OT: Potty Training & Daycare - long

[SalandJeff]

DD is 3.5 and is not yet potty trained. Pediatrician has said that she is probably just not ready and we should not get into a power struggle over it. She will sometimes say she needs to go and will go pee. Other times she says she needs to go, but just wants to fool with the tp, etc. and other times she just refuses. Has never asked to go when she has to poop. Obviously, no one would like her to be trained more than dh and I - diapers and pull ups are expensive.

Anyway, she is daycare full time and today I ran into the director who asked me "what is going on with potty training". DD is in the 3 yo. class and is only one of the 7 who is not trained. Told her what is going on, about discussion with ped., etc. I was under the impression that she was doing better with training at daycare. Director said to me that dd had been in panties and now regressed (she was never in panties - only pullups) and was having accidents. Well, duh - if she is not trained yet, she needs to be reminded and taken to the bathroom. She so caught me off guard with this whole discussion. She also said to me that by law dd could not be in this class if she was not potty trained. Now mind you - they moved her to this class last Aug when she was 2.10 giving me less than a week's notice that they were moving her up. They moved a few of the kids at that time and a couple were not trained. Advised her that no one has ever told me about this law thing. The do not have a changing table in dd's room, but the open bathroom is attached.

Director said the state will be coming in next couple of months for reaccrediation and insinuated that dd not being potty trained would be a problem or that they would get in trouble for her being in that class. The more I thought about this later, the more I think the problem is that they don't have a changing station in the room. I certainly don't think there is a "law" that 3 year olds have to be potty trained to be in a 3 year old daycare group. Also, checked online and their license does not expire until September.

I am really thinking that this is about them being too lazy to have to keep track of taking her to the bathroom. I am so upset about this. It is difficult to get into a "thing" with the director or teacher, because I fear that it will be taken out on dd and she really loves her teacher (who really seems to love dd also). I also feel like I am failing as a parent in some way for not having her potty trained yet.

Sorry for the long vent,but I am just so upset. I am getting teary (again) as I write this....any thoughts, advice, help???

 

[Oceana]

Not being due till September doesnt really mean anything the center will be inspected by loads of practice inspectors before the real inspector comes out... a failure would close down the facility and its had to get your word of mouth bad press out of peoples memories

The key to potty learning is consistancy!!!! Hands down... however you do it they have to do it and its gotta be that way every single time.

Personally I hate the pull up idea... sure its tons easier but its just a glorified diaper to a 3 year old... commit to diapers or panties, riding the line sends mixed signals.

If your day care has an issue they can move her to the 2 year old class till she potty learns, perhaps it will help motivate her?

We all have potty learning issues... I have a 20 month old who is totally non verbal who really wants to use the potty... only he cant fricken tell me when he wants to go... At home it is naked baby all the time and he does what he needs to do on his own... when we go out he holds it till he is in pain cause he doesnt use words... a non verbal 20 month old is not pratical unless we lived on a farm 100 years ago

 

[Juliet25]

Don't feel bad!!! My DD is turning 4 in April and she's only been PT since January. It was a long struggle for us (meanwhile, my friend's DS who just turned 2 is PT himself!!!). It really helped to have the day care on board. Our DC doesn't have a problem with 3 yo not being PT. When it came time to send DD to school in underwear, they were totally supportive, despite the many accidents she had. It WILL happen. A couple weeks later, DD isn't having accidents at all -- it just suddenly clicked with her.

I know it's hard to hear again and again, but it will happen.

 

[Juliet25]

Re-reading your message, I'm not sure I understand why the DC is in danger of loosing anything with DD not being PT. My DD's classroom was not attached to a restroom, nor was there a changing table in the room. They passed their state inspection with flying colors!

 

[Ali]

To Oceana

I teach non-verbal 3 to 5 year olds and they all have learned the sign for the letter T for toilet that they hold up and show me (sometimes they just make a T sign to themselves and wonder why we aren't paying atention) and then we help them get to the potty. I had a blind noin-verbal child who wouldn't learn the sign for T so I made him a talking button( talking picture frame) that said "I need to go to the bathroom" when pressed and I taped one to the bathroom door and one to his nap area so he could find it easier. An easy portable way for your chid to let you know would be to laminate a picture of a toilet and put it on your key chain or purse or backpack and train the child to get it and show it to you when he needs to go.

