OT (long), but you are all experts on ASD, SID, ODD etc. . .

nuts4wdw

Have a disney day!!!
Joined
Sep 12, 1999
Messages
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Hi,
This is not related to Disney except to the fact that my little kiddo shares some of the stories I have read of other ASD kids while at the world. My trouble is that I am a frustrated parent not knowing where to turn, or what is out there, or maybe I'm way off base. I will give back ground on my son "J". J was born at 38 weeks, normal healthy pregnancy besides me having type I diabetes.

He came into the world screaming. He was impossible to console. He would scream for hours at a time and would sometimes stop when he was walked around, he would cry until I cried. He spit up excessively. His dr. at the time blamed his excessive crying (which was severe enough that it was noted in his chart 2 days after birth) on my drinking a (1) diet coca cola a day during my pregnancy and no notice was given to his spitting up.

J also drooled horribly, he wore a bib for a year because he drooled so much. J sat on time, would not crawl, and began walking (running) at 10 months. As far as potty training, he was "pee" trained immediately, but doing the other didn't seem to register. Once he began walking he was not as fussy, but he was driven by a eternal internal motor :rotfl: and had no fear.

He also suffered to extreme seperation anxiety. He began to attach to my mother "cracker", so it was only me and my mother who could watch him. If anyone else would watch him, he would scream and meltdown for approximately 1/2 hour.

He also became fascinated with spinnng things, he would sceam and whine until we took him to see the ceiling fans in the stores. He would and still does identifies people's vehicles by the wheels and rims they have. His fascination also took him to cars and trains, which he would line up, and became frustrated if you took a train out of line to "play" with him. He still plays with his toys a certain way, and his younger brother MUST listen to him and do what he says when they play together.

He began speech therapy at age two. He was also sent to a child psychiatrist to see about autism. This was shot down because J maintained eye contact. He was also screened and scored low developmentally from the local child developmental center, but only because he would not participate in screening and clung to me.

We finally found one speech therapist that J would allow to work with him. I was still required to be in the same room, or else the meltdown would begin. She would have to "corner" him with her chair when working with him to keep him from running around the room. When working on the floor he would wiggle, donkey kick, and eventually become frustrated. She suggested testing him for sensory issues. I filled out the eval. and he was said to have sensory integration dysfunction. The occupational therapist that did the eval was too aggressive for J, and I declined services.

He then was diagnosed with ADHD at 3 when he began attending special ed preschool. He was then put on Risperdal to help him "slow" down and maybe help with sleeping. He had terrible sleeping issues (still does). They also started trying different ADHD meds.

J became obsessed with my mother. He would cry and go into a rage whenever he couldn't be with her. He would start these rages with begging, which led up to whining and crying, and then he would kick and scream, after the rages which lasted anywhere from 1-2 hours he would lay in the fetal position for about 30 minutes. During these rages he would throw rocks at cars, hurt himself by pulling on his testicles, scratch, and become destructive by throwing toys and blankets. It became so severe that if my mom had something to drop off at my house, she would drive up and leave it by my gate so J wouldn't see her. These rages led to the diagnosis of oppisitional defiant disorder.

Fast forward to school years, J is very good at socializing with adults. He has a charm about him that is amazing (he seems shy, but normal)! But with peers J is at a loss. He use to attack the neighbor child because J was made to share his toys (this was at the age of 6). He doesn't seem to take social cues from peers. If they are ignoring him or choosing to not talk to him, he just continues to bug them or repeat their name over and over again. If they won't play what he wants, he just leaves and will run or spin alone on the playground. He says things about them not liking him.

He has been seeing a therapist intermittely that sent him to a child psychologist that said that he was not autistic, but had traits of PDD-NOS. He also diagnosed him with anxiety and learning disorder. J was also sent to a pediatrician that specializes in behaviors and she said that he had multisystem developmental disorder.

In school he struggles, his teacher wears a microphone with a speaker on his desk to keep him focused. He is seen by a occupational therapist that helps him with his severe sensory issues. He sees a speech therapist. He also goes to resource to help him with learning issues. The problem with the school is that they think he doesn't have any problems except anxiety and sensory issues. So, they are thinking of exiting him. Although, the school staff has never seen him unmedicated. Each day he takes a antipsychotic, antidepressant, and ADHD patch.

