Opinions & help needed - split classes elementary school - urgent

[Married_A_Disney_Nut]

Hi

I am partially needing to vent here. I have in principal never been a strong supporter of split classes. For one, the teacher needs to be very organized and a strong teacher in order to handle the split ratio of the class. Second, I never wanted my children in with older children ie; if she is in grade 3 and is in a split grade 3/4 I was worried that socially the grade 4's were much further ahead that way.My dd still believes in magic and in Santa etc.

I have always requested in writing that my dd not be placed into a split class and did so again for this school year.

My dd came home today and informed me that her class is being turned into a 2/3 split class because there are too many grade 2's in the school.The teacher who had the split grade 3/4 class will now only have grade 3's and so there will be three grade three's and one 2/3 split class. 5 of her students are being transferred out of the class to make room for some grade 2's. The class only had 19 students to begin with.

My dd is very bright (if I do say so myself ) and at the end of last year her teacher was trying to convince me to put her into at grade 3/4 split so she can do grade 4 work while in grade 3.

I am now worried that she is going to be bored out of her mind in the split 2/3 class, is going to get 1/2 the time for learnings in grade 3 and has testing this year. I also wonder if this could potentially put her behind in grade 4.

I do not know if her teacher has taught a split class before and the other problem is we are going away to WDW and on the X-mas cruise for most of December.

So what do I do, do I speak with the teacher and ask her how she is going to handle having a split? do I request the principal move her to a straight grade 3 class as per my written request back in May or do I leave her there.

She likes her teacher. The other classes however have some of her friends in it - although that is to me not the key factor in moving her.

PLease help. The changes in the classroom are tomorrow.

Denise

 

[LoriLea]

Denise,
We've had lots of experience with splits at our school. Unfortunately at our school, once class lists are made, they absolutely will not make changes.

DS11 - now in grade 6 (a B student, has difficulty focussing, needs extra attention) was in a split in grade 3, 4 and 5.
2/3 split in 3, 4/5 split in 4 and 4/5 split in 5. I'm not a teacher so I don't know what they are supposed to do but I found that the teachers tended to teach to the upper level grade. I don't believe that the splits affected the testing. The most difficult year for him was when he was in Grade 4 in a 4/5 split. The work load compared with the previous year was extremely heavy. For him, I don't believe that the splits were a positive thing. I am so happy that he is in a straight Gr.6 class this year and so is he.

DD9 - in Grade 4 is in a split for the first time (4/5). She is a strong student and I don't have any concerns about the split. Had she been placed in a 3/4 split, I would also not have concerns with her. They often put the stronger students in this situation as they have the ability to work independantly.

I hope everything works out for you.
Lori

 

[bbangel]

Not a parent but I was in several split classes as a kid (both the younger and the older side of the split). I found them to be great. The older kids get to learn how to be effective leaders and to work independantly and with initiative among other things. Remember that school is one of the only places where we are forced to choose our peers based on age!
You know your child best. If you have concerns, by all means, talk to the principal. You may want to mention to the teacher that your daughter has no problem with her, just that you feel she would learn better in a single grade environment.

 

[drag n' fly]

Hi

I am partially needing to vent here. I have in principal never been a strong supporter of split classes. For one, the teacher needs to be very organized and a strong teacher in order to handle the split ratio of the class. Second, I never wanted my children in with older children ie; if she is in grade 3 and is in a split grade 3/4 I was worried that socially the grade 4's were much further ahead that way.My dd still believes in magic and in Santa etc.

I have always requested in writing that my dd not be placed into a split class and did so again for this school year.

My dd came home today and informed me that her class is being turned into a 2/3 split class because there are too many grade 2's in the school.The teacher who had the split grade 3/4 class will now only have grade 3's and so there will be three grade three's and one 2/3 split class. 5 of her students are being transferred out of the class to make room for some grade 2's. The class only had 19 students to begin with.

My dd is very bright (if I do say so myself ) and at the end of last year her teacher was trying to convince me to put her into at grade 3/4 split so she can do grade 4 work while in grade 3.

I am now worried that she is going to be bored out of her mind in the split 2/3 class, is going to get 1/2 the time for learnings in grade 3 and has testing this year. I also wonder if this could potentially put her behind in grade 4.

