OT: DS turns 5 end of July so Kindergarten or no Kindergarten

[Aristomommy]

This is an excellent post. I completely agree with you. Part of kindergarten is learning social skills. I was a younger kid in K. End of Oct. birthday here. I can tell you with absolute certainty that my social skills would not have been any different if my parents held me back a year. I was a shy kid. I stopped being shy around 8th grade. Holding me back was not going to change that. Unless of course I started kindergarten at 13. I do think each parent has to make the decision that is best for the child but I do have to agree that holding a kid back because "he's small" is a little over the top for me. JMHO of course.

ETA- I also don't want my children in a class of 6 year olds when they are 5. They are in that class because they're 5.

I agree with your post as well. In DDs class, she has always been the youngest by 6 months or more (she was an early entrance to Kindergarten). I never imagined that she would have several boys that were 2 years older than she is!!! DD turned 9 in Nov. and one boy celebrated his 11th birthday last month. Others will turn 11 between now and May. All the boys are in the gifted programs with DD, so it can't be an academic thing.

What I don't understand is that when some children are held back a year, how teachers then point out the immaturity of the younger classmates. Some behaviors are age specific and others are not. DD has always been disorganized, her desk is a mess and papers may be wrinkled. Unfortunately I would like this to improve with age, but so fas it hasn't. But some teachers like to point this out and call it an age thing, since she is doing more than fine academically. Maybe teachers expectations change as more and more kids are held back and that becomes the new norm.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I know I am going to get flamed for this but I have to get this out.

I cannot believe that people want to hold their kids back because they are smaller than other kids. Are you kidding? People come in all sizes. So do kids. Then parents are so thrilled when their kids become leaders instead of being shy etc. Well if you were a year and a half older than everyone else in class of course you would be a leader. It is a natural progression. I understand wanting our children to have the best experience and yes, some kids do need more time but I truly don't believe that all of these children need more time. JMHO. Some people mention motor skill issues etc. Well even if you have another year, without the proper training (ie therapy) to help those issues if they are so bad they are not going to correct themself. Others mention that their kids can't read or write. That is also not an issue. Our K teacher said that some kids came in doing that stuff and some didn't. Either way by the end of the year they would all be doing it and she is right. Of course she is an awesome teacher who has truly found her calling. If my child was in a class full of 6 year olds I would be pretty annoyed. My kid is working age appropriately and it won't come across so because all the other kids are significantly older. That is not right. I spoke to someone the other day and she is holding her child back. He is an October birthday. Her reason? Boys with October birthdays are dumb and all she can think about is a 17 year old doing keg stands at college! Well, I have a boy with an October birthday and I can assure you he is anything but dumb. He will be going on time. I was a late October birthday and I have never even done a keg stand and I was 17 starting college. But that is neither her nor there. Some people mention having and advantage with sports as well. Is that really right when some kids work so hard and just because your kid is older they may have an advantage? Let me repeat that I do think there are some kids who should be lept back but to be honest, most of the reasons that I see here are not real reasons. JMHO of course and well, we all have one.

Disclaimer-
I am not singling anyone out. I am just making a generalization based on my overview of the responses on the subject.

 

[Tiger926]

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[Aneille]

Mouse House Mama - I agree with you!

Unless a teacher tells you that you may want to think about holding your child out of K for a year, then I think you should send your kid. The worst that can happen is that they repeat K. They will not remember it, it will not scar them for life. And heck you don't have to pay for K if your kid is going to public.

Its not fair to a child like mine. She too is an end of July bday. She is tiny for her age (about the 10% in height). She will be going to K next year. If everyone holds their kids back then my kid suffers. Not only is she small compared to her peers but now she even looks smaller since the kids are 1+ years older than she is. That is the physical aspect, but it applies to the academics and the social aspects as well. She will be compared to kids that should be in the 1st grade!

When she joins the soccer team this Fall, in our town you must be in K, it does not go by birthyear, their will be kids a full year older. She'll just be 5 and they will be 6+.

Someone has to be the youngest in each class, the kids will get through it, but lets not make it so that the youngest in the class has kids more than full year older than them.