He called home the other day saying he didn't want to ride the bus because it was too loud, I told him to cover his ears with his hands and that it was only a short ride. When I told the special ed. teacher this, she told me that "these" kids learn how to use it to their advantage. This wasn't the first time he said things like this. Last year he didn't want to go to disney world because "the people were too loud", he cries when we go on journey into you imagination because of the skunk smell, and can't take it when one of his siblings cries. But he is able to talk and help people, he copes well with what he feels. Because of this he doesn't get the help he needs.

He recently went in for a functional test and scored at a 4 year 11 month old level and he is 7 years 6 months old. The low score mainly came from the fact that he still messes his pants everyday, because he says he can't feel it. He is able to maintain bowel control at school with there only being 2-4 accidents in the past 1.5 years, but once he gets home the accidents happen.

He also has terrible eating habits, I think it's sensory, but he eats like a toddler. He doesn't want to use utensils and puts food in his mouth with his fingers and then sucks on his fingers. He doesn't seem to notice food on lips and face. I also answered questions about his behavior when his meds weren't in balance on this eval. Because hearing a 6 year old scream he wants to die during a rage isn't normal. Because of his scores he does receive state medical.

After school, he comes home so bottled up with frustration, anxiety that he is jittery, angry, and homework is nearly impossible. Last year when his meds needed adjusting he took a hammer to his walls, took his clock down and broke out the glass, and would rip his bed sheets off. When his meds wear off in the afternoon he will start giggling this loud laugh and rocking and squirming. But no one sees this except his family.

He is only in 1st grade. I'm afraid of what his future holds. His diagnoses are adhd, SID, anxiety disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, PDD-NOS traits, speech delay, sleep disorder, ODD, multisystem develpmental disorder, and learning disorder. Still non of these seem to fit the whole picture, and none of them are much they can do anything about in school. I've seen nearly physician in my small town, and don't know what else to do.

J is a very pleasant boy when medicated, but otherwise gets people to say "they need to discipline that boy". Does anyone else have any kiddos like this? What worked, what didn't?
I'm feeling like people are thinking I'm trying to make my little boy sick, but I know he doesn't "see" the world like the rest of us do. They all tell me that his behaviors are because he is trying to "control" me. I know kids are smart little buggers, but these behaviors seem uncontrollable. I'm just trying to make sure he turns into a happy healthy young man. Thanks for listening to my long winded frustration.
 
I just wanted to say that as the mom of an aspie I would love to comment on your post......but...with issues of my own...I find it very difficult to read your post. Would it be possible to break it up into several paragraphs and space things out a bit?? It is very uncomfortable for me to read..sorry!

Jill
 
I edited.:confused3 and am excited to read any responses. I hope it is easier to read. I didn't intend to have a small novel written:eek: , but oh well.
 
Wow, that's a lot to deal with.

OK, first, the school system can't possibly be serious about declassifying him? The developmental delays alone should qualify him.

Regarding the sensory stuff, are they doing the brushing/joint compression protocol? That really worked well for my kids and their sensory issues. My older DD couldn't even go into WalMart because the buzzing of the fluorescent lights were too loud for her. She's six now and has overcome most of her sensory issues (still has a lot of social issues, though).

Have you asked the school for a behavioral specialist?

I don't care how people feel about my DD being on meds. If your kid has diabetes you give them insulin, if they have cancer, you give them chemo. So if your kid's brain is sick you give them meds.

Anyway :grouphug: . My younger daughter has both Down syndrome and autism and I worry what her future will be like. Right now she is pretty happy in her own world, but is starting to act out with a lot of stop & drop, hitting, biting, etc.
 

i'm in no fit state at the moment to offer you any advice but can i send you a hug and tell you that i understand a little of what you are feeling and say that you are not alone:hug:

it's hard at the moment for me too and that's why i cannot comment also it's 5 minutes to 11pm here in the Uk and i've yet to eat my evening meal

tomorrow i will come back and re read your post but in the meantime here's another hug from one mum to another

take care :hug:
 
(hugs) I don't have any experience with behavioral\developmental disorders, but I did want to comment on the part of your post where you said that you've seen nearly every physician in your town. Have you considered searching for a top-notch specialist elsewhere in the state or even further? Yes, it's expensive, but when you're at the end of your rope it may be the best option.