I do not know if her teacher has taught a split class before and the other problem is we are going away to WDW and on the X-mas cruise for most of December.

So what do I do, do I speak with the teacher and ask her how she is going to handle having a split? do I request the principal move her to a straight grade 3 class as per my written request back in May or do I leave her there.

She likes her teacher. The other classes however have some of her friends in it - although that is to me not the key factor in moving her.

PLease help. The changes in the classroom are tomorrow.

Denise

Ironically I just got back from meet the teacher night and AGAIN for the third year my daughter has been put in another split class a 5/6 split. What I did was meet the teacher perused her curriculum and did exactly what you said asked her how she was planning to teach a split class. You know how well your daughter is doing and you are aware of how much time you have available to assist her with any roadblocks at home. Only you know what is best for her. I think you are appraoching this as any rational responsible parent would. What you, your child and your school think will be what makes your final decision. I think you are definitely on the right track!

 

[Miandrea]

As I special ed. teacher, I work closely will all classes (including splits) and feel that if a child is motivated and an independent worker, she/he will do fine no matter what the placement is.

Don't worry about missing school in December (make sure she reads and find out what math unit her class will be working on (many boards will not provide work for holidays but you can go to scholar's choice and pick up a book that covers the math strand she will be missing).

Every class is like a split because you have kids working at all different levels (usually 2 grade levels below and 2 grade levels above) so teachers are always prepared to accommodate students. If this is a major problem and you child cannot get into a straight grade consider moving boards (Cath. or Public). You know your child best but remember you will always have good classes and bad ones - it is only for 1 year!

Good luck and let us know what happens!

 

[pxlbarrel]

It's been a long time since I was in elementary school but I was in a split 5/6 and then another 5/6 class the following year. (I guess it was like graduating to the higher grade.)

All I remember was that those two years were the best elementary school years that I can remember. I enjoyed being in Grade 5 and learning what some of the Grade 6 students were learning (heh, ie...I was doing the same things that my older brother was doing!!). And when I was in Grade 6, I felt good about being a sort of mentor/help for the younger students. And we had the best teachers too.

Can't say that all felt the same way as I do and teaching styles have probably changed since I was a kid. Just wanted to say that a split class doesn't have to be a bad thing and can even be a great thing.

 

[Debbie]

Miandrea has said it best. All classes are like splits, since we try extremely hard to meet the needs of each child. Generally, a teacher will do a lesson and after sending the kiddos off to do some followup, will either stretch the higher level group, or do some support with the lower level workers.

Language is tested with DRA in our board, and the children will work together by their levels, rather than grades. e.g. I have a 1/2 split, 2 of my grade ones will work with my highest grade twos in language (and THEY are high ), while several of my grade twos will work with my lowest grade ones.

Math, will be co-ordinated as a group, and then extra support/challenge with math centres and lessons.

Science/Social studies is often together, choosing units from both curriculum.

While "you know your child best" at home, academically, I would hope that her teachers have a good inkling on her schooling. Decisions as to who is placed where is actually done as a group, with lots of discussion as to who would do best with which teacher/class and why. (Her last year's teachers will have had some input.)

It sounds as if your child will do well where she is, and, maybe even get some extra priviledges and responsibilities, too. Talk about your concerns to the teacher, but be sure to go in with an open mind. I'm sure that she will be able to allay your fears.

 

[BitsnBearsMom]

Definatly have to agree that ALL classes are splits and quite often you can get different children at even more levels in a strait grade then a split. For example My oldest ds has always been in strait grades and has always been 1 to 2 grades behind everyone else due to his LD. My youngest was put into a 1/2 split this year for grade 1 and we were told it was b/c he is a bright student and needed the enrichment and they felt he was independant enough and a strong enough student to handle the split.

Talk to the teacher about your concerns but I'm sure they wouldn't have put her in a split if she couldn't have handled it.

