Open Question to the Moderators

[brentm77]

What is more importing to the cruising industry than the current COVID-19 outbreak, including the science, the politics, and everything surrounding the topic? If we can't discuss these issues openly on threads specifically titled for the subject, why not? The industry is fighting for its very survival due to the complex issues raised by the pandemic. There has never been a more important topic to cruising in all of history. Are we supposed to only discuss our past cruise memories for a year on end? We can't even really make cruising plans right now.

I get that people don't want every thread to be hijacked by talk of the pandemic or the politics surrounding it, but could we find some middle-ground, where threads can be tagged for open pandemic discussion without concern? It's hard to understand where the line is drawn, hindering open discussions. I have really enjoyed hearing opposing points of view. Tagged threads could easily be ignored for those who wish to discuss something different.

 

[tvguy]

It is a slippery slope for sure. Congresswoman Doris Matsui, the author of The Cruise Vessel Security and Safety Act this morning is demanding to know why ships are being allowed to resume at the end of the month given the current covid-19 situation.
It is impossible right now to talk about cruises resuming or not resuming without understanding it is going to be just as much about politics as it is about cruising.

 

[cgolf]

Titles from the front page of another forum. This is a non DCL forum I frequent, cruise critic, for other lines I sail. So yes it can be done. The Vaccine thread is 39 pages long. The mods may have to delete some posts, but it has been an interesting discussion to watch and sometimes post on.

Covid-19 infections onboard - future plans
Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?
White House Cruise Panel Meeting ?
For all who will cruise BEFORE a vaccine: this thread is for you!
No sail order extended to October 31st.
healthy sail panel recommendations are released

Also these topics can't be any worse than the alcohol threads and some of the original pricing threads. I definitely got a few bruises on the pricing threads but always tried to find common ground with most. Alcohol threads, well those were just awful.

 

[aggiedog]

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...he-cdc-extends-no-sail-order-for-cruise-lines
Just the facts, ma'am. "Axios and The New York Times are reporting that CDC Director Robert Redfield wanted to extend the "no sail" order to next February, but was overruled by the White House."

I got in trouble on the community board for bringing up the same issues with vaccines. Influence over the (supposed to be) non-partisan CDC makes "these topics not allowed" discussions about government responses watered down at best.

 

[insureman]

It is a slippery slope for sure. Congresswoman Doris Matsui, the author of The Cruise Vessel Security and Safety Act this morning is demanding to know why ships are being allowed to resume at the end of the month given the current covid-19 situation.
It is impossible right now to talk about cruises resuming or not resuming without understanding it is going to be just as much about politics as it is about cruising.

She's never been a fan of the cruise industry.

 

[AquaDame]

What is more importing to the cruising industry than the current COVID-19 outbreak, including the science, the politics, and everything surrounding the topic? If we can't discuss these issues openly on threads specifically titled for the subject, why not? The industry is fighting for its very survival due to the complex issues raised by the pandemic. There has never been a more important topic to cruising in all of history. Are we supposed to only discuss our past cruise memories for a year on end? We can't even really make cruising plans right now.

I get that people don't want every thread to be hijacked by talk of the pandemic or the politics surrounding it, but could we find some middle-ground, where threads can be tagged for open pandemic discussion without concern? It's hard to understand where the line is drawn, hindering open discussions. I have really enjoyed hearing opposing points of view. Tagged threads could easily be ignored for those who wish to discuss something different.

Basically what I've been doing is allowing it until things either get heated, totally off topic (such as switching the conversation to the president contracting covid), or become a debate about opinions rather than facts. We've -to my knowledge - not closed a single thread without warning, and sometimes two or three times.

We're two volunteers with families and full time jobs, which means we don't always have the time necessary to read up on even a handful of threads mutiple times every day to keep things in order. If I step away for even a couple days I tend to miss something that really should have been addressed. We can do it for awhile, but we're into month seven of this with no end in sight. The most recent thread was about the no sail order being extended to Oct 31st, and that topic had clearly run its course as it devolved into discussing the President contracting the virus and a bunch of legalese about the CDC's jurisdiction or lack thereof. Discussing invididual political entities and their handling of their own sickess isn't really topical, and discussing the past actions of the CDC and what they are allowed to do outside of the extension would be better suited to this thread: https://www.disboards.com/threads/s...g-healthy-sail-panel-recommendations.3813784/

We are not trying to silence anyone as long as its factual, topical, and no one is attacking each other based on their opinions.

 

[KashasMom]

I honestly do NOT want to hear about politics here. It never ends well. But I do want to know what cruise lines plan to do to ensure safe sailing for everyone. I've seen bits and pieces from NCL but haven't seen much else. Why not? Have I missed any big announcements, especially from Disney?

