OT: Am I the only one who makes my kids sit in the back seat of the car??

[lucifie]

You are absolutely right but we could come up with a hundred scenarios just like that. Including people who have probably died because they WERE wearing their seatbelt. I simply can't live my life trying to keep every unlikely situation from happening. I just try to be smart while not letting the fear of the unlikely rule my life.

I agree with you that you can't live in fear of unlikely scenarios, but automobile accidents are the leading cause of childhood death and the proper use of a car seat is a simple way to prevent them. What you do with your child doesn't affect me, so by all means do what you're comfortable with and I'll do what I'm comfortable with.

 

[Tiger926]

Are those 'rules' or 'recommendations'? Because there is a big difference.

And fwiw it's not about having ESP..it's about assessing risk. Almost everything that you do involves an element of risk. Everything. Obviously you are not comfortable with certain risks that others are. Fair enough. We all get to make our own decisions.



Just out of curiosity: I know a lot of grown adults who are shorter and lighter than 11/12/13 yo children. Doesn't this make some of those who are so hung up on 'age' stop and pause. Would you make your adult friends sit in the back seat if they were petite? Maybe Little People shouldn't be allowed to drive or sit in the passenger seat. Some things boil down to using alittle common sense. But hey, do whatever makes you feel better with your own kids.....just please don't overstate the risks in order to make yourself look 'right' and others 'wrong'.

Sorry, yes they are recommendations.

I am not sure if you are actually reading all posts? It is not about the age of the children as in all 13 years and under must sit in back seat because of age. It's about physical development and the ability to handle an injury from an air bag or car crash.

So, recommendations have been moved up to 13, as younger children who are not physically developed are sitting in the front seat. Car safety recommendations are made by professionals: engineers, doctors, car seat techs, medical professionals, etc. and they determine with years of tests and real world data, what young bodies can handle in terms of accidents, and that is where the recommendations, rules and bylaws come from.

And by the way, we have very petite adults in our family who have to sit on pillows in order to properly place them within the seat belts. These adults do sit in the front, as the air bag sensor does not go off as they are heavy enough and physically developed enough to handle an air bag situation.

You seem to be a very absolute person, and many of us are not. We do assess risk each and everyday...that is what responsible adults do. Some situations, where head injuries are a common occurrence (cars, bikes and skateboards), require extra safety precautions, and that is the way it is.

If you have determined that your children are safe within the safety confines that you have them not under, then that is your responsibility as their parent. Hopefully you don't have to deal with a tragedy, which by the way, is not overstated or about making us look right (how ridiculous!).

Talk to paramedics or officers (of which I have many times), and they will tell you what the aftermath of a car accident looks like with children involved, and then they will tell you what that same accident looks like when the proper child safety rules weren't followed.

Only you can determine what you are comfortable with as a parent. If you as a parent can't see the potential risks involved, then there is absolutely nothing any of us are going to say to change your mind. Your statements about not having a law saying you can't undo a seat belt for 3 seconds to pick something up are absolutely bizarre. It only takes 1-2 seconds in some situations for an accident to happen, but again, you seem to have some magical powers that preclude you or your children from being injured in those situations. Why do you need a law in that respect? This is a perfect example of why I don't believe in common sense...

Tiger

 

[chimpwars]

I am trying to restore some common sense, people have taken "safety" to ridiculous levels. America in 2012 is so safe that people have to invent things to be afraid of, things that have such a small risk of actually happening. We live in the safest time period ever in history so now we create fear of ridiculous things like drop side cribs, unbuckling our seatbelts for a second, letting a 5 year old play in the front yard alone. I don't have my kids wear bike helmets, they're totally silly for little kids on subdivision sidewalks! If my kids were teens or adults and were serious cyclists on busy roads and at high speeds then yes wearing a helmet would be appropriate. A 6 year old biking on a sidewalk in a quiet subdivision, ridiculous! I did say (on another thread) that I will encourage my son to join the military and you are saying that that is lacking common sense and not caring for my children's safety?? WOW!!