Many ways to tell someone with pictures, signs, or talking things.

good luck.

BTW - I hate pull-ups as well and I request that my parents use diapers until they want us to potty train then use cotton gerber training underwear. And I know that there are laws about kids who are 4 bening non-trained with adults who aren't related to them in group care being a big problem and illegal. Maybe 3 year olds are as well. In the daycare across the street from me the only 3 year olds who aren't trained are my students who have IEPs and have legal protection from the ADA regulations.

 

[WantToGoNow]

There is a law about having non potty trained children move into preschool classes. I don't know the details or the reasoning but my daughter worked in the older toddler class at the daycare where my younger children went and I know they could/would not move children into the 3 y/o class unless they were in regular underwear and having few accident. None of the preschools in our area can accepted diapered (including pull-ups) children either.

I'm not sure the size of your daycare, but usually by the time they get to the 3 y/o class, it is a big class. They expect the children to pretty much take care of their own toileting needs. They simply may not have the time (or they aren't used to having to) ask your child if she needs to go. I know I never ask my 3 y/o (turned 3 in December) if she needs to go -- if she needs to go, she goes.

If you are serious about potty training, then take off the pull-ups which are nothing more than glorified diapers and put on panties. Be sure to take about 5 outfits a day to daycare at the beginning.

 

[Momto3Disneyprinces]

Where do you people live??????!!!! I have never heard of such a thing...there is no "law".......We have many preschools that take children regardless of PT. She needs to look into other schools that will honor the opinion of her pediatrician. You cannot force a child to Potty Train. It becomes a battle of wills, and believe me, you will lose. Besides, they will start holding it in, and that can be really bad for them medically. Unless the child is on board, the only one being trained is the adult. (to drop everything, and put them on the toilet every half hour.)

 

[jennifer293]

It may not be so much of a law as it is a requirement set forth by the particular daycares. I can see that they would not want a non-potty trained child in with children who are potty trained due to hygiene issues. I mean I could see a child having an accident and other kids playing in or around it. YUCK!! If it were me I would either have them put my child back in the 2 yr old class until she is trained, or I would switch to a daycare that does not concentrate so much on the whole potty training issue. I agree that if your child is not ready then there is nothing you can do until they are. You are gonna lose that argument real quick. DD2 has been potty trained for a month now and I thought it would never happen, but one day she just decided she liked her big girl panties better than diapers.

 

[TiggerStac]

I have to say, I would definately be taken back by those comments. My DS's daycare was great w/helping potty training him. He was going pee on the potty no problem but the other was. Then we just decided to get rid of the pullups...they were great with him. I think it took about 1 week and he was trained #2, as well!! They warned me that he probably would'd have to deal w/accidents, but hey...1 week I thought it was great.

 

[Starr W.]

Best advice, is get her out of those pull-ups. My eldest was in daycare and we went with the training pants(cotton) and rubber pants over them(teacher suggested). I think it took less than a week for him to get it. Youngest was a power struggle, I got an ebook that really helped(got DH on the right page too), had him done in about a week.

Both parents need to be "on the same page" and if going to daycare you need to have the same routine also(ie don't forget about having to go sit on the potty at home too).

My youngest's preschool class last year(he was a "typical" student in with ones on IEP's) had to hire an extra teacher because out of the 12 kids, only 3 kids were potty trained(my son, another boy and a girl) and they needed extra help in the tolieting area.

 

[zoemurr]

I taught 3s and 4s for years and in this time had 2 kids that were stubborn about training. If she is there all day, I would imagine they have bathroom times. (we had them before going outside, and before lunch.. if they don't have them make sure the teacher has them for your daughter.)

What we did that worked was we would take all the toileting kids to the bathroom, and get them started with the activity. Then we would deal with the diaper kid, and they would get started a minute or 2 later. It took both of them only a week or so to see that this wasn't worth it.