 

[AquaDame]

Titles from the front page of another forum. This is a non DCL forum I frequent, cruise critic, for other lines I sail. So yes it can be done. The Vaccine thread is 39 pages long. The mods may have to delete some posts, but it has been an interesting discussion to watch and sometimes post on.

Covid-19 infections onboard - future plans
Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?
White House Cruise Panel Meeting ?
For all who will cruise BEFORE a vaccine: this thread is for you!
No sail order extended to October 31st.
healthy sail panel recommendations are released

Also these topics can't be any worse than the alcohol threads and some of the original pricing threads. I definitely got a few bruises on the pricing threads but always tried to find common ground with most. Alcohol threads, well those were just awful.

I feel like this is another part of the "problem" this isn't a /cruising/ forum so much as it is a /Disney Cruise Line/ forum. The alcohol threads are about alcohol on DCL, the the pricing of DCL. Does the other forum you frequent have a no politics rule..? Do they specifically say to 'keep it family friendly' and 'not to be argumentative or sarcastic'? We've certainly deleted posts as well and its certainly preferable to locking threads! I also dislike handing out points so perhaps I've been leaning too hard on locking things instead of just letting it go wild and having to do that.

 

[cgolf]

I feel like this is another part of the "problem" this isn't a /cruising/ forum so much as it is a /Disney Cruise Line/ forum. The alcohol threads are about alcohol on DCL, the the pricing of DCL. Does the other forum you frequent have a no politics rule..? Do they specifically say to 'keep it family friendly' and 'not to be argumentative or sarcastic'? We've certainly deleted posts as well and its certainly preferable to locking threads! I also dislike handing out points so perhaps I've been leaning too hard on locking things instead of just letting it go wild and having to do that.

At the top is states no political posts and depending on the mods some things will get deleted.

The topics I posted do pertain to DCL, because the conversation about say vaccines could be part of DCL's reopening strategy or for some DCL families, they won't cruise until there is one. Things like new protocols etc are discussed at length. As you know CC is a bit less family friendly than other boards, but I think Dis members are up to the task. Unfortunately the pandemic can come down to a political issue for some, but as a non practicing scientist, I personally see this as a health issue, not the P word.

If it is true that DCL still reads the forum, I know they used to, they may be very interested to see what it would take to get diehard DCL supporters back sailing on their ships. Cruise lines are probably a little worried that people are not going to come back in the numbers that they are used to.

You all did a great job with the pricing and alcohol threads which had to be tough. I never got slapped with even a warning, so I must not have been too bad My daughter does some moderating on forums, so I know how thankless your job is, so thanks for doing it

 

[T & R]

Looks like the President's Covid status will have a direct result on the Oct 31 CDC no cruise order. White House meeting with the cruise industry today was cancelled. Very disappointing news, this meeting was important for the resumption of cruising.

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/people-opinions/cruise-leaders-white-house-meeting-today-canceled

"in that meeting there will be a discussion and afterwards a decision will need to be made about whether the order needs to be extended," the White House official added

 

[brentm77]

Basically what I've been doing is allowing it until things either get heated, totally off topic (such as switching the conversation to the president contracting covid), or become a debate about opinions rather than facts. We've -to my knowledge - not closed a single thread without warning, and sometimes two or three times.

We're two volunteers with families and full time jobs, which means we don't always have the time necessary to read up on even a handful of threads mutiple times every day to keep things in order. If I step away for even a couple days I tend to miss something that really should have been addressed. We can do it for awhile, but we're into month seven of this with no end in sight. The most recent thread was about the no sail order being extended to Oct 31st, and that topic had clearly run its course as it devolved into discussing the President contracting the virus and a bunch of legalese about the CDC's jurisdiction or lack thereof. Discussing invididual political entities and their handling of their own sickess isn't really topical, and discussing the past actions of the CDC and what they are allowed to do outside of the extension would be better suited to this thread: https://www.disboards.com/threads/s...g-healthy-sail-panel-recommendations.3813784/

We are not trying to silence anyone as long as its factual, topical, and no one is attacking each other based on their opinions.

First, thank you for your time. I appreciate the effort you put in here to make it a more enjoyable place.

That said, I think the standard is too restrictive and subjective.

For example, the CDC's jurisdiction is both relevant to cruising and interesting enough for several of us to engage in a discussion about it. There is obviously a desire of some of us to get into the level of detail we were, including the particular statutes that govern the CDC's jurisdiction over cruising. Essentially, the rule is we can have a superficial discussions about the pandemic affecting cruising, but we can't get too specific about policy and law, even though we enjoy it. Everyone has different tastes .

