Orlando Airport ground transportation update

[Nanajo1]

The towncar services have only themselves to blame. Over the past 7 years I have used various transportation methods to and from OIA. I used Mears Shuttle ONCE, several different Towncar services. I switched from one after spending $300+ and being treated very rudely. Another forgot to pick up my DB family and told them to take a taxi. One said I didn't reserve a grocery stop when I had the confirmation printout. Another sent a petite woman who couldn't/wouldn't help with the luggage. So I tried ME and was quite pleased. If the towncar services didn't treat me like I didn't have a choice I might still use them.
I think a lot of what is going on is sour grapes. I feel badly for those who have lost income but they should look to the reasons people left them. I would still use them if I was treated better.

 

[yayagoofy]

....
"Mears Destination Services" a subsidiary of "Mears Transportation Group" is doing the "greeting work" for Disney on level two (baggage claim). Just like a convention hires a Destination Management Company (DMC) to do the "greeting work" for their arriving guests. Both have to check their manifest lists, that's the GOAA rules.

And of course there is a reason for every rule. Let's say a convention is arriving in Orlando, and it's called "XYZ Corporation". An illegal transportation solicitor could hold a sign with XYZ Corporation on it, then direct those people to their illegal partners waiting on level one. So, that is why the "meet and greet" staff must have a manifest list, with passenger names and their flight arrival information, to check them off the list. Mears meet and greet staff has not been checking a manifest before directing passengers on to DME painted buses operated by Mears. So, they have been breaking GOAA rules, and should be given violations for the infractions.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Fact: Mears employees in the "Meet and Greet" area (level 2) in baggage claim, with "Disney Magical Express" signs, are not checking a manifest list to see if the arriving passenger has a reservation, that is illegal. So, the DME 40% solicited number may be pretty close to true. Anybody who questions this, stand next to them watch, and listen, I have.. nearly every day, what about you?

"Mears Destination Services" a subsidiary of "Mears Transportation Group" is doing the "greeting work" for Disney on level two (baggage claim). Just like a convention hires a Destination Management Company (DMC) to do the "greeting work" for their arriving guests. Both have to check their manifest lists, that's the GOAA rules.

What do the signs say? "Disney Magical Express", or "Disney Magical Express, down one level opposite bus slot # 30"? Because if all they say is Disney Magical Express, the Mears people HAVE to converse with anybody approaching them to ask any question.

Arriving Passenger: "Hello, where do I check in for Magical Express?" or "How do I get to the Disney Magical Express counter?" or "Where is DME located?"
Mears Greeter: "Hello, what is your name?"
AP: "Why do you need my name? I just asked you a question"
MG: "Please give me your name; I have to check this list of 2,500 names to make sure you have already reserved you Magical Express transportation before I can give you any information".

or
AP: "Excuse me, can you please tell me how to get to ____?"
MG: "May I have your name please?"
AP: "Why do you need my name to give me directions?"
MG "I need to find your name on this list before I can speak to you"

And of course there is a reason for every rule. Let's say a convention is arriving in Orlando, and it's called "XYZ Corporation". An illegal transportation solicitor could hold a sign with XYZ Corporation on it, then direct those people to their illegal partners waiting on level one. So, that is why the "meet and greet" staff must have a manifest list, with passenger names and their flight arrival information, to check them off the list. Mears meet and greet staff has not been checking a manifest before directing passengers on to DME painted buses operated by Mears. So, they have been breaking GOAA rules, and should be given violations for the infractions.

Really? When has ANY so-called Meet & Greet person directed ANY arriving passenger to ANY bus? Meet & Greeters meet and greet. Passengers STILL need to check in at the DME counter, after which they are directed to a queue, and from THERE they are directed to a bus.

My understanding is anybody who approaches a Mears or DME employee and asks about transportation to their Disney Resort without a prior reservation is directed to the Mears counter, where they PAY for transportation and are then placed on the same buses with the pre-reserved DME Guests.

Incidentally, "solicit" is defined as to seek to obtain by persuasion, entreaty, or formal application; to petition persistently; importune Once again, NOBODY connected with DME is soliciting anyone.

 

[WillCAD]

All of this greeter stuff seems unnessicarily complicated to me.

It's one thing for a towncar or limo driver to stand at the escalators if they have a reservation from a specific client. The towncar companies have no presence in the terminal, no counters, no signage, no way for their clients to find the cars other than the driver standing at the escalators with a placard; of course, I am in favor of strictly enforcing the regs regarding where they stand, and the regs prohibiting solicitation.

