OT: 1 yr old still doesn't sleep through night.

[brymolmom]

what do I do about tyhe barfing? It is like he is now manipulating us. He barely cries. He just starts this hacking purposeful coughing that ends up gaging him and makes him vomit. I know he is doing it on purpose ( at 11 3/4 month of age.... no kid is that smart right??) he starts to do it when we even say it's time to go to bed!!!!

Now, if you want to keep trying it (and I'm not saying that pp's don't have good points here - just saying those other thought miight not be the best option in all cases) - just make it a situation where he can puke away without incident - put down layers of towels/absorbant pads on the bed and plastic or old blankets or sheets on the floor near the bed. He pukes - you go in remove the one layer and then leave him there without saying a word.

I think I missed the post - How was night #2 after the 3 puking night? Did he puke less? Did you try it for more than one night? If it is truly something you want to do - IMO you need to try it for a week at least. To see if there's improvement - if there is, it might give you the motivation to continue even though it will be a 'messy' week or two. We've all cleaned up puke a couple/few times a night during sicknesses, so we know it's not fun - but it can and is done and can be done to possibly get past this.

Oh yeah - and if it was my own dd (now 4) doing this at almost - 1, I know she would have been manipulating the situation too. She had that in her since birth - she would do what she needed to do to get her way, so I totally understand looking into their eyes and knowing it is purposeful. And that personality won't change - she just tries manipulating me for bigger/different things now.

 

[bunnyscootles]

For the OP - Here's a list of links on research and articles on why NOT to let baby CIO. http://forum.kellymom.net/showthread.php?t=42835

I really don't think CIO is working. Think of what would make YOU puke, how bad a feeling you would have to have to puke tonight when you went to bed. I don't know anyone who can puke without being ill or sticking their finger down their thoats. He's trying to tell you something!

Maybe it's just me, but a bad sleeper is a bad sleeper. If I had to choose between rocking them to sleep for the next 10 years or making them cry themselves to sleep every night. I'd rock them in a heart beat.

 

[brymolmom]

Yes- some puking is horrible, but this is really just, according to the mom, a trained physical solution to his problem. Kind of like kids who have tantrums throwing themselves onto the floor - yes, it looks like it hurts and why, really would they do that to themselves to begin with?

Throwing up isn't that bad really or why would he make himself do it? Due to a medical condition I have to 'force' myself to throw up on occasion, and while it isn't pleasant, it isn't the same as when an illness or bad food causes that revulsion in your stomach.

By the way - Don't get me wrong and think I'm a horrible parent - even I would not let my child do this 3 times a night for too long....But I'm not sure how long the OP even tried it - it sounded like just one night. If I had this reaction for one night, I would most certainly try for longer (and if it improved, continue) - but if it continues for a prolonged amount of time I would consult a doctor and/or try something different.

 

[PiperPizzaz]

Sorry if any of this has been mentioned, I didn't read the entire thread.

1. Sleep begets sleep. It seems weird but, it is true. Is he napping well during the day? Maybe he needs two naps. Does he lay right down for his naps?

2. Sounds like this have gotten bad, have you ever watched supernanny where they sit in the room near the crib but look away from the child. Each night get progressively closer to the door.

Hope you find something that works for you.

 

[Mkrop]

1-year-olds are definitely old enough to manipulate. You don't give them enough credit.

I feel for all these parents who have tough sleepers. I was motivated to get my son to sleep through the night early by friends who got into the habit of rocking and soothing their baby, so by the time she was 18 months old it was taking them 2 or 3 hours EVERY night to put their child to bed. I think it helped that we started DS out right from a very young age of getting himself back to sleep.

But as several PPs have said, some kids are just very resistant to any sleep training.

Well I rocked and did everything the same for DS10. I believed in the cuddling and lullabyes. I rocked until he fell asleep. He is a great sleeper, always has been. Even his allergist was surprised he sleeps so well bc he is such a mouth breather.

