OT: Any non-Britax car seat that harnesses beyond 40lbs?

[all4fun]

I like this list of "recommended car seats"

http://www.carseatsite.com/recommended_car_seats.htm

Somone mentioned the Nania Airway however that car seat isn't available any longer because it is no long manufactured. If you do find one online, it might be near it's expiration date so I'd hesitate to buy one, personally.

The important thing to figure out is not just weight but also torso height because car seats are outgrown by height once the tops of the shoulders go past the top harness slots. You can do this by measuring your child from bum to top of shoulder. I recommend sitting them on the floor next to a wall and then marking where the top of their shoulder is w/a pencil, and measuring the wall from floor to the mark.

The Britax Regent has 21" top harness slots (the tallest of all seats) and an 80lbs limit.

The Britax MA/DC/BV seats have about 17" top slots 65#limit, as well as the FP-Safe Voyage Deluxe (55lb limit).

The Sunshine Kids Radian (65 or 80# limit depending on date of mfg) (www.skjp.com) has 18" top slots.

The Cosco Apex 65 has 17" top slots, 65lb limit.

I believe the Safeguard "GO" seat also has 17" top slots but it can vary depending on if you use the seatbelt or LATCH to install it. Since the back is not hard, using the seatbelt can make the back less tall.

Check out this site for car seat and vehicle compatibility info as well
http://www.carseatdata.org/

and www.carseat.org has a review forum that I have personaly found very helpful.

Hth!!

And to add to the post about the little boy who died ... unfortunately it was his seatbelt that failed. I believe the point the mother was trying to make w/her video was that he might still be alive if he'd been in a harnessed seat because even if he had still fallen out of the car in a 5-pt harnessed car seat, he would have been more protected by the seat shell. There is also the possibility that a top tethered car seat would have kept the boy from falling completely out of the vehicle. Good point if he had been ten then he wouldn't have been in a car seat at all however at that particular moment in time he was still young and small enough to be in an appropriately sized car seat and might have been better protected in that particular accident. If we all only had a crystal ball so we would know if we would ever need a car seat or not. but we don't so better safe than sorry IMO.

 

[andijean]

All4fun thanks for your wealth of info. I have been looking at new seats for our second car b/c we are not happy with the boosters we have for our 4 & 6 yr old. At this point in time were not able to go and get the Britax Regent. We have Britax Parkways in our van. When I saw these other seats that I could harness up to 65lbs I was very excited. But your info on height I think will knock out those options. 17" is not very long for 4 & 6 yr olds. My 4yr old outgrew his Marathon at 3.5 and you show the same length as the Apex 65. I think I will try the Apex 65 out at the store, but it looks like I may end up with 2 more Parkways. All the info everyone has been providing is very helpful. Thanks a bunch!

 

[hematite153]

I am still working on having kids so I don't have first-hand experience.

However, booster seats are required by law until 80 lbs in Ontario so there must be more options out there than it sounds like you have found. Perhaps you need to look in Canada in order to get seats that will work for a longer period of time? (Ignore me if this doesn't help.)

 

[KristiKelly]

Oh, no, not this again. It was the seatbelt that was defective, not the booster seat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please.

I try to teach my kids, if you can't say something nice - SAY NOTHING!!!!!

I was just trying to be helpful, I didn't know I was going to offend you or stir up anything. I'm so, so, so sorry!!!

Please.

 

[jodifla]

I try to teach my kids, if you can't say something nice - SAY NOTHING!!!!!

I was just trying to be helpful, I didn't know I was going to offend you or stir up anything. I'm so, so, so sorry!!!

Please.

IMO, the video is manipulative and draws dangerously wrong conclusions.

The booster seat was perfectly safe, as was proven by the other child getting through the accident just fine in the same darn seat.

The seatbelt is the issue and should be addressed, because what if you spouse, older child or parent were seating back there! They'd go flying and be injured or killed.

So make sure the seatbelts are working properly. That's the key....not $300 booster seats.

