OT - Organic vs. Non-Organic Yogurt

[nessz79]

PrincessMom you are very right, I misspoke when I typed viruses. I did indeed mean bacteria as I was thinking of ecoli and hoof and mouth. I really don't want to aurgue about it, it's clear you feel very strongly on your position and I have no desire to change your mind. I simply wanted to state that I too have valid reasons for making the choices I make and it isn't because I feel superior to anyone. I agree organics are a huge profit driven industry, as for my family we buy from a local Community Supported Co-op farm and help support a very lovely local farm family. We also buy our milk and meat local, it is not organic, but is hormone free grass fed cattle. We do buy things we can't get local in organic if possible. We actually don't spend a ton more than conventional groceries and in many cases we spend less.

To the OP: I meant to comment on this in my previous post. We started buying the greek style organic yogurt. It has a much thicker consitancy.

You said it much better than I did.

 

[princessmom29]

PrincessMom you are very right, I misspoke when I typed viruses. I did indeed mean bacteria as I was thinking of ecoli and hoof and mouth. I really don't want to aurgue about it, it's clear you feel very strongly on your position and I have no desire to change your mind. I simply wanted to state that I too have valid reasons for making the choices I make and it isn't because I feel superior to anyone. I agree organics are a huge profit driven industry, as for my family we buy from a local Community Supported Co-op farm and help support a very lovely local farm family. We also buy our milk and meat local, it is not organic, but is hormone free grass fed cattle. We do buy things we can't get local in organic if possible. We actually don't spend a ton more than conventional groceries and in many cases we spend less.

To the OP: I meant to comment on this in my previous post. We started buying the greek style organic yogurt. It has a much thicker consitancy.

I wish everyone had access to that kind of local family farm. There simply isn't one here. It's great that you are buying local. I wish we could. We buy as much produce as possible from local farmer's markets, but wven that is hard as the big "fruit stands" ship in thier produce. None of it is organivc. The only place to buy organic anything is the huge chain groceries. There is not an operating dairy within 200 miles of us. I just hate to see huge conglomerates taking advantage of people's fears.

 

[dunbarfamily]

Lots of non-organic yogurts contain thickeners, that's my understanding. We give our kids organic yogurt and it is runny. We eat regular yogurt and it is not runny.

 

[deegack]

Wow - I didn't realize organic yogurt was so controversial.

We do the clean 15 and dirty dozen as much as possible. I don't buy everything organic, but try to buy the dirty dozen list organic as much as possible (as budget/availability allows). I don't feel superior to anyone, but if I can reduce things like growth hormones in my daughters diet, why not do it.

You know what if you don't want to do it don't. Its your choice.

 

[sweetsusannah]

I wish everyone had access to that kind of local family farm. There simply isn't one here. It's great that you are buying local. I wish we could. We buy as much produce as possible from local farmer's markets, but wven that is hard as the big "fruit stands" ship in thier produce. None of it is organivc. The only place to buy organic anything is the huge chain groceries. There is not an operating dairy within 200 miles of us. I just hate to see huge conglomerates taking advantage of people's fears.

If you are looking for local farms and CSA’s you may be surprised at what is around you. Check out www.localharvest.org and see what is in your area. We have found local farmers tend to not be certified organic because it is so costly but do practice organic methods and those who don’t almost always use fewer chemicals then the big farm guys. Plus it’s so much fresher and tastier in my opinion.

 

[tartemis]

You are not tasting "chemicals" in non organic milk becuase there are none. What you are likley tasting is a difference in how fresh the milk is. Your organic milk is likely local and probably dsoesn't go through the same pasturization and sterilization processes and commercial milk. Studies have shown that local organic milk and free range eggs contian more bacteris than more pasturized milk and house raised eggs. I don't recall the numbers on the milk, but the incidence of salmonella in free range eggs is twice that in house raised eggs.

Unlikely my organic milk is local because we buy it at Whole Foods (and use their generic brand most of the time), but I suppose it could be. Whatever is the reason, I can't stand the taste of non-organic milk now. Interestingly, we have found that organic milk also stays fresher than non-organic milk -- and I may have read (but I could be misremembering) that it is becuase there is more natural bacteria in organic milk than the over-pastuerized/sterilized stuff that it stays fresher longer. My parents have even made the switch after trying it out at our home.

All bacteria is not bad -- in fact, we rarely use hand sanitizer or anti-bacterial soap because I do think those are more determinental to your health than just using regular soap.

 

[tartemis]

2. There is not an epidemic of kids entering puberty early. ther are more cses that in the past, but we also have better healthcare and nutrition than in years past. there is a strong argument for this being the source.

