OT: ease my mind about immunizations!

[AndyLL]

I think you are correct about the flu shot:

http://asthma.about.com/b/2007/12/1...tory-in-nj-preschools-day-care-facilities.htm



This is the Prevnar shot - it's been around for a while. Also called Pneumovax 23 by Merck. It has a lot of aluminum in it - 125 micrograms (no more than 25 micrograms is the limit for newborn babies, just to give you a sense of how much that is. There is no limit set by the american academy of pediatrics for older children, that Dr. Sears could find in his research).

One in 20,000 infants may have a seizure after this vaccine.

I'm not sure that the above is the Pnemonia vaccine they are talking about, but it seems like it is.

Here's more about the vaccination: http://www.njha.com/cs/pneumoniavacprogram.aspx

Are you saying NJ requires Pneumovax 23? Merck does not recommend this vaccine for under < 2years and say no studies have been done at a younger age then 2.

http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/p/pneumovax_23/pneumovax_pi.pdf

Andy

 

[BeckyScott]

As far as the schools go... yes, some states don't do exemptions the same way as others. But you do always have a choice.

You can home-school. You can move. You can hire a lawyer and try to fight it.

None of those options are easy or cheap, but if you have a strong conviction...

The day that my state mandates vaccines with no exemptions is the day that I start home-schooling, or that we start shopping for a new place to live.

As Angelica pointed out, there are parents who just don't prioritize their children. Those parents are not the ones that will be filing exemption, though, because doing that requires work on the parents part. When I wanted to do one, it took me about five phone calls and a lecture from each one, to even find out where to pick up "the card" to fill out. And when I arrived at the right spot, the receptionist looked at me like I was from Mars, and went for a nurse, who insisted on standing there holding onto the card while she gave another lecture. A semi-negligent parent isn't going to bother.

I do find it funny, though (and funny-scary as opposed to funny-ha-ha) that like right now the school district is sending out PR about kg enrollment for the fall. Every piece of PR they have states that students must have their shots up-to-date. Period. But there is clearly a law in our state that allows for religious and medical exemption. I think it's false advertising, or something like that, it's like a trick. If you didn't know any better, you'd think you had no choice, when in fact you do. I don't know why the school is allowed to put on all their forms that shots are required, when the truth is they're not.

 

[maymom96]

Lie on the shot cards an fill out the information yourself. The last time I checked, all the card had to have was the date the shot was gave. It maybe wrong, but when a parent is backed into the corner what else can you do when you feel strongly about something.

 

[Laxmom]

If I had to do it again, I wouldn't.

My boss has never had his three children immunized. He feels the risks outweigh the benefits. He has waivers on file at the school. His oldest is in
6th grade and the youngest is K. He has never been given any grief at all about his decision.

 

[mefordis]

I've been following this thread with great interest since Mason is due for his 12 month shots next month. DH has a Masters in BioChemistry (so in my mind a better understanding than I do of the research data) so I have asked him to do some more research on the vaccines so we can make an informed decision about delaying Mason's shots.

My oldest DD (now 14) was hospitalized with Rotavirus when she was 7 months old so when the vaccine came along I had my DD9 and DS both vaccinated against that. DD14 had a reaction to the first DTP shot so she received DT only or DTaP for the rest of the series and doesn't have "full" immunity to Pertussis.

DD9 had the varicella vaccine and had a mild case of chicken pox anyway.

Is there such a thing as an unbiased book about vaccinations? We are headed to the library and I would love some recommendations on the "just the facts" books if those do exist.

The Dr. Sears Vaccination Book is not biased. He is all about the facts.

 

[Leonsmom]

Lie on the shot cards an fill out the information yourself. The last time I checked, all the card had to have was the date the shot was gave. It maybe wrong, but when a parent is backed into the corner what else can you do when you feel strongly about something.

our schools require a form filled out, signed and stamped by the doctor each year

 

[mefordis]

If I had to do it again, I wouldn't.