DS5 slept great for 3 months, that was it and it was he$$ from 6mos until almost 3 years. I rocked him just the same as I did DS5. It wasnt until I got rid of the nightlight that things changed for him. Now he sleeps great (on occasion we may have a bad stretch but this is rare now), I have a hard time getting him up. He is a very anxious child in his waking hours but he sleeps like a rock now.

So I dont think it is about how as a parent you do anything from the beg or not, I have two kids that I did the exact same thing for and they are as different as night in day from how they got to sleeping through the night to about everything else in their personalities.

I am currently suffering from insominia myself, maybe there is a genetic component. I think it is all the problems I had with DS5 and this has screwed up my sleep clock, add in stress and voila, an insomniac I am. Many people dont understand what I am going through, they just say "oh just sleep" so if people cant grasp that a 38 year old can have trouble sleeping (and I fall asleep just fine, I wake up though and cant get back) I can see why many would have trouble comprehending why a 1 year old might.

 

[bunnyscootles]

brymolmom - don't worry I don't think your a horrible parent

Maybe this is just where different parenting styles see one thing two different ways. My child is a breath-holder, he has been since day one. When he gets mad or frustrated he holds his breath until he turns blue.
I don't think this is his way of "getting what he wants" he doesn't have any way yet to express his anger without a physical reaction. Most kids outgrow this when they are around 2 years old, what else comes around 2? A grasp of the language and the tools to express himself another way.
So when he throws a fit, I don't ignore him until he stops. I hold him tight to me (because he CAN hurt himself lashing around) and I tell him Garrison you cannot touch the stove, it will hurt you. I know your angry but you cannot do that.
So I'm teaching him that he can trust me to be there when he's put himself in danger, or when he's angry at me or I'm angry at him he can come to me. When you cry I will respect your needs and come to you so we can trust each other. This doesn't mean you get what you want, but it means I will try to put myself in your position and see things your way so you will do the same for me.
I was parented this way, so it makes sense to me. For me CIO sends a message that I cannot be trusted to meet your needs. I cannot be relied upon to help you out of a situation you can't handle. Plus I have a PHYSICAL reaction to my child crying, my blood pressure goes up, I get nervous and anxious. I think those feelings are there for a reason and shouldn't be pushed aside.
There needs to be boundaries, limits. I think we all agree on that, where we differ is the way we enforce these things.

 

[brymolmom]

brymolmom - don't worry I don't think your a horrible parent

Maybe this is just where different parenting styles see one thing two different ways. My child is a breath-holder, he has been since day one. When he gets mad or frustrated he holds his breath until he turns blue.
I don't think this is his way of "getting what he wants" he doesn't have any way yet to express his anger without a physical reaction. Most kids outgrow this when they are around 2 years old, what else comes around 2? A grasp of the language and the tools to express himself another way.
So when he throws a fit, I don't ignore him until he stops. I hold him tight to me (because he CAN hurt himself lashing around) and I tell him Garrison you cannot touch the stove, it will hurt you. I know your angry but you cannot do that.
So I'm teaching him that he can trust me to be there when he's put himself in danger, or when he's angry at me or I'm angry at him he can come to me. When you cry I will respect your needs and come to you so we can trust each other. This doesn't mean you get what you want, but it means I will try to put myself in your position and see things your way so you will do the same for me.
I was parented this way, so it makes sense to me. For me CIO sends a message that I cannot be trusted to meet your needs. I cannot be relied upon to help you out of a situation you can't handle. Plus I have a PHYSICAL reaction to my child crying, my blood pressure goes up, I get nervous and anxious. I think those feelings are there for a reason and shouldn't be pushed aside.
There needs to be boundaries, limits. I think we all agree on that, where we differ is the way we enforce these things.