I'm constantly amazed by how little doctors know about specialized illnesses, even when the doctor is supposed to be an expert in the area. I have Still's disease, which is one of three types of juvenile rheumatoid arthritis (also known as systemic-onset). This is NOT a rare or "weird" disease; it's the least common form of JRA, yes, but it's common enough that there are hundreds of studies and thousands of pages of literature, and most pediatric rheumatologists are familiar with it. The problem is, I'm now 26 years old and I can't see a pediatric rheum anymore. A diagnosis of JRA doesn't magically morph into adult RA after you turn 18. I still have a form of JRA, and I always will, but the last three rheumatologists I've seen have refused to treat me until I went for invasive hematology tests to determine why my white blood cell count is so high. A high WBC is a hallmark of Still's; it's one of the identifying characteristics of the disease. However, it's not normal for adult RA, and all three of these supposed "rheumatoid arthritis specialists" have been entirely convinced I have some strange blood disorder because they don't know anything about my particular condition. I have, incidentally, been to the hematologist three separate times and I've had conversations such as this:
"So why did your doctor send you here?"
"I have a high WBC... it's in the 30s. She's worried."
"Diagnosis?"
"Still's."
"Er, so why are you here again?"
"I have a high WBC."
(insert confused looks here) "You have Still's."
"Yes."
At this point I usually tell them that my doctor won't give me the medication that keeps me alive unless I have the blood test done, which leads to a discussion on how I need to find a better doctor. As I said, I'm on number three in about a year's time and still working my way through the insurance handbook of participating physicians until I find someone who knows what they're doing.

My point here is that a doctor doesn't have to be totally incompetent in order to give you an incorrect diagnosis; he or she just has to be unfamiliar with the real problem, and if I can't even find a rheumatologist who's familiar with JRA, I can imagine the problems you're having. You say that you live in a small town; my best advice would be to find a behavioral specialist in a nearby big city, somebody who has more experience with a wider range of patients, and who isn't going to try to pigeonhole your son's condition into one of the diagnoses he has experience with when it doesn't quite fit.
 
Yes it is frustrating just reading your post, so I can partially imagine how you are feeling.

First the psychiatrist who you too him to at 2 years was obviously not competent to diagnose children on the autism spectrum. While lack of eye contact can be an indicator it is not a requirement for a diagnosis.

Sensory issues can be present at birth and many are extremely difficult to isolate at that age, even for the best trained professionals. If he was experiencing discomfort from this, where else would he go but to his maternal bonds, (don’t beat yourself up about this it is very rare to be able to do much about this except to be there for him). If you were able to console him you and your mother were doing your job, Have you ever seen a child who was in “discomfort” who did not experience anxiety when being separated from their mother?

I won’t get too much into depth on the ADHD issue other than to say it is the most common misdiagnosis for Autism spectum children (if you want more detail scan some of my other posts)

While you son may have other “issues” you really need to get a competent evolution for Autism. See if there is any Autism or Aspergers parents support groups and visit them. They generally have the best handle on who in the area is competent. If there is no one then go outside your area. I have my opinion on what is required to be competent which is also addressed in my other posts.

With the “markers” you describe here I would also offer that the psychologist was not adequately experience or educated to make a proper determination.

Unless your special ed teacher has had available to her an extensive profession review of your child’s sensitivities, her statement is highly speculative and probably inappropriate.

If he is on the Autism spectrum the medicines may be allowing him to “function” at some level but they do not help with the root caused of his behaviors and additional co-morbidities are common if he does not get the proper support from school and the clinical community.

It really comes down to this, is his anxiety from sensory issues and lack of innate social skill or from some other cause. If it is from the first there are now programs and procedure to greatly help him. And if that is the sole cause then in a relatively short amount of time (a year or two) with the proper supports the medications will quickly become inappropriate from him.

By the way much of what you describe as “behavior issues” are probably really manifestations.

Hope this helps a little

bookwormde
 
It sounds like to me that he probably has autism. I have had a doctor tell me my son was not b/c he is too social and looks at me. Yes he does, but he still is on the spectrum. I would get him re-evaluated.
 