I have another DD in K this year. She is early Nov. birthday so she is an older kid in her class. So I have seen how being older is a good thing. She is a leader and she is doing well academically but guess what, she still struggles with sitting still and focusing. So holding your kids back doesn't guarentee it will be any better.

My younger DD is better at sitting still, better at focusing then my older DD, but she is not socially as mature.

All kids have different strengths and weaknessess. Just send them when they should unless a professional tells you otherwise.

 

[toesmom]

This is a very interesting topic for me as I'm a Special Education teacher here in Ontario, Canada, and mom to a Montessori dynamo (my 4.5 yr old very bright child who has been in fulltime Montessori since age 14 months).

Here in my Ontario city, JK students must be 4 by end of December, and SK must be 5 by end of December. There are no changes to this rule - kindergarten is not mandatory, but children must be in school by age 6 according to our laws (private, public or homeschool). So, if I 'redshirted' my child as you all are allowed to do, it would do no good as when my daughter is 6, she would be placed in grade 1 in public school, and not in the grade she missed.

None of this is relavant in my case, as I have the oppposite problem. My daughter is very bright - she started her Casa level program in Montessori at age 2.5 years old, which meant she was in class with 3, 4, 5 & 6 year olds. For any of you who don't know anything about Montessori, it works on the multi-age learning philosophy that so many of you don't want for your kids. Kids learn very well from multi age peers as long as they are in a good educational programs. I cringe when I read of teachers who say they don't want 4 or 5 year olds in kindergarten -ummm, that's the age of kindergarten children. This is more than likely because this means more work for these teachers - in my spec. ed. classes I have multi age learners as well, and it's a lot of work, but it is, what it is.

In my DD's case, she has already mastered the SK curriculum and some of the grade 1 curriculum at age 4, as well, she has great social skills (little quirks that are common with kids of this age), so she does well in this multi age situation, but she also has incredible teachers who are continually monitoring and tweaking things to ensure that the multi age learning is always optimal for those kids. In involves work, but so does everything related to children. If she were in public school, she would be in JK, and she mastered most of that curriculum by age 2.5. I wasn't nervous about her being with older kids at all, as she has been in an educational setting since 14 months old.

For me as a spec. ed. teacher I know more than anyone that everyone learns differently, and so just because you are 4 yrs. old, it doesn't mean you are like the 4 year old child sitting next to you. I always encourage parents who have children to think of their child's educational pathways when they are born - make sure they are in preschool, daycare, or private school such as Montessori, Waldorf, etc. as it will only enhance their cognitive and social skills. For those who are stay at home moms, remember to continualy challenge your kids, as well as provide them with multiple social skill situations, such as those from preschool, so that you are always readying your children for their school starts.

Ages 0-6 years old are the most important years in anyone's life, so good luck with all of your hard decisions.

Tiger

I've read this post and I'm sure I'm not the only mom out there who thought I can't believe a 14 month old was in full time montessori program. If I registered my now ds4 in this type of program at age 14 months and paid the fees associated with them, I bet anything he would have mastered the full SK and part of Grade 1 program by the time he was his age now.

Most parents consider this idea of such early early early education to be very extreme. Sorry and I don't think this is just my opinion. I don't think a 14 month old belongs in that type of setting. 2-1/2 probably. But 14 months?

These parents are actually questioning children at kindergarten age, so I think the option of such early education is not even an issue.

Most parents will agree that children under 2 do not need to be in an educational-type program, and are better suited being home with mom or with grandparents. And I'm sure I am not the only one with that opinion.

Again, I would only expect a child who has been in a full-time academic environment since the age of 1 to have mastered an SK program. That doesn't make the child bright; it just means you got your money's worth.