My boss has never had his three children immunized. He feels the risks outweigh the benefits. He has waivers on file at the school. His oldest is in
6th grade and the youngest is K. He has never been given any grief at all about his decision.

There are a handful of states like MI and Ohio who are lax and let you sign waivers, don't grill you. Then there are a whole slew of them who are "all or nothing" states. Meaning, if you want to take the religious exemption, you can't get any of the shots. This makes it impossible to pick and choose. One state that is all or nothing is NJ.

 

[mefordis]

Are you saying NJ requires Pneumovax 23? Merck does not recommend this vaccine for under < 2years and say no studies have been done at a younger age then 2.

http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/p/pneumovax_23/pneumovax_pi.pdf

Andy

I'm not sure, I could be wrong. I am reading that the flu shot and Pneumonia shot is now mandatory for children in daycare and preschool in NJ and FL. I'm thinking I have my info mixed up. If anyone can clarify what the "Pnemonia" shot is, that would be great.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/477143/mandatory_flu_shots_for_preschoolers.html

 

[mefordis]

you do not have to belong to a specific religion. That changed in the 80's (but don't try to tell my school district - they prefer to mislead people with the old wording!!!). You only have to have a "sincerely held personal religious belief" - or wording to that effect. You used to have to belong to a specific church or have a note from a clergy - that sort of thing. The courts found that to question or hold someones beliefs up to those kind of restrictions was religious persecution ...I am not wording that well, but you get the idea!

this and/or a waiver is all you need to attend public school in many states. Most schools are not interested in pursuing it further and I don't blame them.

I think it is wrong to put this in the schools arena. This means administrators are practicing medicine without a license. To pursue it means to expend the schools resources on something they should not be forced to deal with!!!! Just wrong on so many levels.

I think the gov't realizes that they can't mandate vaccines, so they came up with this. They give people the idea that you HAVE to have them for your child to attend school, which is not true for the most part.

What bothers me most is that in many states, if you take the religious exemption, you cannot have a single shot. Therefore, if you are against the injection of animal or human products into your child based on religious reasons, you cannot get the other shots that don't contain them. It's all or nothing. You could probably challenge it with a lawyer, but like you stated, it's expensive and also stressful.

 

[Lisa_M]

The Baby Book is by Dr. William Sears (I love all of his books!).

The book the PP is talking about is by Dr. Robert Sears.

lol ok, Robert Sears is William Sears' son right? I think I read in The Baby Book that he had a son who was a physician also. Sorry, I guess I had them confused. It's all Sears in my mind

 

[Minniemouse07]

That was EXACTLY what I was thinking! Thank you for saying it!! I am very surprised your day care allowed your child to attend.

ETA: The first comment is not directed to the woman with the child who had whooping cough. Just in general to people who do not vaccinate....but I am asking the woman with the child with whooping cough how the day care allowed that. It is right in our handbook that they can not come back until it is gone.

We have the same stipulation in our handbook, and it is the same at dd's elementary school (she had whooping cough the year before she started K)

Dd actually was fully vaxed with the DTaP (the P is Pertussis aka whooping cough) but she got it anyway. Whooping cough is only contagious during the first 2-3 weeks you have it... and most of that time it just looks like a cold (congestion, runny nose, light coughing). The hard coughing doesn't start for 2-3 weeks after you are contagious so by the time it is generally diagnosed... you are past the window. The coughing from whooping cough can last up to a year after you have the disease, although it lessens in severity over time. Dd coughed hard for about 2mo and had a lingering cough for about 2 more.

So day care didn't ban her from attending because she was no longer contagious by the time it was diagnosed (she had been coughing for over 2mo by then... the dr had thought it was seasonal allergies ).

The reason I mentioned day care in my post was because no one else had it. Not at day care, not in my mom's group...we have no idea where dd got it from!

