Opinions on the "El Rio Del Tiempo" theme.

[TheDogbots]

You're right. Walt was an idiot for putting in Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln.

I was just reading this today, maybe you should too. I really don't know why you can't have both.

http://www.matterhorn1959.com/blog1/lincoln17.jpg

do you have the top link of that? i would like to know what that is from... I am giving a paper on Disney's influence on how we perceive history next weekend, and would love to find what that source is, since its a direct quote.

____

also... defending that point... as any biography of Walt says, even the negative ones, Walt had always had an interest in edutainment.

 

[dunnhorn]

Wow, these are great ideas....

 

[dunnhorn]

[/QUOTE=Ariel Mae;17460791]



Boycotting is a form of negative feedback.

[/QUOTE]


I'm not sure Disney would notice if anyone boycotted the ride. The last time we rode it, nobody was in line. I rode it 3x with DD and DS without getting off.

 

[dunnhorn]

I don't need to eat a poop sandwich to know that it will taste bad.

Let me see if I got this straight... we're all WDW fans and NOW we're worried about cheese?

 

[cristen]

do you have the top link of that?

http://matterhorn1959.blogspot.com/

It is someone's blog. Every Saturday he posts Disneyland's SOP's. This one happened to be on Mr. Lincoln.

 

[EUROPACL]

Let me see if I got this straight... we're all WDW fans and NOW we're worried about cheese?

What?? Can you dumb that down for me.

 

[lewis_family]

All of this is kinda funny for this reason. In 2004 I learned that Mexico was the orgianl place Pirates of the Caribbean was suppose to be placed. As most know, when Disney opened in 1971, they had no plans to build a Pirates ride in the Magic Kingdom, but at the same time desgins were in place for Pirates to be a part of Epcot. The very very very very early design stages that took place for Mexico were for Pirates to be placed there. As carzy as this sound, if you think about it hard enough it makes sense.

 

[DancingBear]

That really doesn't sound right. Pirates opened at WDW in 1973. How far along were the plans for Epcot's Mexico pavillion at the point when they decided to put Pirates into MK?

 

[YoHo]

IMHO DW is an amusement park, a place to go for fun, many of us bringing children.

If Walt were alive, he probably would have started crying if he heard you say this.

You need to learn some Disneyland/Disney World history if you think it's "Just" and amusment park. And your comments about Epcot fly in the face of what the people that BUILT EPCOT have said.

 

[YoHo]

I am a little shocked by some of the vitriol being expressed here. This is a pretty lame ride that is not a draw. Are there two more bashed rides than this and maelstrom? Well besides stitch, the fact of the matter is that they need better draws in world showcase, if Donald is the hook that leads to this becoming a decent ride and pulling a few more visitors over to the mexico pavillion, then that is good for the entire park as a whole.

The MAelstrom is Awesome and Always has been. I rode it the first year it was open. I KEEL YOU FOR DISPARAGING IT!!!!!!!!!!!


(How's that for Vitriol?)

 

[YoHo]

All of this is kinda funny for this reason. In 2004 I learned that Mexico was the orgianl place Pirates of the Caribbean was suppose to be placed. As most know, when Disney opened in 1971, they had no plans to build a Pirates ride in the Magic Kingdom, but at the same time desgins were in place for Pirates to be a part of Epcot. The very very very very early design stages that took place for Mexico were for Pirates to be placed there. As carzy as this sound, if you think about it hard enough it makes sense.

This isn't possible, the MExico pavilion wasn't even remotely fleshed out in the early 70's. Prbably you got to rumors mixed up.

MK was originally supposed to get a ride called the Western River adventure that would have been built underneath Big Thunder Mountain. It would have been the same format as Pirates, but longer and with the switchback that ended up in Maelstrom. When WDW Opened, People kept asking where that Pirates ride they had heard about was. Disney got scared and put in an abreviated version of Pirates and scrapped Western River.

 

[boomhauer]

Back to the original question, I'm disappointed. For 2 reasons:

1.I thoroughly enjoyed the ride as it was.
2.I think putting Donald Duck in the ride (though he's may favorite character) is insulting and just dumbing down the attraction.

Couldn't it have been rehabbed but kept a bit more integrity than it will have with Donald Duck being the spokesperson for the Mexico pavillion?

 

[Arvandor_Ilfirin]

Whew, skimming through all of that angst gave me a headache!