Different strokes for different folks for sure. Whatever works best for the family is best overall. Yes, of course sleeping is 'boring' to a 1 year old. I think that by teaching him/her that you have to do it anyway - it enforces those rules and boundaries and helps them ultimately.

And I feel so badly for those families who have to do the whole rocking for hours or lying down for hours with their kids every night...how in the world do they ever get anything done is what i want to know (actually - I probably do know - they like don't sleep - I NEED my sleep to be a good mommy or 'mean, grumpy mommy' emerges)? My family needs the structure and even though dd is not what you'd call a 'sleeper' (she doesn't need a lot and sometimes wakes at night and stays awake for long periods) - the kids go down to sleep GREAT and within 10 minutes (when needed, we take longer and read more stories when there is time) we can have the whole 'routine' completed. But if that's what that family WANTS to do that is different. However, I get a lot of comments from my neighbors and friends about 'how do you get them to go to bed like that - i WISH I could get them down so easily?' - so I have a feeling that not everyone is in their situation because it actually works best for their family, I think they are in it because they have allowed themselves to be in a situation that they didn't create - but the kids did. Whatever works best for your family I firmly believe it needs to be parent-led (and parents can weigh the desires of the child against the needs of the family).

 

[KariC]

I still want to say, OP, that while it is good to get opinions from other moms, it is very important to discuss this with your physician. Someone you know, you trust, and that you chose to advise you on the health of your son. Because we can all give you different advice (like vomiting baby = bad or vomiting baby = manipulative, or vomiting baby = no bid deal)....so you really need the personal touch and medical opinion of a medical doctor. Seriously. I would hate to think that you might be misguided by any of us on an anonymous message board, and that you might ignore a problem (or attribute a negative personality trait on to a small child that might have permanent connotations for your relationship).

Good luck to you. Remember, this WILL pass. Your baby WILL sleep. If you don't get your house in perfect order because your baby needs you occasionally...that's okay. Trust me, the mess isn't going anywhere!

 

[feedthebirds]

I have 5 children.

4 of my children slept through the night anywhere from 9 wks to 14 weeks, naturally (no methods used other than trying to emphasize that day is for waking, night is for sleeping, feeding at regular intervals), but I did do cio for 2 days when one of them began to wake at night at 18 mos for 2 weeks straight. I used the be-in-the-room-but-do-not-look-at-baby approach for another child also very briefly and it worked great.

2 years ago, I had 4 kids that went to bed great, slept great, I was a happy mommy!!! I loved that I could know that at 9 pm dh and I could sit down and have some alone time. We could go on a trip and they would do great in a hotel or motorhome. I felt bad for my cousin who had to lay down with her son in order for him to sleep, if she even went to the restroom, he would wake. He had no medical issues, I just think his mom gave in to his habit. And I still think that if she had given it a little effort, they both could ahve gotten a good nights sleep, and her dh wouldn't have to sleep on the couch every night (he is now 4 and this is still the case).

That being said, my 5th is a terrible sleeper. He has had issues since birth, born early, aspiration issues, bad reflux (stopped breathing due to spitting up several times, turning purple/blue), pneumonia at 3 mos old, food/formula sensitivity and so on.

When he vomits, he has eating/throat/stomach issues for the next several days, so we and the doctor decided cio is against his well being medically. He also has tear duct issues and his eye will crust and swell for days when he cries or gets a cold. We are seeing a specialist for this as well.

I attribute his sleeping issues to his medical problems, that is the only difference between him and our other kids.

I have just resigned to the fact that he will sleep someday and that I personally do not know a single 5 year old that doesn't sleep thru the night (barring medical issues). I also have a neighbor who has had her son tested for food allergies (naturopathic doctor, not a regular MD) and he is allergic to many things that are not on the general medical community allergy testing thingy. He has since made a tremendous change since eliminating these things from his diet and home, even at school. He no longer wets the bed either.

Guess what I am trying to say is that there may be underlying issues in some children, whereas other children may just be waking out of habit/parent not encouraging or helping with sleep issues. Only you know what the best is for your family.