 

[mefordis]

We have the same stipulation in our handbook, and it is the same at dd's elementary school (she had whooping cough the year before she started K)

Dd actually was fully vaxed with the DTaP (the P is Pertussis aka whooping cough) but she got it anyway. Whooping cough is only contagious during the first 2-3 weeks you have it... and most of that time it just looks like a cold (congestion, runny nose, light coughing). The hard coughing doesn't start for 2-3 weeks after you are contagious so by the time it is generally diagnosed... you are past the window. The coughing from whooping cough can last up to a year after you have the disease, although it lessens in severity over time. Dd coughed hard for about 2mo and had a lingering cough for about 2 more.

So day care didn't ban her from attending because she was no longer contagious by the time it was diagnosed (she had been coughing for over 2mo by then... the dr had thought it was seasonal allergies ).

The reason I mentioned day care in my post was because no one else had it. Not at day care, not in my mom's group...we have no idea where dd got it from!

Isn't it frustrating when you get all of your vaccinations and STILL get the disease?

 

[katerkat]

There are a handful of states like MI and Ohio who are lax and let you sign waivers, don't grill you. Then there are a whole slew of them who are "all or nothing" states. Meaning, if you want to take the religious exemption, you can't get any of the shots. This makes it impossible to pick and choose. One state that is all or nothing is NJ.

WA doesn't grill you. I have a waiver on file at the doctor's office and when I need a copy, I just run by and grab one. And it's a personal exemption, not religious, so I can object to whatever shots I want. (Which is only varicella and flu.)

 

[mefordis]

WA doesn't grill you. I have a waiver on file at the doctor's office and when I need a copy, I just run by and grab one. And it's a personal exemption, not religious, so I can object to whatever shots I want. (Which is only varicella and flu.)

You get to enjoy PHilisophical exemptions. Our Pharm lobby is strong. NJ should be called the pharmeceutical state. Corzine has them in his pocket, no doubt. I think I'll start voting republican locally -- maybe they will will help keep the drug companies out of my home.

 

[Minniemouse07]

Isn't it frustrating when you get all of your vaccinations and STILL get the disease?

Dd was selectively vaxed..but I was really concerned about whooping cough so DTaP was one of the vaxes that I made sure she got.

It also turned out it was the only one (out of the ones she received) that she reacted to. Each time she received the shot she got a HUGE lump in her leg at the inoculation site. Every time it was larger than the last one and lasted longer. The last one, the lump lasted for FOUR months! The pediatrician told us that it was a "normal reaction" to the shot.

So for me to put dd through all of that and then end up w/ her getting the disease anyway... put me over the edge.

I am definitely not anti-vaccine (you may have that impression reading my posts) I am all for it if it is the right thing for you and your family.

I am pro-education. I feel that there isn't enough information given to parents before their children are vaccinated. I mean really...how many parents even think of it before their child's birth? And then their brand new baby gets the Hep B shot before they even leave the hospital!

The information provided if a parents asks any questions (at least in the ped offices we've been too..3 of them) is generally the CDC info sheet for that vaccine. The info sheet is woefully inadequate when explaining the pros AND CONS of the vaccine.

There really needs to be better information, better studies done (if you watched Jenny McCarthy on Larry King...she spoke about the bill in Congress that would mandate a large scale study comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated children) and communication about ALL of the risks and benefits of vaccinations...not just the publicity spins put on them by the manufacturers and the AAP/CDC.

 

[LanaJae]

I meant to mention this earlier.

We had a polio outbreak in Minnesota 2 years ago. It was near where I used to live, in an Amish community. It was the strain used in oral polio and last I heard, they believe it was shed by a vaccinated person from another country (because the US quit using oral polio in 2000). The Amish there do shop in stores like Fleet Farm and there are migrant farm workers in the area.

That strain can circulate among healthy people for many years and mutate to the wild version. This same area had a polio outbreak in a public school about 35 years ago and I worked with parents who's children developed polio, one was in a wheelchair and another lost limbs. If I remember correctly, one of the older kids brought it home from school and and the younger kids got it. This was probably around the time when kids were vaccinated in school.