Maybe the teacher would set a timer for every 1/2hr. and if she goes she gets a sticker on a chart?

I think you should flat out tell her that if she doesn't start trying she will have to go back to the "baby" room. Is there only one teacher for 7 kids? Then I can see where the diaper thing would be an issue as she can't watch the other kids while she is changing it.

Where I worked no pull ups were allowed. Diapers or undies. When a kid had an accident we gave them clean clothes and they were expected to take care of it themselves. (Of couse we would help them if they really needed it.. but the fact was for them to understand that this took a lot longer than using the toilet would have..)

Talk to the teacher. I know a lot of my kids were better behaved for me than for their parents.

Good luck!

 

[Samar]

*hug* I feel your pain. DS will be 4 in May and the most he's ever done is passed gas on his potty Luckily he's in a pre-k where PT isn't an issue. I mean, the love PT'ed kids but at the same time, some kids have disabilities that hinder PT so they understand that not all kids train the same and some take longer than others.

DD is 2 and she still isn't wanting to PT either. Kids are so expensive!

 

[Hannahsmom]

As a former Director, it looks like there is a complete breakdown of communication between the teacher and you, and the teacher and the Director. Have/did you speak with you DD teacher about the visit to the Ped? In my experience, in order for PT in Daycare to be effective, there needs to be consistency between school and home via daily communication. And I have to agree about the pull-ups, don't waste your money. As far as the licensing issue, every state has different rules regarding Daycares. I can see not being able to have a non-PT child in a class that does not have diaper changing facilities. And at least here in MI, even though the license does not expire until Sept., the licensing Agent can show up months before. The goal is to renew the license before it actually expires, but again every state is different. You can Google your states licensing rules to get an idea of what your dealing with. But be aware, reading it is like reading the fine print on your mortgage documents You didn't say if your DD goes to a corp. owned center or not, but sadly, a lot of decisions made about children have to do with the bottom line (part of the reason I am a "former" Director) in the Corp. centers. If they were getting a lot of new enrollments in the 2.5 yr. old class or below, they may have had to "bump" up children to make room. I can see where the director went to the 2.5 teacher and asked who could she move, and given the list of children that were PT and almost PT, assuming they would catch on once they moved up.

On a personal note, when we were PT DD I had a lot of luck with finding "her currency" as Dr. Phil says. I had just bought her Christmas dress with a pair of matching red velvet shoes. She loved those shoes, but I only let her wear them after she went potty on the toilet. She was trained within a week.

 

[tinkrules]

We had the same problem with our DD. The Doctor told us not to worry about it & she was prone to very bad diaper rashes so he told us while she was potty training to use pull ups because of that. One day I went to the DC to pick her up and they informed me that they had put her in training pants to see how she would do, without my permission. Once that happened I couldn't get her into pull up and we had LOTS of accidents and LOTS of very bad diaper rashes. I was furious!

 

[Oceana]

To Oceana

An easy portable way for your chid to let you know would be to laminate a picture of a toilet and put it on your key chain or purse or backpack and train the child to get it and show it to you when he needs to go.

Many ways to tell someone with pictures, signs, or talking things.

You are the smartest human on the planet!

We only taught very basic baby sign to him... because our older child was super verbal. By time we taught him a sign he could say it... so we kinda got lazy and just did abstract stuff like "more"

Finally deciding he wants to take his sweet time talking we have hit signing gung ho but his fingers are slow to learn and all his signs look so simular right now... but a card with a picture I think he could manage. I will update you!

julie

 

[SalandJeff]

Thanks to everyone for all the encouraging comments. In response to a couple of things.....she started wearing the pullups because the daycare asked for this when she was in the 2 y.o. room. The ratio for her class is 1 teacher to 10 children and there are only 7 in the class. I have considered switching her to another daycare, but she absolutely loves her teacher and the other kids in her class and I think it would be too upsetting for dd. Interesting that someone posted the comment that if they are not ready, you are only training the parents....these are my pediatrician's exact words.

I am just really disappointed in the director and their attitude about this (and the fact that I feel she outright lied about it.) I looked at the licensing requirements online and there is nothing about this nonsense in there.