Oh please have your children wear helmets ALL the time, my 7yo was riding her bike in our cul de sac and hit the sidewalk so bad that her helmet cracked!! we almost called the ambulance but I took her to the ER. She had a severe concussion and they were worried she had a brain bleed. She had memory problems for over 8 weeks, no tv no activity for over 6 weeks as she had severe headaches and this was on our cul de sac!!! we were told if no helmet she would be dead and I believe it. I saw her crash to the ground seemed like no big deal but then there was no movement so we went running (DH and I were both outside watching the kids) and she obviously had a broken wrist but the helmet was broken and she was coming out of unconsciousness, it was so weird and frightening, she just began screaming her head hurt, and then silence between just screaming and then came the vomiting all from head trauma on a flat cul de sac
so yes helmets ALWAYS
they are not silly in a subdivision at all

 

[reelmom]

That's very noble of you. We feel perfectly safe in our convertible when we have no choice but to take it with a child (not baby/toddler/preschooler) on board. I'll also take my chances that an impact at 3 miles an hour in a parking lot will not cause significant bodily harm. Or that the 5 seconds my kids or I are unbucked will not result in death and dismemberment. Are you trying to tell me that you pull over so that Junior can lean over and get something that he can't reach. I call BS

Not judging but speaking from experience of a friend who had to bury her 10 year old for unbuckling his seatbelt for a few seconds...it can happen. Why risk it?

 

[powellrj]

And yes, I see encouraging children to join the military, rather than encouraging them to follow their dreams, as not caring for their safety, much less supporting their ability to dream for themselves. I'd never encourage, or support, my child joining the military, but clearly we have different value systems. I'd like to see the military dramatically reduced, and dreaming of my child joining the military is anathema to my values.

Cool, nothing like insulting a large portion of Disers to make your point. FWIW, joining the military was his dream, and everyday I thank him for his service.

 

[Missy13d69]

Cool, nothing like insulting a large portion of Disers to make your point. FWIW, joining the military was his dream, and everyday I thank him for his service.

The military can be an amazing career. I was raised in a military family though, so I know the truth of it that outsiders don't see. Thank your son for me too.

 

[nchulka]

Oh please have your children wear helmets ALL the time, my 7yo was riding her bike in our cul de sac and hit the sidewalk so bad that her helmet cracked!! we almost called the ambulance but I took her to the ER. She had a severe concussion and they were worried she had a brain bleed. She had memory problems for over 8 weeks, no tv no activity for over 6 weeks as she had severe headaches and this was on our cul de sac!!! we were told if no helmet she would be dead and I believe it. I saw her crash to the ground seemed like no big deal but then there was no movement so we went running (DH and I were both outside watching the kids) and she obviously had a broken wrist but the helmet was broken and she was coming out of unconsciousness, it was so weird and frightening, she just began screaming her head hurt, and then silence between just screaming and then came the vomiting all from head trauma on a flat cul de sac
so yes helmets ALWAYS
they are not silly in a subdivision at all

I understand what you are saying and I'm very glad your DD is okay. To me the thing is a fall like that could happen from anywhere, not just a bike. There was another lady on the dis who's daughter fell off at a playground and had severe head trauma. Does that mean we should start making kids wear helmets when they go up a slide? My fear is that this irrational idea that we can prevent any tragedy will eventually lead to a society of bubble-wrap kids. They actually do sell helmets for babies/toddlers learning to crawl/walk so they don't hurt their heads Currently these are somewhat of a joke to most mothers, and only the "crazy, obsessive, hyper-helicopter" parents buy them, but I can see that 20 years down the line parents who don't have their 1 year old in a helmet will be seen as bad, lazy, uncaring, neligent parents. After all why wouldn't we want to protect our children from any possible harm.

As far as the recommendation that kids don't sit in the front seat until age 14, that actually seems pretty dangerous to me. Kids can get their driver's permit when they turn 15. So we are going to have kids driving who have only been in the front seat for a year

 

[awoogala]

nope. I am a stickler for car safety. My kids rode backward until they were 2, stayed in husky carseats until 5, and in boosters until 8 (which is the law in new jersey,anyway)
my kids are not allowed in the front seat until they are above 100 lbs, and at minimum, 5 feet tall. Just not worth the risk to me, to save any egos.

 

[awoogala]

You can call BS all you want, but we NEVER allow our children to unbuckle to retrieve something. They either live without it, or if it's absolutely necessary, we pull over to get it. Never assume that your way is the way everyone does things. You may think it's perfectly safe to do that, but there are plenty of people who do not.

no kidding. My kids unbuckle in the car for anything, automatic grounding. No messing around. You drop it, too bad, you won't die without it. Deal with it.

 

[nchulka]

nope. I am a stickler for car safety. My kids rode backward until they were 2, stayed in husky carseats until 5, and in boosters until 8 (which is the law in new jersey,anyway)
my kids are not allowed in the front seat until they are above 100 lbs, and at minimum, 5 feet tall. Just not worth the risk to me, to save any egos.