 

[hmacmahony]

NO offense, really, but I held my oldest, and will hold the other three as well (they are all within days, to a few weeks of the cutoff).
As far as me holding my child back, and it affecting your child, really I don't care. I am doing what is BEST FOR MY CHILD, not what is best for your child. We put a lot of thought, time, and research into our decesion, and are 100% happy with it.
My oldest started Kindergarten this year, she was 6 right after it started, she is NOT the oldest at all. In my district kindergarteners are pushed very hard during the day academically. Kindergarten is not the same as it was when I went many years ago, most days my kid does not even get play time, they have been outside once (they are also half days), and gym once a week, so, there is lots of work time. She did go into kindergarten reading, but has not been bored once, I work with her at home to challenge her.
You need to sit and really talk with teachers, (everyone we talked to in our district recommened holding a year), look at the curriculum, is it full or half day, ask the school district if most people hold or send their kids, and most of all go with your gut.
I firmly believe giving my child an extra year to be a CHILD, to play, and have very little commitments, will never hurt her. Kids grow up way to fast as it is, and I know we did what was best for my child.
Good luck, it is a hard decesion, but if you do your research, and listen to your heat, you will find what is best for you and your child.

 

[Tiger926]

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[Aneille]

NO offense, really, but I held my oldest, and will hold the other three as well (they are all within days, to a few weeks of the cutoff).
As far as me holding my child back, and it affecting your child, really I don't care. I am doing what is BEST FOR MY CHILD, not what is best for your child. We put a lot of thought, time, and research into our decesion, and are 100% happy with it.
My oldest started Kindergarten this year, she was 6 right after it started, she is NOT the oldest at all. In my district kindergarteners are pushed very hard during the day academically. Kindergarten is not the same as it was when I went many years ago, most days my kid does not even get play time, they have been outside once (they are also half days), and gym once a week, so, there is lots of work time. She did go into kindergarten reading, but has not been bored once, I work with her at home to challenge her.
You need to sit and really talk with teachers, (everyone we talked to in our district recommened holding a year), look at the curriculum, is it full or half day, ask the school district if most people hold or send their kids, and most of all go with your gut.
I firmly believe giving my child an extra year to be a CHILD, to play, and have very little commitments, will never hurt her. Kids grow up way to fast as it is, and I know we did what was best for my child.
Good luck, it is a hard decesion, but if you do your research, and listen to your heat, you will find what is best for you and your child.

Your children missed the cut-off by days, not months. To me that is a huge difference. Your children are still within the normal range for the grade. But there are parents that are holding back kids that have months between the cut-offs.

I understand the philosophy that you should do what is best for YOUR kids, but that is how we got in this mess. Now altough I feel my kid is ready to handle being in a class with her peers, I know have to decide if she is ready to be in a class with kids that are not her peers (kids with bdays months after the cut-off).

So should I add to the problem and not send my kid? Hey, I've thought about it. I spoke to her pre-k teacher and she told me if she wasn't doing well academically, she might suggest it. But she said although she's shy, she's interacting, having fun and learning. So she's going.

My point isn't that some kids aren't benefiting from the extra year, or that some kids really should repeat a year, but my philosphy is that a teacher should suggest it. I don't agree with taking all parental rights away but we need to work with the teachers. Why does the State have cut-off's if no one is going to follow them anyway?

It just seems from many of the examples here many people are just holding back for the sake of holding bac. They don't have real reason.

 

[brymolmom]

NO offense, really, but I held my oldest, and will hold the other three as well (they are all within days, to a few weeks of the cutoff).
As far as me holding my child back, and it affecting your child, really I don't care. I am doing what is BEST FOR MY CHILD, not what is best for your child. We put a lot of thought, time, and research into our decesion, and are 100% happy with it.
My oldest started Kindergarten this year, she was 6 right after it started, she is NOT the oldest at all. In my district kindergarteners are pushed very hard during the day academically. Kindergarten is not the same as it was when I went many years ago, most days my kid does not even get play time, they have been outside once (they are also half days), and gym once a week, so, there is lots of work time. She did go into kindergarten reading, but has not been bored once, I work with her at home to challenge her.
You need to sit and really talk with teachers, (everyone we talked to in our district recommened holding a year), look at the curriculum, is it full or half day, ask the school district if most people hold or send their kids, and most of all go with your gut.
I firmly believe giving my child an extra year to be a CHILD, to play, and have very little commitments, will never hurt her. Kids grow up way to fast as it is, and I know we did what was best for my child.
Good luck, it is a hard decesion, but if you do your research, and listen to your heat, you will find what is best for you and your child.

If you wanted the extra year for your child to play - why did he/she go into K reading?