Wow! I knew the DIS would be there for me. After 7 years of "battling", I've become pretty weary. I believe that he is on the autism spectrum, but when we go in and he looks the dr. in the eye and answers his questions, we are sent out the door with another "shut them up" diagnosis. I'd like to take him in unmedicated, but I can't do that to him. I imagine he must feel horrible without his meds.

We are looking out of state for somewhere that may be able to help him, we are from Southern Idaho. What type of professionals have you had the most success with? J has seen 2 general pediatricians, 2 child psychiatrists, 1 child psychologist, 1 family therapist, and 1 behavioral pediatrician. I've been told the University of Utah may be able to help by his therapist, but I can't really afford to go specialist shopping :lmao:

Do you think that this would be your next step? Do any of you have a child with ASD or Asperger's that can carry on a conversation. This seems to be what stops the diagnosis of ASD or something else. I feel that with all of his diagnoses that there should a root to all of these problems that hasn't been identified. Thanks, for your stories and support. Please share, I am hungry to hear about others in my similar situation.

PS Sorry for my original post being confusing. I was trying to condense 7 years into one page, not an easy task.
 
By definition all children with Aspergers have relatively standard verbal skills (there may be some issues), so do a lot of the high and middle functioning children on the spectrum but there may have been significant delays or ongoing issues.

We finally got our son’s diagnosis from a neurologist. If you can find a developmental pediatrician, who has a large number of Autism spectrum children in their practice,
that is generally a good resource.

And now for a little aspie humor, what do you call a developmental pediatrician who knows nothing about Autism, answer: a behavioral pediatrician. I know probably not funny at this point but it will be some day.

Educating yourself is also extremely important. I always recommend Tony Attwood , the complete guide Aspergers syndrome C/2007 available on Amazon.

Again if you click on my name you can access the rest of my posts with more information, I try not to repeat too much of what I have written before. You will also see a lot of good information from others on those threads.

bookwormde
 
I am just going to offer a tip, for now, about using utensils. I'll probably be back ;) but that caught my eye and I wanted to respond. It's just a little thing, I know, but the little things help too.

Justin didn't want to use utensils. Very similar. Ate with his fingers, didn't notice the mess on his mouth. He doesn't seem to notice that sort of stuff, dirt and messiness or like his glasses will be filthy and he just doesn't care.

We did a Judevine parent training and one of the guys there decided to tackle the utensil situation, after witnessing Justin eating spaghetti-o's with his hands. :sad2:

So. He gave Justin a napkin and told him this is how we were going to do it. After every bite Justin needed to wipe at his mouth with the napkin. And the napkin stays in Justin's left hand all the time while he's eating, he needed to hold the napkin. (he's right-handed)

Then he gave Justin a spoon in his right hand.

Now, since his left hand was occupied with the napkin, he couldn't use it to hold on to the bowl or for grabbing food. They played a game to see how many spaghetti-o's Justin could "catch" in the spoon, which you know is kinda tricky. And after every bite, the napkin. Using it after every bite kinda made up for the fact that he wasn't very good at getting everything.

For some reason, this worked. Making him hold the napkin was a constant reminder to use it, and making it into a challenge. You'd have to use a food they really like though, Justin was an easy food-reward kid. The girls in the respite room followed up on it, even if it was a dry snack, to have the napkin in his left hand.

Do any of you have a child with ASD or Asperger's that can carry on a conversation.

Yes, to an extent. If it is something he is interested in, he is verbal enough to talk about it, answer questions, etc. He will also initiate interaction with others, which is something many kids with autism won't do. And Aspie, yeah, there isn't a verbal "delay" as such, and especially if it is a topic of interest, there might be some awkwardness in knowing the social norms, but conversation is do-able.

Have you considered seeing a DAN dr? Have you done any allergy testing or metals testing? That's the direction I'd head. http://www.autismwebsite.com/practitioners/us_lc.htm I see there isn't one listed in Idaho, but there are a couple in Utah. Even if it's not autism or Aspie, a DAN visit would be an eye-opener.
 