Taxi drivers are in a slightly different boat. Since they never have a specific fare to wait for, they are restricted to waiting with their cabs, in a specific area of the airport. Again, the regs are there to prevent drivers from harassing people who are fresh off the plane, looking for fares, and I am in favor of strictly enforcing them. But since cabbies can't stand around in the terminal, there should be clear signage directing passengers to the taxi stands. Personally, I don't think the signage is clear enough; I've been to MCO a couple of dozen times, spent many hours there, and know the teminal pretty well, and I couldn't tell you where to get a taxi other than "Level 1, with the ground transportation".

Mears and DME have counters in the terminal. I see no need for greeters of any kind for DME or Mears; after all, Mears has been operating for decades without greeters, and they have built up a very successful business. Mears has been allocated a specific group of bus stops, and a specific length of counter space, and they operate just fine - why should DME, which is a very similar service, be any different? I'll say this - the signage is not adequate. On my recent trip I rented from Alamo, whose counter is not far from the DME counter, and I saw the DME counter from a distance, but I had to squint to tell what it actually was.

Ditto for the car rental companies. They have counter space and garage space; they have never felt the need for greeters of any kind in other areas of the terminal, nor have I ever seen the need for them.

But again, the signage is insufficient; if you happen to come onto Level 1 toward the middle of the building, you don't know which direction to walk to find your rental car company, DME, Mears, or the taxi stands. Yes, there are signs, but they are just not good enough.

I would prefer to see a map of Level 1, showing the location of each car company, DME, Mears, taxi stands, and hotel shuttle buses, displayed prominently at the bottom of each escalator. A good enough map would eliminate the need for greeters of any kind; people arriving at the Mears, DME, or rental car counters could be directed into the proper queues by the various companies' employees (which the rental companies and the airlines do when it's crowded), and then all of this greeter and solicitation stuff would become a moot point.

 

[Lewisc]

You answered your own question. Guests using Mears went to baggage claim then went down one level. Mears has desks in four locations, two in each side of the terminal. DME guests arriving in the B side of the terminal have to ignore the signs directing them to B baggage claim and go directly to the A side of the airport.

I think all that's really needed is a dozen large signs but I've read the airport won't permit it.

Mears and DME have counters in the terminal. I see no need for greeters of any kind for DME or Mears; after all, Mears has been operating for decades without greeters, and they have built up a very successful business. Mears has been allocated a specific group of bus stops, and a specific length of counter space, and they operate just fine - why should DME, which is a very similar service, be any different? I'll say this - the signage is not adequate.

 

[yayagoofy]

........Really? When has ANY so-called Meet & Greet person directed ANY arriving passenger to ANY bus? Meet & Greeters meet and greet. Passengers STILL need to check in at the DME counter, after which they are directed to a queue, and from THERE they are directed to a bus.

My understanding is anybody who approaches a Mears or DME employee and asks about transportation to their Disney Resort without a prior reservation is directed to the Mears counter, where they PAY for transportation and are then placed on the same buses with the pre-reserved DME Guests.

Incidentally, "solicit" is defined as to seek to obtain by persuasion, entreaty, or formal application; to petition persistently; importune Once again, NOBODY connected with DME is soliciting anyone.

Meet and Greet staff is hired for the purpose of greeting their quests with pre-arranged transportation, checking to make sure they are on the manifest, then directing that passenger to their bus, van, limo, towncar, etc. That is their job, that's what they do everyday, no matter what company they are employed by.

The above paragraph starting with "My understanding is..." That is a good example of a blatant violation of the Orlando Airport's soliciting rules.

Reference; Greater Orlando Aviation Authority (GOAA), Ground Transportation Rules and Regulations (GTRR): "Section 2 Definitions: 2.63 Solicitation. The term "Solicitation" means actions by a Driver, Affiliate, or any other Person on Airport property which constitutes the illegal advertising, offering, arranging, agreeing to, or transporting of Passengers, as further defined in Section 5."

I'm not going go through GTRR's approx. 60 pages, to explain Section 5 with all it's sub-paragragh's, and how each word is defined in the GTRR document. You'll just have to take my word for it, or have your lawyer review the document and explain it to you.

I hear January 3, 2006 GOAA will start enforcing their rules regarding DME/Mears soliciting. Meet and Greet staff members will be subject to suspension, and the company will be subject to fines.

The rules are not new...

 

[kaytieeldr]

Meet and Greet staff is hired for the purpose of greeting their quests with pre-arranged transportation, checking to make sure they are on the manifest, then directing that passenger to their bus, van, limo, towncar, etc. That is their job, that's what they do everyday, no matter what company they are employed by...