And I know you don't care about my child - but just remember that those of us who followed the guidelines of cutoff dates will not necessarily care about your child when we encourage the teacher to teach 4 and 5 year old academics...and I find it difficult to believe an already-reading child won't be bored with learning ABC's and doing C-A-T spells cat. So as long as you are OK with only challenging your child at home, I guess we'll get along fine. My child's K teacher will have a VERY difficult time with me if he/she attempts to teach 1st grade material in the classroom for those kids who really should be in 1st but whose parents have OPTED to put them into a younger learning environment.

 

[okworbust]

Hello,

I have quite a bit of experience in this area - I was born in December and back then the cutoff was 12/31 so I was in school for 4 months at the age of 4!

During my school years - sometimes it was harder to keep up - but the big difference comes in Middle/High school - remember your child will ALWAYS be one of the last to do something that all of their peers are doing. Smallest size - not picked first round for sports, last to hit adolescence (boys facial hair, girls breasts, period etc.) last to drive - I was through an entire semester of COLLEGE before I turned 18 and could drive in NY after 9pm! Pretty embarassing when you are out of school and mommy and daddy still have to pick you up from your night job.

Both my husband and I experienced this - he was October. SO when we had a November baby we decided based on our experience to keep him back until he was 5 going on 6 and it has been great for both him and for us to see him not struggle with issues that we did being the youngest in our classes.

I believe that your child will not suffer with another year of childhood - the problems come when they are not doing well and you have to either keep them back at an older age and when they are aware that they are being held back - or watch them struggle through academics and social settings due to their age.

JMHO

 

[MM27]

My birthday is at the end of August. I started K the year that I turned 5 and was 5 all through K. I was always a top student and never had any problems in school.

My best friend's birthday was after the cutoff date of October 1st so he was actually 5 for September and October but then 6 for the rest of K and he had a lot of issues academically.

It's a personal choice based on maturity of the child as well as how academically "ready" the child is.

 

[KariC]

Really, OP (hi, from another Ohio girl)....I think the best thing to do in your situation is to meet with an educator at the school your child will be attending. Take that professional's advice, that has MET your child and spent time with them, over the advice on an internet board. I'm glad that this is what we've done.

For the record....we attempted to do this with our twins that have September birthdays. At all of the open houses we went to the spring before their PreK year, the majority of people told us to "wait", simply due to their birthdate and that one of the twins is a boy. Well, those reasons are, quite simply, not good enough for me. We ended up sending our twins to Montessori, as they were evaluated as individuals and were placed where it was appropriate for them to be (as 4 year olds, middle year of PrePrimary group at a Montessori school). They are in kindergarten now, and started the year as 4 year olds.

Obviously, Montessori for the preprimary years is not possible for the OP, but I encourage others to look into this method if at all possible!

I do worry about all of these redshirted little kids! It seems so bizarre to me....and it is interesting to think that college will be the great equalizer. Once there, students will socialize with, and take classes with, students across a broad age range based on their program....and not on when they turned 5 years old.

 

[jacksonsmom]

I went through this same situation.
My DS has an August birthday (8/11) and our cut off is September 1st. From the time he was born until he turned 5 I wasn't 100% sure what I was going to do.
The thing is he did wonderfully in preschool. He knew his letters, numbers, write his name, colors, even add some small numbers together. I had NO doubt he would do wonderfully in Kindergarten! He was even ready maturity in my opinion ready for Kindergarten.

So what did I do? I held him back

Not because I was worried about how he would do in Kindergarten or even in any of the elementary school years. I was thinking about when he is in middle school or high school. I feel it is better, especially for boys, to be one of the older ones then the younger ones. Not to mention school work in those grades are a lot harder then when we went to school.

My DS is currently in 2nd grade and is doing great. I don't feel he is bored. We have a great school system where they have an advance math class. It is where the students that need more challenges in math are invited to join the class with parents premission. They still have to do the regular math class work, but they get extra math assignments and work on figuring out problems with other children that are on the same level.
This year my son is the oldest in his class.
But in Kindergarten he wasn't, there was actually 2 kids older then him.
1st grade there was 1 kid older then him and one kid just a couple days younger then him.