 

[pennypooh]

DS outgrew his convertible in height about 6 months ago. I ended up buying the Regent because after EXTENSIVE research I found there just weren't any other seats available that would keep him in the 5 point (or even a 3 point) for more than about another 1/2-3/4 inch in height and he was under the 40 lb limit for the boosters by 4-5 lbs! I really tried to find another option. No way that was going to even out and despite the cost I really really felt it was necessary for his safety. Maybe we'd never need it but I know I couldn't live with myself if I went for the less safe option and something happened. I don't mean to give a guilt trip but that's how I felt. Disney, wonderful though it is and as ridiculous as it is to have to pay that price for the Regent (about $80) (you would think some of the other companies would realize the need in this area and want to get some of their business!)---Disney will be there in 2008! It's definitely not going anywhere!

By the way, I LOVE the Regent! I have no problems with the straps twisting. Very comfy too. My only complaint (other than the amount of the back seat it takes up) is that the fabric car seat is line dry only. I'm not so sure it doesn't also say handwash, but I know I didn't do that. I think I used the delicate cycle and cold water. Ridiculous and I have told the company so and requested they please consider easier care for the next covers they come out with. I wish anyone else who agrees would call Britax and request it too.

 

[NotUrsula]

ANY item of upholstery that contains foam or fiberfill padding is going to be line-dry only. That is because the padding is heat-sensitive and will melt in the heat of a dryer; and if that happens it will no longer fit on the frame. (The only alternative padding fabrics that are NOT heat-sensitive are sensitive to getting wet -- they lose their shape if washed at all.)

Machine-washable is a reasonable request, but there is no big hardship in letting the item air-dry after you wash it. Just wash it in the evening and let it dry overnight in a well-ventilated room.

 

[JustMM]

I came across this thread in a search and decided to chime in.

Yes, Kyle David Miller was tragically killed because his seatbelt came unlatched. But it didn't unlatch because it failed. It unlatched because something -- either the seat rolling over, Kyle's fiddling, or both -- hit it. The vehicle was a '98 Toyota Sienna, which had the kind of seatbelts on which the button on the latch sticks out, so it's particularly vulnerable to those things. Consider that when you think about the video.

So, ultimately, the things to be concerned about are:

1. The seat staying put.
2. The child fiddling and wiggling.

As for number 1, any good booster seat when properly installed is in the clear. Obviously we're talking about some very good boosters here, so we're good no matter which one we pick.

As for number 2, yes a 5-point harness will work, but I'm not sure it's the best answer. Sure, you can strap the heck out of your child so that when they do fiddle and wiggle, they won't be able to get out. But if they're comfortable, they wouldn't be fiddling and wiggling in the first place. Isn't that better? Every case I've seen has indicated that for the child, the Recaro Young Sport is just a better place to be -- it's more comfortable, there's less belt chafing, there's a LOT more support/cradling, etc. It's a seat that kids want to sit back and straight up in. They feel great surrounded and supported like that. It's fun. The Regent, on the other hand, is just a big fat thing that they have to be strapped into until the end of the trip.

Plus, the Regent doesn't even claim to have side-impact protection. Just looking at it vs. the Young Sport, you can tell why. Recaro, on the other hand, has the best side-impact protection you can get. I wouldn't trade side bolsters for straps any day -- especially considering that in a 5-point harness, two of those straps run right next to the neck. Moreover, because the Young Sport's side wings are so deep, the seatbelt does a fine job of keeping the child in the seat with none of the possible chafing and fitment problems that a 5-point harness can have on older kids.

In my opinion, of the two (the Regent and the Young Sport), it's gotta be the Young Sport.

Just my $0.02....



(Edited for grammar)

 

[andijean]

I have never heard about the Recaro. I looked up the company on the web and it seems very interesting. What age is your child and their size in the Recaro? Do you like the booster or toddler carseat? Where did you get yours from? What price range are they in? Thanks for the info.