Really? Are you sure about that? I'm very interested in this topic as the mom of two little girls and I have been freaked out about some recent reports. Admittedly, I'm reading them from places like CNN, so I'm not reading the studies themselves, but if I recall they said that something like 23% of black girls now have breasts by age 7 and 10% of white girls do too. (And by age 8 those numbers are something ridculously high like 40% and 25%.) Those percentages had doubled since 1997. (My girls are of mixed ancestory so both statistics are relevant to me.) I know that one theory is that obesity may be to blame, but another is all of the plastics and other chemicals in our environment (including hormones in milk).

If you have more information (which it sounds like you might) I would love to hear it.

 

[princessmom29]

Unlikely my organic milk is local because we buy it at Whole Foods (and use their generic brand most of the time), but I suppose it could be. Whatever is the reason, I can't stand the taste of non-organic milk now. Interestingly, we have found that organic milk also stays fresher than non-organic milk -- and I may have read (but I could be misremembering) that it is becuase there is more natural bacteria in organic milk than the over-pastuerized/sterilized stuff that it stays fresher longer. My parents have even made the switch after trying it out at our home.

All bacteria is not bad -- in fact, we rarely use hand sanitizer or anti-bacterial soap because I do think those are more determinental to your health than just using regular soap.

I am a biochemist. I fully unerstand about good and bad bacteria. There are actually some that are good or bad depending on the situation. You are correct about sanitizers, ect but I was speaking to the harmful bacteria that pasturization is designed to kill. I worked in a lab at one point where these tests were part of my job. Organic fams popped positive for salmonella about twice as often and nonorganic as far as eggs go. If you by organic eggs, yrad eggs, or free range eggs I would cook them to a firm done consistancy. Sercing them runny is really risky.

 

[princessmom29]

Really? Are you sure about that? I'm very interested in this topic as the mom of two little girls and I have been freaked out about some recent reports. Admittedly, I'm reading them from places like CNN, so I'm not reading the studies themselves, but if I recall they said that something like 23% of black girls now have breasts by age 7 and 10% of white girls do too. (And by age 8 those numbers are something ridculously high like 40% and 25%.) Those percentages had doubled since 1997. (My girls are of mixed ancestory so both statistics are relevant to me.) I know that one theory is that obesity may be to blame, but another is all of the plastics and other chemicals in our environment (including hormones in milk).

If you have more information (which it sounds like you might) I would love to hear it.

I teach in a high school and we have done somamate e looking into this for research projects. My stuff is on my school computer, but from what i remember from my studen's presnetation the issue is really a muddy one. There are so many factors at play and potentially at play here that it is really hard to definitively say what is or isn't to blame. Soy is another thing being looked at as a possibility, but like most things the jury is still out. There is just not enough data yet to come to a real conclusion. There are also some scientists that say that these numbers are being generated subjectively as well. How do you decide what constitutes a breast and what is baby fat or obesity? How much of what is percieved as early development is actually due to girls being heaver, and how much is actually early development? Historically, african american girls have developed earlier than caucasian girls, and caucasian girls have developed before asian girls. There is a certian amount of genetics at work there. It is areally sticky issue with no real clearcut answers, and that was the point I am trying to make. It is really easy to just point the fingers at hormones in milk, but the issue is much more complex.

 

[tartemis]

I am a biochemist. I fully unerstand about good and bad bacteria. There are actually some that are good or bad depending on the situation. You are correct about sanitizers, ect but I was speaking to the harmful bacteria that pasturization is designed to kill. I worked in a lab at one point where these tests were part of my job. Organic fams popped positive for salmonella about twice as often and nonorganic as far as eggs go. If you by organic eggs, yrad eggs, or free range eggs I would cook them to a firm done consistancy. Sercing them runny is really risky.

Good to know. I figured as much would be true about yard eggs, but I thought we would be safe with your generic organic eggs.

 

[northriver]

We eat organic milk and yogurt most of the time and the reason we choose to do so is the hormones in those products. Despite whatever conclusive or inclusive studies may have been done, I'm not comfortable feeding those hormones to my children. They are not "cow" hormones, they are synthetic hormones. We don't really know what effect they have on our developing children.

Other foods we try to buy local to support local farms mostly for environmental reasons although fresh foods ARE healthier so we try to eat local when we can.

On that note, we ususally yogurt from a dairy about 100 miles from here. Not the closest dairy that makes yogurt, but one that delivers to the store closest to my home, so it works for me! I buy the large containers of plain yogurt and flavor/sweeten it with home made jam. I usually buy the full fat yogurt, so it is plenty thick Yum!