I have NO REGRETS in waiting to start my son in schooling. I have talked to many, many parents and not one parents ever regrets waiting but I have talked to some parents that wish they WOULD have waited!
If I had to do it all over again I wouldn't even give it a second thought, I would wait another year.

GOOD LUCK with your decision.

 

[Pembo]

Another story...my friend had a ds who was turning 5 in August. She had decided NOT to send him to kindergarten until he was 6. He was her 3rd and she did not think he was ready.

They moved that summer to Delaware. The cut-off date was Dec 31 and it was mandated by LAW that she send him to Kindergarten. She very reluctantly sent him. Fast forward to the 3rd grade, he is very well-adjusted, doing great academically and socially.


And I am the parent who does not regret sending my young 5! I'm glad we didn't wait!!!!!

 

[dogluva]

NO offense, really, but I held my oldest, and will hold the other three as well (they are all within days, to a few weeks of the cutoff).
As far as me holding my child back, and it affecting your child, really I don't care. I am doing what is BEST FOR MY CHILD, not what is best for your child. We put a lot of thought, time, and research into our decesion, and are 100% happy with it.
My oldest started Kindergarten this year, she was 6 right after it started, she is NOT the oldest at all. In my district kindergarteners are pushed very hard during the day academically. Kindergarten is not the same as it was when I went many years ago, most days my kid does not even get play time, they have been outside once (they are also half days), and gym once a week, so, there is lots of work time. She did go into kindergarten reading, but has not been bored once, I work with her at home to challenge her.
You need to sit and really talk with teachers, (everyone we talked to in our district recommened holding a year), look at the curriculum, is it full or half day, ask the school district if most people hold or send their kids, and most of all go with your gut.
I firmly believe giving my child an extra year to be a CHILD, to play, and have very little commitments, will never hurt her. Kids grow up way to fast as it is, and I know we did what was best for my child.
Good luck, it is a hard decesion, but if you do your research, and listen to your heat, you will find what is best for you and your child.

Nice.

 

[odc146]

My son's birthday is also July 25. He started Kindergarten august 2007, so he is half way through his first year. We live in CA so the cutoff is December 1. I felt that he was ready to start academically and socially. I also recommend talking to the preschool teacher. At my son's preschool they did testing and recommendations. It sounds like from what you said he is ready academically. Only you know re: the social aspect, but they do learn some socialization in kindergarten that is different from preschool. Kindergarten is more structured. I also wanted to mention my youngest went to the same facility for daycare and then preschool. So he went to preschool full time from 3-5. My oldest is 14 and currently in 8th grade (just finished highscool registration, now that is a process ), anyway his birthday is Oct 2. We did decide to hold him until he turned six. Our reasoning was he was in a home daycare until he was 4, and then started preschool at 4. We felt the extra learning he did at preschool better prepared him to start K. Also I wasn't comfortable with the fact that if he went away to college right out of highschool, that he would only be 17 (he would leave for college August and not turn 18 until Oct!). I feel that both of my choices were good for each of my sons. It just shows that every child is different, and there isn't any perfect model or way to decide. Hope this helped. Good luck with your decision.

 

[dogluva]

If you wanted the extra year for your child to play - why did he/she go into K reading?

And I know you don't care about my child - but just remember that those of us who followed the guidelines of cutoff dates will not necessarily care about your child when we encourage the teacher to teach 4 and 5 year old academics...and I find it difficult to believe an already-reading child won't be bored with learning ABC's and doing C-A-T spells cat. So as long as you are OK with only challenging your child at home, I guess we'll get along fine. My child's K teacher will have a VERY difficult time with me if he/she attempts to teach 1st grade material in the classroom for those kids who really should be in 1st but whose parents have OPTED to put them into a younger learning environment.

Yes, this is the mother that will demand that her child be challenged when the reality of it is that she just wanted him home to play for one more year. Was there a real reason if he went to K reading? Ok, enough with the emotional/social stuff. How mature is a five year old supossed to be anyway? They mature being with other kids the same age (their peers).

But it is ok for my kids who developmentally ready to do the C-A-T thing have to take a back seat to all the older kids who stayed home for a year and can now read and write. I just don't get it. By the way, TWO of my kids were late birthday (one Nov) and I sent them. Not bragging, but they both did great.