 

[ceiligh1]

I have a Young sport we got it online at target . THey do not sell it in the stores. In our area the BMW dealers and such sell them also. I think it ran about 240 and at the time they had free shipping on it. It actually fits in our car better than the britax did. My son is 27 lbs at 16 mo so I dont know how tall or big the child can get and still use the 5 point harness and we have yet to have to adjust the seat for height. I really think it is a great seat and wish that we had bought it instead of the britax for the other car.

 

[all4fun]

Really not wanting to debate but wanted to clarify something...According to Kyle's mother, who posted on the Babycenter car safety tips board a while back, said that the accident and car were studied and the experts came back and said that the seatbelt indeed did fail. The mother herself buckled her son in before they left the gas station and the accident happened mere moments later. Remember, the sister was sitting in the same booster in the other seat using the same type of seatbelt and was just fine.

There is a name for the type of seatbelts that have been known to fail...they are called "Generation 3" or "Gen-3" and if you do an internet search on that phrase + seatbelt failure you will find lots of info about it.

The Recaro YS is a terrific car seat, however it only harnesses to 40lbs and I believe it also has 17" top slots (not sure about that one though - their site says the height limit is 40" which of course is an average) so most kids will outgrow the harness by height at the same time they would in a Marathon or some of the other higher weight limit seats. So for the OP anyway, they YS might not be the best choice if she wanted to go with a dedicated booster (which wasn't the point of her post, but anyway...) There are other dedicated boosters on the market that have extra side impact protection like the YS does and cost less. The Britax Parkway would be one example.

Also, car seat experts agree that a 5-pt harness is safer than a 3-pt. Everyone would be safer in one actually, but it just isn't practicle for everyday use for obvious reasons. I understand that Volvo is working on a 4-pt harness for their cars which I find interesting.

 

[JustMM]

I have never heard about the Recaro. I looked up the company on the web and it seems very interesting.

If you think they're interesting now, wait until you talk to someone who is a car enthusiast or racing fan.

What age is your child and their size in the Recaro?

I don't have children (yet!). I am speaking from my research through industry contacts in the service of the many friends and family who have gone through the process, and have seen a pretty full range of kids in Young Sports.

It is absolutely the best forward-facing seat I've ever seen for small children, bar none -- especially compared to the huge, flat Regent. I even like it better than any convertible seat because it sits lower, which is better for stability and positioning relative to the car's crash structures.

For older children, only the largest, oldest ones with the broadest shoulders (and the super-claustrophobic ones) may find it a close fit. Here you may be able to make an argument for a larger seat, but any seat on the market besides a Recaro Start will give up side impact safety and sleeping support so IMHO it's not worth it unless the child is REALLY uncomfortable and you REALLY can't budget $350 for a Start, which has adjustable side bolsters.

Do you like the booster or toddler carseat? Where did you get yours from? What price range are they in?

There are three seats: The Young Style booster for $130, the Young Sport toddler seat for $250, or the Start booster for $350.

The Young Style is a small step up from a Britax Parkway (better construction and side impact protection). I personally am not so hot on it, although it's got a TON of bang-for-the-buck.

The Young Sport is probably my favorite: $250 for the best safety on the market (with or without the harness), and it'll take your child from right when they're done with their infant carrier until he or she doesn't need a seat any more. Plus, it has LATCH connectors and a top tether. There is absolutely nothing I would rather have up to this price point.

The Start is the king of the hill. It's at least as safe as the Young Sport, and it has lots more goodies: an aluminum frame (!!), width-adjustable side bolsters and seat bottom, and speakers in the headrests that can be plugged into anything with a headphone jack. Its only downsides are the price and the fact that it can't take kids under 30 pounds (which is why it doesn't have LATCH -- it does have a top tether though).

Check your private messages for a link to the people who have helped me and my friends. I'm not allowed to post links yet...

 

[tanyaandallie]

Sure, you can strap the heck out of your child so that when they do fiddle and wiggle, they won't be able to get out. But if they're comfortable, they wouldn't be fiddling and wiggling in the first place.