 

[GOOFY4DONALD]

If you had a seizure that almost killed you that you firmly believed was caused by a vaccine, why, when it came time for your chld to have the same vaccination, did you not do the research? You went through an experience of doctors almost killing you, and yet you repeated the procedure with your kid. Something for me does not make sense here. Is there more to the story?

I have been away from my computer but I think that this needs to be answered. If I almost died...why did I give my youngest the first vaccine? Because I blindly trusted the doctor. I was was 22 when I had my first and I was bullied into it. I was told that the vaccines from when I were young (1977) were not the same and the vaccines of 1997. I was young and stupid. I thought that if a doctor tells me something it must be right because they were after all doctors. After this happened I had to be my own child's advocate. And to the woman that said she thinks that there are others that care as much about her kids as she does..I hope she just wrote that down wrong. There is no one else on the planet that could care about the well being of my children as much as I do. To doctors, teachers, etc they do care about my kids but my kids are just a few that they care about.

 

[mommymonster]

I vaxed my first child fully but my second child I had 6 yrs to research and chose at this time to delay and think about it for another year. I BF and she isn't in daycare so she is at little risk to get any diseases.

Lisa

 

[DVCLiz]

I have been away from my computer but I think that this needs to be answered. If I almost died...why did I give my youngest the first vaccine? Because I blindly trusted the doctor. I was was 22 when I had my first and I was bullied into it. I was told that the vaccines from when I were young (1977) were not the same and the vaccines of 1997. I was young and stupid. I thought that if a doctor tells me something it must be right because they were after all doctors. After this happened I had to be my own child's advocate. And to the woman that said she thinks that there are others that care as much about her kids as she does..I hope she just wrote that down wrong. There is no one else on the planet that could care about the well being of my children as much as I do. To doctors, teachers, etc they do care about my kids but my kids are just a few that they care about.

No, I didn't write it down wrong. While I do think parents LOVE their own children more than anyone else, I think it's fair to say that there are many people in the helping professions such as medicine and teaching who care every bit as much about the health, sfety and welfare of your children as you do. In fact, from some of the parenting decisions I've seen in real life and on the DIS as well, sometimes I think those types of people care MORE. Just my opinion...

 

[Starburst]

I've skipped around a lot in the thread, but wanted to add in a few points.

No link b/t vaccines and autism has ever been proven in a medical journal, though the media seems to have a different opinion. Jenny McCarthy mentioned on Larry King that the child of a friend of hers developed autism after a Hep C vaccine, though no such vaccine exists.

The disease these vaccinations protect against are SERIOUS and we tend to lose sight of that - who is the last person you've seen with meningitis caused by H.influenzae? One poster commented that if you have a good doctor, you can treat those. Some diseases advance too quickly for even the best physician to prevent lifelong damage. I also don't know of a single physician who "slept through the classes because everyone gets vaccinated now." These diseases still show up on EVERY board exam physicians take before getting liscensed.

The slippery slope theorem of "everyone else's kids are vaccinated so I don't have to worry since they won't give my kid the disease" has major flaws - you can't continue to protect kids if EVERYONE develops that attitude. How do you decide which kids should be the ones to get vaccinated? You'll eventually come across someone who has been to a country where these diseases are still endemic and who can then pass it along.

This isn't meant to cause flames in this topic. I think there is A LOT of misinformation distributed about this topic. Almost all the mercury in vaccines were removed a number of years ago, yet the rate of autism keeps rising. That argues against a link. I personally believe that since verbal skills start around 12 months of age, which does correlate with immunizations, that most people opt to believe one caused the other - its easier sometimes to have a scapegoat, a cause. The alternative explanation, that its most likely caused by a complexity of factors that we don't yet completely understand isn't sufficient. This is not meant to mitigate what parents of autistic children go through - it takes incredible strength of character to persevere and I have the utmost respect for those who do it day in and day out.

Just my opinion.