So who is going to be the youngest?? Someone has to be that is a fact.

 

[hmacmahony]

I suppose you never read to your child? We are big readers here, and I know my child was not the only one in her kindy class who went in reading.
Also, her class spent a few weeks reviewing letters, but then jumped into full sight words, adding, subtracting, her kindergarten expects a lot out of their kids.
Her school has reading clubs, and all the kids fit into a club, some are working on letter sounds, my daughters club is working on words. If she finishes her work first while others are working, the are allowed to go to a center to keep busy.
Most teachers teach middle of the road, not for the youngest, not for the oldest, and a GOOD teacher will challenge all her students no matter where they stand. I am sorry your district seems to no do this.
We spoke many times with teachers in our district before we held our oldest a year, ALL of them prefer the parents to hold their kids so they are not the 4 starting kindergarten.
I did not hold my kids to give her and edge, to be the tallest, smartest, child in the class. I held her so that she would live up to her every potential, and how dare you tell me that the teacher should treat, and teach her any different than your child.
I hope your child never needs anything extra from a teacher, no wonder kids grow up with such a feeling of only their needs are most important.

If you wanted the extra year for your child to play - why did he/she go into K reading?

And I know you don't care about my child - but just remember that those of us who followed the guidelines of cutoff dates will not necessarily care about your child when we encourage the teacher to teach 4 and 5 year old academics...and I find it difficult to believe an already-reading child won't be bored with learning ABC's and doing C-A-T spells cat. So as long as you are OK with only challenging your child at home, I guess we'll get along fine. My child's K teacher will have a VERY difficult time with me if he/she attempts to teach 1st grade material in the classroom for those kids who really should be in 1st but whose parents have OPTED to put them into a younger learning environment.

 

[dogluva]

I suppose you never read to your child? We are big readers here, and I know my child was not the only one in her kindy class who went in reading.
Also, her class spent a few weeks reviewing letters, but then jumped into full sight words, adding, subtracting, her kindergarten expects a lot out of their kids.
Her school has reading clubs, and all the kids fit into a club, some are working on letter sounds, my daughters club is working on words. If she finishes her work first while others are working, the are allowed to go to a center to keep busy.
Most teachers teach middle of the road, not for the youngest, not for the oldest, and a GOOD teacher will challenge all her students no matter where they stand. I am sorry your district seems to no do this.
We spoke many times with teachers in our district before we held our oldest a year, ALL of them prefer the parents to hold their kids so they are not the 4 starting kindergarten.
I did not hold my kids to give her and edge, to be the tallest, smartest, child in the class. I held her so that she would live up to her every potential, and how dare you tell me that the teacher should treat, and teach her any different than your child.
I hope your child never needs anything extra from a teacher, no wonder kids grow up with such a feeling of only their needs are most important.

Well obviously from your post YOU DON'T CARE about my child. It seems to me you are the one whose kids will grow up with feeling that only their needs are most important. Didn't you just say that exact thing???? I am confused.

 

[hmacmahony]

I find it unbelieveable that keeping my child home an extra year is such a big deal. I truely believe kids are pushed way to much anymore, and I am very happy with giving all my kids an extra year to play and be a kid.
My daughters teacher was thrilled we held her, and has many times said she very much prefers kids to be at least 5 when they start school. They work at a very very fast pace, and are expected to acomplish and awful lot. This is not because of the age of the class, but because that is what the class calls for. We even talked to the principal, who absolutely suggested holding our daughter a year, kindergarten is not what is once was.
We have a wonderful school district, who expects a lot of the kids, and we 100% did the right thing.
And just for the record, we have never asked the teacher to do anything different with my daughter, thankfully she is a great teacher, who works with all levels. There are reading clubs, my daughter is in a club that does small books, there are also clubs that do sounds, and letters. She has a math club, she is working on numbers, while others are doing simple math facts. A GOOD teacher can challenge all children, not just the older ones.

Yes, this is the mother that will demand that her child be challenged when the reality of it is that she wanted him home to play for one more year.

But it is ok for my kids who developmentally ready to do the C-A-T thing have to take a back seat to all the older kids who stayed home for a year to be a kid.


So who is going to be the youngest?? Someone has to be that is a fact.