 

[drag n' fly]

My only concern was not the split but the actual difference in trying to teach 2 curriculums. All classes have three splits. The ones that are excelling the ones that are maintaining and understand the curriculum and ones that are struggling. Unfortunatley we have a real problem here in Calgary with class sizes being too large and the students who are excelling and the students who are falling behind get left behind to work on their own because when class sizes are too large they can only meet in the middle and focus their attention on the kids who are maintaining and understanding the curriculum...those were my daughters teachers words not mine. As the school explained to us each grade higher is only an extension of what they have learned. Even though my daughter is in grade five and the Alberta curriculum states for example they will be studying "provinces" the grade 6 kids are studying "the world". Really all will happen is grade 6 will be easier for her when she does go into it. I just hope she does not become bored the following year as that has happened before.

 

[wee-haggis]

Split classes are nothing more than a cost saving measure by school boards. The end result is (and you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out)that the teacher is teaching 1/2 the time to one class and 1/2 to the other.So,we can only conclude that our kids are not getting the full,undivided attention they deserve (and we pay for). Although I've never experienced a split class myself (too old for that )my kids have went throught it once and we made sure that it didn't happen again. Especially in the lower grades,the kids get confused (understandibly)as to who the teacher is teaching to. Its like one of us sitting in a classroom being taught a subject while another bunch of kids are bellowing out questions and answers on a completly different subject.

 

[bbangel]

Sorry to disagree with you wee haggis, but it is not always a cost saving. In my elementary school there were two classes that were both split 1/2. Both classes were in the same large room. We had several work areas that we moved through in our day, including a small library and a kitchen. Lots of the things we did, we did in large groups, but we often broke into smaller groups for reading and math at the level we were at. Both my parents were teachers in my elementary school and could choose the class I was put in (in later years I had input). They put me in a split whenever they could. There were usually fewer children in the class and as I mentioned earlier, you learn very useful skills (most of which have nothing to do with the curriculum). Whether a split is a good or bad thing for a child is very individual and depends on the type of learner they are. Parents should make that choice in discussion with their teachers and principal.

 

[MamaLema]

No advice to you OP but my son is in a split class this year for the 1st time and I have the same concerns as you. I hope it all works out

 

[F4disneyfan]

My oldest DD is in a split this year and she loves it I wouldn't think of not having her in it. I was in a split 4/5 in grade 4 way back when LOL and it was great fun.

 

[wee-haggis]

Sorry to disagree with you wee haggis, but it is not always a cost saving. In my elementary school there were two classes that were both split 1/2. Both classes were in the same large room. We had several work areas that we moved through in our day, including a small library and a kitchen. Lots of the things we did, we did in large groups, but we often broke into smaller groups for reading and math at the level we were at. Both my parents were teachers in my elementary school and could choose the class I was put in (in later years I had input). They put me in a split whenever they could. There were usually fewer children in the class and as I mentioned earlier, you learn very useful skills (most of which have nothing to do with the curriculum). Whether a split is a good or bad thing for a child is very individual and depends on the type of learner they are. Parents should make that choice in discussion with their teachers and principal.

I have to say bbangel that your example I don't think is typical (ie:several works areas,library.kitchen etc)/.In the case of our kids school.The class size was capacity,there were no break-out rooms or kitchens etc...it was just one big class ..with 2 grades of kids.
If it is not a cost saving measure (remembering this did not exist until a few years back)then what is the reason for School Boards doing it?
Speaking to parents from our kids school and other schools in the Durham region I have to be honest in saying that there is not too many positive comments.

 

[snickerboo]

You should make an appointment to sit down with your dd's teacher and discuss your concerns. We, here, can only speculate based on what we know about splits. She/He can tell you about your own child's split and how she/he plans to handle the variances in maturity and ability.

Split classes are a fact of life. They help cap class sizes. When a class gets too large but not large enough to create another full class, you get split classes. I don't think they require that much extra effort or organization on the part of the teacher. As Debbie pointed out, there are large variances in ability and maturity in most classrooms and any teacher worth his or her salt is ensuring that all those different students are adequately challenged and guided. It's really not that far of a stretch.

 

[bbangel]

I have to say bbangel that your example I don't think is typical (ie:several works areas,library.kitchen etc)/.In the case of our kids school.The class size was capacity,there were no break-out rooms or kitchens etc...it was just one big class ..with 2 grades of kids.
If it is not a cost saving measure (remembering this did not exist until a few years back)then what is the reason for School Boards doing it?
Speaking to parents from our kids school and other schools in the Durham region I have to be honest in saying that there is not too many positive comments.