What type of professionals have you had the most success with? J has seen 2 general pediatricians, 2 child psychiatrists, 1 child psychologist, 1 family therapist, and 1 behavioral pediatrician. I've been told the University of Utah may be able to help by his therapist, but I can't really afford to go specialist shopping :lmao:

Do you think that this would be your next step? Do any of you have a child with ASD or Asperger's that can carry on a conversation. This seems to be what stops the diagnosis of ASD or something else. I feel that with all of his diagnoses that there should a root to all of these problems that hasn't been identified. Thanks, for your stories and support. Please share, I am hungry to hear about others in my similar situation.

We got a decent diagnosis from a developmental pediatrician. Although he diagnosed my younger daughter with autism after asking a whopping ten questions! :confused3 I guess she was pretty obviously autistic!

Do you have a video camera? That's a GREAT tool for showing what REALLY happens in your house instead of counting on the 10 minutes of interaction with the doctor to get a diagnosis.
 
Do you think that this would be your next step? Do any of you have a child with ASD or Asperger's that can carry on a conversation.

Oh yes, my older daughter can carry on a conversation just fine. But she does get confused a lot since she takes everything so literally. She's clueless when it comes to verbal jokes. She's at the age when knock knock jokes are popular and she doesn't understand them at all. It's so weird.
 
Thank you for the editting as now I can sit here in my sleepy daze and understand everything. I have over 30 things wrong with me from dandruff to celiac and probably more.

It is frustrating when you are told something that contradicts what you know. I had a doctor tell me my sugars were normal and then a half hour later they were in the 80's. I went to a doctor who was more intereest in my dandruff than my lack of female testing and my illnesses. I got sick in an doctor's office while waiting for 4 hours for him to realize my old friend had pneuomonia. It took a couple days once for them to realize he had a skull fracture.

I do not have a child but based on what i have read on these boards your son probably is autistic. Yes, people can learn to use their limitations to their advantage. Disorders can look like other things. My celiac causes malabsorbtion which can lead to hair loss, dry skin, bad teeth, poor healing, racing pulse, bloating, and poor vision. If treated alone each would be a sign of other things like IBS, psoriasis, and nerves. It is frustating that I know something is wrong but doctors cannot see that something is wrong.

I think bookwormde has the best advice. Also try another doctor as giving a kid meds will calm the child but in the long run will not help the child with what it needs most. You need to know the triggers and what is going on with the kid. Giving the kid drugs is like putting a bandaid on an infected foot without first seeing and removing the sliver. As for the frustration you are not alone as many of us at some point in our lives face the bureaucracy and the medical field and are left at the point of tears or anger.

I doubt what i said makes sense.
hugs biggest hugs
prayers
Laurie
 
I can relate. My son is quite similar (no potty training problems, but much of the same stuff otherwise), and we are pursuing an ASD diagnosis. For him, he was in pretty much non-stop freakout from age 3.5 to age 5.5 or so, and it was hard to tell what the heck was going on with him. We were lucky enough to find some good providers who weren't ready to jump to conclusions about bipolar, and now that we've started treating his SPD (after a bad eval that said he was fine with that--now that we're dealing with a real sensory-trained OT is has been the single most transformative therapy we've tried), and as he grows and gets a little more stable, we're able to see more of what's going on, and I'm thinking it's AS or PDD-NOS. We're going to see an autism specialist for a neuropsych and educational eval in May. His current diagnoses are NVLD (nonverbal learning disability), ADHD, SPD, GAD. He meets the criteria for ODD but hasn't been medically labeled that way.

I'd definitely travel to see a neuropsych or developmental ped, or anyone who SPECIALIZES in autism eval. Check the Autism Speaks website or any autism organization in your state (or nearby) for recommendations. I hadn't really realized that autism organizations usually have helping people with diagnoses as part of their missions.

Like me, you definitely need more answers that you're getting. I often have moments when I wonder what's wrong with me and why it's all happening. It's okay to indulge in those thoughts for a few minutes but remember that you're the person who is fighting for your son. Take a deep breath, remember who YOU know you are (not who the school or the doctor or whomever thinks you are) and move on until you get an answer that puts all the pieces together for you, or at least helps you move forward. Whether the answer for either of us is an ASD diagnosis, the fact is that what we know now isn't enough. Sometimes it's a matter of time and growth before we can know for sure (I read somewhere that the average age of asperger's diagnosis is 8--I think NVLD is even later than that!), but we're not going to stop looking.

Hang in there, and keep looking for answers.

