OT- Daycare

[sam_gordon]

First, please no "putting kids in daycare is bad". I obviously disagree.

We need to change daycares for DS(6y11m) and DD(4). The back story is very long.

DW went to look at two daycares ('A' & 'B'). Our kids had attended 'A' years ago before DS(then 2) was kicked out for biting.

A:
Pro:
larger facility
more outdoor area (and more age-specific)
Con:
LOTS of kids. I'm sure they're under the child/adult ratio, but they have LOTS more kids.
POSSIBLE chance (call me paranoid) of them "prejudging" DS based on past history.

B:
Pro:
Smaller class size
Shares building with gymnastics gym and OCCASIONALLY (no set time) kids will get 'free gym' time
(According to DS... they have a foosball table)
Con:
Has a history of closing based on weather (even when schools are in session)... exactly when working parents need daycare the most.

Cost is identical between the two.

thoughts?

 

[mzozzietj]

Since your children are a bit older, do they have any preference of the two? Is there anyplace else that is perhaps a happy medium?

In regards to the previous place, I would call and ask questions about the child/teacher ratio. And since he is older DS wouldn't have the same class so I'm sure that the past is the past.

We went through the childcare search process this year and it's very stressful. I honestly think narrowing down a list of all the places that meet your personal criteria then touring all those places and going with your gutt is the best way to go.

Good luck!

 

[AJRitz]

Assuming that you don't have any lingering issues with Daycare A over DS being kicked out five years ago, that sounds like the more reliable choice. As a former daycare provider, I wouldn't hold 2-year-old behavior against a 7-year-old (though if I had first-hand knowledge of it, I might be tempted to gently tease him about it). Heck, I had a 2-year-old bite me on the back when I was working in daycare - the kid turned out to be a terrific teenager, and quite good at working with kids himself by the time he was in high school.

 

[MSSANDRA]

The child/ teacher ratio is a HUGE deal. All other things being close, I would choose the one with less kids in the classes.

 

[disfan07]

As long as the child/teacher ratio at "A" are legal (I assume they are to be licensed) and you are comfortable with it, I would go with "A"

Bigger does not always mean worse. Our preschool/daycare (6wks-5 years) could have about 220 kids at any one time (if all the kids were there). We had 2 infant rooms, 2 toddler rooms, 3 2s rooms, 5 3s rooms, and 4 4s rooms. We also had afterschool care for K-6 ( I didnt work in elem. after care but I think they had 100 kids enrolled). Our ratios were always better than what was legally required.

 

[melancholywings]

For both - I'd recommend going in later in the day (when the kids are tired) and observe how the class is. We're in a professional center that has a higher ratio - DD has been there for years and we've found it's not the size of the class that matters but how the teacher handles the kids when they're tired and worn out, and the kids themselves. We had one teacher that at the end of the day the class room was in complete chaos, and the kids were bullies. Those kids left and the new teacher has her class very well behaved.
On the flip side we've been to small day care's with smaller ratios and there were social dynamic issues between the kids that the care giver supported.

 

[MSSANDRA]

Just to clarify it's not the size of the school that I thinks makes a big difference but the child/staff ratio. The school may have 300 kids but a smaller ratio and be a wonderful choice. Better to have 10 kids with a teacher than 15, all other things the same.

 

[sam_gordon]

Yea, I'm actually letting DW decide. She's been to both daycares (along with two others that didn't pass the visit test). I remember 'A' from our earlier experience with them, although they've expanded.

I was just trying to see what others thought. The two sticking points are the ratio at A and the closings at B.

 

[The Hendies]

I believe that in some states you can go on the Office of Children and Family Services (or whatever your licensing agency is) website and look at the citations from licensed day care providers. I would be hesitant about a day care that knowingly goes our of ratio. The county day care association might have some additional facilities on their list.

 

[Nanu57v]

I'm surprised, the B seems like a no-brainer to me. Smaller class size is a definite plus! Plus the gym time seems awesome! The biting will most likely be in his file, although I imagine 2 years later it "shouldn't" make a difference. Still, I'd go with be.

 

[sweetdana]

If you have a mom/inlaw that could assist with closings, or a work at home option, or a sister who would pick them up; I for sure would go with B.

If you are kin-da on your own and no options/ work at home or what ever seems like you have to pick A.

 

[tlbwriter]

I probably wouldn't go with B unless you have a back-up plan. How often is weather an issue?

 

[sam_gordon]

I'm surprised, the B seems like a no-brainer to me. Smaller class size is a definite plus! Plus the gym time seems awesome!

Agreed. The problem is if 'B' closes.

Re: other help
Aside from DD(12), none really. If all schools are closed, there's no problem leaving all three kids home together (they know no friends can come over and they're not to go to anothers house).

Re: frequency of weather events
Depends on the year. Last year schools ended up closing 10-13 days(?). I didn't track how often Daycare B closed and the schools were open. Since DD(4) is in preschool now, it's not quite as easy to deal with (could drop her off at DW's work last year if need be).

 

[MyDizneyBoyz]

Personally, I would have an issue with A due to the fact that they kicked your DS out close to 5 years ago for what is age-appropriate behavior. Biting is obviously NOT acceptable, but a reputable center will be able to manage it in an age-appropriate fashion. The fact that they resorted to making a problem go away as opposed to handling it makes me wonder how they would handle other issues in the various age groups.