According to this I would not have been able to be in the front seat until I was 19! I just couldn't seem to make it to 100 lbs, wish I still had that problem My mom would still not be in the front, she never hit 5 foot!

 

[awoogala]

my mil is also under the weight and height. She is an adult. An adult is fully grown, growth plates formed. She is also taking the risk personally, and drives without an airbag activated, since it very likely could kill her.
different cars have different seatbelt arrangements and can fit better than others. She does use a cushion so she is at the proper height for her seatbelt.

 

[nchulka]

no kidding. My kids unbuckle in the car for anything, automatic grounding. No messing around. You drop it, too bad, you won't die without it. Deal with it.

I am truly shocked by how many people on this thread are saying this! Thankfully I've never run across anyone so militant about seatbelt use in real life! Do none of your kids ever fall asleep in the car either?? How about on roadtrips Just tonight we were driving home from Six Flags, it was hot and my mom had her coat on. She was getting too hot in the car with the heat on and she joked as she unbuckled to remove her coat "okay, don't wreck now, I'm taking my coat off". I can't believe what a big deal is made over nothing! We used to have a van when I was a kid and the middle seat folded down to make a bed. My mom would make it up into a bed for my brothers to share on roadtrips while I slept across the rear bench. Sure anything COULD have happened but if I lived my life always thinking about any scenario that COULD ever POSSIBLY happen that wouldn't be much of a life!

 

[maxiesmom]

We used to have a van when I was a kid and the middle seat folded down to make a bed. My mom would make it up into a bed for my brothers to share on roadtrips while I slept across the rear bench. Sure anything COULD have happened but if I lived my life always thinking about any scenario that COULD ever POSSIBLY happen that wouldn't be much of a life!

My parents used to throw me in the back seat of the car with a pillow, and drive overnight to visit our relatives. It was just what people did back then. However now there is no way I would do that. We are much more informed about car crashes and seat belt use than we were then.

One could easily argue that using seat belts at all in ridiculous. After all, what are the odds of being in a crash? However most people would rather use a seat belt than play the odds.

 

[chimpwars]

I understand what you are saying and I'm very glad your DD is okay. To me the thing is a fall like that could happen from anywhere, not just a bike. There was another lady on the dis who's daughter fell off at a playground and had severe head trauma. Does that mean we should start making kids wear helmets when they go up a slide? My fear is that this irrational idea that we can prevent any tragedy will eventually lead to a society of bubble-wrap kids. They actually do sell helmets for babies/toddlers learning to crawl/walk so they don't hurt their heads Currently these are somewhat of a joke to most mothers, and only the "crazy, obsessive, hyper-helicopter" parents buy them, but I can see that 20 years down the line parents who don't have their 1 year old in a helmet will be seen as bad, lazy, uncaring, neligent parents. After all why wouldn't we want to protect our children from any possible harm.

As far as the recommendation that kids don't sit in the front seat until age 14, that actually seems pretty dangerous to me. Kids can get their driver's permit when they turn 15. So we are going to have kids driving who have only been in the front seat for a year

wow it's not "crazy, obsessive, hyper-helicopter" it's a recomendation by the American Academy of Pediatrics to prevent head trauma! If you are riding a bike there is speed involved. Statistically there is no need for a helmet when crawling or going down a slide, I'm not stupid. I'm smart and follow recomendations that prevent severe injuries. I am also a medical provider that has seen many head trauma's from not using helmets when they are recomended. Kids get bruises, broken bones in freak accidents all the time but when something is known to happen frequently and we can prevent a severe injury or save a life why not?

Helmets are not out to prevent bruises (as in crawling) it's to prevent death and severe brain injury. there;s a HUGE difference, (as well as knee pads for a crawler). your metaphor is apples to oranges here

(oh and FYI the helmets for crawling kids are not made the same as bike helmets.) th

oh well, we all make the best choices for our kids.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

Cool, nothing like insulting a large portion of Disers to make your point. FWIW, joining the military was his dream, and everyday I thank him for his service.

I'm confused. Who is the "him" to whom you are referring?

I cannot respond thoroughly without violating Dis rules, but here are my basic beliefs:

1. I am a pacifist. It is innate to my faith tradition. I won't apologize for my belief that a parent dreaming of sending their child off to war is anathema to my values, nor will I apologize for my belief that my children's highest and best use is to work to improve the world in ways that do not include a job in the military.

2. I respect aspects of the military as an institution, and have respect for many military leaders and members of the armed forces because of their values, but I also view it as a full-employment job creator for a certain segment of the population.