C

PS: I'm a google geek, what can I say. Here are some places in start in your region:

http://www.autismnwaf.org/idaho.htm
http://www.idahocenterforautism.com/
http://www.asatvc.org/
http://www.angelfire.com/id/aspergersupport/
http://health.idahostatesman.com/2007/story.php?id=61

Some of these have dead links, but hopefully you'll find some help here. If I were you, I would look for someone on one of these sites who looks like she knows her stuff (a parent or professional advocate) with a contact email or phone number and just get in touch. See what she can tell you. Good luck!
 
I'm late to this, but just wanted to say try calling the Star Center in Denver, CO. www.starcenter.us If anyone can figure out your son's sensory issues they can. The director, Dr. Lucy Jane Miller, wrote Sensational Kids, and that book might give you some ideas in the meantime.

Good luck in your search!

Cathy

DD 7 years
DS 3.5 years
 
I'm late to this, but just wanted to say try calling the Star Center in Denver, CO. www.starcenter.us If anyone can figure out your son's sensory issues they can. The director, Dr. Lucy Jane Miller, wrote Sensational Kids, and that book might give you some ideas in the meantime.
Hi. :welcome: to disABILITIES and thank you for your post. It seems to be an excellent resource which people will find useful here.
 
Thank you for the sparkly welcome. I've been reading a lot here about IEPs trying to get all the terms down as we slog through the process. I just happen to know more than I'd like about the sensory stuff, and thought I'd try to help a little. The Star Center is a wonderful place with a very experienced staff.

Cathy

DD 7 years
DS 3.5 years
 
I'd like to take him in unmedicated, but I can't do that to him. I imagine he must feel horrible without his meds.


First, :grouphug:

I have three special needs kids. What stood out from your posts to me, was that you feel that the doctor's are handing out diag. to make you shut up, as I believe you wrote.

If the docs aren't really hitting the nail on the head with the correct diag, then maybe the medications that your ds is on, aren't the right ones for him.

He might feel terrible off of meds as his body is used to them and how they affect him on a daily basis. Removing the meds by yourself is not at all a good or safe way to go- I know you didn't say you were going to do this, here are my thoughts on the subject.

You probably know our bodies become dependent on those meds and loads of meds need to be weaned off not just stopped. So, a doc will need to be cooperating with you on this matter. I have extensive experience in this area of kids, meds and mis-diagnoses, not with my childen but my work experience evaluations with special needs kids on all kinds of meds.

It's easy to sit here and dish out suggestions, we've all had as many as we can stand, especially about behavior issues and parenting skills.

Is it possible to pick a non-school time like summer, to wean him off of all of his meds and start with a clean slate?

I know this is major and really frightening to think about but he may feel horrible with his meds if he is being medicated wrongly.

It does sound as if the docs in your area are not finding the answers that you need to help your ds. I'm thinking that you might be able to find help centers elsewhere, for example: Mayo, National Instute of Health, National Jewish Center, and Scribbs, Some of these places will observe and investigate for free, they might work with you on the temporary, no meds. and when he is med free, they could evalute him as he is, not as the meds make him be?:confused3

I hope I haven't upset you in any way, I just wanted to share my thoughts on what I read out of your posts.

Whatever you do, just remember you are not alone in these exeriences :hug: .
 
Yeah, that is a problem. If a child is already on meds, especially strong ones, then goes to a different doctor... there isn't a good frame of reference... but the alternative of pulling them off the meds doesn't seem good either.

We are sort of going thru this now. Switching to a different DAN doc but we've already started the process. So the new doc doesn't know the "before" except for what I describe. And the lab tests. When we ran the allergy testing, he had to be off of all the extra meds and supplements for a week, and it was a long and horrible week, only proving to me more that we were on the right track.

And I think after being on a med for a while, or having a condition for a while, you kinda forget the "before". Justin had awful eczema, and he'd had it almost since birth. Well then it was just the past Sept that we realized there was a yeast problem and started meds for that. We didn't do it for the eczema, but within a couple of weeks the eczema was gone! Now, some six months later, he got a rash on his hand. The doc and I are both freaking about it, trying to get rid of it. A year ago we would have thought one rash on one hand was a very good day. The ante has been upped. As time passes, you forget things or don't remember them exactly the same.
 



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