-willed, stubborn, etc.) needed to move on to a more strict and less child-driven environment.

(And I also have concerns about having a 18 year old still in high school... so I think it's better for him to be young now then old later, LOL)
 
My son sounds nearly identical to yours! He's an August birthday as well and our cutoff is also September 1. He went to Montessori for 3 years before starting Kindergarten and was also very, very stubborn about not wanting to do "work", not pushing himself, etc. He started Kindergarten at barely 5. The first day of class (orientation with the parents), I was really worried about how he was going to adjust to this and how they were going to get him to sit and do work at a table, etc.

We walked into the class for the first day of Kindergarten (at just barely 5) and the teacher wanted the kids to all color a little stick figure shape of a kid, write their name on it, cut it out, and hang it on a board. In my mind, I was thinking, "Oh no... this is going to be bad", LOL. To my surprise, every little girl sat down and immediately started coloring... and every little boy resisted while their parents gave them threatening, whispery lectures of, "You WILL sit down and color that sheet right now!" It was awesomely reassuring, LOL.

Anywho, there were some adjustment ups and downs the first few weeks. They put him in a special Title I reading group because they thought he didn't know any of his letters because he told the reading specialist he didn't - they pulled him into the hall and he thought he was missing free play, so he just said he didn't know any of the questions she asked. We had to have several lessons/lectures on when school people ask you questions, it's called a "test", and you HAVE to answer to the best of your ability. There were moments when you could tell that he was younger than some of the other kids, but it was never a huge deal.

Now, we're almost done with 1st grade and it's totally fine. Completely and totally fine. I don't regret sending him one bit. Honestly, as much as I loved his Montessori, I think his personality (strong-willed, stubborn, etc.) needed to move on to a more strict and less child-driven environment.

(And I also have concerns about having a 18 year old still in high school... so I think it's better for him to be young now then old later, LOL)


I feel so much better after reading your post! Thank you for taking the time to reply! I see that you are near Chicago. I am in a SW burb!!
 
Primary ed. teacher for 32 years, and as previously stated never had a parent regret holding a child back in pre-k, saw several sorry they had to be retained in Kindergarten, and watched the maturity gap widen by fourth grade. Give him an extra year IMHO.
 
most other people in your area do? Here the cutoff is Dec 1, but my son with a July birthday has been one of the youngest in most of his classes. :confused: Everyone seems to hold their kids just because they can.. not really fair, but it is what it is.

I had to laugh recently as my middle daughter has a May birthday and she was sent on time. I met a mother who held her March birthday child from starting school so he is turning 8 in the first grade when my youngest in first grade just turned 7 in January. I feel this child being held back has a lot to do with sports too. Really stinks in leagues where kids play by grade rather than age.

OP, I would send him as he will probably mature more and if you wait he will be even more bored.
 
Okay- please understand that I am not trying to be a witch but the lines bolded jumped out at me. I don't think your child has a maturity problem. I think he has learned that if he doesn't feel like doing something he doesn't have to. IMO that is allowing him to be disrespectful to the teacher. School isn't always about what you feel like doing at the moment. You have to learn and you are not in charge. Sometimes you're the bandleader and sometimes you are in the band. I get what it is like when your child already knows the work etc. and doesn't want to be bothered but as a parent imo by not insisting that they follow the class etc. you are just allowing rude behavior. Another year out of school will not fix that if you accept that behavior. If he hates writing then find a way to make it fun. The teacher should be giving you suggestions. I personally would not hold him back. Some kids need more structure than others and based on what you have written it seems like if he can get away with doing as little as possible then that is what he will do. It's all up to what you as the parent are okay with. Keep in mind that there are also many teachers that will not tell you that you need to be stricter with your child. It puts them in an awkward position.
Please understand that I am not bashing you as a parent at all. I think it is great that you are trying to find out the best thing to do. I just don't think that kids usually need to be held back. I have also seen kids that the parents called "immature" when really they were never really expected to behave any other way. Good luck with your decision.

I have to strongly disagree here! The inability to focus and complete work IS often a sign of immaturity. I am a school counselor who has seen lots of kids struggle in kindergarten and then do well in first grade, with the only difference being that thier little brains are now wired to sustain focus for some period of time.

If you go into any K classroom, you will see girls sitting at tables quietly doing work, and boys... not so much. Is this because all of the boys have parents who let them get away with stuff, and the girls have parents who make them tow the line? Or is it because boys mature more slowly and are not yet capable of sitting still and paying attention to paper for long periods? Hmmmm.....