So we're back to "I can't speak to you unless your name is on this 25 page list somewhere..." "No, I can't answer your question until you give me your name and I locate on this manifest" "I must find you on my list before I can even tell you where the Information Desk is; I am not permitted to answer any questions unless you are on this list".

Mears meet and greet staff has not been checking a manifest before directing passengers on to DME painted buses operated by Mears. So, they have been breaking GOAA rules, and should be given violations for the infractions.

I still don't see any evidence that Meet & Greeters have been directing passengers on to DME painted buses operated by Mears. Frankly, how are they doing this? Telling the passengers to exit the terminal on Level 2 (where they are) and jump over the edge of the roadway onto the roof of the waiting bus, where they can then climb down into the bus through the sunroof?

The article nicmicnut quotes claims close to 40% of arriving passengers riding DME buses to their onsite resorts each day did not have advance reservations. Approximately 10,000 passengers take DME each day. For ease, let's say that's 5,000 each way. So according to that article, 2,000 Disney-Resort-bound passengers every day are solicited, according to the GOAA alternate definition, every day? Really?

 

[Lewisc]

I agree, I think the 40% number is BS. Mears/DME greeters are not permitted to direct passengers without reservations to the Mears desk to purchase transportation. If the passenger has a reservation the greeter can direct the passenger to the DME desk. Nothing more.

So we're back to "I can't speak to you unless your name is on this 25 page list somewhere..." "No, I can't answer your question until you give me your name and I locate on this manifest" "I must find you on my list before I can even tell you where the Information Desk is; I am not permitted to answer any questions unless you are on this list".

I guess they could do that, but most of them will just direct you to the elevator or escalator that will get you to level one in the A side of the terminal. The greeters are only allowed to direct passengers with a reservation to the DME desk.

I still don't see any evidence that Meet & Greeters have been directing passengers on to DME painted buses operated by Mears. Frankly, how are they doing this? Telling the passengers to exit the terminal on Level 2 (where they are) and jump over the edge of the roadway onto the roof of the waiting bus, where they can then climb down into the bus through the sunroof?

 

[seashoreCM]

Poll question:
What should a Mears or DME greeter say first when approached by a guest who asks, "Where is the Magical Express?"

1. Sorry, I don't know.

2. "A" side of main terminal, lowest level corridor, in line with bus space #30 outside.

3. Do you have a reservation?

4. Go ask at the information booth.

 

[Lewisc]

I think the limo industry wants the greeter to ask for their name and check the manifest and first make sure they have a reservation.

My answer is 5. Tell the passenger how to get to the DME desk. Not your answer 2. Direct them to the elevator or escalator and tell them which way to go. Something like go to the elevator over there, take it to level one and then go right. Go the DME desk or ask the cast member on the level for directions.

I think a dozen well places signs should eliminate the need for greeters.

Poll question:
What should a Mears or DME greeter say first when approached by a guest who asks, "Where is the Magical Express?"

1. Sorry, I don't know.

2. "A" side of main terminal, lowest level corridor, in line with bus space #30 outside.

3. Do you have a reservation?

4. Go ask at the information booth.

 

[WillCAD]

Poll question:
What should a Mears or DME greeter say first when approached by a guest who asks, "Where is the Magical Express?"

1. Sorry, I don't know.

2. "A" side of main terminal, lowest level corridor, in line with bus space #30 outside.

3. Do you have a reservation?

4. Go ask at the information booth.

The answer is E. None of the above. Mears and DME should not have greeters - they have a counter. Alamo doesn't have greeters, Lynx doesn't have greeters, Checker Cab doesn't have greeters, none of the airlines have greeters - why should Mears or DME have them?

Instead of "greeting" passengers, these employees with manifests should be standing at the bus stops, checking off people as they board the busses to make sure that everybody who gets on has a reservation. Anybody without an advance reservation should be told, "Sorry, this service is by reservation only."

Now we get to the detailed part. If someone asks, "Well, if I can't get on this bus, how am I supposed to get to my Disney resort?!", the proper reply is, "You can take a taxi, rent a car, or use the Mears shuttle service. I can direct you to any of those options that you choose."

 

[Lewisc]

The DME desk is only on the A side of the terminal. Makes sense since DME guests get to skip baggage claim. The existing signage isn't sufficient.

I agree DME doesn't need greeters but considering the thousands of passengers each day that uses DME some decent signage would be appropriate.

The airlines may not have "greeters" but they've authorized skycaps to act on their behalf in greeting passengers that need help with their luggage.

The answer is E. None of the above. Mears and DME should not have greeters - they have a counter. Alamo doesn't have greeters, Lynx doesn't have greeters, Checker Cab doesn't have greeters, none of the airlines have greeters - why should Mears or DME have them?