We will be home all weekend and I will see how we can do. But I cannot absolutely force her and will not get into a huge power struggle. I also decided that, yes, we are going to try our best to do this and be consistent, but if she is not ready, I am not going to let the director determine what my dd should be doing. That is up to dd's doctor and us as her parents. Thanks again to all.

 

[jcc0621]

IF you don't mund me asking, what state are you in? My DS (also 3.5) is not trained and I seem to be having the same problems you are. Our pes basically said the same thing. He will do it when he is ready. I spoke to the teacher today who told me she has 10 kids in the class ( boys/5 girls) all the girls are trained, none of the boys are. She has told us the "I don't have time to take them to the potty all the time" I thought my husband was going to blow a gasket. Our daycare has tried on several differnt occasions to pull the "state law says" card for different reasons for diffferent reasons. With me it is was "State law says that MUST take a nap (DS is no longer a napper, but will sit quietly and do puzzles or look through books). With another parent it was "State law says the children can only in care for 8 hours a day (Kind of hard when most people work 8 hours and would have to drop off before work starts and pick up after work is over). Several of the parents got together and contacted the Dept. of Human Services (we are in Pennsylvania and that is who regulates daycare here) When we told them what we were told and they said that neither of these was State Law and told us where to go on the web to get the state regulations. We tok them into the director and asked her to show us where it said these things. Of course she couldn't.
We are looking for new daycare ourselves. What we are going to do is tell the place he is in now that we are pulling him out for the summer (my husband is a teacher so it is plausible). We are going to send him to another daycare for the summer to see how he does. If both he and we like it, we will call the old place and give our two weeks notice. If we and/or he hates we will pull him completely for the summer and go back to the old school where he will have new teacher, which we think is a big part of our problem

 

[jcc0621]

There is a law about having non potty trained children move into preschool classes. I don't know the details or the reasoning but my daughter worked in the older toddler class at the daycare where my younger children went and I know they could/would not move children into the 3 y/o class unless they were in regular underwear and having few accident. None of the preschools in our area can accepted diapered (including pull-ups) children either.

I'm not sure the size of your daycare, but usually by the time they get to the 3 y/o class, it is a big class. They expect the children to pretty much take care of their own toileting needs. They simply may not have the time (or they aren't used to having to) ask your child if she needs to go. I know I never ask my 3 y/o (turned 3 in December) if she needs to go -- if she needs to go, she goes.

If you are serious about potty training, then take off the pull-ups which are nothing more than glorified diapers and put on panties. Be sure to take about 5 outfits a day to daycare at the beginning.

This law varied by state. It is not a law in PA

 

[jiminy]

I have not read all of the replies yet, but we went through something similar with our youngest ds. His preschool was very adamant that we potty train him, but he just wasn't interested. Finally, I saw something online (I think Dr Phil had recommended it also). It was how to potty train in one day. It seemed like a bunch of hooey, but I was incredibly desparate (ds was turning 4 soon) and we bought it. We took an entire weekend, didn't go anywhere, just stayed home and followed the instructions and believe it or not, he was pretty much potty trained when we were done. I say pretty much b/c he still had trouble about waiting until the absolute last minute to go pee, so sometimes he would get himself a little wet. But the HUGE accomplishment was actually getting him to go poop (sorry to be so graphic). We practically threw a party for him when he finally did that, and once he did it once, he never pooped in his pants again.

Anyway, if you are completely desperate, you might want to take a look at this: http://drphil.com/articles/article/264/ I honestly do not usually watch Dr Phil, but made a point to when I knew the show was about potty training. The whole doll and potty thing didn't affect ds much at all, it was the "practicing" 10 times everytime he would wet himself that finally did it.

 

[KELLY]

I'm a home day care provider. PT is done how the parents want it done. Kids need to be on the same routine. Same with naps my daughter is 19 months and still takes a 3 hour nap in the morning and a 2 -3 hour in the afternoon. Most only nap in the afternoon. My daughter likes her sleep. She is in bed at 7 pm and get up around 6 am. Every child is diffrent and the should understand your childs needs. It sounds like the don't want to be bothered with the effort.

KELLy