Please be aware that a reluctance to do fine motor tasks like writing or coloring could also be a learning disability down the road. When he was younger, making my own DS13 write was like pulling teeth. My husband subscribed to the philosophy of Mouse House Momma above, and they fought major, teary battles over his "laziness". Then we learned that he had a diagnosed learning disability, and that all of the "insisting" and "strictness" in the world would not fix that. Proper educational intervention did.

As for whether you should send your DS to K or preschool: have you made an appointment with the principal at your elementary school, or the lead K teacher there? Either of them would be able to give you valuable input into your particular situation.
 
I have to strongly disagree here! The inability to focus and complete work IS often a sign of immaturity. I am a school counselor who has seen lots of kids struggle in kindergarten and then do well in first grade, with the only difference being that thier little brains are now wired to sustain focus for some period of time.

If you go into any K classroom, you will see girls sitting at tables quietly doing work, and boys... not so much. Is this because all of the boys have parents who let them get away with stuff, and the girls have parents who make them tow the line? Or is it because boys mature more slowly and are not yet capable of sitting still and paying attention to paper for long periods? Hmmmm.....

Please be aware that a reluctance to do fine motor tasks like writing or coloring could also be a learning disability down the road. When he was younger, making my own DS13 write was like pulling teeth. My husband subscribed to the philosophy of Mouse House Momma above, and they fought major, teary battles over his "laziness". Then we learned that he had a diagnosed learning disability, and that all of the "insisting" and "strictness" in the world would not fix that. Proper educational intervention did.

As for whether you should send your DS to K or preschool: have you made an appointment with the principal at your elementary school, or the lead K teacher there? Either of them would be able to give you valuable input into your particular situation.


I have to say that something in your post really irked me. I am so tired of boys being labeled if they don't sit still etc. I have boys and I have girls. They all have different personalities. I also volunteer a lot at school so I do get to observe the classrooms. I think making a sweeping statement like that is wrong. In fact, I have seen mostly girls who are worse at some of those skills. Of course every child is different and that is my point. It is not simply a gender issue. Sorry but that is my pet peeve.
As for the whole laziness/learning disability thing. Well, if the child is in school with a teacher who is trained to look for such things then instead of bribing the kid to do work they can suggest to the parents to have the child tested. This way if there is a real dx then at least the child can get the proper help so he/she can succeed. Which is why I said that the teacher should be giving them ideas on how to help their child.
The reason I responded the way that I did was not because the child had problems but was because the OP and teacher were okay with the child not doing the work if they didn't feel like it since they already knew it. Sorry to say but that is behavioral. Accepting that behavior is imo allowing rudeness. If a child genuinely had a problem with something that is one thing. If a child just refuses to do the work because they don't feel like it then that is entirely different. A child doesn't get to decide how the classroom is run. If coloring is at 9:00 and blocks are at 10:00 then that is how it is. The child doesn't get to say "Well, I don't want to color so I am going to play blocks instead." The teacher is in charge of the classroom. The child needs to follow the rules. I have seen plenty of kids like this where the parents make an excuse for poor behavior (not saying the OP is) and they go on and on about just how smart their kid is ad nauseum. The reality is the kid runs the show in their home and is no smarter than any other kid except that they are never told no. That is not creatitivity. That is brattiness.
 
I have to strongly disagree here! The inability to focus and complete work IS often a sign of immaturity. I am a school counselor who has seen lots of kids struggle in kindergarten and then do well in first grade, with the only difference being that thier little brains are now wired to sustain focus for some period of time.

If you go into any K classroom, you will see girls sitting at tables quietly doing work, and boys... not so much. Is this because all of the boys have parents who let them get away with stuff, and the girls have parents who make them tow the line? Or is it because boys mature more slowly and are not yet capable of sitting still and paying attention to paper for long periods? Hmmmm.....

Please be aware that a reluctance to do fine motor tasks like writing or coloring could also be a learning disability down the road. When he was younger, making my own DS13 write was like pulling teeth. My husband subscribed to the philosophy of Mouse House Momma above, and they fought major, teary battles over his "laziness". Then we learned that he had a diagnosed learning disability, and that all of the "insisting" and "strictness" in the world would not fix that. Proper educational intervention did.

As for whether you should send your DS to K or preschool: have you made an appointment with the principal at your elementary school, or the lead K teacher there? Either of them would be able to give you valuable input into your particular situation.

I personally also think the "boys don't sit still" bit is garbage. It is no more than an excuse for bad behavior. Any child is only gonig to perform up to the expectations placed on them. If we don't expect boys to sit still and do their work, they won't. It is about the expectations maintained in the classroom and at home. Children need structure and authority figures who expect them to behave, and to do what is asked of them. I have taught K and been in many K classes including my DD's. I expected all of my children regardless of gender to follow the same standards, and by and large they did. I had just as many wild girls as boys who had to be taught to calm down and foucs, and that is what it takes. A good teacher who will take the time to sit down with the child and model acceptable behavior, and hold the child accountable. Classroom behavior is a learned skill, and perschool teachers have to be willing to work with children to establish it. Yes. there are exception to this. Children with learning disabilities, ADHD, and a host of other things that make learning difficult, but those things are almost impossible to find if there is never and expectation placed on the child in the first place.
 