All manner of forum-crusading aside, I won't competely hate this ride until I've ridden it...However, I do have some issues with the way the 'Gran Fiesta Tour starring The Three Caballeros' seems to be shaping up.

- Why the character gimmick??
I really want to hear their intelligent reasoning behind this...I mean, you've just loaded us up with all the Pixar we can handle (I love Pixar, but it's becoming more than I can take...If I see another half-baked Pixar ride, I'm going to gag.) and now you take away an older ride to replace it with a poorly contrived story about Donald getting lost in Mexico? Walt pushed creativity to it's limits, and the best we can get now is a plotline a two year old could make? Maybe it will be a nice ride...but a weak foundation is not a good start...

-Yo hablo--what?
We're taking an educational narrative on Mexico from a trio containing only one Mexican? Maybe it's just me, but that seems to make as much sense as Godzilla teaching us about China... Asian=/ all the same country... Hispanic=/ Mexican. My father is Cuban, try telling him he's Mexican and see what happens.

I love El Rio De Tiempo...My brother and I put up our feet, enjoy the atmosphere, and have a great laugh at the cheesy puppets...I'm sure I'll still enjoy the 'Gran Fiesta Tour starring The Three Caballeros', (whew that's a mouthful) but I doubt that I'll be experiencing anything more spectacular than it's predecessor.

 

[Ariel Mae]

A note on the earlier reference to characters in the parks.

Rarely do you see characters in Epcot of the Disney variety. Pooh, Timon, Cinderella, they're found in Magic Kingdom, placed accurately in such a park. Epcot's Countries are more about the...country histories than the characters. You may see Aladdin in Morocco, Jasmine, too, but that is rare. Epcot is not the place for Disney characters. That's a Magic Kingdom/MGM Studies thing.

 

[Ariel Mae]

Nah, the real issue here isn't the ride or even the changes. The real issue is someone has the audacity to challenge the errant assumptions of frequent posters who perceive themselves as guardians of the "true Disney".

It's not about the 'true' Disney, it's about keeping to what Walt set. We're slowly taking away the 'family' gap. The 'all families can spend time together' setting Walt introduced to us with the Land and the World. With this, we're placing a generation gap between the parents and kids.

The issue IS the ride changes. The issue IS the fact that, though slow, "El Rio Del Tiempo" was a relaxing ride both children and parents could enjoy. Now, with Donald, it's appealing to one over the other.

 

[Ariel Mae]

I'm not sure Disney would notice if anyone boycotted the ride. The last time we rode it, nobody was in line. I rode it 3x with DD and DS without getting off.

There's always a wait when I have gone. Maybe not a long wait, but a line, nonetheless. We go during the May/June season, and sometimes we went during the Winter season, and there were always kids excited to go on the ride, always kids coming off it with smiles on their faces.

I don't think the boycott would be numerous, but it would be noticeable.

 

[Another Voice]

Disney was certainly quick to attempt a fix on 'Journey into your Imagination' when they came out with that horrible gutting of that attraction and the public let it be known loud and clear they disliked the ride. And Disney was very quick to slam shut the doors on 'SuperStar Limo' at California Adventure when the public told them in no uncertain terms the ride was horrible.

Granted we've suffered with 'Tiki Room - Under New Management' and 'Stitch Encounter' for longer than should be legally allowed (aren't their child abuse laws we can apply?), but those are pavilion centerpieces like 'Imagination' and 'Rio' are. Remember the ride is there only to bring in people to eat, drink and shop. If no one goes on the ride, there will be many fewer sombaros and churros being sold.


By the way - the success of Walt Disney World is because it appeals to people with more than a five-year old's menality. Dumbing the place down to the level of people looking for "an amusement park" would pretty much be the end of things. Besides, more people go to the Smithsonian than go to the Magic Kingdom. If Disney wants to grow as a business perhaps it ought to ignore the five year old and their like-minded parents.

 

[DisneyGirl4188]

IMHO DW is an amusement park, a place to go for fun, many of us bringing children. That being said, although EPCOT is supposed to encompass a more "educational" perspective one must remember that this ride is just that - a ride! I mean it's disney, should you expect to go and recieve a history lesson, or do you expect to see your 5yo laughing at donald duck? If you seek the former then perhaps you should research where to find a good museum and if you're in search of the latter then GO TO DISNEY WORLD

I agree. I do like that Epcot is educational; however, people do want to have fun on their vacation.