You ask why they would do it. For many of the grades in my elementary school there were maybe 35 students per grade level, per language of instruction (English and French). Instead of having 35 students per class, they split classes, which definately didn't save them any money.
The example I used of the grade 1/2 classes did not extend beyond those grade levels. From grade 3 onwards you were in a single classroom. Split classes often had less than 25 students (where 30 was the norm), meaning you actually got more attention from the teacher.
As I said, whether it is a good thing or not will depend heavily on the child involved and their learning style. I was just pointing out that for some children (myself included) the experience can be a positive one. Again, it is a discussion for the parents, the teacher and the principal, who are in the best position to make the right choice for each child.
And remember it is not all that long ago that all grades were in one class. My dad went to a one room school for all of his elementary years. I think it served him well.

 

[Married_A_Disney_Nut]

Thank you all for your opinions, ideas and experiences.

Last night I had a long talk with my daughter-DD was in Newfoundland on a business trip so he was no help (this is actually his id - I am usually tink&cinderella) In talking to my dd 8 who is quiete mature we talked about moving to another class, how she felt about etc. Her comment was "I like my teacher" but I can still see her at craft club and folk dancing (extra curricular activities her now teacher is in charge of). Her other thought was that she knows where everything was in the class. She also told the teacher yesterday before coming home "I don't think my mom will let me stay in a split class". So she was agreeable to me speaking with her teacher this morning and then with the principal. She was ok with moving to the class located next door.

I had already called the school yesterday and advised the secretary that I wanted to speak with the principal about the change to the class and upon approaching her teacher this morning she said she was aware of my concern and we discussed in detail the challenges that she is facing with a split grade 2/3 class. She indicated that my dd had already told her she would be away for most of December and felt perhaps it would be best for her to be moved as the straight grade three teacher would have a better opportunity to develop a work plan/booklet for her. She said she had the choice who stayed in her class and had chosen dd because she is very strong academically. She had already spoken to the other teacher and the principal and encouraged me to go and address this issue at the office given I had already written a letter back in May.

I did so and the principal apologized indicating she had checked all the children's files who were being moved but not those that were going to stay (in the soon to be split class) It had been an oversight and of course she would be moving my dd today to the other class. I have to say I was thrilled - no battle!

My dd told me that around 9:30 a.m. the principal came into her classroom and assisted her in getting moved to the next classroom ( one door over) and introducec her to the new teacher. A nice touch that the principal went with her

At the end of the day, she was happy and I was relieved.

Thanks for all your responses - I thought you may appreciate an update. I plan to request no splits for both my dd every year (although my dd4 has no choice but to be in a split JK/SK - they don't offer straight JK or SK at the moment.

Take care,

Denise

 

[mulanrouge]

For the first time, my son is in a split 5/6 class - he is in grade 5. The school sent home a notice to all split class parents explaining the benefits. They took great care in who they chose to go in that class (behaviour and academics). They also got a much smaller class as well. From things I have heard, I like the way they are teaching the class. They have divided the room into 4 kids (2 grade 6 and 2 grade 5) per group. The grade sixers act as a mentor to the grade 5's if they are having problems. Also the teacher gives the grade 5's - grade 6 work to do if they have extra time and have finished their own work. I am not quite sure what the benefits are for the grade 6ers in that class are, but I would imagine it would be satisfaction in helping someone in a younger grade, and maybe some review for things they had problems with in grade 5.

I too was nervous about the split class, but what I have seen so far, I like. I think my son feels very mature as well!! He is the only one out of all his friends that are in the split class - so he gets to hang around with the grade 6ers!!

 

[Married_A_Disney_Nut]

My worry around a split class if the child is in the younger grade is not the academics but rather the social skills and social development ie the difference can be steep. My dd believes in Santa etc. I am not so sure if the grade 4's still do ( I guess I'll find out next year)

 

[pxlbarrel]

How things have changed in 30 odd years. When I was placed in a split case, nobody told my parents. LOL I think they found out when I told them...oh...a few months later.