Instead of "greeting" passengers, these employees with manifests should be standing at the bus stops, checking off people as they board the busses to make sure that everybody who gets on has a reservation. Anybody without an advance reservation should be told, "Sorry, this service is by reservation only."

Now we get to the detailed part. If someone asks, "Well, if I can't get on this bus, how am I supposed to get to my Disney resort?!", the proper reply is, "You can take a taxi, rent a car, or use the Mears shuttle service. I can direct you to any of those options that you choose."

 

[seashoreCM]

The Doubletree (or Marriott or Sheraton, etc.) bus pulls up to the curb outside the airport terminal. The driver opens the door and gets out of the bus holding his clipboard. Hotel guests line up and the driver starts checking names on a list.

One person in line, as he gets up to the driver, starts asking questions.
(snip)
Driver, "This shuttle is by reservation only"
Guest: "Well, if I can't get on this bus, how am I supposed to get to the hotel?"
Driver: "You can take a taxi, rent a ..."
Policeman who just walked up, "Sir you have to move now, you have sat here too long and are blocking traffic.

You: (finish the story)
______________________
OT: (happened to me at San Francisco Airport, pre-9/11)
I was taking a bus shuttle (actually to San Jose Airport) and the driver first loaded luggage, then checked a manifest and collected tickets and cash fares as passengers boarded. A policeman came up and told the driver he was not supposed to be selling tickets. (I suppose to keep traffic moving) (stop OT) The driver hastily loaded up all the people (hint, hint) (resume OT) (the bus company would never figure out the actual head count so long as the driver had not yet torn tickets out of his ticket book) and went to a secluded area to finish selling and collecting tickets. After a few minutes he declared that he would collect the rest of the tickets when he got to San Jose and resumed driving. I didn't observe how he identified those who did not surrender their tickets at boarding but he did not interrupt me as I disembarked.

More curiously: This was "flight xxx" on United Airlines. My ticket receipt spelled it out: Flight XXX BOS-SFO (Boeing 737), Flight xxx SFO-SJC (a bus).

 

[WillCAD]

The Doubletree (or Marriott or Sheraton, etc.) bus pulls up to the curb outside the airport terminal. The driver opens the door and gets out of the bus holding his clipboard. Hotel guests line up and the driver starts checking names on a list.

One person in line, as he gets up to the driver, starts asking questions.
(snip)
Driver, "This shuttle is by reservation only"
Guest: "Well, if I can't get on this bus, how am I supposed to get to the hotel?"
Driver: "You can take a taxi, rent a ..."
Policeman who just walked up, "Sir you have to move now, you have sat here too long and are blocking traffic.

You: (finish the story)

Doesn't happen at MCO. The Doubletree (or Marriott or Sheraton, etc.) buses have designated bus stops which the hotels pay for, where the busses can pull up for as long as it takes to load and unload without blocking traffic.

The Doubletree (or Marriott or Sheraton, etc.) buses at MCO also don't operate by reservation only, nor do any of the off-site rental car shuttle buses. They are free to carry any passengers who show up, even if the passengers have no car or hotel ressie.

I would guess that this is so because the hotels and rental car places do not make any money off the actual transportation to and from their places of business, but provide that transportation gratis as a courtesy to their customers. Mears, on the other hand, charges for their service, and although Disney does not charge the Guest for DME, Mears does charge Disney for each DME passenger. This makes both Mears and DME paid transport businesses conducted on airport property, as opposed to free courtesy shuttles, and subjects them to the same kinds of laws that govern taxis and car services.

 

[Chuck S]

Doesn't happen at MCO. The Doubletree (or Marriott or Sheraton, etc.) buses have designated bus stops which the hotels pay for, where the busses can pull up for as long as it takes to load and unload without blocking traffic.

The Doubletree (or Marriott or Sheraton, etc.) buses at MCO also don't operate by reservation only, nor do any of the off-site rental car shuttle buses. They are free to carry any passengers who show up, even if the passengers have no car or hotel ressie.

I would guess that this is so because the hotels and rental car places do not make any money off the actual transportation to and from their places of business, but provide that transportation gratis as a courtesy to their customers. Mears, on the other hand, charges for their service, and although Disney does not charge the Guest for DME, Mears does charge Disney for each DME passenger. This makes both Mears and DME paid transport businesses conducted on airport property, as opposed to free courtesy shuttles, and subjects them to the same kinds of laws that govern taxis and car services.

Except that the cost of those "free" offsite hotel shuttles is picked up by the hotel, and actually calulated into the room cost, just as DME is paid for by Disney through their room costs. The difference is (apparently) those shuttles are owned by the hotels and Disney contracts with Mears. If any of those offsite shuttle are operated on a contract basis through a transportation company, then Disney should be allowed the same "no checklist" rules, or Disney should be allowed to run their own "Disney" transport buses.