But, I will abide by the rule better. Please do consider an option for more detailed threads/debates around the pandemic, since it is very relevant to DCL. Again, a tag would allow those who don't enjoy this type of thing to skip the thread.

 

[insureman]

Basically what I've been doing is allowing it until things either get heated, totally off topic (such as switching the conversation to the president contracting covid), or become a debate about opinions rather than facts. We've -to my knowledge - not closed a single thread without warning, and sometimes two or three times.

We're two volunteers with families and full time jobs, which means we don't always have the time necessary to read up on even a handful of threads mutiple times every day to keep things in order. If I step away for even a couple days I tend to miss something that really should have been addressed. We can do it for awhile, but we're into month seven of this with no end in sight. The most recent thread was about the no sail order being extended to Oct 31st, and that topic had clearly run its course as it devolved into discussing the President contracting the virus and a bunch of legalese about the CDC's jurisdiction or lack thereof. Discussing invididual political entities and their handling of their own sickess isn't really topical, and discussing the past actions of the CDC and what they are allowed to do outside of the extension would be better suited to this thread: https://www.disboards.com/threads/s...g-healthy-sail-panel-recommendations.3813784/

We are not trying to silence anyone as long as its factual, topical, and no one is attacking each other based on their opinions.

Thanks for doing this. I know it is a lot work and I just want you to know it is appreciated.

 

[vegs1]

@AquaDame , you do an amazing job so thank you for trying hard to keep threads on topic.

I personally feel that the issue is how off topic these threads become. Take this thread....the question to the Moderator is why can’t we have an open thread where discussion ,whether political or not, can be discussed. It took just a few posts for it to go off topic with the president’s covid results and the effect that has on the CDC. That isn’t what this thread is about and that is where most of the posts go.

 

[tvguy]

@AquaDame , you do an amazing job so thank you for trying hard to keep threads on topic.

I personally feel that the issue is how off topic these threads become. Take this thread....the question to the Moderator is why can’t we have an open thread where discussion ,whether political or not, can be discussed. It took just a few posts for it to go off topic with the president’s covid results and the effect that has on the CDC. That isn’t what this thread is about and that is where most of the posts go.

With all due respect, and I do sincerely mean that, replies are known as threads because they move left and right and all over. The original post is the seed, were it grows ultimately is not controlled by the original post.

 

[Intr3pid]

Basically what I've been doing is allowing it until things either get heated, totally off topic (such as switching the conversation to the president contracting covid), or become a debate about opinions rather than facts. We've -to my knowledge - not closed a single thread without warning, and sometimes two or three times.

We're two volunteers with families and full time jobs, which means we don't always have the time necessary to read up on even a handful of threads mutiple times every day to keep things in order. If I step away for even a couple days I tend to miss something that really should have been addressed. We can do it for awhile, but we're into month seven of this with no end in sight. The most recent thread was about the no sail order being extended to Oct 31st, and that topic had clearly run its course as it devolved into discussing the President contracting the virus and a bunch of legalese about the CDC's jurisdiction or lack thereof. Discussing invididual political entities and their handling of their own sickess isn't really topical, and discussing the past actions of the CDC and what they are allowed to do outside of the extension would be better suited to this thread: https://www.disboards.com/threads/s...g-healthy-sail-panel-recommendations.3813784/

We are not trying to silence anyone as long as its factual, topical, and no one is attacking each other based on their opinions.

You guys go a great job of taking care of these forums and managing your busy family and work lives. Most of us here can relate to the big ask - what it takes to pull that off.

I do have to agree with @brentm77 here about a channel or forum to discuss topics and issues in more detail. For example, fleshing out the "legalese" around CDC's jurisdiction is an excellent way to understand how their no-sail order will affect cruising. Or why they can't control other industries the same way they can cruising. There isn't much else to discuss than but what the industry is unfortunately going through these days. And, unless you cruise with your coworkers, this is the only way for most of us to "commiserate" (hah!) with like-minded people.

I missed out on that conversation today (I was out for most of the day), but, may I suggest a "timeout" feature? If you feel a thread is getting off track or too political, start with a warning and/or some deleted posts - as you do now. But, before a complete lock, do a temporary version. Give everyone a day or so to reflect on what is posted. It will help cool things off and refocus. If the topic is interesting enough, we can resume the conversation soon after.

 

[DCLMP]

I honestly do NOT want to hear about politics here. It never ends well. But I do want to know what cruise lines plan to do to ensure safe sailing for everyone. I've seen bits and pieces from NCL but haven't seen much else. Why not? Have I missed any big announcements, especially from Disney?