IMO children do not fiddle and wiggle in their seats b/c they are uncomfortable. They wiggle and fiddle b/c they are children. That's what kids do. They have short attention spans and don't want to sit still for long. A 30 lb child (likely around 3 years old) is just not old enough to sit in a seat only harnessed by a seat belt and simply has nothing to do with comfort. They would be all over the place in a booster and it would be stressful for both mom and kids. It's not a risk I would be willing to take with my kids.

The recaro looks like an intersting seat, however you can still only use the 5 pt harness up to 40 lbs. There is absolutely no way you can convince me that a 5 pt harness is not the best answer for a child, esp. under the age of 4. It is the safest solution.

 

[all4fun]

Sure, you can strap the heck out of your child so that when they do fiddle and wiggle, they won't be able to get out. But if they're comfortable, they wouldn't be fiddling and wiggling in the first place.


IMO children do not fiddle and wiggle in their seats b/c they are uncomfortable. They wiggle and fiddle b/c they are children. That's what kids do. They have short attention spans and don't want to sit still for long. A 30 lb child (likely around 3 years old) is just not old enough to sit in a seat only harnessed by a seat belt and simply has nothing to do with comfort. They would be all over the place in a booster and it would be stressful for both mom and kids. It's not a risk I would be willing to take with my kids.

The recaro looks like an intersting seat, however you can still only use the 5 pt harness up to 40 lbs. There is absolutely no way you can convince me that a 5 pt harness is not the best answer for a child, esp. under the age of 4. It is the safest solution.

I couldn't agree more with this.

The Young Sport is probably my favorite: $250 for the best safety on the market (with or without the harness), and it'll take your child from right when they're done with their infant carrier until he or she doesn't need a seat any more. Plus, it has LATCH connectors and a top tether. There is absolutely nothing I would rather have up to this price point.

Actually the YS might not be the best choice for right after the infant seat is outgrown because it is a forward-facing only seat. Many children outgrow their infant seats before they are one year old and 20lbs - the bare minimum age recommendation for going from rear-facing to fwd-facing. TheAAP also recommends keeping kids r/fing as long as possible - until they outgrow their convertible car seats r/fing limits. This is usually between 30-35lbs depending on the car seat mfg. Research bears out that rear-facing is actually the safest way to ride, and convertible car seats are the best way to accomodate this. Not disputing that the YS is a great seat because it is well engineered, however it's not necessarily the answer for everything after the infant seat.

All newer car seats have LATCH connectors since the govt mandated cars have LATCH since mfg 2000 or '01 (can't remember which exactly but it is far enough back now that most car seats that don't have LATCH built in should be expiring soon.)

 

[molly2004]

Hi, again everyone! I'm the OP and thank you so much for your input. I am definitely struggling with this whole decision process. Because now, not only do I have to spill beaucoup bucks on the car seats (and I will as much as is necessary to keep the monkeys safe...still $$$$ ) , we have to buy a new car as well (our 2003 Passat died ). That's another story.

My boys are 39.5" tall/35+ lbs, and their shoulders are about 1" from the top slot on their Evenflo Triumph. Looking at many of the car seats discussed (the Marathon etc), it seems that the kiddos will be outgrowing the height limit at about the same time or before they reach the weight limit. Also, my guys are under 3 so the fidget factor is huge. It does seem that the Regent is the only one to fit the bill though I'm not crazy about the fact that there's neither support for a sleeping child nor side impact protection. And I also hear that the straps are very twist-prone.

I was looking at some high back boosters while I was looking at the other seats at the store. I'm curious to know, since I've never actually used one before, how tightly the belt positioning slots up top hold the belt in. I looked at the Graco Cargo and it seemed like it would be pretty tight. Does the belt slide through easily? I'm just thinking that if there's any resistance at all, my guys may not try to move around. If there's little or none, it wouldn't be worth it. Can anyone explain? I'm assuming there's very little resistence, hence the recommendation for kids age 4+, right? Just need to be sure I didn't leave any stone unturned.



THank you so much!