 

[WillCAD]

Except that the cost of those "free" offsite hotel shuttles is picked up by the hotel, and actually calulated into the room cost, just as DME is paid for by Disney through their room costs. The difference is (apparently) those shuttles are owned by the hotels and Disney contracts with Mears. If any of those offsite shuttle are operated on a contract basis through a transportation company, then Disney should be allowed the same "no checklist" rules, or Disney should be allowed to run their own "Disney" transport buses.

Yes, exactly - Disney should be held to exactly the same standard as other comparable companies.

I'm having difficulty with deciding which standard DME should be held to, however. Because it's actually Mears operating under an exclusive contract to Disney, DME has aspects of both Mears and a run-of-the-mill hotel shuttle. So which standard should DME be held to? Hotel shuttle? Or paid bus transport?

 

[Chuck S]

Yes, exactly - Disney should be held to exactly the same standard as other comparable companies.

I'm having difficulty with deciding which standard DME should be held to, however. Because it's actually Mears operating under an exclusive contract to Disney, DME has aspects of both Mears and a run-of-the-mill hotel shuttle. So which standard should DME be held to? Hotel shuttle? Or paid bus transport?

Personally, I would look at how the service "appears" to the guests. To the typical "free" Disney DME user, it is, for all practical purposes, a hotel shuttle with the extra service of "behind the scenes" luggage collection fo rthose that received their tags prior to departure. It should be treated like the free shuttle services.

 

[SeaSpray]

Wow this thread is still alive and kicking!

Anyway, I would like to make a comment regarding the "greeters";

Disney has had Greeters, wearing the Big White Gloves, LONG before ME ever started. They were, and still are, there for the Disney Cruise Line guests who use Disney transportation to Port Canaveral. They merely direct the guests to the correct location in the airport so they can get on the DCL bus.

Why do people have to assume that EVERYTHING that Disney does is to ONLY make money? Some companies, and I truly believe this about Disney to a large degree, DO things in order to make their guests more comfortable, less stressed, to be helpful, etc.

I have seen this in many areas of Disney, including their parks, resorts, restaurants, and the cruise line. I believe this is why we pay a bit more for Disney; they repeatedly give better service and a much better product than their competetors.

This is my opinion; feel free to disagree

 

[Lewisc]

According to a few articles you need an advance hotel reservation to ride the hotel shuttle. In fact that's the same language in the DME contract that Disney was interperting to allow them to transport guests without a DME reservation but who had a hotel reservation.

Last few times I rode a hotel shuttle they checked my name off a reservation list.

I don't know for a fact but I assume some of the hotels hire an outside provider to provide shuttle transportation. Some of the smaller hotels share shuttle buses.

The industry can't compete with free. That's the real issue.

Doesn't happen at MCO. The Doubletree (or Marriott or Sheraton, etc.) buses have designated bus stops which the hotels pay for, where the busses can pull up for as long as it takes to load and unload without blocking traffic.

The Doubletree (or Marriott or Sheraton, etc.) buses at MCO also don't operate by reservation only, nor do any of the off-site rental car shuttle buses. They are free to carry any passengers who show up, even if the passengers have no car or hotel ressie.

I would guess that this is so because the hotels and rental car places do not make any money off the actual transportation to and from their places of business, but provide that transportation gratis as a courtesy to their customers. Mears, on the other hand, charges for their service, and although Disney does not charge the Guest for DME, Mears does charge Disney for each DME passenger. This makes both Mears and DME paid transport businesses conducted on airport property, as opposed to free courtesy shuttles, and subjects them to the same kinds of laws that govern taxis and car services.

 

[WillCAD]

The industry can't compete with free. That's the real issue.

It probably is, at least to most people. To me, it's a tragic side issue; I think Disney has a perfect right to supply DME to it's Guests, and should have done so decades ago.

It's a terrible tragedy that Disney allowed private companies to grow an entire multi-million-dollar industry in Orlando, then after nearly 35 years they decided to start providing free transportation to their hotels, putting a hurt on that entire industry. It's tragic, and it's rather heartless, but it's not illegal.

The only issue to me is whether Disney is being held to, and abiding by, the same regulations that apply to all other transportation services at MCO. They were breaking the rules by having greeters on Level 3, which is strictly prohibited, but they have stopped that practice. Whether they are breaking the regs regarding "soliciting" new fares in the terminal is more difficult to determine. If they are not, they're cool; if they are, they should be made to stop by GOAA.