 

[justhat]

If your son is still vomiting, particularly vomiting at the thought of going to sleep, then I'll share the advice my pediatrician gave me: It's not working. With my daughter it was 3 weeks of waking up and crying and vomiting (remember, she had no trouble falling asleep on her own, it was just staying asleep, so beditime itself wasn't a huge issue at the time we did CIO) and the ped said if it's going to work it works within a week. Clearly we had passed that point so she said to give up and try again when she was older.

I wouldn't see it as the baby manipulating you, though they very well can in some ways. To me, it's not manipulation, but intense fear. Bedtime has become so traumatic that it results in crying and vomiting, so the mere notion can trigger those unpleasant events. For whatever reason, he is not comfortable sleeping in his crib on his own and he has made that clear through crying. Crying so hard he vomits. He can't tell you that he's unhappy any other way and you're not understanding him so it's causing stress to the point where he's vomiting at the thought of going through another night alone in that crib.

Where and how did your son sleep the past year? If he slept with you, or near you, and got nighttime bottles/nursing, this is a huge change from all he's ever known and that by itself would be scary. If he's always been sleepless in the crib maybe he's just grown bad associations with it by this point and can't break them. If that's the case, maybe try playing with him in the crib while he's awake during the day to build good associations with it. Leave him there with some toys for a few minutes while you clean up his room or something. That way he can see you and you can reassure him that he's fine and that he'll be picked up in a few minutes.

Whatever strategy you decide to go with next, I would definitely be sure it's not CIO right now. Try it again in a month or 2 if you want, but he needs a break. I mean, think about if you had an intense fear or dislike of something and no matter what you did or said, no one understood you and kept forcing you back into that situation. It wouldn't be abnormal for you to cringe just at the thought, right? I think that's where your son is at so I woudl say a change is in order.

 

[jodifla]

For the OP - Here's a list of links on research and articles on why NOT to let baby CIO. http://forum.kellymom.net/showthread.php?t=42835

I really don't think CIO is working. Think of what would make YOU puke, how bad a feeling you would have to have to puke tonight when you went to bed. I don't know anyone who can puke without being ill or sticking their finger down their thoats. He's trying to tell you something!

Maybe it's just me, but a bad sleeper is a bad sleeper. If I had to choose between rocking them to sleep for the next 10 years or making them cry themselves to sleep every night. I'd rock them in a heart beat.

Well, you can convince yourself if you want to that sleep training is some sort of evil, but it worked for me, and most of my friends. (The ones who didn't do it have three to five years of not great sleep in their house, although it did work itself out after five years. But who wants to go five years without a good night's sleep? )The difference is I started it when DS was quite young, and my friends started it out of desperation when their children were over a year.

Those articles are just preaching to the choir on that parenting board. They don't change anything.

 

[tjlovespooh]

OK.... my son will be 1 on Jan. 12 and we have yet to get a full night's rest out of him. 6 hours once or twice has been his maximum since birth. It is exhausting. We have tried the no-cry solution and the cry-it-out with no luck from either. He just vomits all over with the CIO method and will literally scream for 3 hours and then vomit again.
Any tricks or help would be graciously accepted!!