I agree with you. Ive never see a corona virus thread on any forum that didn’t end badly. I don’t think it’s a topic than can be discussed without people getting heated. I like to check this forum for news on WDW and DCL. If I want to discuss politics and corona there are so many other places to do that.

 

[T & R]

I personally feel that the issue is how off topic these threads become. Take this thread....the question to the Moderator is why can’t we have an open thread where discussion ,whether political or not, can be discussed. It took just a few posts for it to go off topic with the president’s covid results and the effect that has on the CDC. That isn’t what this thread is about and that is where most of the posts go.

That post in this thread regarding the President's covid status causing the cancellation of one of the most important meetings the cruise line's will ever have had made 3 points.

First the post was in response to the mod's post above that stating that President's covid status was off topic referencing the thread titled no sail order extended to Oct 31. The post in this thread proved it was on topic because the White House meeting to discuss ending the ban with cruise line leaders was cancelled today due to that "off topic" subject. The topic turned out to be entirely on topic which I think ties into the OP's original point.

Second, it proves that with ever evolving situations like covid, on or off topic is fluid, ever changing and entirely subjective like the OP stated and this example proves. What may be off topic to some turns out to be 100% on topic in a matter of hours (Cruise ban until Oct. 31, first meeting with cruise lines and Gov since this thing started, discuss ending the ban, meeting cancelled due to President's Covid).

Third point is actually your point, where does a post like that go? What thread would you deem It Ok for even though it's 100% cruise related and effects DCL via the ban? It's clearly cruising related and related to extending the ban but we get threads locked because apparently we were not ware that we cannot discuss opinion we must discuss facts only. When it comes to the future of cruising there are no facts.

So I appreciate the fact that you put in your first sentence it's how you "personally feel", that's honest but that post in this thread regarding the President's covid status was on topic, relevant to both this thread and the thread regarding the Oct 31 cruise ban and is what this thread is about whether some choose to see that or not. This is the entire point of the thread and you just proved it, what is considered on topic is too subjective especially when you have many who look at one post instead of the larger picture and intent of the thread.

Edit: To the Mod's credit, I do believe they are more than aware that Covid currently controls the future of cruising and they have tried to be as accommodating as they can while remaining within the rules of the forum. To the forum member's credit, even though passions are high on all kinds of topics within this board, I rarely if ever see it devolve into personal attacks, name calling etc. so much respect everybody, thanks

 

[jane01jp]

What is more importing to the cruising industry than the current COVID-19 outbreak, including the science, the politics, and everything surrounding the topic? If we can't discuss these issues openly on threads specifically titled for the subject, why not? The industry is fighting for its very survival due to the complex issues raised by the pandemic. There has never been a more important topic to cruising in all of history. Are we supposed to only discuss our past cruise memories for a year on end? We can't even really make cruising plans right now.

I get that people don't want every thread to be hijacked by talk of the pandemic or the politics surrounding it, but could we find some middle-ground, where threads can be tagged for open pandemic discussion without concern? It's hard to understand where the line is drawn, hindering open discussions. I have really enjoyed hearing opposing points of view. Tagged threads could easily be ignored for those who wish to discuss something different.

I had a comment removed a while back for suggesting that there might never be a vaccine. The reason given was that it was argumentative or off topic. Given that some people (not me) think the only way to return to cruising is to have an effective vaccine, I thought the rationale for removing my comment was bogus.

 

[CamColt]

I feel like this is another part of the "problem" this isn't a /cruising/ forum so much as it is a /Disney Cruise Line/ forum. The alcohol threads are about alcohol on DCL, the the pricing of DCL. Does the other forum you frequent have a no politics rule..? Do they specifically say to 'keep it family friendly' and 'not to be argumentative or sarcastic'? We've certainly deleted posts as well and its certainly preferable to locking threads! I also dislike handing out points so perhaps I've been leaning too hard on locking things instead of just letting it go wild and having to do that.

Well said!

Sometimes locking threads when we see them going off the rails is the best course of action as opposed to letting them go, and then having a mess to deal with (and give out points). I think we have all gotten to the point now where we know when the thread has run it's course and nothing else good will come of it. I totally understand emotions are running high at this time so it is reasonable to expect things to get out of hand. Being proactive can save a lot of headaches for all of us, not just the mods.

If you have any issues with our moderating you can always contact Admin.

 

[tvguy]

I've been mulling this over for the past 24 hours. It really is a Catch-22. We have a rule prohibiting discussion of Politics. We have a group wanting to talk largely about the resumption of cruising. The resumption of cruising is controlled largely by health officials. Those health officials are controlled by Politicians. So a legitimate topic is married at the hip to politics here in 2020.
It is, however interesting to me that so many ports that are so dependent on tourism dollars feel it is still much of a risk of the virus being brought to their ports.