 

[princessmom29]

We eat organic milk and yogurt most of the time and the reason we choose to do so is the hormones in those products. Despite whatever conclusive or inclusive studies may have been done, I'm not comfortable feeding those hormones to my children. They are not "cow" hormones, they are synthetic hormones. We don't really know what effect they have on our developing children.

Other foods we try to buy local to support local farms mostly for environmental reasons although fresh foods ARE healthier so we try to eat local when we can.

On that note, we ususally yogurt from a dairy about 100 miles from here. Not the closest dairy that makes yogurt, but one that delivers to the store closest to my home, so it works for me! I buy the large containers of plain yogurt and flavor/sweeten it with home made jam. I usually buy the full fat yogurt, so it is plenty thick Yum!

They are synthetically produced BOVINE (COW) growth hormones. They ARE in fact cow hormones and are chemically identical to naturally produced bovine hormone. I am not sure who told you otherwise, but they were not correct. It is the same idea as diabetics taknig synthetically produced insulin. It is a human hormone, chemically idential to the one produced in our body. Do I agree with thier use? NO I don't, but I don't believe all of the claims being made aobut how harmful they are.

 

[holden]

My girls drink organic milk exclusively. When we wento WDW, I couldn't figure out why they were not drinking their milk with dinner. My SIL asked if they drink organic, and I said, "Yes". She said, "That's why. Regular milk tastes different." I had no idea!

 

[deegack]

They are synthetically produced BOVINE (COW) growth hormones. They ARE in fact cow hormones and are chemically identical to naturally produced bovine hormone. I am not sure who told you otherwise, but they were not correct. It is the same idea as diabetics taknig synthetically produced insulin. It is a human hormone, chemically idential to the one produced in our body. Do I agree with thier use? NO I don't, but I don't believe all of the claims being made aobut how harmful they are.

Then why are they banned in most countries except the US (and China). This includes Canada and Western Europe. I think you are kidding yourself if you think that this is completely safe. If you haven't, I would recommend viewing Food Inc. Even if half of what is in the documentary is true, it is scary.

Anyway, feed your family whatever you want, but I guess I don't understand the need to try and make others feel bad for just trying to feed their family the best food they can.

 

[princessmom29]

Then why are they banned in most countries except the US (and China). This includes Canada and Western Europe. I think you are kidding yourself if you think that this is completely safe. If you haven't, I would recommend viewing Food Inc. Even if half of what is in the documentary is true, it is scary.

Anyway, feed your family whatever you want, but I guess I don't understand the need to try and make others feel bad for just trying to feed their family the best food they can.

Just because a govenment decides to ban something doesn't automatically make it bad, and you are fooling yourself if you don't think that there was a lot of money spent be lobbists to make that happen in Europe. You realize that food inc was funded by people who stand to make millinos by selling organic and hormone fee foods, right? I can tell you from first hand experience that the picture it paints of the poultry industry is nowhere near accurate. I did quality control in the poultry industry for years, and I hace NEVER seen many of the things they show in that film. They are not protraying industry standard practice, but the absoulte worst case they could find, an passing that off as how the whole industry operates. I don't know first had, but I would imagine the same is true for beef processing.
I am not trying to make anyone feel bad, just trying to keep people from being taken advantage of. That is what the organic food industry is doing. They are charging higher prices for the SAME product ansd making a killing my minipulating people's fears. I just wish more pople would wake up and see it rather than blindly following the "someone said it is harmful so it must be" rethoric out there. There is just NO science to back up those claims. Peroid. Just because enough poeple are saying it desn't make it true.

 

[sweetsusannah]

I am not trying to make anyone feel bad, just trying to keep people from being taken advantage of. That is what the organic food industry is doing. They are charging higher prices for the SAME product ansd making a killing my minipulating people's fears. I just wish more pople would wake up and see it rather than blindly following the "someone said it is harmful so it must be" rethoric out there. There is just NO science to back up those claims. Peroid. Just because enough poeple are saying it desn't make it true.

I just wanted to point out that yes; Organic industry does stand to make millions by people converting to eating organic food. But as far as who has the most money to throw around it's Monsanto and the Beef association, they far overshadow organics in political and monetary influence. They want us to continue eating conventional food so they continue to make billions. Every industry strives to make money that is what industry does.