Sorry, no tricks or help here. Just wanted to let you know that you are not doing anything wrong - honestly some kids sleep well, others don't. Our DS recently turned 2 and within the past 2 weeks has finally started sleeping between 7 and 10 hours on his own at night! Before that he would be up every couple hours, sometimes for an hour or more at a time - EXHAUSTING! I definitely know where you're coming from (and I'm not the type of person who copes/functions well on little sleep - luckily DH does).
Anyway, we never did CIO but we did try the "no sleep solution" and the "sleep lady" approach throughout DS's first year. It took us a full year to realize (and accept) that DS wasn't a "text-book" baby. We accepted the fact that DS would eventually sleep on his own, through the night, when he was ready. Here we are a year later and it's finally happening!
I simply don't agree with the notion of "oh, this worked for my 3 kids - it should work for every child in the universe." Every person is unique - not just as adults but right from the start - babies simply don't fit into "one size fits all" standards. Ahhh, believe me - I remember feeling like I was doing something wrong as a mother - the most depressing feeling I've ever known. I couldn't grasp why my friend's babies were able to sleep through the night at 6 -8 weeks old, why they're toddlers would (and still do) take 2-3 hour naps (DS has been skipping naps since before he turned 2). Well, I don't question it anymore - just compliment them on how lucky they are to have a great "sleeper". I'm comfortable with my role as mother now, I no longer feel like a failure because my baby doesn't sleep well. He's happy, healthy, and strong - that's what matters most. Of course, many moms, grandparents, aunts, ect still offer unsolicited solutions to DS's poor sleep habits (have you tried ______? how about ______? - Umm, DUH! I've been living like this for 2 years now - don't you think I've tried just about EVERYTHING!). At one time those helpful suggestions would have made me feel like I was doing something wrong (hey, if it worked for Great Aunt Betty and her 8 kids, what am I doing wrong that it doesn't work for me?). Now though, realizing they're just trying to be helpful, I just smile and say, "Yup, tried it - didn't work."

All in all, do what feels right to you as a mom, regardless of what any "expert" tells you (from a book or from your pediatrician's office - our ped actually wanted us to follow a CIO, ignore the crying baby plan! So eventually I got to the point that when she'd ask how DS was sleeping, I'd lie and say we were coping fine). As long as you feel you are doing the best you possibly can to make your whole family comfortable and as happy and healthy as possible then you're doing your job as a mom. If what you're doing just doesn't feel right, something's got to change. Unfortunately, it really does have an awful lot to do with instincts and there isn't any single perfect answer.
Best of luck! Hang in there, you are NOT alone!

 

[tjlovespooh]

The difference is I started it when DS was quite young, and my friends started it out of desperation when their children were over a year.

.

Didn't read the articles you're quoting but I did want to share that I tried sleep training(the sleep lady) with DS from the time he was 3.5 months on - didn't work for us! DS simply wasn't "trainable" I guess. He's 2 now and has finally begun sleeping well at night. DH and I haven't changed our approach at all either. I truly believe every child is different.

 

[jodifla]

Didn't read the articles you're quoting but I did want to share that I tried sleep training(the sleep lady) with DS from the time he was 3.5 months on - didn't work for us! DS simply wasn't "trainable" I guess. He's 2 now and has finally begun sleeping well at night. DH and I haven't changed our approach at all either. I truly believe every child is different.

I think MOST children will be able to sleep using the sleep training, but as we can see, there are definitely exceptions to every rule!

Glad your child is sleeping well now.

 

[justhat]

Well, you can convince yourself if you want to that sleep training is some sort of evil, but it worked for me, and most of my friends. (The ones who didn't do it have three to five years of not great sleep in their house, although it did work itself out after five years. But who wants to go five years without a good night's sleep? )The difference is I started it when DS was quite young, and my friends started it out of desperation when their children were over a year.

Your statement is fairly inaccurate. According to your previous post, you didn't sleep train your son. You were tired and ignored his cries by sleeping through them. Not saying anything against that, but I think you're misrepresenting yourself by saying sleep training worked so well for you when, from what you said, it seems like it was purely unintentional on your part.

 

[jodifla]

Your statement is fairly inaccurate. According to your previous post, you didn't sleep train your son. You were tired and ignored his cries by sleeping through them. Not saying anything against that, but I think you're misrepresenting yourself by saying sleep training worked so well for you when, from what you said, it seems like it was purely unintentional on your part.

We were well on our way sleep training DS when DH had to go out of town. It was already working pretty well, with DS waking up once about 3 or 4, but DH having to be gone accelerated the process, although at that point, it was CIO, and frankly CIO worked really well.