 

[all4fun]

Ideally a bpb would have open belt paths so it wouldn't hold the shoulder belt at all. If you have ALR seatbelts (Automatic Locking Retractor: Allows belt to be pulled in one motion until fastened, then operates as a ratchet, winding in slack, preventing further extension (until completely rewound). In most belts, you will hear a faint clicking sound that indicates the belt is locked and ratcheting in.) then it is safe to lock them each time you buckle in your child and that can help... but only if you child isn't a real wiggle-worm.

Keep in mind a lot of kids torso growth slows down around age three. This has been the case for my ds anyway. I'd say he's grown 3-4" over the last year but his torso has only grown about an inch, if that. His seat (Britax Blvd) has 17" top slots and I'd say he's got a little over an inch before he outgrows it by height. But he's a pretty long torso'd kid and tall to boot (90th % for height). The Triumph has 15" top slots so if your dc have an inch left then that would put them at 14" torso length, correct? You could have more time left in any of the higher weight limit seats than you think. Of course all kids grow differently but on average the cpst's I've corresponded with say that the Britax Marathon & clones tend to last kids until they're age 5-6 typically. This would be true for the SK-Radian with it's 18" top slots and the Fisher Price SVD as well (which is a Marathon clone basically).

Also, just fyi, but the Triumph has a pretty low back (unless you have the DLX version, which I think is taller). Car seats are ougrown fwd-facing by height once the tips of the childs ears are past the top of shell or once the tops of the shoulders go past the top harness slots - whichever comes first.

Best of luck with your decision. I hope this helped.

 

[pennypooh]

Hi, again everyone! I'm the OP and thank you so much for your input. I am definitely struggling with this whole decision process. Because now, not only do I have to spill beaucoup bucks on the car seats (and I will as much as is necessary to keep the monkeys safe...still $$$$ ) , we have to buy a new car as well (our 2003 Passat died ). That's another story.

My boys are 39.5" tall/35+ lbs, and their shoulders are about 1" from the top slot on their Evenflo Triumph. Looking at many of the car seats discussed (the Marathon etc), it seems that the kiddos will be outgrowing the height limit at about the same time or before they reach the weight limit. Also, my guys are under 3 so the fidget factor is huge. It does seem that the Regent is the only one to fit the bill though I'm not crazy about the fact that there's neither support for a sleeping child nor side impact protection. And I also hear that the straps are very twist-prone.

I was looking at some high back boosters while I was looking at the other seats at the store. I'm curious to know, since I've never actually used one before, how tightly the belt positioning slots up top hold the belt in. I looked at the Graco Cargo and it seemed like it would be pretty tight. Does the belt slide through easily? I'm just thinking that if there's any resistance at all, my guys may not try to move around. If there's little or none, it wouldn't be worth it. Can anyone explain? I'm assuming there's very little resistence, hence the recommendation for kids age 4+, right? Just need to be sure I didn't leave any stone unturned.



THank you so much!

Try these websites. The first has a bunch of car seat inspectors on it that are extremely helpful and knowledgable. They can tell you what your options are and help you with the decision. The second is a database where you can search for seats that fit your car (or the one you plan to buy) well. Remember not all seats fit all cars equally well so you'll need to look at that when choosing the replacement car as well. Hope these help. I know what a headache this can be.

http://www.car-seat.org/index.php
http://www.carseatdata.org/compatibility_search.php?tun=dd

 

[american_mommy]

Actually it is shown that 5 pt harnesses are safer, that's why they are in race cars. My massage therapist told me how she sees so many injuries on one side of the body because of the way seat belts sit on your body and in an accident it only holds that part down. My sister has some nasty injuries due to a seat belt and car accident.
I have heard good things about the Recaro, never got to see one in person though.
My dd loves her Regent, though she is still getting used to the buckle and doesn't like the one click thing, but she says it is so comfy.
We've never had a problem with wiggling or anything. I think that just depends on the kids, but even the best seats aren't safe if used improperly.
Oh and if I am thinking of the same video as you mentioned, I didn't htink that the whole story was there either. Yes seatbelts fail, but 3 yr olds should never be in a booster.