I think many people who eat organic do so because they research food and make a decision to eat organic for specific personal reasons, not because they follow blindly. The movie Food, Inc. if you haven't seen it actually advocates local farmers and nonprocessed foods over anything else. Omnivore’s Dilemma by Michael Pollen is also a fantastic read if you want to be knowledgeable about where your food comes from. Lastly, there is no scientific data to prove nonorganic food isn't harmful so many of us choose the better safe than sorry ideology when feeding our children. Reading back over your post, I have a counter aurgement and a study to back up my position that contradicts what you have said. Neither of us has conclusive data.

I think I understand what point you are trying to get across here. You want those who don’t eat organic to not be villainized as unhealthy uneducated people, right? However, on this thread I think people are seeing it as more of an attack on those of us who also educate ourselves and choose to believe organics are in fact healthier.

 

[princessmom29]

I just wanted to point out that yes; Organic industry does stand to make millions by people converting to eating organic food. But as far as who has the most money to throw around it's Monsanto and the Beef association, they far overshadow organics in political and monetary influence. They want us to continue eating conventional food so they continue to make billions. Every industry strives to make money that is what industry does.

I think many people who eat organic do so because they research food and make a decision to eat organic for specific personal reasons, not because they follow blindly. The movie Food, Inc. if you haven't seen it actually advocates local farmers and nonprocessed foods over anything else. Omnivore’s Dilemma by Michael Pollen is also a fantastic read if you want to be knowledgeable about where your food comes from. Lastly, there is no scientific data to prove nonorganic food isn't harmful so many of us choose the better safe than sorry ideology when feeding our children. Reading back over your post, I have a counter aurgement and a study to back up my position that contradicts what you have said. Neither of us has conclusive data.

I think I understand what point you are trying to get across here. You want those who don’t eat organic to not be villainized as unhealthy uneducated people, right? However, on this thread I think people are seeing it as more of an attack on those of us who also educate ourselves and choose to believe organics are in fact healthier.

I have seen food inc and most of what they protray, at least of the poultry industry, is grossly inaccurate. None of the polutry companies I have looked at use antibiotics unless they had sick birds, or birds sick within airborne range. None of the them ever used growth hormone. None of this was present in the feed samples I analyzed, or in the meat we tested.
I just want peole to understand that there is in fact no eveidence at all to back up many of the claims the organic foods industry is making. They have NO proof for almost everything they are saying. Lies are being told on BOTH sides, and many of the reasons presented here for eating organic that are being taken as fact are simply not. No one can present any evidence to prove many of these claims. It is absolutely not a clear cut as many seem to believe and much of what is being bandied about as fact is speculation at best. I just want people to really look at the hard evidence.
We buy local as much as possible and eat very little processed food. I just don't see the need to buy organic when it is close to twice the price of nonorganic and there are NO proven benefits to eating organic. If you choose to do so, then that is your choice, but I hate to see so much bad infromation abotu the topic batted around. All I am sying is make your decision with eyes open to all the facts and the motivations of those presenting them.

 

[deegack]

I just wanted to point out that yes; Organic industry does stand to make millions by people converting to eating organic food. But as far as who has the most money to throw around it's Monsanto and the Beef association, they far overshadow organics in political and monetary influence. They want us to continue eating conventional food so they continue to make billions. Every industry strives to make money that is what industry does.

I think many people who eat organic do so because they research food and make a decision to eat organic for specific personal reasons, not because they follow blindly. The movie Food, Inc. if you haven't seen it actually advocates local farmers and nonprocessed foods over anything else. Omnivore’s Dilemma by Michael Pollen is also a fantastic read if you want to be knowledgeable about where your food comes from. Lastly, there is no scientific data to prove nonorganic food isn't harmful so many of us choose the better safe than sorry ideology when feeding our children. Reading back over your post, I have a counter aurgement and a study to back up my position that contradicts what you have said. Neither of us has conclusive data.

I think I understand what point you are trying to get across here. You want those who don’t eat organic to not be villainized as unhealthy uneducated people, right? However, on this thread I think people are seeing it as more of an attack on those of us who also educate ourselves and choose to believe organics are in fact healthier.

thank you. I would have said this almost word for word if I had been able to get back on today. (Someone did not want to nap this afternoon...)

I don't pay twice as much for organic products. I actually usually pay only a few cents more except with yogurt but the only full fat yogurt in my grocery is organic. I buy what I can when I can and some things are not worth it (organic cookies, um no). But I did put a lot of stock in both my peds advising that I use organic dairy if nothing else. I also think it is telling that the entire civilized world, except for us and China ban these hormones, and we have the largest beef industry in the world. To quote Arseno - things that make me go hmmmm.

So, to conclude, I will continue down my organic dairy road and you continue down your nonorganic dairy road and we will agree to disagree.