We used The Contented Little Baby Book as a guide. We didn't follow it to the letter, but we took the broad concepts and used them. As PPs, we didn't use a nightlight, we made sure DS napped during the day, but not TOO long during the day, when we fed him at night we made sure not to make it play time, but feeding and back to sleep time.

 

[elderfam]

My first daughter didnt sleep thru the night until she was 6. When she was really young I could get her to sleep in a swing, so I had the swing next to my bed. At about 3 months I started letting her sleep with us. At about 2 she stopped waking us up and I would find her in the lazy boy rocker in the morning. When our next daugher was born she wanted to sleep in the nursery with the baby so we put a jr bed in there for her. I feel your pain, follow your gut and do what feels right to you.

 

[Not so Dumbo]

I was just at the doctors office with my DD today and I asked her about DD not sleeping through the night. ( DD will wake up and need to come into our bed for 5-10 min then go back to her bed)
Anyhow, the doctor said on the nights when she makes it through the night, that morning start a sticker chart and tell her that she was a good girl for sleeping through the night.

 

[bellebud]

want to offer something else... my one sil has twins (boy/girl) and the girl didn't sleep well, until they put her in a toddler bed. that was her turning point as a baby/toddler for sleeping good - they think she was a bit claustrophobic - she'd scream in small elevators too. It helped for a while for going to sleep, BUT she now (at 5yo) and for the past 2 years wakes and cries for hours due to horrible nightmares. Her brother is simply a sleeper.

My other sil has 2 sons, one sleeps, the other doesn't, but at 1 1/2 yo she took the bad sleeper out of his own room/crib, put a toddler bed next to her bed, and it works better (not perfect, but definitely better than it was). He'll fall asleep on the couch, they carry him to his toddler bed when she goes to bed, and some nights he sleep all night there, other nights he simply climbs into bed w/ sil, touches her and goes back to sleep.

Maybe too young to remove from crib yet... is baby walking? maybe a toddler bed or just toddler mattress on the floor (so no falling out) in a completely baby-proofed room w/ a baby gate at the doorway? I also know someone who did a futon mattress on the floor and had pillows up around it to 'feel' cozy like a crib, but left one part open so baby could easily get out, and again, the room was 100% baby-proofed w/ a gate in the doorway.

hope something helps a little... I do think reading everything here (and i posted earlier too), that you should stop the cio for now at least (honestly forever - but that's my very personal opinion and i'm trying to help here, i'm not judging), and do something VERY different so the vomiting association goes away. Move the crib into your room, change his bedroom to another one in the house, do a mattress on the floor, do a pak-n-play in your bedroom, keep him in his room, but maybe in a pak-n-play and you sleep in his room for a bit. Something to completely switch his mind away from the vomiting/going to sleep scenario.

Good luck and let us know how it's going! It's very hard sometimes... a lot of us know!

 

[mousebymarriage]

I know some people may flame me for this, but have you tried co-sleeping?
I thought I was such a good parent because both my boys slept through the night and never had any real sleep issues. Then along came DD. She had trouble sleeping from the get go and co-sleeping was the only was any of us could get any sleep. Around 3yr. we were able to get her back into her own bed to start the evening (she would come in with us in the middle of the night) then eventually that stopped and she is now in her own bed full time.

Sometimes her brothers would let her sleep in their room and she slept fine there too. With her I think it was less about sleeping and more about security.

I would never flame you because I am guitly of it myself. My DS6 was a terrible sleeper when he was a toddler and we tried every idea, suggestion and gimmick but nothing worked so we turned to co-sleeping. It was a God send for all of us. We were all well rested and I never did have that nervous breakdown that was looming in the not so distant future. He spent almost a year in our bed and then gradually went back to his own and he has been sleeping there every night for a couple of years. Good Luck!