Adding a character to draw in more people might not hurt the ride (I am still reserving my opinion until I experience this ride myself). I can think of several kids that don't want to learn about Mexico while at WDW. They would be bored to tears (especially during the original version of this ride). Now, you bring in a character and they get a little more interested.

Teachers are constantly doing things to make learning fun. What is the difference between them doing it and WDW?

A note on the earlier reference to characters in the parks.

Rarely do you see characters in Epcot of the Disney variety. Pooh, Timon, Cinderella, they're found in Magic Kingdom, placed accurately in such a park. Epcot's Countries are more about the...country histories than the characters. You may see Aladdin in Morocco, Jasmine, too, but that is rare. Epcot is not the place for Disney characters. That's a Magic Kingdom/MGM Studies thing.

Every time I have stepped foot into Epcot, I have seen characters. From the opening ceremony to walking through the countries, I see TONS of characters.

It's DISNEY; everywhere is a place for characters.

There's always a wait when I have gone. Maybe not a long wait, but a line, nonetheless. We go during the May/June season, and sometimes we went during the Winter season, and there were always kids excited to go on the ride, always kids coming off it with smiles on their faces.

I have been in April, Nov, and Dec. Never once has there been a wait to ride. Most times we were alone in the boats. The only smiles I saw were from the people that were laughing at this ride.


People that may never have ridden this before may decide to try the new version. How is that a bad thing (well, besides making longer wait times).

I know Disney isn't perfect (although I do like several of the rides mentioned that others seem to despise). I am fully aware that they make mistakes, but I am not going to slam them on something I haven't even seen yet.

 

[Another Voice]

Teachers are constantly doing things to make learning fun. What is the difference between them doing it and WDW?

I remember having lunch, many years ago, with a young suit from a major studio. He was bemoaning his fate, certain his studio was about to go out of business and that he would loss a job he worked very long to get.

He couldn’t get over how stupid his studio was. They had just sunk $200 million into a sure-to-fail movie about a long ago event. There wasn't a single person under the age of sixity that even remembered the stupid event. It was a stupid history leason about stupid people wearing stupid hats. His studio was stupid – today’s kids are hip, they don’t care about learning any thing, they don’t care about education or history or any of that stupid stupid stuff. People wanted excitement and “now”, not olde tyme stuff.

The movie was, of course, Titanic – a movie that made a billion dollars from teenagers who refuse to be educated at the movies. “Education” is all how you present things.


There is no reason education and entertainment can’t be one in the same thing. That’s the entire point for Epcot. It takes skill, talent and hard work – all in short supply at Disney these days – but it is possible.

People demanding the duck are letting Disney off the cheap and easy way. People who can’t take a bit of learning in their vacation are taking the cheap and easy way in their lives. Disney used to stand for more, they used to try for more. I don’t intended to give them a pass because they can’t be bothered, and I’m certainly not going to listen to people who struggling to hold onto their ignorance.

 

[HarambeGuy]

A note on the earlier reference to characters in the parks.

Rarely do you see characters in Epcot of the Disney variety. Pooh, Timon, Cinderella, they're found in Magic Kingdom, placed accurately in such a park. Epcot's Countries are more about the...country histories than the characters. You may see Aladdin in Morocco, Jasmine, too, but that is rare. Epcot is not the place for Disney characters. That's a Magic Kingdom/MGM Studies thing.

Well, there IS the permanent meet & greet in the back of Morocco, where you can find the Aladdin characters virtually all day long. However, the point as I see it is that they have not been made the focus of the pavillion. They are tucked away in the back - available to people that want to see them and easy to bypass for others. And I think this discussion really is about more than just the one ride. It's the philosophy that leads to branding the Living Seas with Nemo, and things like that.

Personally, I'll go see it just to see what it's like. I've ridden the original maybe twice, and it's been on my "miss" list for a while now - other priorities. I've never thought it was nearly as good as Maelstrom. This will at least get me back into a boat one more time, and I guess that's the whole point (because they need be to enter the pavillion in order to sell me the sombrero-wearing Donald). Problem is, they seem to have decided that getting me to come back once is sufficient. I'd like to see them try to put together something that makes me keep on coming back based on quality rather than newness.

But even though I am giving the benefit of the doubt (that's just in my nature), I do reserve the right to be disappointed.