3. I think that because the military is used as a job for so many people from a certain segment of the population, it is far too large. But because it's the military, nobody can dare point out that it's really just being used to employ that population demographic, lest they be deemed unpatriotic.

4. Because the military is far too large, in my opinion, we look for opportunities to use it, in order to justify its size, therefore placing people in harm's way while simultaneously wasting huge amounts of money.

5. I believe the money that I believe is being wasted could be better spent on other needs of the nation and the world.

Those are my values. I doubt we'll agree. But please remember than a huge segment of the population agrees with me, just as a huge segment agrees with you, and until we understand the other's position, we're just shouting into the night. I have studied this from many angles, and while I don't agree with the other side, I could probably articulate it more clearly than 99.9% of the people who espouse it. Have you done the same?

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

I understand what you are saying and I'm very glad your DD is okay. To me the thing is a fall like that could happen from anywhere, not just a bike. There was another lady on the dis who's daughter fell off at a playground and had severe head trauma. Does that mean we should start making kids wear helmets when they go up a slide? My fear is that this irrational idea that we can prevent any tragedy will eventually lead to a society of bubble-wrap kids. They actually do sell helmets for babies/toddlers learning to crawl/walk so they don't hurt their heads Currently these are somewhat of a joke to most mothers, and only the "crazy, obsessive, hyper-helicopter" parents buy them, but I can see that 20 years down the line parents who don't have their 1 year old in a helmet will be seen as bad, lazy, uncaring, neligent parents. After all why wouldn't we want to protect our children from any possible harm.

As far as the recommendation that kids don't sit in the front seat until age 14, that actually seems pretty dangerous to me. Kids can get their driver's permit when they turn 15. So we are going to have kids driving who have only been in the front seat for a year

Accidents happen, but failure to adequately prevent the outcomes of foreseeable and common accidents because you cannot prevent every accident is illogical. Bike accidents are common; freak accidents like falling off a slide are not. Our inability to prevent both doesn't mean we shouldn't prevent the one that is much more frequent. I'd dare say that hundreds of thousands of kids have bike accidents each year and most are uninjured. But yet thousands of children suffer head injuries on bikes every year; the ones who do are invariably not wearing helmets. How do you not see that?

I have locks on the doors of my home. I do not have an anti-meteorite missile system in case a meteorite falls from space and hits my home. Should I remove the locks until I can prevent meteorite strikes?

 

[lucifie]

The military can be an amazing career. I was raised in a military family though, so I know the truth of it that outsiders don't see. Thank your son for me too.

It definitely can and not every job in the military is dangerous.

 

[Leajess99]

The military can be an amazing career. I was raised in a military family though, so I know the truth of it that outsiders don't see. Thank your son for me too.

I was an Army Brat and also joined the Army. While I want my kids to get their college education before they choose to join (should they choose to join) I know it can lead to some better job opportunities.

I will say it stinks losing friends that move away (as my family is saying goodbye to another set of friends getting ready to PCS to Alaska) but we have had opportunities that many people never will have.

 

[Leajess99]

I am truly shocked by how many people on this thread are saying this! Thankfully I've never run across anyone so militant about seatbelt use in real life! Do none of your kids ever fall asleep in the car either?? How about on roadtrips Just tonight we were driving home from Six Flags, it was hot and my mom had her coat on. She was getting too hot in the car with the heat on and she joked as she unbuckled to remove her coat "okay, don't wreck now, I'm taking my coat off". I can't believe what a big deal is made over nothing! We used to have a van when I was a kid and the middle seat folded down to make a bed. My mom would make it up into a bed for my brothers to share on roadtrips while I slept across the rear bench. Sure anything COULD have happened but if I lived my life always thinking about any scenario that COULD ever POSSIBLY happen that wouldn't be much of a life!

When the day comes that you are affected by a drunk driver than maybe you will rethink the whole letting your kids unbuckle thing but as long as you can live with the possibility of your child being injured or killed in doing such a thing (which is against the law in all states) than so be it.

 

[Leajess99]

My parents used to throw me in the back seat of the car with a pillow, and drive overnight to visit our relatives. It was just what people did back then. However now there is no way I would do that. We are much more informed about car crashes and seat belt use than we were then.

One could easily argue that using seat belts at all in ridiculous. After all, what are the odds of being in a crash? However most people would rather use a seat belt than play the odds.

I was left to sleep in the car as a kid but today you would go to jail for doing that to your child.

The other thing is that cars are no longer built like they were when most of were kids. Now cars are made of cheaper materials than steel or other true metal. Cars are totaled out so much more now than they were when we were kids.