Last year in my son's pre-k class where I volunteered frequently, there was a girl whose parents had decided to keep her in pre-k another year. She was a sweet girl but so bored that she tended to be the one who acted out the most.

This year in his k class his teacher holds each of them accountable and overall they all seem to be doing quite well regardless of gender. I get a detail from him of the star-turners (not a good thing) every day.
 
I personally also think the "boys don't sit still" bit is garbage. It is no more than an excuse for bad behavior. Any child is only gonig to perform up to the expectations placed on them. If we don't expect boys to sit still and do their work, they won't. It is about the expectations maintained in the classroom and at home. Children need structure and authority figures who expect them to behave, and to do what is asked of them. I have taught K and been in many K classes including my DD's. I expected all of my children regardless of gender to follow the same standards, and by and large they did. I had just as many wild girls as boys who had to be taught to calm down and foucs, and that is what it takes. A good teacher who will take the time to sit down with the child and model acceptable behavior, and hold the child accountable. Classroom behavior is a learned skill, and perschool teachers have to be willing to work with children to establish it. Yes. there are exception to this. Children with learning disabilities, ADHD, and a host of other things that make learning difficult, but those things are almost impossible to find if there is never and expectation placed on the child in the first place.

Thank you!:worship::thumbsup2

You said this so much better than me. I 110% agree with you.:thumbsup2:thumbsup2
 
I have to strongly disagree here! The inability to focus and complete work IS often a sign of immaturity. I am a school counselor who has seen lots of kids struggle in kindergarten and then do well in first grade, with the only difference being that thier little brains are now wired to sustain focus for some period of time.

If you go into any K classroom, you will see girls sitting at tables quietly doing work, and boys... not so much. Is this because all of the boys have parents who let them get away with stuff, and the girls have parents who make them tow the line? Or is it because boys mature more slowly and are not yet capable of sitting still and paying attention to paper for long periods? Hmmmm.....

Please be aware that a reluctance to do fine motor tasks like writing or coloring could also be a learning disability down the road. When he was younger, making my own DS13 write was like pulling teeth. My husband subscribed to the philosophy of Mouse House Momma above, and they fought major, teary battles over his "laziness". Then we learned that he had a diagnosed learning disability, and that all of the "insisting" and "strictness" in the world would not fix that. Proper educational intervention did.

As for whether you should send your DS to K or preschool: have you made an appointment with the principal at your elementary school, or the lead K teacher there? Either of them would be able to give you valuable input into your particular situation.

So because of a learning disability they should not behave or do what is asked of them?:confused3

Sometimes kids are just lazy. (not saying any of this is what is going on with OP's child) and need to be kept on task and/or motivated to get the project done.


I too in volunteering have seen just as many girls as well as boys on the immature side from a behavior standpoint.

I used my DS7 as an example in my last post, even though he has a documented OT issue (a 504) which makes coloring a challenge, and even though he is being evaluated for ADD, I still expect him to follow the rules. If the teacher says color he needs to color. Do I want the teacher to be understanding of his issues and patient with him, YES and she is!:goodvibes but I still maintain that he needs to listen to her and do what she asked.
 
If you go into any K classroom, you will see girls sitting at tables quietly doing work, and boys... not so much. Is this because all of the boys have parents who let them get away with stuff, and the girls have parents who make them tow the line? Or is it because boys mature more slowly and are not yet capable of sitting still and paying attention to paper for long periods? Hmmmm.....

I don't know, I can kinda see this point. While I overwhelmingly agree that all kids -- boys and girls -- need to understand that the teacher is in charge and that what they say we're doing now is what we're doing now, I can see where lots of younger little boys can struggle with this more than a lot of the girls. I only have a girl, but have many friends with young boys, and they are little balls of fire! Obviously I'm not saying all boys and all girls are a certain way, but I am surprised to read that people don't think there is a distinct difference in the genders at that age. I always thought it was just a given that most boys mature a little slower than their girl peers, just as they generally hit puberty at an older age. :confused3 Boys and girls are different, IMO! But there does for sure come a time when everyone has to sit, do their work, and obey the rules.
 
I would send him to kindergarten. I am in the same boat with my daughter..she has a Sept 29 bday and our cutoff is Oct 1st. I see no reason to hold them back unless there are real issues..it doesn't seem like your son has issues with learning.
 


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