My oldest is 6 and all my kids have been in the same daycare since they were each respectively 6mos. old. I've been on both sides of the biting issue at that age - my oldest was bit a few times and after this initially furious mama calmed down, I realized that it was being managed and controlled. I got to experience the other side of the coin when my DS#2 became a biter and learned firsthand how it was managed (shadowing by a teacher, redirection, being put with older kids temporarily, etc.). It's no fun but the pros should be able to handle things like this.

All that aside, I think every child thrives best in a certain environment. I have one DS that LOVES chaos, being busy, lots of activity. I have another that shuts down and gets easily overwhelmed. Which place seems to fit the personality of your kids? Which one "feels" better? Which one has staff that is friendly and approachable? Which one has teachers with excellent classroom management skills and lower staff turnover?

 

[squirrel]

Daycare A that kicked out your son for bitting - do you know who decided that? The staff in that room or the director of the centre? I ask because staff has probably changed. The director is probably the same.

I only know of one child that was kicked out of a non-profit daycare I worked at. It was totally not the child's fault. The centre had a huge change over in staff including a new director. The new head supervisor in the 3-5 room decided that just about anything goes-there were barely any rules. The child that was kicked out needed rules. He was a mess after the staff change. He really needed consistancy and he wasn't getting it. I finally left as I couldn't handle watching what was happening. I was worried that a child would be seriously injured. It was bad, a lot of parents pulled their children. The others either weren't paying much attention to what was happening or didn't want to switch daycares.

It's a lot of work to find the right one.

 

[WantToGoNow]

Personally, I would probably go with A. A daycare being closed often when you need it is a big deciding factor. If your children were young, I would say the class size would be a deciding factor but your children are older. I'm assuming your oldest only needs before/after school care and the ratio for school age kids is high - my dd6 goes to 1st grade this year - there are 28 students and 1 teacher. As for a 4 year old, I think the ratio here is 15-1 or something like that. I would think a child being a biter 5 years would not be an issue at all.

 

[luvsJack]

Ratios are going to be different state to state. Here a 4 year old class is 12-1 and afterschool age (with the youngest child in the group being 5) is 15-1. (not even close to public school ratios)

From my own observations, I prefer smaller centers. Thats just my opinon, but my reasons are simply that in a smaller center all of the staff/teachers pretty much know all of the kids (or at the very least all of the kid's names) and most of the parents. It makes a child's movement from class to class much easier and makes it easier if for some reason a teacher/staff member is moved into a child's class. If there is an issue that you need to address with the director; she will actually know who you are and who your child is. Makes a big difference.

If you are leaning toward B, I would ask them about their closing policy. They should have a written policy explaining how they choose to close for weather. If you know the policy ahead of time you may be able to work with it.

 

[disfan07]

I dont necessarily agree with the PP who thinks it was wrong for them to kick out a 2 year old for biting.

I think it all depends on the situation. If it was something that happened continuously than I would probably agree with the decision. Where I worked, we told the parents of two different children (one was 2 one was 3) that they could not bring their children back until the biting was under control. The reason for this was that the biting was not an occasional thing. It was something that was happening at least 3 days a week and sometimes mulitple times a day. Regardless of what we or the parents did (having a shadow for the chlid, time outs(when approved by the parents), spending time in the office, etc) these children continued to bite. It is our job to protect the children and when a child continuously bites other children, we have to do what we believe is in the best interest of everyone involved. Unfortunatley, that was to not allow the child back until the biting was under control.

In both situations, the parents got a nanny for the child and both kids were back within 6 months and the biting was basically resolved. What I'm saying is, that we had no problem with letting them back into the daycare. The parents understood and it was all basically water under the bridge from that day foward.

With the age of your son, I dont think that the fact that he was a biter 4 years ago would impact the care he would get at center "A" but that obviously depends on the center.

The big question is...are there lingering issues with daycare "A" about the biting issues? Do you feel comfortable with sending him there? Do you believe that it is water under the bridge? If you believe that there are no problems because of that, I would choose "A"

 

[squirrel]

Our ratios are much lower up here.

1:4 for children under 3, in group daycare
1:8 for children 3-5
1:10 for children 5-6, must be in Kindergarten
1:15 for children over 6

 

[esk]

I wouldn't worry about the biting thing, 4 years ago. Chances are the staff aren't the same, maybe the director, as a PP said.

Childcare providers have a very high turnover rate and may not even remember DS, if they were there 4 years ago.

I recommend you go, with your wife, late in the day. Go to each center and hangout for 10 minutes in the 7 year old and 4 year old rooms. (where your children would be)

Get a feel for it. You'll know.

If you and your DW are like my DH and I, she will agonize over 2 options, both being sort of equal but there will be something she can't put her finger on. But if you go together, you'll probably pick up on it, or maybe it will give her the "freedom" to say "yep, bad feeling about that place" with someone to agree with her. She probably also doesn't want to be responsible for picking one, then if something happens, she is the one who picked it.

DS/DD have been in 6 different day cares now (we're in the military) so I have a lot of experience. In most cases, that one center was my only option. Sometimes its not the center but the teacher/classroom and if there is more than one in in the age group, switching is a solution. In the end, we're talking like 3 hours a day, right? From 3-6 pm maybe? As long as my children are safe, supervised and not watching Tv/playing computer games, I'm happy.....